Linux-Advocacy Digest #426, Volume #27 Sun, 2 Jul 00 12:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not ready.)
("Gonzo")
Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! ! (Chris Shepherd)
Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! ! (Chris Shepherd)
Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! ! (Chris Shepherd)
Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! ! (Cihl)
Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! ! (Chris Shepherd)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (sandrews)
Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm (Cihl)
Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! ! (Chris Shepherd)
Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner? (The Ghost In The
Machine)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Chris Shepherd)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Chris Shepherd)
Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm (Gary
Hallock)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Fan of General Wojciech Jaruzelski? was Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose
Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (MK)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gonzo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not
ready.)
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 09:45:27 -0500
Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> Cihl wrote:
> >
> > Laura Goodwin wrote:
> >
> > [snipped loads of stuff about ideal cheap Linux box]
> >
> > Lemme take a crack at this one.
> >
> > Motherboard:
> > Anything with an Intel-chipset is perfect. Others work well, too, but
> > i'd test it first, like VIA-chipsets for example.
>
>
> Via works well for me
>
> >
> > CPU:
> > Anything will do. For price, i'd choose a Celeron.
>
> K6's are typically 50% less for the same clock speed AND have more
> on-chip cache, which can have even more influence on performance
> than clock speed.
All the better to get a Duron or K7 ;o)
> > Memory:
> > Something in the 64 to 128 MB range will do nicely.
> >
> > Video:
> > There are many, many card that work well in Linux. Some brands support
> > Linux better than others. Seek these out, like ATI/3DFX/nVidia and
> > such.
> >
> > Harddisk:
> > No significant problems. The minimum you can buy today is 10 Gigs, and
> > that'll do nicely. If it's UDMA-66, test it first. Full UDMA-66
> > support is in kernel 2.4. (Remember that no other OS's have
> > UDMA66-support out of the box either. The new Linux will also have
> > UDMA-100 support)
> >
> > CD-ROM:
> > The cheapest IDE-cdrom will do.
> >
> > Network?
> > Cheapest NE-2000 compatible card is good enough. PCI preferably,
> > IsaPnP sucks, IMHO.
>
> ISA bus is inadequate for any ethernet connection.
I Disagree with that. I have a three PC network with one PCI and two ISAs
and using a cheaper BNC cable connection withought having to buy an
expensive HUB and all our netgames work great. I do agree that a PCI card
would be slightly faster but one can get a set of used ISA cards for around
$5 a pop nowdays FWIW.
> > Modem?
> > Watch out for this one, unless you get them an external one. Many
> > internal PCI-modems are brainless ones. (Windows only, Resource hog,
> > avoid!)
>
> I believe that all of the ISA modems are fully functional
> (internal brains and dsps).
Nope, Some ISA modems are also Winmodems although they are now rare to
find. Can't loose with an internal ISA SupraExpress V90 hardware modem in
Linux or Windows though. Smartlink makes a cheaper version of an ISA
hardware modem also.
> > Mouse:
> > Cheapest you can find. It's gotta be a cheap computer, no need to lift
> > the price over a mouse. :-) PS/2, USB, doesn't matter, it all works.
> >
> > Printer:
> > Watch out for Winprinters, like HP720C and such. Other than that,
> > almost all Epson and HP printers work well. (Watch out for Lexmark.
> > They're cheap, but have very expensive cartridges. They break down
> > easily as well)
>
> Avoid modern Canons as well.
>
> from an engineering standpoint, I like Canon's designs..but,
> they are very cranky with Linux.
>
>
> >
> > Scanner:
> > All SCSI-devices will do, but they're more expensive. Wait for kernel
> > 2.4 and pick a USB-scanner. Most Parport-scanners have a proprietary
> > protocol which only works with Windows. (Microsoft is in court for
> > things like this, isn't it?)
> >
> > Did i leave anything out?
> >
> > --
> > ¨I live!¨
> > ¨I hunger!¨
> > ¨Run, coward!¨
> > -- The Sinistar
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> H: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
>
> C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
> sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
> that she doesn't like.
>
> D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
>
> E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (D) above.
>
> F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
> response until their behavior improves.
>
> G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: Chris Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! !
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 10:41:54 -0400
> Too many things to do just to use the computer productively. How to simply
> install software? Where did the software go? What icon? How to put icon on
Depends on how you're installing it.
