Linux-Advocacy Digest #758, Volume #27 Tue, 18 Jul 00 18:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Trauma 98-00 ("James")
Re: Are Linux people illiterate? (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Reiserfs (was: Some Windows weirdnesses...) (Rob S. Wolfram)
Re: Advocacy and Programmers... (Paul Gresham)
Re: Trauma 98-00 (Paul Gresham)
Re: Linux is just plain awful ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Star Office to be open sourced (Paul Gresham)
Re: Are Linux people illiterate? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Trauma 98-00 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Trauma 98-00
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:07:17 +0200
Paul,
You are obviously a Win98 fan, and should therefore not moan when it lets
you down. You may be interested to know that MS has another OS aimed at the
business user, namely NT4/5/2000. Give it a spin.
James
"Paul Gresham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> This is the advocacy room, so here's my drivel ...
>
> I must admit as a consultant I unfortunately have to spend time on
> windows, however for the past few months, almost everything I've been
> doing has been on Unix, it seems even my most Windows friendly clients
> are now firm believers that Unix is that way to go, especially for web
> apps !! Yesterday I discovered and downloaded the Linux PDF viewer from
> the Adobe web site, and printed a load docs off, my god they look good.
> I'd recommend it to all linuxer's who haven't got fonts and stuff sorted
> out properly yet.
>
> Today, I finally gave up looking at some Powerpoint stuff, badly
> translated by Star Office, and shutdown my laptop, after about 28 days
> of Linux uptime and Java development (pretty good for a laptop). I
> started up windows 98, and it looked, well, OLD. I remember how good it
> looked when we upgraded from win95, but then a dead hedgehog would look
> good next to win95. So I fired up some office apps and printed a few
> more docs. I needed to get something back to these guys and used Visio
> for a while ... now there are some benefits to Windows and Visio is one
> of them. I tried to cut'n'paste a table in Winword (sorry MS Word 97)
> and oddly enough it crashed. Not only that, but the doc was locked.
> CTRL-ALT-DEL and I was lucky, no reboot this time, there it was lurking
> on the task manager Winword, so I tried killing it off ... wow it
> worked. I opened my document and started again.
>
> After some tinkering around with a tech doc, Suddenly another exception,
> bang, word, half dead again, but dead enough to loose the document ...
> You know what, not a disaster, I didn't realise just how often I save
> things when I'm using Windows, like riding a bicycle or being bitten by
> a dog, you never forget. My frustrations with X are typically web pages
> do not look right, I always end up seeing chunky fonts with no aliasing
> etc, or trying to Cut'n'Paste from a Java IDE to Kwrite and so on,
> things that just work in Windows. Even the lack of decent icons in the
> file managers annoys me a bit.
>
> As it happens, I've now gotten well used to X (I was a DEC Motif person
> for a long time), the novelty of Gnome has worn off and I've switched
> back to KDE, and to be honest, the things that matter work bloody well
> on Unix. If you've got a pretty decent printer, print something off on
> windows, and then compare it to a properly prepared ps file (for
> instance the python docs). You'll be amazed at the difference, there's
> nothing like doing typesetting properly, (and ... here's an oldie ...
> Windows is nothing like doing ...). Things are not too obvious on Unix,
> and its difficult knowing just what is out there, but some searching,
> and learning, and you'll be far more productive than in Windows.
> Generally when you get something on Unix it works bloody well, and keeps
> on working, it works the way the programmer wanted it too, and it works
> unhindered by strange quirks in the OS. Not only that, but most of the
> time I find these apps are portable and will work in Windows too! But
> would I use them on Windows ... NOWAY. Now as a programmer a lot of
> things about Unix, but mostly I miss my keyboard macros, now I'm sure
> its possible to find them, but I just never have, and never will ...
> just recording a quick sequence and repeating it in vi seems so natural,
> almost a sin for a programmer not to have this basic tool.
>
> I've recently downloaded drivers for XFree 86 4.0 from nVidia and
> drivers for my Soundblaster live from Creative, and QII Arena, fantastic
> to have vendor support. I think ESS are gonna do some work with a guy
> called Zabbo who is now an Ex-RedHat Driver hacker. So my laptop is
> pretty well supported too. I have Adobe Acrobat reader, I have Star
> Office. I miss Visio in a big way. My Printers are supported. Linux now
> controls my windows machines in my China office and my Hong Kong office,
> and even manages my small home LAN. I can take my laptop when I travel
> from location to location, plug it in, restart dhcpcd and I'm connected
> to the LAN and the web, whether I'm running windows or Linux, Something
> that most blue chip companies I've worked for could not achieve with
> Million $$ budgets.
