Linux-Advocacy Digest #987, Volume #27 Wed, 26 Jul 00 13:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary? (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? (Craig Kelley)
Re: LOREN PETRICH, CRYPTO-COMMIE ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Another one of Lenin's Useful Idiots denies reality ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: No wonder Hackers love Linux (Craig Kelley)
Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary? (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? ("Spud")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Seán Ó Donnchadha)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:23:03 -0500
Perry Pip wrote:
> I originally accused another poster of being sociopathic. You jumped
> to his defense and I inadvertantly made that accusation about you. In
> my previous post I withdrew that accusation and apologized. Did you
> miss that?? Or are you having a hard time with forgiveness (another
> human weakness)??
No, I caught it, it just seemed you came back to it later in your post.
Sorry, miscalculation, misread....
>
> >> >Humanity on the whole has a swelled head.
> >>
> >> Your damned right about that, Nathaniel. Not just the assholes in our
> >> Government, but Humanity on the whole;-)
> >
> ><philosophical rant>
> >Absolutely. You know, I don't like admitting it very often, but
> >sometimes I just wish there would be a huge global catastrophe that
> >would make people realize that we aren't in control of *everything* and
> >that humanity is not its own god. In other words: Armegedon.
>
> Self destruction will only lead only to more shame. And as they
> say...suicide is the cowards way out.
Armegeddon doesn't necissarily have to come from within humanity
itself. I prefer nature's way. Earthquakes, commets/asteroids, other
natural disasters to put humanity back in it's place. These could also
bring about "armegedon", it's just not seen as the same thing by some I
guess.
>
> >I know it
> >sounds ugly,
>
> Not as ugly as thousands of years of long drawn out suffering in the
> form of overpopulation and poverty and disease and strife and
> environmental devastation. That would be natures way of telling us we
> need to get our shit together, instead of a self-inflicted solution like
> Armegedon
>
Again, see what I said above. I don't intend to bring about armegeddon
myself, nor do I think humans should. It needs to come from nature, or
once the "fallout" period is over, people will be just as cocky as they
are now. Because, after all, humanity caused it, so we are still in
control. It needs to be natural armegeddon, natural caused anyway.
(and perhaps we have different definitions of what armegedon means?)
> >but I feel like humanity is on the brink of being too cocky
> >to continue. We already feel we know it all. We already feel like we
> >control the universes destiny. While there are a select few of us that
> >question things, and try to move science forward, most are just content
> >with where we are. I don't think we are in the best position for us (on
> >the whole) right now. I think we need to keep moving forward. We need
> >to keep questioning. We need to keep learning. You shut off that
> >little bit of your mind that allows you to *input* data, and your life
> >just as well be over. If humanity keeps trying to stop science (look at
> >things like the space program to see what I mean)
>
> ?? How is the space program trying to stop science?
My intention was that people (especially in the government) are fighting
against the space (and other scientific) programs. Look at the space
program, and you will see something that could bring about huge
advances, but that politicians, and many private interest groups are
saying is a complete waste of time. They are fighting tooth and nail to
get the space program stopped because it is a *waste of resources*. It
seems ridiculous to cut off innovation because the cause of that
innovation doesn't present an immediate and completely measureable
return, but that seems to be what is happening. And that is what I was
getting at.
>
> >, keeps trying to shut
> >up literary writers (they don't *show me the money* quite like
> >pop-culturists), keeps trying to stop positive images (the news makes
> >better ratings with *shock-rock* style cultural depictions), and keeps
> >trying to enhance our view of ourselves as a negative race (again, the
> >media focus on the shocking, negative, deadly, and evil underbelly of
> >society), we will stop moving forward.
>
> I think it goes much deeper than that . We have lost our way with
> nature i.e. universe. We are not in any harmony with nature or
> with the universe. Instead, we think the universe is here for us to
> exploit to our own end. We forget that the dirt and soil of mother
> Earth is what our flesh is made of. We forget that we are all
> connected, both to one another and to nature. We are in effect an
> "eco-pathic" species.
