Linux-Advocacy Digest #389, Volume #30 Thu, 23 Nov 00 23:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Another happy Linux user ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Microsoft = Ingsoc? They're clearly using some of the same tactics! ("Erik
Funkenbusch")
Re: Microsoft = Ingsoc? They're clearly using some of the same tactics! ("Erik
Funkenbusch")
Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux ("Keldon Warlord")
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux ("Keldon Warlord")
Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux ("jason")
Re: Microsoft = Ingsoc? They're clearly using some of the same tactics! ("Mike")
Re: Microsoft Encouraging OEMs to "protect" customers from pirate (Jacques Guy)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (.)
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:13:02 -0600
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Grow a clue. uptime.exe works over the network. And it reports
> > accurate
> > > > uptimes, even on NT4.
> > >
> > > Apparently only as long as your clock is accurate...
> >
> > I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. If you mean the system clock,
in
> > regard to the 49.7 day issue, then no. uptime.exe doesn't use that
value.
> > If you mean that if your time of day clock get's whacked, then yes.
>
> Since NT doesn't store a large enough counter, we were informed that
> uptime calculated the actual system uptime by subtracting the boot time
> from the system time. Is this not correct?
That's correct.
> Also, gets never ever needs an apostrophe, unless you're trying to
> contract 'get us'. An apostrophe replaces missing letters, it doesn't go
> before any s you see. (Not a personal attack, but a pet peeve...).
I know. When typing fast, my fingers often have minds of their own and type
common patterns. I frequently do similar typos.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:17:08 -0600
"Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Ok then, SourceSafe is a wrapper around RCS. Last I used it, it looked
> > > more like CVS code. But CVS and RCS are so similar. We dumped
SorceSafe
> > > in favor of Continuus about a year and a half ago. We put CVS on older
> > > systems that won't run Continuus.
> >
> > Try again. RCS is a file based version control system. I think you're
> > confusing SourceSafe and PVCS which *DOES* look a lot like RCS/CVS.
> > SourceSafe uses a hashed database format, where all files are stored in
a
> > central repository with hashed index names that look like this
"AAAAXYZA.A"
> > (that's not a madeup name either). RCS uses single files wich usually
end
> > in ,v, which stores the revisions in a subdirectory of the file that's
being
> > archived. SourceSafe stores files as compressed binary interleaved
diffs
> > with label information and others in a "record" based format. RCS
stores
> > files in sequential text diffs with sparse record information.
> >
> > SourceSafe draws nothing from RCS, does not contain an RCS code (it's
GPL'd,
> > so they'd have to make the source available), and is in no way related
to
> > RCS or CVS in any way other than the fact they both maintain version
> > control.
> >
> > Why do you insist on making these statements that are completely devoid
of
> > fact? You're as bad as Rex... no.. Worse. At least Rex admits when
he's
> > proven wrong.
> I'll try to find a copy of SourcSafe running and look again. PVCS
> is/was, I thought, a PC version of CVS. It's been while since I've used
> it. The file storage backends are different, as are the user interface
> front ends. I'll look to see about the algorithms in the middle. And the
> command handler.
You do that. Compare them side by side. You'll notice they are entirely
different beasts. Actually, I *WISH* SourceSafe were a front-end for CVS.
That would give SourceSafe client/server capabilities (it's file based, like
PVCS and MKS SI). With the VSS visual tools on top of it, it would be quite
killer.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Another happy Linux user
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 01:20:36 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Thu, 23 Nov 2000 00:34:24 +0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >hahahahahahahahaha
> >Windows? Solved it? So why does it take me days to get pnp hardware
> >working under windoze and minutes under Linux?
> >hahahaha
>
> I dunno, maybe you're just not that sharp?
>
> claire
If I'm not that sharp, how come I can use Linux, which you often imply
is a bit hard for stupid people?
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 01:20:53 GMT
On Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:52:07 -0500, Gary Hallock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>it you have never installed wine. wine comes with a base wine.conf
>file that typically only requires a one line change to specify where your
>Windows C drive is located, if even that.