>
> I still have a book from 1994, called Linux Installation and Getting
> Started by Matt Welsh, it came with a CD for Slackware 2.0, which I've
> lost. On the inside cover is my system spec when I built my first linux
> box, a 486dx50 (that's a true 50Mhz, not a clock doubled 25) 32MB Ram,
> with a Trident 8900CL/8900D 1024K video card. It doesn't say what sound
> card, but I remember it was an SB16 Pro. Damn it was fast compared to
> windows, I think a kernel build took most of day if not more :).
>
> Thank god they didn't force Bill Gates to make Windows open source, the
> time is not right, now is the time for Linux, it's promise has been
> there for a long time, and now its gaining pace faster and faster. We
> will we've won the battle for acceptance in server realms, and we are
> now on our way to becoming the chosen platform for the office/home
> desktop.
>
> Keep on supporting Linux, and open source, it's better for everyone, but
> more importantly don't believe that things are easier on Windows. I can
> assure you they are not, things are just done differently on Unix and it
> just takes some well rewarded effort to make the switch. Just like
> making any change in life. If you're a technophobe, then Windows will
> just enhance your fear, as most of the time, you just don't know what
> the hell is going on. On second thoughts, don't switch, use Windows for
> the things you like, and gradually learn how to do things better on
> Linux, you'll find that you will become a better Windows user, and will
> also discover a whole world of open source applications that also run on
> Windows.
>
> A couple of weeks back I built a RH Linux box in less than half an hour,
> a similar build of Win2K was taking a couple of hours to working even
> remotely ok. Even then the autoconfigs of Windows were causing lots of
> weird network traffic and stuff, which we had to track down and stop. As
> well as configuring our Linux box to handle DHCP requests, dialup ISDN,
> NAT (IPCHAINS) and firewalled Internet Connections, Two development
> installations of Zope, Sybase Adaptive Server, we were also able to
> write a little python socket handler which popens shell commands to
> start and stop our ISDN connection. We then wrote a little java applet
> served from one of our Zope installations which allows individual users
> on the LAN to start up the Internet connection, when they need it.
> Things like that just don't gel on Windows unless the company who wrote
> the drivers decided to implement such functionality. Now this is a
> 64MB Machine, and the slowest cheapest motherboard/cpu we could find.
>
> I must admit I am biased for Linux (with good reason), but I did have a
> lot of depenancies on windows apps which I thought I could not live
> without. I do have some advantages though over a typical non-techy user,
> being a programmer means you can code a few things that you need, i.e. a
> simple Python/TK money manager is not really a big app, and once you
> build a few little functions into something like that, customise it to
> your taste, suddenly you wish you'd never put 2 years worth of data in
> M$Money. Try not to look for direct replacements for Windows things is
> my point, sometimes there are other ways and following replacement
> windows route may not be a good thing. Have a look around some of the
> python and perl sites for little apps. Scour some of the java site like
> jars, and definitely have a look at Freshmeat,net and sourceforge.
> There's loads of stuff out there. Find things that work, bolt them
> together, try them out, DO send bug reports (and fixes!) and requests to
> the authors, my god, these guys build custom features into their
> software, for you to use, and don't charge you.
>
> One more thing, after using Unix for a while, you'll probably end up
> typing things in more than with Windows, once you've typed these things
> a few times, perhaps asked a few questions in the news groups, looked on
> some websites, read some install docs, you'll find that stringing more
> and more commands together becomes easy ... more easy in fact than
> trying to remember where in the depths of windows gui's was that single
> parameter you want to set (for instance to make windows explorer to
> display in detail mode for all directories on W2K). Now perhaps you'll
> start putting these commands into files so you can recall them really
> easy when you need to, et viola you are programming. If you are reaching
> these stages, definitely take a look at perl and python and other
> scripting languages. If you can speak, you have the ability to give far
> more complex instructions to another human, than most programming
> languages are capable of, in other words, if you can give someone
> directions, you can already program, don't be afraid of it, Microsoft
> wants you to be afraid of it so you pay them to do everything for you,
> and so you don't expect too much. It's really easy to start and you'll
> love it. I know programmers that keep all there notes in text files, so
> they can just use a search utlity (grep) when they need to remember
> something. no databases, no programming, no gui just a load of text
> files, full of notes, telephone numbers, and snippets of useful
> information, and ten years worth of notes can fit on a floppy .... you
> can't do that on most palm tops, you can on windows though, but how
> often do you go to the dos prompt ... net very.
