Linux-Advocacy Digest #584, Volume #27 Tue, 11 Jul 00 03:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why use Linux? (Paul E. Larson)
Re: Why use Linux? (Paul E. Larson)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? ("Drestin Black")
Re: I am trying to do an unbiased comparison of operating systems (Jeff Silverman)
Re: I am trying to do an unbiased comparison of operating systems (Jeff Silverman)
Re: To Pete Goodwin: How Linux saved my lunch today! (Jacques Guy)
Re: I had a reality check today :( (Jacques Guy)
Re: Windows (Slava Pestov)
linux: 'insmod sr_mod': no module by that name found (Carlos Villegas)
Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
linux:Unresolved symbol using 'insmod sg' (Carlos Villegas)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? (abraxas)
Re: Linux lags behind Windows (Slava Pestov)
Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it (abraxas)
Re: Vote for the best WinTroll - COLA Oscars (Slava Pestov)
Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it (abraxas)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul E. Larson)
Subject: Re: Why use Linux?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 05:46:40 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>"Paul E. Larson" wrote:
>>
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >"Paul E. Larson" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >> >This is why:
>> >> >
>> >> >=== script output ===
>> >> >
>> >> >Mon Jul 10 13:42:15 SAST 2000
>> >> > 1:42pm up 28 days, 1:23, 2 users, load average: 0.03, 0.14, 0.29
>> >> >USER LINE LOGIN-TIME FROM
>> >> >nicc tty2 Jun 12 14:13
>> >> >nicc :0 Jul 5 15:07
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> To bad you and many others filto realize that uptime counts are virtually
>> >> meaningless! The main machine at my place of employment has a MAXIMUM up
> time
>> >> of 7 days. Every 7 days we IPL the machine regardless of anything. What
> does
>> >> that fact tell you?
>> >
>> >So, basically, what you are saying is that every minute of downtime
>> >is PLANNED, DELIBERATE downtime.
>>
>> Nope, what I am saying is that uptime bragging is meaningless and worthless
>> unless taken in context.
>
>And bragging that a Nuclear Sub can run submerged for MONTHS is
>meaningless and worthless.
>
At least we agree on something!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul E. Larson)
Subject: Re: Why use Linux?
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 05:56:10 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>My argument is that with a Linux (Unix) system, both as server and
> workstations,
>you can achieve very high uptimes, which means greater productivity. That is
No, uptimes in and of themselves prove absolutely nothing.
>what it's all about - in the end...
>
What is the context of the uptime?
>Now, is my argument still meaningless?
>
No argument is meaningless!
Paul
--
"Mr. Rusk you not wearing your tie."
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: 11 Jul 2000 01:00:23 -0500
Rob:
I didn't read the code because I have a few questions before I even begin to
think about how to do this in windows.
Help me understand something. You've got your linux box here, but it's not
on a always-on connection. You didn't say so but are we to assume that it
dials up your ISP every so often and downloads your e-mail? And then this
script looks for e-mail from you and reads a coded line to determine when
you'd like your PPP to go up/down?
A quick thought, I'd have Outlook set to check my e-mail every x hours,
disconnecting after retrieval. A message rule would look for e-mail from
adress xxx, containing string zzz in the body and perhaps also subject equal
to yyy. The rule would write the text of the message body to a file. A VBS
script that was running would look for this file, open and parse the start
and end times and then connect to the ISP at the appropriate time and wait
until the final time and disconnect. While connected, I could telnet or use
terminal services, or use a browser to remotelyanywhere into the machine or
maybe access my own Imail server and pull the messages from the lightweight
webmail server?
But, actually, I'd probably just telnet to my provider and run mail on the
shell account?
Then again, thinking of your scenario... why do all this work? You want to
ssh into your box, but can't leave the box connected all the time. But it
has to go on-line every so often to get mail to figure out when to get
connected. But, you know the schedule. Why not just have the box connect
every hour for 15 minutes. This way, no matter where you are, you only have
to wait at maximum 45 minutes before the box becomes available. Say your box
dials up every hour to check mail, that would be a maximum of an hour before
your e-mail could signal the box to turn PPP on for you... but if it checks
every half an hour to cut down the interval, hell, at that interval, just
leave it on! have a scipt monitor the connection and autorestore it if it
drops.
I think I now fail to see why you bothered writing this script at all? What
did I miss?