Again this comes back to my basic premise above: we need a major
mother-nature induced shake-up of humanity. We need to be put back into
our place. We need to see that we aren't the gods we (as a race) try to
claim we are.
>
> >It isn't just a government issue. It's a humanity issue.
>
> Yes, it is a humanity issue. Government is one part of that issue. I
> don't see how six billion people can learn to live together on this
> planet with at least some leadership. So there needs to be
> Government. You can't eliminate it from the equation, though there are
> other, maybe larger, parts of the equation too.
>
Yes, and I focus on the other parts. I'm not saying government needs to
be removed, I just concentrate elsewhere.
> >I focus on
> >areas other than government, because I feel the change we really need
> >(which would lead to a government shake-up) need to come from somewhere
> >deep in the heart of humanity on the whole. There is my proposed
> >solution (and why I don't consider myself a sociopath). I push people
> >to question, and to find the answer to their question. I push myself to
> >learn more, to write more, to create the music that I love. Now, I'm
> >not stupid or egotistical enough to consider myself to be the
> >*phase-shift* incarnate that humanity needs. But if I touch enough
> >lives in just the right way, maybe one or more of the people I reach
> >will be a part of it. It's a lot deeper than just government. And I
> >feel starting with the government isn't the right tactic (maybe it is
> >for you, but not for me).
>
> That's fine for you. I choose to address the issues on multiple
> fronts.
Different ways of dealing with the same problem. My way helps me feel
I've accomplished something, your way (presumably) does the same for
you. To each his own...
I don't discredity your method (as it obviously is right for you) I just
discredit the idea that only one method has merit. I also don't agree
that this is something that should be faced by every individual on the
planet in the same way. Each needs to find his strong suit and go with
it....
>
> >We have to start somwhere else. We have to
> >start with something deeper, and more integral to humanity.
> >People as individuals still cherish the idea of the human spirit, the
> >idea that we each have a soul. My number one question in life, and the
> >one I keep trying to find an answer to is this: What happened to the
> >idea of humanity's spirit? Where is humanity's soul? Where ever we
> >misplaced it, we must find it again.
>
> About all that the religions agree on in regards to spirituality is
> that we've lost our way. Other than that, they are too busy killing one
> another over how we are supposed to find our way back.
I suppose I've been lumped in with religion here now? This is one thing
I will not tolerate. Religious people in my life have always been quick
to judge, and quicker to shut off their brains. I hate the idea of
religion. Religion is an excuse, a disease. It allows you to not take
any responsibility for your actions (the lord works in mysterious ways,
I was 'told' to by god, blah, blah, blah), it allows you to say, "Why
did god allow this to happen?" when you should be asking, "Why did this
happen, and what can I do to prevent it happening again. Religion is
another side of politics in my view of things. It is just as full of
pretensions no-it-alls as the political arena is, and just as worthless
in my opinion.
>
> >And that isn't going to happen
> >because of a single person. It isn't going to happen through a
> >government shake-up. It's going to happen when enough people stop, look
> >around them, and ask: What are we? Why are we here? What will become
> >of us (as a race)? Where do we go from here?
>
> These will certainly be good questions for the world to ask. But
> consider the stubborness of people, and especially the stubborness
> of the world religions. It will probably take a few thousands years of
> overpopulation and poverty and disease and strife and environmental
> devastation, before the majority of people ready to ask these
> questions in a open minded way and be willing to find out who they
> really are. For the short term, though, I'll settle for a government
> shake up. It would be fun to watch, and surely wouldn't hurt the
> situation!
True enough, and if I see the opportunity for something like this to
happen I might consider joining in (if I see it as a way to actually
improve the general situation). But that's still not my main focus, and
probably never will be.
>
> >Yeah, I know, high-minded ideas. And not something I can implement
> >myself. But I sure as hell am going to try to at least get people
> >thinking about it when I can.
>
> Ah...but be careful. Some people may be thinking much deeper than you
> and just not telling you because they don't think you will
> understand. Stay open minded.