>
> I remember the old DOS Applications like 123 and Wordperfect. In WP you
> used to have to mark up your documents with little characters that would
> do things like turn on bold, then have some text and then another
> character to turn off bold. This was structured text, this was the most
> popular wordprocessor of its time. Why did it lose, because you couldn't
> see what it looked like until you printed it. Now on unix you can write
> your docs in a simlar way, but with the added benefit of being able to
> view them pretty quickly. You can even have multiple authors working on
> different parts of the same document at the same time, store the files
> into a version control system, and output them to PostScript, and PDF,
> all for free ... what's more if something wierd happens in the document,
> you can just go and take a look at what is wrong, you have the
> structured text ... why is this word bold ? why does this comment always
> jump to the top of the page, why can't I get the page numbering in the
> right position ... these types of questions just don't come up unless
> you are restricted to a graphics only program such as MS Word!
>
> Thats enough from me, I felt a bit happy about Linux today and needed to
> get on my soapbox.
>
> All the best
> Gresh
>
>
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Are Linux people illiterate?
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:06:30 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I could, but I don't like to use that kind of language in any language.
> However, I will close with mixed language statement:
>
> ( ( 2 * b ) || !( 2 * b ) ) tolerant is the question.
Tolerance is not something that can be tolerated on usenet. Er, yeah...
Just look at how quickly someone will say, "No you are wrong..." no
matter what you attempt to get across, even if it is simply an opinion
on a totally subjective argument.
(Paraphrasing Ben Kenobi) You will find most of the truths we cling to
are only valid from a particular point of view (sorry, couldn't remember
the exact quote).
opinion != fact although your opinion can be based on a fact.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob S. Wolfram)
Subject: Reiserfs (was: Some Windows weirdnesses...)
Date: 18 Jul 2000 20:33:41 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Ghost In The Machine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Even the ungraceful shutdowns aren't too bad, if one uses something
>like reiserfs -- a full-fledged data-journaling file system.
>(Disclaimer: I don't have it on my system, so can't say from personal
>experience.)
I do, and I have some mixed feelings about it. It seems stable, but it
does seem to need quite a bit more I/O than ext2, which is sometimes
visible on my P233/32MB notebook. What I do miss the most, though, is
the extended file attributes like "immutable" and "append only".
>ext2fs isn't bad, either, although it's not quite as trustworthy.
I disagree here. The only thing is that with ext2 it takes quite a bit
longer to get the filesystem in a sane state after a dirty shutdown. One
of these days[1] I'll experiment with ext3, which is supposed to be 100%
compatible with ext2. If this will work correctly with e2compression, it
will be *very* cute. /me wonders...
>By contrast, FAT is flat. :-) (FAT16 was also *fat*; on modern
>drives, the cluster sizes were ridiculously huge. Thank goodness
>that FAT32 eventually came about -- but ext2 was there first.)
FAT32 is to me the ultimate proof that customer satisfaction is *far*
below marketing on MS' agenda. It is just an ugly and dirty hack to
overcome the ever increasing cluster size, while Microsoft already had a
far superior filesystem in the field, namely NTFS. I cannot see any
technical reason why FAT32 was introduces i.o. implementing the already
existing NTFS code in 9x.
[1] ... or weeks or months ...
Cheers,
Rob
--
Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OpenPGP key 0xD61A655D
"Linux: the operating system with a CLUE...
Command Line User Environment".
------------------------------
From: Paul Gresham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Advocacy and Programmers...
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:13:34 +0800
I know that these tools are touted as RAD tools, but what they are, are
very powerful IDE's based upon a particular language. I use both Forte 4
Java and Borland J Builder both of which are significantly more
professional IDEs than VB.
RAD is a concept and practice, and not a tool or programming language. I
think you'll find that RAD is generally cited as a different approach to
software development than a traditional waterfall method. Many people find
that they already use RAD techniques. For instance a waterfall method will
have an analysis phase, perhaps feasibility study, functional then
technical specifications before coding starts. Whereas RAD may involve
some brief analysis, identifying some key factors in the problem domain
and then building a prototype of some basic functionality. Perhaps more
than one prototype if the platform/tools are not certain. This prototype
is then iteratively improved until it becomes a finished product.
Some RAD methodologies (such as DSDM) go to even greater detail, and
recommend an approach to RAD which empowers business sponsors as well as
technical staff to guide the product from prototype to final product,
producing the right product in a much shorter timeframe. There are many
benefits to RAD techniques, such as constant monitoring of the state of
the product, ensuring that only required functionality is built in, so no
wasted development effort on little used functions. etc.