(oh, any I LOVE how you couldn't resist but add: "So even if a Windows
solution would be possible technically, it still would not be an option..."
Nice how you just throw out any windows solution (which is what you are
asking for in the first place) without giving a viable reason? Why should
9600 baud make a windows solution necessarily unviable but not for linux?
doesn't make sense)
p.s., thanks for reminding me why I hate perl - YUCK!
"Rob S. Wolfram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Here's the case. I have a dialup account with bSMTP (cable is no option,
> I'm anxiously awaiting DSL in my town). I will be on a vacation[1] RSN
> and I still want to be able to read my mail during my absence. So what I
> did was add couple of rules to my .procmailrc that will pipe my mail
> through a perl script. This script will verify that the mail has been
> PGP-signed by me, and if so it will parse the times that the PPP
> connection should be brought up and down so I can ssh into the system.
> Everything happens on Linux, of course.
>
> I am not a perl guru by far, but I could write it up in an evening
> (including testing!). My question is, is this possible in Windows and if
> so, how would it be accomplished (with the emphasis on security).
>
> FYI I included the procmail rules and the actual script here.
>
> [1] The vacation will be in Suriname, S.A., and the connection to the
> Net feels like 9600 baud. So even if a Windows solution would be
> possible technically, it still would not be an option...
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
> ----- begin procmail rules -----
> :0 HcbW:$MAILDIR/.ppp.lk
> * ^X-Execute: PPP
> * !^X-Loop: pppfilter
> | /home/rsw/bin/verif.pl
>
> :0 Afe:$MAILDIR/.ppp.lk
> | formail -a "X-Loop: pppfilter"
>
> :0
> * ^X-Execute: PPP
> * !^X-Loop: pppfilter
> testbox
> ----- end procmail rules -----
>
> ----- begin perl script -----
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> # script to verify a PGP clearsigned message and execute
> # PPP-up and PPP-down commands on the times specified in the
> # message
> #
> # DOB: Thu Jul 6 00:49:47 CEST 2000 - RW
> # Dependencies: GnuPG and Timemodules (CPAN)
>
> use GnuPG qw( :algo );
> use IO::File;
> use Time::ParseDate;
>
> # command to be executed first
> $UpCmd="/usr/bin/pon";
> # command to be executed later
> $DownCmd="/home/rsw/bin/cond_poff";
> $gpg = new GnuPG();
> @rawin=<STDIN>; # msg body will be piped by procmail
>
> $FH=IO::File->new_tmpfile or die "Tempfile failed\n";
> # Module GnuPG only works with a file in verify mode :-(
> $FH->autoflush(1);
> foreach ( @rawin ) {
> chomp $_;
> print $FH ("$_\n");
> }
> seek($FH,0,0);
>
> $sign=$gpg->verify(signature=>$FH);
> # Supposes a clearsigned text
> # Script barfs if verify fails
>
> close(FH);
>
> if (! $sign->{keyid} eq "DB54EDD1D61A655D") {
> print STDERR "Not Signed by me!\n";
> exit -1;
> }
>
> $up=0;
> $down=0;
> # Parse the two times and convert to unix time_t format
> foreach (@rawin) {
> if (/^\s*PPP (Up|Down): (.*)/) {
> if ($1 eq "Up") {
> $up=parsedate($2);
> } else {
> $down=parsedate($2);
> }
> }
> }
>
> if ( $up <= time() ) {
> print STDERR "No correct up-time in message.\n";
> exit -1;
> }
> if ($down <= $up ) {
> print STDERR "Down-time too small.\n";
> exit -1;
> }
>
> # Use only the needed time elements for "at" and build an argument array
> ($_,$min,$hr,$day,$mon,$yr)=localtime($down);
> $mon+=1;
> $yr+=1900;
> @AtArgs=($DownCmd,"/usr/bin/at",$hr.":"."$min",$mon."/".$day."/".$yr);
> MyPipe(@AtArgs);
> if ($?) { #The `at` failed :-(
> exit -1;
> }
>
> ($_,$min,$hr,$day,$mon,$yr)=localtime($up);
> $mon+=1;
> $yr+=1900;
> @AtArgs=($UpCmd,"/usr/bin/at",$hr.":"."$min",$mon."/".$day."/".$yr);
> MyPipe(@AtArgs);
>
> sub MyPipe {
> # Pipe the contents of the first arrelem through an exec of the rest
> # No errorcheching here :-/
> my ($txt,@ar)=@_;
> my $PIPE;
> open PIPE,"|-" or exec @ar;
> print PIPE $txt;
> close PIPE;
> }
> ----- end perl script -----
> --
> Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OpenPGP key 0xD61A655D
> A lot of the programs you see today are actually put together by
> shamans, and you just take it and if the computer crashes you walk
> around it three times...and maybe it's OK.