OK, I try to stay open minded. But as soon as someone accuses me of
being something I am not, I'm pretty much done with them. Unless they
can give me a valid reason they feel that way (and I have been proven
wrong on some things), I will not put up with them. Especially if they
are like some of my relatives and insist that every sentence they utter
around me ends with something like "you asshole." or "you
satan-worshipper" (another thing I've never even considered) or some
similar non-sense. If someone addresses me as a human being, I consider
their view. If they address me as a lesser being, or a completely
inferior piece of garbage, I'll bow out and walk away. It's easier than
trying to explain myself, and it saves me having to lash out. (With
relatives that isn't always easy, the occasional fight breaks out.)
>
> >That's my contribution to society.
> >That's my attempt to break through. Hopefully it will mean something.
> >But I do know that it gives me a sense of purpose. It gives me the
> >feeling that I am accomplishing something. And that is one thing that
> >is missing in too many lives right now. It was missing in mine for
> >years. As a teen I began to see these questions. In my early twenties,
> >I began to put these questions forward in my mind. Today, I'm still
> >asking them, but I'm asking them out-loud more and more.
>
> I grew up in a house with no religion, being told by my parents to
> believe whatever I wish. I am quite greatful for that. I caused me to
> question at a very young age...as in like pre-school. Other kids told
> me about church. I threw that idea out right away. By the time I was a
> teenager, I was questioning things extremely aggressively. At the age
> of twenty, I totally out of control and ready to kill myself just to
> seek an answer. Then, when I had least expected, my answer came, and
> for the first time in my life I felt connected. I have been living
> for that connectedness ever since. Call me a freak if you wish.
Not a freak. Normal I would say. Everyone goes through a period of
discontent in their lives. Everyone. I know I sure as hell did. For
some people it never ends. For others, it ends early. For me, it
didn't end so much as just fade slowly. If I had to put a point on it I
would say the second date with the woman I now call my wife. That was
the last time I felt completely worthless. The questions themselves
never bothered me. It was the feeling of emptiness. That didn't come
from the questions themselves, but from trying to find something that
was "me". That was before I started finding things that really worked
well for me. Music, writing, creative processes. These things allowed
me to make it through my "lonely" years without going crazy. If I read
some of the things I wrote from then it looks like I was crazy, but I
realize that by writing poems, stories, songs and whatever else I was
expressing and getting out of me the things that would have made me
actually crazy. Another case where each person must find his own way.
I wish I would have grown up in a house where I had the choice of
religion or not. I was forced into it. I always questioned things in
church and sunday-school, and was eventually forced out of the church.
Not because they didn't "like" me, but because I asked too many hard
questions. My parents and grandparents thought that I was possessed or
something and spent years trying to "wear me down" and convince me to
stop asking questions. Eventually I did stop asking 'them', but I never
stopped questioning myself or the rest of the world.
I also had a number of bad experiences with religion and religious
people throughout my life that have convinced me that religion is simply
a tool some people use to convince themselves of their own immortality
and morality. My grandmother constantly misquoted the bible for any
conversation. It was always about what she wanted (funny how the bible
has been used throughout history this way), it was always, "Jesus wants
you to have short hair." (I won this conversation by telling her to find
me one pictoral representation of Jesus with short hair and then she
could get back to me. No wonder they thought I was a smartass.) or
"Jesus wants you to come to church." or some such non-sense. I have a
real hard time believing that grandma would know what Jesus wanted. She
lied constantly to the people around her and begged pity constantly,
even from strangers. Anyway, my opinion on religion is: if it works for
you fine, just leave me out of it. I won't beat you over the head with
my views (but I may express them), and you don't beat me over the head
with yours.
I never tell anyone to stop going to church if that is what they like,
yet I am constantly told that I need to start going to church or I will
forever burn in flame. My wife understands me, she also grew up in an
environment like that. She also has a hugely negative opinion of
religion (as a result of her completely insane grandmother, who uses the
bible as a basis for her theory that the entire government is out to get
her. Pretty clever huh?) We don't tell religious people they are nuts,
unless they prove it to us.