I think that languages such as VB and python are great for prototyping and
getting things done quiclky. Actually I must admit I hate VB programmers
because they lack true programming skill. I;ve been in meetings where
people were blaming VB for not having plug ins which did certain things
(calendar widgets on VB3 at the time were pretty poor), or perhaps blaming
ODBC drivers for not supporting required functionality. The look in their
faces when I suggested, it may only take a few weeks for their team of
five to write a set of ODBC Drivers ... they just couldn't understand how.
It is that VB type of mentality that alienates these tools from real
programmers, and gives windows programmers a bad rep. These people think
they are up to date, and using RAD, when in fact they do not understand
what RAD really is.
Anyhow VB in excel has been a wonderful tool for me and can work some real
magic. These prototyping tools are not to be put down. Python is quite
capable of supporting a large complex system (We have two web sites coming
out within the next month written in python and Zope). I can also say that
I've never used Delphi, and I freely admit that my bias means I never
will, I just can't do it, just like I refuse to use VB. With the windows
extensions to Python, supporting COM and OLE, I think I'll never touch
VB again.
What I want to see is what are traditionally considered Unix tools,
appearing on Windows, Rid the world of VB by building a better GUI builder
for TK, couple that with Python and its Windows extenstions and the world
will be a much better place.
Thats my pennies worth!
Gresh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have followed this ng for a while now. One very interesting fact I
> picked up is the huge anti RAD (Rappid Application Development) fealing
> of the Linux Programmers.
>
> Well, I have played with Linux for three years now, and I must be
> honest - I can not wait for the Delphi port to hit the market. I
> can understand the arguments of coding for speed, and lets be honest,
> RAD tools usually drag a lot of code that will never be used.
>
> Anyway, with ever faster computers I believe the difference between a
> RAD app and a "vi" written app will be very small (speed wise).
>
> So, what I want to say is this: I believe RAD tools for Linux is a
> must - especially Delphi and Builder (maybe also VB?). There are plenty
> of M$ programmers out there playing with Linux, and now they too will
> have tools to write some great apps for Linux. I belief we should see a
> huge app explosion within two years after Delphi is available on Linux.
>
> Just my thoughts...
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Paul Gresham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Trauma 98-00
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:17:18 +0800
Unfortunately much of the hardware in my laptop is not correctly supported by
W2K or Win NT4. or I'd be running W2K. Perhaps in the coming months it'll
support it.
However most things apart from the Winmodem will work on Linux ... pretty
amazing that linux is ahead of W2K with the drivers.
James wrote:
> Paul,
>
> You are obviously a Win98 fan, and should therefore not moan when it lets
> you down. You may be interested to know that MS has another OS aimed at the
> business user, namely NT4/5/2000. Give it a spin.
>
> James
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is just plain awful
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:30:10 -0400
Bob Hauck wrote:
>
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 09:51:46 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >A friend of mine showed me a kernal-code sample sent to a friend of
> >his (by a microsoft programmer)
>
> >Freaking GOTO statements all over the place.... in C CODE!!!!!
>
> I wouldn't be throwing stones...
>
> [hauck@lab linux]$ cd /usr/src/linux
> [hauck@lab linux]$ find -name \*\.c -exec grep -w goto {} \;|wc
> 6781 15167 123774
What I was show was pure spaghetti code that would confuse even the
most grizzled lifelong BASIC-droid...
I sincerely doubt that the linux source is full of spaghetti code.
bailouts, yeah...but spaghetti, no.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Paul Gresham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Star Office to be open sourced
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:26:40 +0800
Of course offering CVS or code access will improve access time to bug fixes to
those that need them, and to new features for the curious folk. It offers an
ongoing alpha and beta test program for Sun, with no risk. I certainly don't
hack on the forte4j source,but I sure give a good beating, and report problems
back to Sun when they occur ... it must be worthwhile for them. I feel it gives
the product an edge as the users will actively participate in the development
of the product, even if they do not develop anything themselves. Feedback is
very important, and the source builds are likely to only be used by folk who
will provide feedback ... Linux users are renowned for their vocal qualities!
Gresh
phil hunt wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:12:41 -0700, Pan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >In part because they need to attract developers and they realize that
> >the best way to attract developers without paying them is to license
> >under the gpl.
>
> That's possibly part of it.
>
> However, making a big complex program open source won't necessarily
> attrack many outside developers -- look at netscape.