> KDE desktop? How to put icon on K menu? Not enough disk space to install?
In GNOME (What I use) you simply right click, and select "add new
launcher" from the little os/2-like menu that comes down.
I don't know about KDE's menu, but in GNOME there's an actual menu
editor, just like in Win98.
Never had the disk space problem.
> I've got 18 Gigs! Star Office will be installed without Java support? Its
> year 2000, I just installed this OS and it did not include Java? Can't print
Don't know anything about StarOffice. :P
> to my USB printers? Have to install the same program for every user?
No, you shouldn't have to install the same program for every user.
That's what the /usr/share directory is for.
--
Chris Shepherd
Vice President, GDPS Computers
Known in the SCA as William Silverlake
When the sky is falling, the best place to be is underground.
------------------------------
From: Chris Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! !
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 10:43:03 -0400
> It was my post. I started my professional practice about ten years ago. I've
> had some success. I'm a wealthy man. Ten years later, about twenty computers
> later, I've had it!! I drive my cars, I talk on my telephones, I watch my 10
> or twelve TVs, record each TVs with a VCR( each of them), I use my 6 or 7
> computers. I have Maytags topline washer and dryer. Sleek, jet black frig.
> and freezer from Sears(Sears man comes installs, etc. just works ..) All of
> this works different than Linux!! Everything else works for me. Linux makes
> me work. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It scares me that you've never had to work in your life before.
--
Chris Shepherd
Vice President, GDPS Computers
Known in the SCA as William Silverlake
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- Arthur C. Clarke
------------------------------
From: Chris Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! !
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 10:46:16 -0400
> Don't respond with profanity.
BS is not profanity. BullShit is profanity.
> I'm a real person who has owned and used computers since 1986!! Imagine if I
> made the same statements about a school teacher or automobile safety.
Oooh. And how many of those years did you spend learning about them?
Owning and using them, and learning about them (how the os works, etc)
are not the same thing.
> Everyone would be shouting for immediate improvement. The status quo would
> not be available for download or purchase. They would not be able to just
> say try this or that. They would have to make our computers work easier and
> better. That is what I was hoping for when I looked into Linux. I truly
> would have to say that in the estimation of this reasonable adult. Windows98
> does the "job" much better than Linux. Linux is beside the point.
It all depends on what 'job' you are assigning it I suppose.
> I will still keep Linux because I enjoy tinkering with computers.
--
Chris Shepherd
Vice President, GDPS Computers
Known in the SCA as William Silverlake
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- Arthur C. Clarke
------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! !
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 14:45:57 GMT
Chris Shepherd wrote:
> =
> > Too many things to do just to use the computer productively. How to s=
imply
> > install software? Where did the software go? What icon? How to put ic=
on on
> =
> Depends on how you're installing it.
> =
> > KDE desktop? How to put icon on K menu? Not enough disk space to inst=
all?
> =
> In GNOME (What I use) you simply right click, and select "add new
> launcher" from the little os/2-like menu that comes down.
> I don't know about KDE's menu, but in GNOME there's an actual menu
> editor, just like in Win98.
> Never had the disk space problem.
In the "old" KDE 1.2.2 you also use the right mouse button, and select
something out of the 'new' menu. Actually, it looks a lot like
Windows.
=
> > I've got 18 Gigs! Star Office will be installed without Java support?=
Its
> > year 2000, I just installed this OS and it did not include Java? Can'=
t print
> =
> Don't know anything about StarOffice. :P
> =
> > to my USB printers? Have to install the same program for every user?
> =
> No, you shouldn't have to install the same program for every user.
> That's what the /usr/share directory is for.
> =
> --
> Chris Shepherd
> Vice President, GDPS Computers
> Known in the SCA as William Silverlake
> =
> When the sky is falling, the best place to be is underground.
-- =
=A8I live!=A8
=A8I hunger!=A8
=A8Run, coward!=A8
-- The Sinistar
------------------------------
From: Chris Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! !
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 10:48:08 -0400
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
> leg log wrote:
> >
> > Don't respond with profanity.
> > I'm a real person who has owned and used computers since 1986!! Imagine if I
>
> He's written 17,734 different versions of "hello world" so far.