>
>Gary
And what if you don't have Windows installed?
claire
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft = Ingsoc? They're clearly using some of the same tactics!
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:24:01 -0600
"Matthias Warkus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> It was the Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:42:19 -0600...
> ...and Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Virtual terminals are accessed via Windows Terminal Services.
> > Virtual screens by many of the replacement desktop shells, such as
> > litestep.
>
> That's third-party. Doesn't count.
WTS are not third party. The replacement shells use functionality built
into the OS to enable the virtual desktops. The explorer shell doesn't make
use of that functionality.
For instance, these API's exist in the OS:
CloseDesktop - Closes a specified desktop.
CreateDesktop - Creates a new desktop on a specified window station.
EnumDesktops - Enumerates the desktops on a specified window station by
repeatedly calling an application-defined EnumDesktopProc - callback
function.
EnumDesktopWindows - Enumerates the windows on a specified desktop by
repeatedly calling an application-defined EnumWindowsProc - callback
function.
GetThreadDesktop - Returns a handle to the desktop assigned to the calling
thread.
GetUserObjectInformation - Gets information about a window station or
desktop object.
GetUserObjectSecurity - Gets security information for a window station or
desktop object.
OpenDesktop - Opens a handle to an existing desktop.
SetThreadDesktop - Assigns a specified desktop to the calling thread.
SetUserObjectInformation - Sets information about a window station or
desktop object.
SetUserObjectSecurity - Sets security information for a window station or
desktop object.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft = Ingsoc? They're clearly using some of the same tactics!
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:29:17 -0600
"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >Since Win32 was first released. For instance, look at this screenshot of
> >Litestep, a replacement shell for Explorer
> >http://www.litestep.net/ssview.php3?filename=qnxrtp.jpg
> >
> >In the lower right corner you see a 3x3 grid, each of wich is a virtual
> >screen.
> >
> >Win32 has built in API's for handling multiple screens and desktops,
> >multiple monitors, multiple terminals (see windows terminal services).
>
> I've used Afterstep, and it does handle multiple virtual screens.
>
> Explorer does not provide multiple virtual screens.
No, Explorer does not expose multiple desktop functionality. Microsoft
often provides core funtionality and leaves it to third parties to utilize
it. For instance, MS offers an API to allow for file defragmenting, yet
doesn't build a defragmenter themselves in Windows 2000 (the on in Win2k is
licensed from Diskkeeper). MS had Quota management API's since NT 3.1, but
didn't implement their own Quota management tools till Win2k (there were
third party ones for years).
The same is true of virtual desktops.
> I've certainly never had a virtual console available on Win32,
> although I imagine that Erik may claim a dos instance running
> in full-screen mode (alt-enter?) counts...
I hadn't thought of that, but technically they are, especially since you can
have different users logged into different consoles simply by running the
cmd.exe as a specific user.
But I was referring to Windows Terminal Services, which is part of the
Windows 2000 server family. Also, in the next version of Windows due out
next year, WTS will allow multiple consoles for remote management even in
the desktop version.
------------------------------
From: "Keldon Warlord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.linux,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 18:34:08 -0800
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> spineboy wrote:
> >
> > Keldon Warlord wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > do they have something along the lines of winamp for Linux? :-)
> > >
> > > (hey, I'm just asking...)
> >
> > XMMS - very nice, many skins (can even use WinAmp skins), plugins
> > www.xmms.org
>
> Fuck Skins!
>
> Skins are for losers who can't configure anything else.
>
what an odd...yet still retarded, way to flame...
>
> >
> > or there are a few others Freeamp, kmedia
> >
> > you should look in this web site - it has many applications nicely
> > organized
> > www.tucows.com and click on Linux and find a mirror close to you
>
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> ICQ # 3056642
>
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:35:27 -0600
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. If you mean the system
clock, in
> > > regard to the 49.7 day issue, then no. uptime.exe doesn't use that
value.
> > > If you mean that if your time of day clock get's whacked, then yes.
> >
> > Since NT doesn't store a large enough counter, we were informed that
> > uptime calculated the actual system uptime by subtracting the boot time
> > from the system time. Is this not correct?
