Linux-Advocacy Digest #341, Volume #28 Thu, 10 Aug 00 14:13:11 EDT
Contents:
Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: No Gnome for me :-( (OSguy)
Re: Why Linux will crash and burn..... (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Linux...Does Anyone REALLY Care? (John Sanders)
Re: No Gnome for me :-(
Re: Linux = Yet Another Unix
Re: Gutenberg
Re: C# is a copy of java
Re: [Q] Too many distribution? (Oldayz)
Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: GNOME/KDE issues (was: Come on, Jedi, where are you?) (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: No Gnome for me :-( (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company ("JS/PL")
Re: GNOME/KDE issues (was: Come on, Jedi, where are you?) (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Why Linux will crash and burn..... (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Gutenberg (Nico Coetzee)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 17:03:56 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And this
> http://www.netcraft.com/survey/developers/intel.html
The fact that the majority of Intel's visible servers run Microsoft
Software is supposed to be surprising??!?!?! Ever hear of the term
"Wintel?" Intel has been in Microsoft's bed for more than a decade;
where have you been?
Did you manage to notice that *even Intel* runs UNIX/Linux servers?
Curtis
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: OSguy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: No Gnome for me :-(
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:18:47 -0500
Ed Cogburn wrote:
> OSguy wrote:
> >
> > Next distro I'm trying is either Suse 7.0 or Debian 2.2 when they are
> > available (Meanwhile I'll see if I can reset my Gnome problems with
> > Redhat's Beta).
>
> On Debian, upgrading GNOME using Helixcode .deb packages was easy. I
> run an automatic upgrade almost everyday. I check ftp.debian.org and
> a place where the GNOME .debs are, with the dselect program, and
> update database, download selected new packages and updated packages,
> install packages, delete .debs and done.
I'm hoping RedHat's version of Gnome on their beta distro will let gnome-1.2
work on my system. Sorry, after my fiasco with helixcode's Gnome on my laptop
(Gnome panel is permanently broken now make gnome unrunnable), I just don't
trust helixcode. In all fairness, I did get a response when I submitted the bug
report, but 'fixed in CVS' doesn't help me until the next version of Gnome.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Why Linux will crash and burn.....
Date: 10 Aug 2000 12:13:32 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>1.The internet has changed from a tool used by nerds to a tool used by
>the average Joe and Jane.
>2. The internet has become a multimedia marketplace. Napster and it's
>video variants have proven this to be fact. Sure the Fed's are trying
>to kill the Nap, but one website in South Africa will take it's place
>and there are 1000 more after that so the Feds will never win.
>
>Where is Linux in all of this? Some half baked Napster clone? Support
>for only the lowest level of sound/video cards?
>
> Where IS Linux?
Among many other places, it is serving up a large percentage of
the content that attracts people that don't mind running
toy OS's that have to be rebooted about every time you
touch them. Eventually they will learn that they don't
have to put up with problems like that.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: John Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux...Does Anyone REALLY Care?
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:55:13 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Do you Lino-Ners really think this is what the public wants?
I guess I just don't put as much time thinking about you as you do
about us. Don't give a damn what you want.
> Claire
--
John W. Sanders
===============
"there" in or at a place.
"their" of or relating to them.
"they're" contraction of 'they are'.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: No Gnome for me :-(
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:42:52 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> That's how we all learn. How do you think I know how hosed up Corel
> is? I made the mistake of buying it.
Same here, I am sorry to say. The Installation CD was defective not
mountable under linux, BSD, DOS, or Windows. The dealer would not stand
behind the product they were selling and Corel refused any help. I
contacted Corel about the problem that day after the purchase and they
failed to respond. I finally got a response two weeks ago to an email that
I sent them back eight/nine months ago a day or two after the purchase.
What was I told? That my 30-days of free support was up and that if I
wanted any action on my problem I had to pay for it.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.alpha
Subject: Re: Linux = Yet Another Unix
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:08:08 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
John Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> What UNIX for the home market was this and what date was it available?
> By home market, I'm assuming the 8088. That was the first PC when UNIX
> was already in existance. If no one did UNIX for the 8088, then when
> for the '286?
> If not the '286, then when for the '386? And this was from who?