Even a couple that _require_ OpenGL! :)
--
Chris Shepherd
Vice President, GDPS Computers
Known in the SCA as William Silverlake
TAGLINE ERROR! Report to tech support.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 10:46:02 -0400
From: sandrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aaron Kulkis) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >What happens when LoseDOS suddenly has yet anoter epileptic seizure
> >and BSOD's, then, after it comes up, it lost the driver for your
> >printer, and you can't find the install disk?
>
> And Linux doesn't lose file system changes after a crash does it?
Nope not on my reiser journalling file system.
>
> >I'll tell you what... you're COMPLETELY up a creek.
>
> And if Linux blows away the config file, I guess you just type it in from
> memory.
Never had it happen, even whne running redhat 4.2
>
> >Conversely under Unix, you just edit the config file, and resume
> >as normal.
>
> If you can remember the settings. Oh yes, you could go and read the HOWTO's
> etc. If you can make sense of them.
How about extracting the config file from the package and
then editing it for your setup?
>
> Pete
Pete the Lamer.
------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 14:50:10 GMT
Gonzo wrote:
> =
> Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > AMD is ok. Watch out for the K6-3D, though. Some stores have taken it=
> > out, because it would consistently slow down after about half an hour=
=2E
> =
> Huh? Where did you get that?
I don't remember exactly where i read that. It was in some computer
magazine several months ago. The problem mentioned something about
temperature in insufficiently cooled rooms. It seems like normal room
temperature was already too hot for the K6-3D.
-- =
=A8I live!=A8
=A8I hunger!=A8
=A8Run, coward!=A8
-- The Sinistar
------------------------------
From: Chris Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! !
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 10:52:57 -0400
leg log the troll wrote:
>
> Linux as it stand now is STUPID!!!!!
*Pulls out stamp. Dips in ink. Stamps leg log's forehead.*
There, he's a troll. The ink on his forehead says it. :)
--
Chris Shepherd
Vice President, GDPS Computers
Known in the SCA as William Silverlake
"'Oh, it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it'" - Tim
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner?
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 15:04:29 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Chris Shepherd
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote on Sun, 02 Jul 2000 10:32:03 -0400
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> >If I didn't think that Linux was the best I
>> >wouldn't use it, I just haven't come accross anything better.
>>
>> Come across this: Windows 2000. It blo's LIE-nux away It blo's
>> LIE-nux away It blo's LIE-nux away
>
>Yep, just hope you've updated your version or don't have over a 4 gig
>drive (who doesn't nowadays?), and don't EVER run scandisk, otherwise
>it'll blow your hard drive away, blow your hard drive away, blow your
>hard drive away.
Actually, I've yet to see anything that'll toast a hard drive.
Now the data thereon is a different matter. :-)
(I suppose some hacker could or has come out with a tool that
makes the head seek seek seek until the stepper motor wears out
or melts or blows up or something, just to prove me wrong. :-) )
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: Chris Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 11:10:09 -0400
> It supports the hardwere only after you force it to. In Windo's it just works. You
>half to >fight with LIE-nux to make it do annything.
If only this were true. Do you know how long it took me to get windows
to accept that my ancient 4mb pci S3 ViRGE 325 actually did do up to
1024*768? Seven and a half months, four reinstalls, two of those
complete formats of the windows partition (who runs windows and is
stupid enough to put their data on the same partition?), numerous calls
to S3, fifteen driver downloads, etc., etc.. One of those was because
someone from MS was telling me that my directx crashes were because I
didn't have 7.0a. Unfortunately, 7.0a makes kernel changes to windows,
and it was continually crashing on boot. So, that was one of the FFRs I
had to do. The others were similar cases but because of the video
drivers provided by Microshaft.
In linux, I just entered in card number 326 (IIRC) and it worked. I
reset my preferences to be at 1024*768 default, and edited the x file
(in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin IIRC) and set it to run startx -- -bpp 16
instead of just startx, and it worked beautifully.
With some combinations Linux is way better.
--
Chris Shepherd
Vice President, GDPS Computers
Known in the SCA as William Silverlake
When the sky is falling, the best place to be is underground.
------------------------------
From: Chris Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 11:12:00 -0400
> >What happens when LoseDOS suddenly has yet anoter epileptic seizure
> >and BSOD's, then, after it comes up, it lost the driver for your
> >printer, and you can't find the install disk?