During one brief period of my life (when I was a late teen) I decided to
give religion a serious go. I was going to be just a pious as the
people in my family. I did all the rituals, the praying, the
learning.... And you know what? It was the most absolutely miserable
time of my life. I hated myself, I hated the people around me, I hated
the church, I hated god for making the world such a mess, I started
sounding like the religious nuts that always blame every problem on god,
"Why would god allow this to happen?". Finally I gave it up. I went
back to questioning things I might find an answer to. And I've
constantly been getting happier ever since. (With the occasional dip
into sadness, but life is a balancing act.)
>
> >Maybe someday
> >I'll find my answer.
>
> You will.
I hope so.
>
> ></philosophical rant>
> >
> >OK, waaaaaaay off topic, and perhaps not relevant completely to the
> >discussion at hand. But you said that people that bitch and moan
> >without offering any possible solution are the ones you consider
> >sociopaths. My solution isn't easy, but it isn't an easy problem.
>
> I never asked for any easy solution. If you'd had easy solution, I
> probably would have laughed at you;-)
I would laugh at myself if I had an easy solution. If something sounds
too good to be true....
>
> >It
> >goes way beyond government in my opinion.
>
> It does. But government is still part of it. You can't exclude it.
I don't completely exclude it, I just don't focus on it.
>
> >And I feel we need to start
> >somewhere other than government. That's my view.
>
> And in my veiw, we need to address the problems on all
> fronts...because all things in the nature are connected.
Absolutely, all things are connected. But, politics and government are
not my strong suit. I spend a day thinking about politics and start to
go nuts. I see how insignificant anything I try to do is, and it
frustrates the hell out of me. I realize some people feel differently
about it, but I don't (and probably never will) focus on government. It
isn't my thing, much like religion.
Having said that, in ten years I'll probably find myself in political
office spouting my views on TV (if that happens, I'm sure my wife will
laugh me out of our home).
>
> >Perhaps not the
> >happiest view in the world. But putting up the happy face when you see
> >things suck isn't going to change it. Questioning why it sucks, and
> >trying to fix it may....
>
> And maybe part of the reason why it sucks is because of something in the
> eye of the beholder. If so, you need to fix that first.
I couldn't agree more. I constantly question myself (every bit as much
as I question everything else). In your opinion (I'm guessing this is
what you are hinting at) it is a huge deficiency in me that I ignore
government (I know, I pay taxes and the other 'have tos' but you get the
idea). I really don't see the point in getting involved. My father has
voted in every election he has ever had the opportunity to vote in, and
you know what? He has not once voted for someone that won. He has not
once supported a stance that one (in local, law deciding votes). He has
not once picked a winner on any ballot. And it frustrates the hell out
of him. He and I are not so different. I never got involved in
politics at all (no voting) because I know I would be in the same boat.
I don't need to spend countless hours every election year beating myself
up for always picking a loser. It isn't productive, it accomplishes
nothing, and that vote in the end, meant nothing. I guess if this is a
'problem' in me, it's one that I have to deal with. I've made it this
far, and quite honestly am happier than I've ever been in life. I try
to do what I can, but I don't want to waste my time (and it is something
I consider a waste, even if it isn't a waste to you) with politics.
Perspective is a wonderful thing. As I've said before.
>
> Perry
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 26 Jul 2000 10:25:40 -0600
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
[snip]
> INTEGER I
> INTEGER F
> INTEGER S
> INTEGER N ; Rem THERE, is that better?
>
> > > F=0
> > >
> > > for N = 1 to S) ; Rem Process 1 byte at a time
> > > F = (F*256) + (I MODULO 256) ; Rem Get low-order 8 bits
> > > I = I / 256 ; Rem right shift 8
> > > next N
> > >
> > > return
[snip]
> Did I, or did I not say that I have not used BASIC in 17 years.
> Go get a 1980's Apple ][ or ][+ and try it.
You'd need to uppercase all the reserved words and number the lines
first. :)
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: LOREN PETRICH, CRYPTO-COMMIE
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:30:45 -0400
Tim Palmer wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Loren Petrich wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Petrich is the classic crypto-commie.
> >>
> >> To a resident of certain groves of birch trees, maybe.
