Linux-Advocacy Digest #668, Volume #27 Fri, 14 Jul 00 06:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux lags behind Windows ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish. (Truckasaurus)
Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish. (Truckasaurus)
Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Are Linux people illiterate? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: ## NEW ## MULTITOOL for Linux ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Some Windows weirdnesses... (V'rgo Vardja)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots (Iko)
Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish. ("David Brown")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux lags behind Windows
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:42:00 -0400
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I never implied that *EVERY* application has race conditions.
> > However, any programmer who keeps himself IGNORANT of process
> > scheduling and race conditions is going to step on a land mine,
> > and NEVER figure it out.
>
> If they're writing multiprocess and multithreaded applications yes. Most
> of the GUI applications I write don't fall into this category. Device
> drivers are another story.
>
> > Let's suppose I'm simulating a battlefield, and, to make the task of
> > modelling each entity, I have decided to model each unit, weapon,
> > building, even the terrain, as a seperate processes.
>
> I can think of a real world example... in the device driver I'm working
You specified when would an APPLICATION programmer need to know
about the scheduler. Fine...I gave you an APPLICATION example.
> on we have linked lists of the various buffers in the system. Now,
> mostly everything runs at IRQL 0 (named PASSIVE_LEVEL) but every 10ms, a
> timer fires. This timer runs at IRQL 2 (named DISPATCH_LEVEL) and
> supersedes any user application or device driver.
>
> (Anyone familiar with WDM device drivers will probably ask why we're
> using our own implemented linked lists - because our library supports
> VXD's as well as WDM).
>
> If the user application is in the middle of manipulating the list, and
> the timer kicks in and tries to walk this list then *BANG*. Of course,
> what we use to protect this are what's called SpinLocks. They are mutexs
> that work at elevated IQRL, so whilst the user thread is manipulating
> the list (adding a buffer or removing one), the timer thread stalls
> until the mutex is freed.
>
> Doing device driver work means you have to worry about the paging
> system, and pageable and non pageable memory. At PASSIVE_LEVEL, paging
> is allowed and you can happily access pageable data and code as the
> pager will page it in for you.
>
> At elevated IRQL (DISPATCH_LEVEL or above), the pager is not active.
> Touch pageable data or code and you might generate a page fault in
> kernel space and that's a BSOD.
>
> Another example is the VAX InterlockedIncrement instruction. It is
> _guaranteed_ to load a byte/word/longword, increment and store it
> without allowing anything else to get in. In a multi CPU system this is
> very important for semaphores.
>
> The process is similar to yours except I chose to use what I'm familiar
> with - your use of pipes is not something I've done much.
It's a simple fifo buffer, which MAY appear in the filesystem
>
> --
> ---
> Pete
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Truckasaurus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.sad-people.microsoft.lovers,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish.
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:36:57 GMT
In article <q4695.399$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Yannick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Truckasaurus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message :
> 8jumsu$mae$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish.
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > (...)
> > > Windows has no equal...At least not yet....
> > If you were happy with Windows, why were you considering a switch?
> > In order to be able to troll perhaps?
>
> Why, everybody was telling him linux was better. That MS was an
horrible
> company, working only to suck his money and control his life. That
they were
> going to destroy Microsoft and Windows, the OS he was currently
using...
- or maybe he is just what I accused him of being; a troll that 'gave
Linux a try', but really just did a lousy halfhearted install attempt,
in order to have an excuse for pooping on the good name of Linux.
It isn't hard to mess up an install - you can even do it in Windows.
So a failed installation doesn't really prove anything, other than that
you failed installing...
--
"Hello, everybody!"
- Doctor Nick
Martin A. Boegelund.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Truckasaurus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.sad-people.microsoft.lovers,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish.
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:41:41 GMT
In article <2Apa5.1507$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Yannick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message :
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(...)
> > which we must all admit are natural parts of any typical person's
use of
> > computers.
> > But that MS is a horrible company,
> As of today, this has become an _opinion_.
- backed by a court ruling...
> > that their products work only to suck money
> It's an american company...
Oy, Nationalism... Nice going!
--
"Hello, everybody!"
- Doctor Nick
Martin A. Boegelund.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.sad-people.microsoft.lovers,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish.
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:47:13 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> In any one case, you have a crash, and you may be able to prevent it
> from happening again through administration. But I've noticed that to
> most people these days "proper administration" and "competent end-user"
> equates to "knows how to avoid doing the things that make Windows tend
> to crash", when the fact is that Windows isn't supposed to tend to crash
> to begin with, any more than any other computer system. All too often,
> everybody ends up just waving dead chickens, proud of their voodoo power
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HA!
> to keep Windows from crashing. Most of the trick to a successful
> Windows experience is pure blind luck, as far as I can see.
>
> And that is as much a problem of troubleshooting and system management
> technique as it is crappy software, because a lot of people should have
> picked up on this a lot sooner. (Some might argue that many did, which
> is why "reboot/reinstall" is the primary technique for dealing with
> problematic Windows installations.)