> -- Linus Torvalds
>
------------------------------
From: Jeff Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I am trying to do an unbiased comparison of operating systems
Date: 11 Jul 2000 06:01:11 GMT
Mike Diack wrote:
>
> Jeff,
> Even though I am a huge Linux fan (and am longing to see Linux succeed over
> Windows), I must point out one minor point, in the name of fair advocacy:
>
> Windows 2000 DOES support FAT 32.
>
> Mike
*That* is the kind of helpful feedback I need. Many thanks.
Jeff
--
Jeff Silverman, PC guy, Linux wannabe, Java wannabe, Software engineer, husband,
father etc.
See my website: http://www.commercialventvac.com/~jeffs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Jeff Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am trying to do an unbiased comparison of operating systems
Date: 11 Jul 2000 06:02:38 GMT
"J@M" wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 05:11:26 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeff
> Silverman) wrote in <8kbltu$e5e$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Hi,
>
> Just a question about security: On what bases that you've determined non of
> those OSes are secure? Is there a secure OS?
Actually, I am fond of OpenVMS. MVS-XA and VM are also relatively secure operating
systems.
Jeff
>
> Thanks,
--
Jeff Silverman, PC guy, Linux wannabe, Java wannabe, Software engineer, husband,
father etc.
See my website: http://www.commercialventvac.com/~jeffs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:13:51 +0000
From: Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Pete Goodwin: How Linux saved my lunch today!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Similar experience here.
And here. Eleven days ago, my logical partition E: disappeared.
"UNKNOWN". Well, under Linux it was still there, FAT16 type
(I run Win3.11 on top of DOS6.22, a hangover from my office
days). So, using Linux, I just copied all my files from E: to another
(DOS)
partition, which DOS could see. And that is why, this time, my
two hard disks are going to be turned over to Linux, with only
a piddling bit left to Windoze so I can access my printer. Not
overnight, but slowly, as I learn my way. I still would like
to figure out how disk E: became "UNKNOWN" (according to
DOS fdisk), and how I could restore it to FAT16 (as seen
by DOS--Linux already sees it as FAT16, reads it, writes to it!)
I had 18 months of painstakingly collected data there.
Can *I* set my lawyers onto Mr Billy Goats? They would ask me
for $10,000 up front. Ridiculous. So Mr Billy Goats can
impunely stuff up my work, and I cannot do anything about it.
(Will a WinTroll bite?)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:23:47 +0000
From: Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I had a reality check today :(
(I normally don't bother with his sort, but this is too
tempting)
Tim Palmer wrote:
> Proov my point again why do'nt you? In UNIX you half to rite your own programms
Yup, thass riet. In Yew-Nikcs you half, butt inn Windose yoo fool!
(May I enter the Wintroll contest now, pretty please?)
------------------------------
From: Slava Pestov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:25:37 GMT
Tim Palmer wrote:
>
> On 10 Jul 2000 21:36:11 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I still say Windows sucks.
> >
>
> And I stil say Lie-nux suck.
And no-one's listening to you.
Slava
------------------------------
From: Carlos Villegas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: linux: 'insmod sr_mod': no module by that name found
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:44:43 GMT
My goal is to have the 'sr_mod module' load automatically.
As root I typed: 'insmod sr_mod'
And I got this:
insmod: sr_mod: no module by that name found
How can I get the sr_mod module to load automatically given the above
obsticle?
======================================
-- Carlos Villegas
-- e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
======================================
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:41:07 GMT
{htt when YOU can argue the facts, then come back, little boy.
still waiting for you to prove your claim "ms business practices have
nothing to do with the W2K product".
Never mind that the fortune 500 is NOT ont the cutting edge of the
internet! No wonder they would use W2K!
In article <Hsya5.11866$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8kdc0h$7ki$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > WOW! 2 biased magazine articles! typical Drestin. Never an impatial
> > source!
> >
>
> Argue the facts - disprove the numbers - THEN you'll have something.