> >>
> >> And yes, I mean John Birch trees :-)
> >
> >You write like a paranoid conspiracy nut.
> >
> >By the way, you STILL haven't answered the question about how your
> >ideology differs from the communists.
> >
> >We're waiting! [tapping foot].
>
> Its' like i sedd. Lienux zellates are commy's.
I'm a libertarian.
Petrich is the Apple-infatuated communist.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Another one of Lenin's Useful Idiots denies reality
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:31:33 -0400
"Clell A. Harmon" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:43:56 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >"Clell A. Harmon" wrote:
>
> >> >Denial ain't just a river in Egypt....
> >>
> >> I suppose you wrote this joke too Aaron?
> >
> >Are you an idiot
> >
> >a) no
> >b) yes
>
> Oh no, now he thinks he's invented the dumb-fuck poll joke.
>
> Put your shrink on danger money Aaron...
How much are you willing to pony up?
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: No wonder Hackers love Linux
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 26 Jul 2000 10:34:08 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] () writes:
> On 25 Jul 2000 13:19:51 -0600, Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Install RedHat 6.2, Suse 6.4, Slackware 7, Mandrake 7.1, or any number
> >of others, running the default FTP server and your box will be rooted
> >as soon as a kiddie sees it. (ie, read up on wu-ftpd "Providing Root
>
> ...been running Mandrake, Redhat & Slackware with the default FTP
> configurations for over 5 years, including under a static IP address
> and domain name.
>
> If I've been rooted due to my ftpd configuration, then the script
> kiddies in question have been rather discrete.
You've been lucky then. 2 members of our Linux user's group have been
rooted with the latest wu-ftpd exploit. One was a box on a cable
modem, the other was a work desktop machine. Neither user had ever
used the FTP service on their machines; it was only on because their
distributions turned it on.
Do you want to publicly post your static IP address right now to see
how secure your box is? :)
> [deletia]
>
> Telnet, OTOH is a cracker magnet.
I can't remember the last time any Linux telnet daemon had a hole...
(even so, the first thing I do with *any* Linux box I touch is to turn
off *everything* but openssh and perhaps identd or sendmail (sigh))
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:33:38 -0500
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
[a bunch of useless shit about his superiority]
Are you "following" me around here?
I'm not out to win any prizes. And I sure as hell don't give a shit
about your approval. Get over yourself. And learn to follow your own
advice (give other opinions a fair chance, even if they aren't the same
as yours).
My day is shitty enough. I don't need you "looking down your nose" at
me. And your constant string of attempted "teaching" me (a person you
obviously consider far beneath you on the scale of intellect) isn't
helping my opinion of you. Maybe I saw more of your point than you are
willing to admit. The fact that I didn't use your words doesn't change
that. And telling me how I'm a dumbass repeatedly just adds more
credence to my original argument with you.
I asked you to tell me why you accused me of the things you did, you
refused and threw up your arms in disgust saying I was clouding the
issues. Now you follow my postings with "nice going pupil, perhaps
someday you will be as knowledgeable as me" shit. Nice.
FUCK OFF ASSHOLE! I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF YOUR KIND.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: "Spud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:39:01 -0700
[snips]
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Platform-endian to neutral conversions and back, however, are very
> > handy things. Example: I have to send data from a big-endian box
to a
> > middle-endian box; what use is a big-to-little endian here? None
at
> > all. However, a halfway well written snippet of C code with a
defined
> > neutral format doesn't care what the endianness of the platform
it's
> > compiled on is, it just works. :)
>
> Try dumping a jpeg from a big-endian platform onto tape, and then
> loading it up onto a little-endian platform, and get back to me.
Simple; write it out in an endian-neutal format, and have your
conversion routines convert to whatever's native. I've done lots of
this sort of thing, the mechanics are pretty basic.
------------------------------
From: Seán Ó Donnchadha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:39:03 -0400
Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Why? Product tying is still illegal.
>
OK, but where is the law that defines what may or may not go into the
product called Windows?
>
>A browser and an operating system are different products.
>
Then why is every operating system vendor except Microsoft allowed to
include a browser?
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