>
> Erik says (from another posting):
>
> It works on all periods and does not ever roll over to 0. The reason is
> that it works by reading the event log for a startup message then
> subtracts
> the time entry of that startup message from the current time of day.
>
> So I was correct... if your system clock is wrong, your uptime is a
> bald-faced lie. Well, at least it's a way for NT to hit the top of the
> charts in uptime... "Scotty, set clocks to 2019!"
No, since the uptime returned by whatever method used by netcraft doesn't
use uptime.exe.
------------------------------
From: "Keldon Warlord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.linux,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 18:36:40 -0800
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Keldon Warlord wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Keldon Warlord wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Uncle Fester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now if it only had some decent multimedia programs to run like
> > > > > > SoundForge or Cooledit or Cubase or Cakewalk or DVD or some
Direct-X
> > > > > > plugins then we would be in business.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Linux would be worth it just to finally break free of DirectX!
> > > > > You're right though, we're missing a lot of programs in LinuxLand.
> > > > > Let's see... Happy99, Melissa, Navidad...
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > are all Linux users this dense or just you? he said DVD and other
> > multimedia
> > > > programs....or is it insane jealousy that the MPAA won't give away
those
> > DVD
> > > > source codes for FREE like the other dozen brainwashed companies
that
> > have?
> > > >
> > >
> > > So...what you're saying is...being held hostage to the likes of
> > > Sony and Time-Warner is a good thing?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > no...what I'm saying is that this is the only DVD player that I
have...and I
> > sure as hell don't want to mess it up!
> >
>
> And how is Linux going to overwrite the firmware ROMS
> in your DVD player exactly?
>
you tell me. afterall, Linux is the hellspawn OS of SATAN, isn't it?
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> ICQ # 3056642
>
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "jason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.linux,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 02:31:08 GMT
at least snip please...
--
jason
http://mindcritic.cjb.net
"Keldon Warlord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
<big ass snip>
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft = Ingsoc? They're clearly using some of the same tactics!
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 02:43:32 GMT
"Kenny Pearce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> To all Linux users or Microsoft advocates who have read George Orwell's
1984 and (especially) to "Claire":
>
> [huh?]
>
> PS- This post is intended as an HHOS. The message I believe, but don't
take every detail seriously.
> Anyone who does has paranoid delusions far worse than mine.
Unlikely, Kenny. Unlikely.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 03:01:02 +0000
From: Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft Encouraging OEMs to "protect" customers from pirate
Bennetts family wrote:
> http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/nakedPC_old.htm
> http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/nakedPC.htm
> In short, they are trying to get OEMs not to sell PCs without an OS because
> they could unwittingly cause their customers to "somehow" come across
> pirated OSen. Pretty 1984-esque.
Especially this bit:
"Otherwise, who knows what you're leaving your customers-and yourself-open to?"
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Reading between the lines: there has been an increase in how often
PCs get sold without M$ preinstalled. In this December's Australian
Personal Computer there is a reader's letter: "Recently, I purchased
a new PC: a Pentium III 733... Initially I had all sorts of problems
with it. Eventually these were traced to hardware problems and were
rectified by the dealer, but in the meantime I installed Windows
98 SE to eliminate problems such as buggy drivers..."
Eh? Come again? Yes: "Meanwhile I had another PC and a Windows Me
disk doing nothing." The Windows Me disk that came with his PIII-733!
So he installs Win ME on that other PC, but his HP ScanJet 4100C won't
install, the HP Web site says he has to buy a new CD (still unreleased)
for his scanner to work. He can't get Eudora 3.06 to work either.
He tries Eudora 5. No joy. Eventually, he reformatted the hard disk,
and reverted to Windows 98.
And then, would you believe, he has the bloody cheek to complain: "I paid
something like $160 for this product, and was rather annoyed when
it didn't work."