Xenix, for one it came from Microsoft at the time. It was available for the
Z-80 maybe the 8080 as well this all predated the IBM PC be several years.
Xenix was then ported to the 8086 and 8088 before the existance of the IBM
PC.
There were other unix or unix like OS for the 8080/Z-80, 6800, and 6502.
Even today we still have Minux that can run on an 8086/8088.
The problem was that those unix and unix like OS's were very costly. The
typical cost of a unix for a 8-bit microcomputers adjusted to present day
dollars was about $3,000-$7,000.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Gutenberg
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:41:27 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Except for the wee problem that Gutenberg's innovations weren't worth
> jack. The inventor of the *book* is the one who revolutionized writing.
> Prior to him, Gutenberg's innnovation was used to print the Same Old
> Shit; illuminated bibles and indulgences. Once you change the context
> that way, it's hard to see Gutenberg as an "extraordinary innovator".
Before the moveable type printing press book and scrolls before them had
existed going back into several thousand year B.P. as well as the
precursors of the printing press; however, book were in general hand copied.
Which would introduce generational errors with every copy. It was a error
prone, slow and costly job to duplicate books. If a section of a certain
plate got worn, the entire plate would have to be replaced. Books were rare
and expensive. Except for a lettered few the public was illiterate.
There were some printed books predating the moveable type press but in those
cases the plates for the entire pages had to be carved or graven at a time.
A one thousand page book would need one thousand unique plates that would
not be reusable for other works. This was a little faster but not enough to
make books cheap enough for them to be other that rare oddities of the rich
and powerful.
Then thanks to the development of the moveable type press, with plates
replace with frames holding type together and being able to build a page out
of individual type elements as needed and being able to cast more of them if
a page requires more than is currently available. If the type element of a
certain letter on a page is getting to worn, take it out of the frame
replace it with a fresh one and toss the old one into the bucket of lead to
be melted for casting more type when it is needed. Finally it was possible
to mass produce books and it was a revolution.
Books as a result have become a commodity and has lead us to the point that
many today take literacy for granted.
> And this example is especially instructive if you realize that modern
> computers are now also largely used to do the Same Old Shit that could
> be done with paper
Yep, you are right. We sure could control unmanned space probes with paper
and pencil. Who can't remember all the great photorealistic 3D images the
were made from paper and pencil? And then there are all the special effect
in the movies and on T.V. that were made with paper without the need for
physical models. Then there are the mathematical models that take millions
or billions of calculations that were done easy as pie with just paper.
If you can not see the errors in your article then you are no prometheus,
antemetheus would be a better account name for you.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: C# is a copy of java
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:13:31 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Donal K. Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8muc6t$7qt$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Not in general, alas. I'm working with systems that have huge memory
> requirements (I easily run out of space on SGI Origins when analysing
> large asynchronous bus models) and to keep the space down I'm having
> to share references to substantial data values between many places.
> The two alternatives are either to reference count (which is what I
> do) or to duplicate (when the whole lot blows my swap space out of the
> water even on a small design.)
>
> If you wish to disagree, perhaps you could suggest what algorithms
> would be suitable for an asynchronous hardware simulator and model
> checker capable of handling a full microprocessor? It would be
> interesting to see what you come up with! :^P
It sounds as though your solution is to use a variation of global variables
in dynamic memory. That can be easily handled by a library of routines that
control access to the global dynamic memory varaible which in turn call the
standard dynamic memory library routines. This way only those allocations
that need support of a memory manager will be suffer the overhead, the
remainder will just use the standard library routines.
If you are allocating many small block of memory have you looked into using
a aggragate dynamic memory allocation algorithms to save on memory usage
overhead?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Oldayz)
Subject: Re: [Q] Too many distribution?
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 17:21:30 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 00:53:35 +0900, JongAm Park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Well, I checked the Mandrake Linux for my latest Linux. I usually
>upgrade
>the kernel but this time I need to have bootable Linux CD, so I chose
>one.
>And I get to have some question about Linux, although I started using
>Linux
>in 1992.
>
>1. When I read info. about major Linux distribution, RedHat, Suse,
>Caldera,
>Mandrake, Debian, I coudn't find significant difference among them.
>Well, they are the same Linux with different their-own easy-to-use
>maintenance
>programs.
>Don't you think that they are virtually same?