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> Manager of Research & Educational Services
> Managed Services
> [A corporation which does not wish to be identified]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
> my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
> applicable licensing agreement]-
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Are Linux people illiterate?
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:50:19 -0400
"R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" wrote:
>
> In article <8kic9g$sqj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > A WHOLE bunch of typos at the Linux documentation project!
>
> Keep in mind that for many of those contributing to this archive,
> English is their second or third language. Many linux contributors
> are German, French, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Italian, Spanish, and
> Texan :-).
>
> (I'm Colorado born and bred and we just LOVE TEXANS :-).
Do you prefer ketchup or teriyaki sauce?
[a straight line just BEGGING to be capitalized upon!]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sucks
Subject: Re: ## NEW ## MULTITOOL for Linux
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 04:53:45 -0400
Jacques Guy wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> > M$ will be rejected by more and more people until they learn to
> > grow up and act like responsible adults, rather than expecting
> > the customer to change the diapers every time their 15-year old
> > child craps its pants again....
>
> Liekc hour gudde phren'd Timb Pammer rietz:
>
> Lie-nux sucks.
>
> Yeas, Tymm, butt remmembre:
>
> Windoze drools.
>
> (How am I running in the contests for
> 1) best troll
> 2) worst troll
> 3) best speller
> 4) whirst speallar?)
yoo mispeld trole.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: V'rgo Vardja <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Some Windows weirdnesses...
Date: 14 Jul 2000 09:14:57 GMT
Hi,
I've been lurking in c.o.l.a for a while, observing the constant battle
between Linvocates and Windows lovers. The main point of the Winvocates
seems to be 'Linux doesn't support my hardware or my Word documents and
GIMP sucks compared to Photoshop because GIMP is called GIMP'.
Linvocates retaliate with 'Windows crashes and needs a reboot every 42
seconds and every minor version changes driver format'. For myself, I
like Linux. And I tolerate Windows. I won't go throwing it out of the
nearest airlock, but I sure as hell don't think Windows is as perfect as
certain you-know-whos try to convince us.
See, Winvocates, you've been trying to get the Linux community to
acknowledge the imperfections of Linux. Now I'd like to hear what *you*
can say about the couple of weird Windows quirks.
My home computer is a 486DX/33 (16M memory), which dual-boots Win95 and
Slackware 7.0. Linux runs perfectly; Windows has a weird bug: it refuses
to cold-boot correctly. If I turn the power on and let Windows boot by
itself then the boot process hangs before the GUI shows up. The only thing
I can do to un-wedge it is another cold boot. So now if I want to use
Windows I'll first have to hit F8, boot to DOS mode, run Norton Commander
and then hit *CTRL* *ALT* *DEL* and after that Windows warm-boots
correctly. I've tried two versions of Win95 and several reinstalls, and
it still has that weird problem.
I work in a private school as a general all-around friendly
neighbourhood computer guy, BOFH and/or webmaster. Which means I also
take care of our computer labs (Windows 95 networked in a WinNT domain).
So here's a couple of, er, interesting Win95 *features* I've encountered
so far.
Have you ever seen Win95 forget the hardware it sits on? Well, I have.
Sometimes a teacher will come and tell me that a soundcard isn't
working, or a computer is unable to log on to the network. So I'll have
a look and find that the soundcard or network card definition is missing
or broken in the System Properties. And yes, we have denied ordinary
users access to most Control Panel applets with system policies, so it
could not have been the fault of children removing the devices.
Reinstalling drivers works with the soundcards but to get the network
adapters going again I have to remove the software with Add/Remove
Programs applet and *then* reinstall. And we're *not* talking broken
hardware.
When you log on to Microsoft Networked computer you are asked whether or
not you want to save your personal preferences. If you say 'yes', your
user.dat gets saved to c:\windows\profiles\your_login_name\user.dat. If
you say 'no' then your profile will *not* be saved - instead the changes
you might make in the interface configuration will be saved as the
default configuration, for instance your desktop background and screen
saver properties. So people would set up a password-protected screen
saver which happily kicks in after they log off. No one else could use
the computer unless we did a physical reset. *CTRL* *ALT* *DEL*
combination doesn't work and there is no administrative password (unlike
in WinNT where administrator's username and password can unlock a
password-protected session) and it is not possible to log on to the
computer over the network like for instance with Linux. After a while I
finally found a program that can access user.dat on a remote machine and
crack the password (thank goodness for Microsoft's lousy screensaver
password encryption!).
Win95 does not do a good job at protecting its underlying hardware. I've
seen countless of occasions where a game fscks up monitor refresh and/or
screen resolution so that the screen flickers like something from the
late 80's. Ever seen a 320x200 screen resolution with 800x600 virtual
desktop? Not good.
Our system policy makes it unable for our users to access the computers
without logging on to the network (no pressing *ESC* and gaining access
to the computer, that is). So the younger children who do not have their
own accounts yet can only use the computers if a teacher logs them on.