Some people are born whingers.... Think of the hard time he must have
given the poor dealer! If there are many more like him, some lily-livered
dealers might think twice about preinstalling M$ on their PCs.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 03:39:23 GMT
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >Well some of us are capable of coaxing extended uptimes out of our
> > >servers. Unix gurus would have us believe that it's rocket science,
> > >but really it's not that hard
> >
> > No, it's very very easy using Linux. Very easy indeed. Rocket
> > science is a little harder, of course.
> >
> > Want good uptime - try Debian GNU/Linux - it's very very stable.
>
> Then perhaps you can explain why Debian's website has only a 35 day average
> uptime.
>
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=uptime&site=www.debian.org
Try these:
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=&site=www.debian.com (29 days)
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=&site=www.google.com (53 days)
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=uptime&site=www.sun.com (25 days)
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=&site=www.att.com (54 days)
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=&site=www.aol.com (20 days
for IRIX, but they switched to Solaris and the latest is 321 days)
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=&site=www.cornell.edu (102 days)
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=&site=www.redhat.com (3 days!)
Here's some more:
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=&site=www.microsoft.com (10 days)
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=&site=www.msn.com (21 days)
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=&site=www.dell.com (13 days)
Note that RedHat's latest uptime was less than 3 days, though the maximum
was 174.
One other thing to glean from these URLs is that it's not just the OS
that is being measured. It is the Web server software, too.
Another thing to look at is the maximums, which might be more appropriate.
Too tired right now! Can't gather data from NT4, as you've all seen.
One other thing to look at is a longer moving average.
Here's another one, local to where I live, our local pro soccer club:
http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=&site=www.charlestonbattery.com
Because of my query, it is now in the list, but it'll be awhile before
they have enough data to present statistics on that site. Other sites not
having enough info yet:
www.lucent.com
What does all this mean? HellifIknow. I just go here:
http://uptime.netcraft.com/today/top.avg.html
and note that, in these top 50 sites, no Windows operating system
appears. It's all Solaris, Linux, IRIX, or one of the BSDs.
On the other hand, most of these top 50 sites don't look like they'd
be high-traffic sites, either.
Again, hellifiknow.
Chris
--
[ ] Encrypt Microsoft.
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 16:46:54 +1300
> > It works on all periods and does not ever roll over to 0. The reason is
> > that it works by reading the event log for a startup message then
> > subtracts
> > the time entry of that startup message from the current time of day.
> >
> > So I was correct... if your system clock is wrong, your uptime is a
> > bald-faced lie. Well, at least it's a way for NT to hit the top of the
> > charts in uptime... "Scotty, set clocks to 2019!"
>
> No, since the uptime returned by whatever method used by netcraft doesn't
> use uptime.exe.
I wasn't referring specifically to Netcraft... I believe I will never
ever see NT at the top of their charts.
But it does allow for some very easily faked uptime measurements.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 03:49:05 GMT
In article <3a1d0f5f.274076763@news>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 23:34:27 -0500, Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> <snip nonsense>
>
> Mate, it has nothing to do with being open-minded or not. It`s all
> about the applications - nothing more, nothing less.
Right - and KDE has KOffice as an alternative to MS Word. If you don't
bitch, you'll never get what you want. Besides, I'm talking about Microsoft,
not IBM. Where did I mention IBM in my above discussion?
> I have to use OS2 some of the time here, because our main business
> tool is an IBM app. Do I bitch about it? Yes. Do I blame IBM? No.
Why not? That's what this forum is for. Again, I'm not talking about IBM;
I'm talking about MS vs. unix.
> Get a life, because there is no chance of you ever getting a job.
Really? That's nice. I'm not Mr. Open Minded like you, I don't love every
single operating system. I intend to make my life as Microsoft free as I
possibly can. My wish is that there would be a lot less Microsoft in the
world, because Linux can do everything Windows can do, and can do it better
and more cheaply! For example, KDE and GNOME are prime examples that you can
make unix as user-friendly as Windows, and can provide the same kind of
applications on a more stable platform.
This forum is for advocating Linux, and that's exactly what I'm doing: I'm
wishing for a lot less MS! Sure, I'm willing to do a little Windows
programming on the job. But, don't expect me to run the crap (that's right,
it's crap) on my machine at home.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
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