>
> And Linux doesn't lose file system changes after a crash does it?
Not that I've seen.
> >I'll tell you what... you're COMPLETELY up a creek.
>
> And if Linux blows away the config file, I guess you just type it in from
> memory.
I've never heard of linux blowing away a config file. It doesn't have
fits like Windows does you know. It behaves.
> >Conversely under Unix, you just edit the config file, and resume
> >as normal.
>
> If you can remember the settings. Oh yes, you could go and read the HOWTO's
> etc. If you can make sense of them.
Have you ever backed ANYTHING up in your life?
--
Chris Shepherd
Vice President, GDPS Computers
Known in the SCA as William Silverlake
"Precious, precious, precious. My Precious. O My precious." - Gollum
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 11:20:35 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: Hardware: ideal budget Linux box? (Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm
Gonzo wrote:
>
>
> RH ran ok on mine too but Mandrake 7.1 is faster on my system. Especially
> with a partitionless installation. I couldn't believe the difference. It's
> either the UDMA66 support or perhaps the newer Xfree version I guess.
Except for the kernel, I believe Redhat is still all compiled for the 386. I
think Mandrake is all compiled for the 686. That could be one cause of the
speed difference. Of course if you are using XFree86 4 then that would also
help a lot.
Gary
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 11:52:04 -0400
Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>Well, if you believe technical documentation from MSDN is
>"MS propaganda", there's no hope for you, really. It's a
>hermetically sealed worldview; you reject sources of
>information because they come from The Enemy.
>I've seen it many times before from many different
>people on many topics. I know I can't break through
>it with mere facts.
Why are you trolling here? Do you work for M$?
===========================================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
===========================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Fan of General Wojciech Jaruzelski? was Re: Anti-Human Libertarians
Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 16:10:32 GMT
On 26 Jun 2000 21:27:17 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) wrote:
>>>>I guess you are hypocrite defending modern guilds attempting to screw customers
>>>>and competing businesses and workers.
> Grow up. You're just envious because you're not a member of one.
Repeating "grow up" phrase like you do is hallmark of childishness.
>>> I'm sure that you appreciate what General Wojciech Jaruzelski had
>>>done with that infamous labor union Solidarity.
>
>>I'm sure that this would actually be you defending that, bc you are
>>pathological, corrupt liar pretending things are different than in
>>reality -- i.e. that Solidarity was labor union like typical Western labor
>>unions, while in reality it was more like immense political movement.
>...
Here we see snipping argumentation by pathological liar.
> Which acted like a l-a-b-o-r u-n-i-o-n.
Which did NOT act like labor union.
You snip argumentation like and restate original claim like Goebbels, I repost
the argumentation:
---
I'm sure that this would actually be you defending that, bc you are
pathological, corrupt liar pretending things are different than in
reality -- i.e. that Solidarity was labor union like typical Western labor
unions, while in reality it was more like immense political movement. AFAIK,
labor unions in the West rarely demand freedom of speech like freedom
of creation of media uncontrolled by govt and elimination of censorship as well
as allowing voluntarily formed political parties into elections and other stuff
like that.
Petrich's claims contain similar proportion of truth to the Goebbels' claims.
Petrich even practices lying in precisely the same manner -- Petrich
was explained the Solidarity in some details many times, but Petrich doesn't
respond, snips the explanation and just restates original claim.
EXACTLY like Goebbels.
FYI: Solidarity at the time was great movement working for freedom. It
largely fulfilled its historical role, but times and situation have changed,
and now they are just one more political party. I truly hate to say that, but
now in some respects they are worse than contemporary post-communist
party, and AWS (the political party based on main movments and parties
composing Solidarity in the past) is probably going to lose next elections. I'd
prefer them to be different and I hope they change, but for now it doesn't look
like there's much chance for it. They did not adapt and reform to the new
situation, or if they did change, they changed for worse. I guess that's the
regular development of all revolutionary-turned-govt movements, but still there
is no more Solidarity like it was back then. I don't despair over that,
however, this is normal state of things; once certain phase of historical
development is over, it's over and there's no point in longing for it to come
back. I guess we became country closer to normal (though I often have serious
doubts about that seeing the politics).
---
MK
---
Socialism is result of thinking with pleasure organ instead of
thinking with a brain.
------------------------------
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