The
> ultimate source of ALL of this data is Netcraft. The same netcraft you
shout
> about for apache numbers - same place. So, if you believe there are
lies
> here, disprove them or do you mean to suggest that you now believe
Netcraft
> is not impartial and lying? wow...
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Carlos Villegas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: linux:Unresolved symbol using 'insmod sg'
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:19:36 GMT
My goal is to have the 'sg module' load automatically.
As root I typed: 'insmod sg'
And I got this:
Using /lib/modules/2.2.14/scsi/sg.o
/lib/modules/2.2.14/scsi/sg.o: unresolved symbol
is_reg_chrdev
How can I get the sg module to load automatically given the above
obsticle?
======================================
-- Carlos Villegas
-- e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
======================================
--
======================================
-- Carlos Villegas
-- e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
======================================
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: 11 Jul 2000 01:30:16 -0500
In article <Gb1a5.2499$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Daniel Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> If you want to claim that dropping an incompatible dialer
>> on every desktop didn't break the standards-conforming
>> existing hardware, you should provide the evidence, except
>> there obviously isn't any.
>
>If you want to play the "shifting the burden of proof" game,
>you really ought to do it more subtlely.
>
>You are being *so* blatant about it that the only people who
>will be convinced are the sort of people who would
>had already agreed in advance, for other reasons entirely.
Anyone who lived through the era in the communications business
knows they had to update the firmware in all their dialup
equipment or replace it when Win95 put MSCHAP on every
desktop.
>[snip]
>> >They were, after all, somehow able to get by before
>> >MSCHAP got along. They had to have *some* way to
>> >distribute their dialers.
>>
>> No, they just worked with standard PPP dialers before. No
>> need to distribute anything proprietary.
>
>Who cares about "propretary" versus "standard"? They
>had to distribute their dialers *somehow*, regardless
>of what protocol.
You really don't understand the concept of following
standards, do you? There is no 'their' dialer. Any
standard ppp dialer worked. There was no need to
match any vendor's dialer to their dial-up hardware
until MS entered the picture.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: 11 Jul 2000 06:37:07 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rob:
>
> I didn't read the code because I have a few questions before I even begin to
> think about how to do this in windows.
>
You didnt read the code because you CANT read the code, dresden.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: Slava Pestov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux lags behind Windows
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:33:41 GMT
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> (I can't comment on the stability of Linux, I don't use it enough).
How about you use it some more then, instead of wasting your time posting
trolls to cola?
> I agree with you. There are cases where Linux leads and Windows lags, but I
> think overall, in most cases, Linux still lags behind Windows.
You "think" but you can't prove it.
> The thing that interests me is that you feel you can "stop being polite and
> join the attack". Why do you feel that, I wonder?
I'm sure most people would be tempted to "join the attack" after reading
your illogical posts.
Slava
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it
Date: 11 Jul 2000 06:38:20 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "abraxas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8kd23a$288d$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> > I've always maintained what is obvious: Netcraft JUST counts domains and
>> > doesn't discriminate between a linux/apache domain of "joesmomma.com" vs
>> > W2K/IIS for dell.com - to Netcraft, they mean the same. So, all this
> Apache
>> > dominates the web is for those that think PURE number counts mean
>> > EVERYTHING. Bullshit I say. Someone finally proved it out for me.
>> >
>> > The companies that matter, those top companies, you know, money making
> ones?
>> > Companies that are concerned about their image, product, availability,
>> > uptime, performance and all that matters cause their name/image on-line
>> > matters - they are NOT using apache and MOST DEFINATLEY not using Linux!
>> >
>>
>> Google is just finishing up their 6,000 node linux cluster. Google is the
>> only existing search engine which has had zero downtime since its
> inception.
>>
>> You do not know what youre talking about.
>
> so, your reply to these articles is something to do with google needing such
> a huge cluster of boxes and your unsupported claim of zero downtime since
> inception?
>
The reason that theyve had zero downtime since their linux cluster
approach is because of "redundancy". I dont expect you to know what
that means.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: Slava Pestov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Vote for the best WinTroll - COLA Oscars
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 06:37:50 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Amy is my wife.
>
> Heather is her middle name.
>
> At one time we shared accounts, but she has since gotten her own
> account.
>
> Wonder why that is?
So she posts FUD for entertainment purposes too?
Slava
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it
Date: 11 Jul 2000 06:39:21 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> An IT manager
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!
Oh god, dresden, stop it. Youre killing me.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
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