Unfortunately the kids found a way to bypass that restriction by
replacing the domain name in login dialog with a bogus one - Win95 tries
to log on to that non-existent domain, gets no answer but nevertheless
assumes that it's OK to allow the login. Officially there was nothing I
could do to stop them; there were no patches we could find from Microsoft
and no way to get rid of the Domain: field of the login dialog. So I did
something that probably goes against Microsoft's licence - I used the
resource editor from Visual C++ to disable (gray out) the Domain: field
within a Windows DLL... This got rid of that problem. (talk about
configurability...)
Then there is the issue of filesystem quotas - something Win95/98/NT
does not have. Our network admin has set the disk space limit on the
home directories to 5 megabytes for ordinary users... unfortunately the
NT server does not yet have a way of enforcing the quotas so he checks
the sizes of the users' home directories every once in a while. So far
the record is five bloody hundred megabytes of mp3's in one person's
home directory. And the admin does a nightly backup from the partition
on the server where home directories are kept... Now someone tell me
that Windows rules compared to Linux. Hah!
And I won't even mention the number of Windows crashes. My own
workstation (which is the only one right now that runs Linux) has
probably the lowest amount of crashes in the whole school complex, and
those crashes only happen because it also double-boots Windows. The
only times I've managed to crash Linux was when I tried to compile my
very first kernel (oops! modularised IDE disk support and ELF binary
support... guess what that meant) and when I tried to get a scanner to
work with the poor excuse it had for a SCSI card.
So, dear winvocates, you can now try to present your solutions to the
problems I just described, which would not exist if the computers were
running Linux. And please, don't bother with statements like 'LINUX
SUXXX' and 'Linux doesn't support my printer' or 'Buy Win2k'.
Happy hacking,
Virgo
--
ERROR: CPU not detected. Emulating.
-Win2k
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:15:40 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Stump) writes:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Logical arguments cannot reasonably rest purely on dictionary
>>definitions. Surely you people are smart enough to realize that.
>
> I don't see why. I am first a CS type person. I sure you can see a
> but of this in my answer. I like things like logic and philosophy. A
> current unabridged dictionary is a fascinating tool. All the online
> dictionaries I've read are sad, very sad shadows of what a dictionary
> should be.
Dictionaries are snapshots, describing what a number of people could
find out about the use of words in the language. Similarly, grammars
are snapshots of how these words are modified, combined and aggregated
by a (as large as possible) sample of the speakers of the language.
Even in cultures with strong normative reflexes (like the French),
the "correct" use of the language as laid down in the official
dictionaries and grammars is happily ignored by the vast majority
of native speakers.
<example>
The Academie Francaise tried to get the French to replace
the English -ing suffix with what they considered the French
equivalent -age. Suffice to say that no French speaker ever
says "livage" instead of "living (room)", or "parkage" instead
of "parking".
</example>
>
> They are what we can reasonably agree on about what our language is.
> Menaing, if it isn't in there, we haven't achieved consensus, or maybe
> it just isn't current.
Those who see dictionaries and grammars as normative (ie what's
not there is not correct) are destined to speak a very stilted
version of the language.
OTOH, there's no reason to introduce gratuitous differences
when trying to communicate with as large an audience as
possible (e.g. writing "u" for "you", leading to absurdities
as "ur" for "your", or doing an e e cummings imitation).
No-one contests that the current rules are mere conventions,
but they exist so that we can communicate with the least
effort.
> Once you throw in domain dictionaries (which hardly ever exist), one
> can achieve a more interesting sense of completeness.
>
> Anyway, let's not let this side the real conversation (even if I can't
> recall it offhand anymore).
'T was about calling software free.
I guess that people who can execute a program can also call it free :-)
--
Stefaan
--
Ninety-Ninety Rule of Project Schedules:
The first ninety percent of the task takes ninety percent of
the time, and the last ten percent takes the other ninety percent.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
From: Iko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 02:44:59 -0700
It's clear you miss a lot off brains...when you spent three weeks
setting up a linux box you must go back to school.
Keep playing with windows...and stay stupid.
A linux server is made in about 3 hours...even my girlfriend can
do the job..
When you don't know the possibities and you're afraid of command
line working...hold on to you're mouse and click yourself into
the ignorant future..
By the way did you have a good look at 2000 it's build on Linux
ideas..
===========================================================
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.sad-people.microsoft.lovers,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Linux is blamed for users trolling-wish.
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:48:34 +0200
Truckasaurus wrote in message <8kmjo3$vjr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>In article <2Apa5.1507$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Yannick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> > that their products work only to suck money
>> It's an american company...
>
>Oy, Nationalism... Nice going!
>
Yannick is not American - I believe he was implying that it was typical for
an American company to make products whose only use is to suck money.
Were he American, however (and there are a lot of Americans who think that
ms represents the ideal company - it is American and it makes a lot of
money, therefore it should be encouraged no matter how it is making that
money), then condescending sarcasm would definitely be the correct reponse.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