>
> OTOH, does Star Office need many developers? I doubt it, office suites
> are mainly old ideas by now, and won't be coming up with any readical
> new features. The main things that'll need changing with SO in the
> future are small improvemnts, such as compatibility with MS's continually
> changing file formats.
>
> > AFAIK, Sun's SO-based star portal is the only office
> >software that is in any real position to compete with micros~1 office as
> >sgml embedded office applications. Of course, SO has the advantage of
> >being portable across multiple platforms and browsers whereas office
> >will work on one platform and in one browser.
>
> It's interesting that a lot of Internet Applicance software is becoming
> Linux-based. Putting SO on cheap home PCs running Linux seems sensible.
> Cheap office PCs too (perhaps controlled by a Sun Server as a rebirth of
> the "network computer" concept -- which might save on admin costs).
>
> --
> ***** Phil Hunt ***** send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] *****
> Moore's Law: hardware speed doubles every 18 months
> Gates' Law: software speed halves every 18 months
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Are Linux people illiterate?
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:31:38 -0400
Humor-recognition ain't your strong suit, is it?
MH wrote:
>
> > HOW DARE YOU, SIR?
> > How dare you equate "proper" English skills with computer ability
> > and logical thinking?
>
> Your argument is fraught with emotion, therefore most of the points you
> attempt to make are mitigated. Show me a logical person with computer
> ability beyond typical use of said device and I'll show you an individual
> who takes the same care in writing as they do speaking, as they do
> programming.
>
> > "Payed" is much more logical than "paid". Just try to *logically*
> > explain why "shure" is a misspelling.
>
> Simple. I speak and write English. There and two ways to do this. Right and
> wrong.
> The above argument to tense aside, if I'm not to abide by the rules of my
> native tongue why would not such sloppiness be expected not to spill over
> into whatever I do? Writing code included.
>
> > Unfortunately, it boils down to English speaking presumption in general
> > and, all too often, "American" middle/upper-class arrogance in practice.
>
> No need for a class war here. But then this is COLA. There is nothing
> arrogant in pointing out how some individuals who argue from a position of
> knowledge and authority being unable to correctly express themselves in
> their native language. I suppose you're a proponent of Ebonics, aren't you?
> Let us perpetuate a tower of babble. The hell with all the rulz..oops..
>
> > You, sir, are a typical example of the latter.
>
> Please. You assume too much. As well as protest too much.
>
> > You ignored the posts earlier in the thread about people who process
> > things differently than us (dyslexic) and I am sure our multilingual
> > peers could provide more forceful response in languages you don't
> > have even enough grasp to misuse.
>
> I don't have the other posts you allude to. I don't download 100's of posts
> at a time.
> I didn't see them. So I can't put this pissy statement in any context to
> rebutt it.
>
> > > I could go on but a dead horse is quite an ugly image.
>
> > Then go back to COBOL. I'm *shure* open-minded, logical thinking
> > will never die, and I trust it over your kind of high-minded
> > arrogance every time.
>
> I don't programm in Cobol. I'm *sure* of it. High minded? No, I don't make
> the rules, I just try to abide by them. r u kool wit dat r wat?
>
> > Upper/Middle Class English Speaking U.S. Citizen,
> > David Petticord
>
> Lower/middle class human being on planet earth,
> Mark Hall
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:33:07 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said Aaron R. Kulkis in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> [...]
> >scripts could be written fairly easily.
> >
> >I'll see if I can come up with something.
>
> Please, don't trouble yourself on my account. It is not an immediate
> concern by any means.
Believe me, I (and everyone) could benefit from something like this.
>
> Plus, I'd prefer something with a GUI. :-)
>
I'm not good with GUI's, but I'm sure once I get my code done,
someone could put a pretty point&click front-end on it.
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Trauma 98-00
Reply-To: the wobbler
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:37:00 GMT
Try Win98SE, the fonts look great and it does all
of what you are looking for.
Stop wasting your time on Linsux.
If you want boxy lookig fonts and documents in
formats that the rest of the world is NOT using,
try Linsux....
On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:17:18 +0800, Paul Gresham
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Unfortunately much of the hardware in my laptop is not correctly supported by
>W2K or Win NT4. or I'd be running W2K. Perhaps in the coming months it'll
>support it.
>
>However most things apart from the Winmodem will work on Linux ... pretty
>amazing that linux is ahead of W2K with the drivers.
>
>James wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> You are obviously a Win98 fan, and should therefore not moan when it lets
>> you down. You may be interested to know that MS has another OS aimed at the
>> business user, namely NT4/5/2000. Give it a spin.
>>
>> James
------------------------------
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