If they were virtually the same, they wouldn't exist. There's an
environmental pressure on each of the smaller distro's, they need
to offer something superior to RH or Suse to get people to use them,
because if people don't have a particular reason to use mandrake,
they'll use RH. If people don't use smaller distro's, maintainers
will abandon them eventually. So, there's as many distros as there
needs to be, no less, no more. Okay, maybe it's not perfectly true,
but it's as close as we can get.
>
>3. No-standard-UI-environment-available can hurt Linux, can't it?
>
>Well, we like diversity. Linux offers diversity. I like WindowMaker.
>Some people like other window managers. Nowadays, people like desktop
>managers.
>Some of them are GNOME, KDE, etc. Some people like different one, like
>GNUstep. ( Well, WindowMaker and GNUStep development looks to be a lot
>slower than GNOME and KDE. People only say GNOME and KDE. At least it
>looks
>so. )
>But, don't we need a standard environment?
>Without a standard environment, drap&drop cannot be implemented, or
I don't want drag and drop.. I think it's useless eye candy.
GNOME and KDE are 2 standard environments, and they have drag and drop
and whatever else. I use WindowMaker, which still haven't reached 1.0
release, and it is moving very slow. But, does it need to be imroved?
Does it crash on you? Is there some seriously missing functionality?
KDE and GNOME are environments, and there's alot of things that can
be improved in them. WM is a window manager, and as far as it goes,
it's fairly complete.
>people should write any desktop-app integration codes for every
>environment!
>
>I understand that there is an eazel project for making a standard
>Linux user environment. But.. will major Linux distributors
>support it?
>
>Just curious.
>
>Regards,
>JongAm Park
>
>--
>Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition
>from mediocre minds."
> - Albert Einstein
>
--
Andrei
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 17:20:53 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> and this...and this....and this...
> Netscape? Don't they HATE microsoft?
-- [URLs snipped] --
> Sun?
> http://www.netcraft.com/whats/?host=www.sun.kz&port=80
>
> Compaq.
> http://www.netcraft.com/survey/developers/compaq.html
I post almost exclusively via Deja News. Gee, I wonder what they run??
http://www.netcraft.com/whats/?host=www.deja.com
I book my flights via Yahoo Travel:
http://www.netcraft.com/whats/?host=travel.yahoo.com
They interface with Travelocity:
http://www.netcraft.com/whats/?host=www.travelocity.com
Thank God for choices; sites that are critical to me personally tend to
run UNIX derivatives. I guess they prefer known stability over glitter
& empty promises.
Curtis
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GNOME/KDE issues (was: Come on, Jedi, where are you?)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:28:32 -0500
Matthias Warkus wrote:
> Maybe this is different in other countries... Maybe somewhere people
> think that Linux == GNOME, who knows. Maybe there's even some fairy
> tale land somewhere where nobody thinks that GNOME and/or KDE are
> window managers, and where people know that saying "program X runs
> under GNOME" or "program Y runs under KDE" is as absurd as saying that
> "program Z runs under xosview", and most importantly: where people
> know that there are multiple desktop projects, that they are not
> religions, and that running some GNOME programs such as the panel does
> not prevent you from starting KDE programs and vice versa.
Nicely put, but you just as well say, "Maybe there is some fairy tale
land where people know that running either Linux or Windows (depending
on what they run) doesn't necissarily mean you are a complete dumbass
bastard whore...." While it's an interesting sentiment, it isn't going
to happen. The entire idea seems to be against everything 'people' hold
dear.
Anything can be a religion. All it requires is blind faith,
narrow-mindedness, and a complete inability to accept other points of
view. There you go, all set.
It would be neat if the religion inspired flamewars didn't erupt daily
on usenet/slashdot/any public forum, but don't hold your breath waiting
for it.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: No Gnome for me :-(
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:32:09 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > That's how we all learn. How do you think I know how hosed up Corel
> > is? I made the mistake of buying it.
>
> Same here, I am sorry to say. The Installation CD was defective not
> mountable under linux, BSD, DOS, or Windows. The dealer would not stand
> behind the product they were selling and Corel refused any help. I
> contacted Corel about the problem that day after the purchase and they
> failed to respond. I finally got a response two weeks ago to an email that
> I sent them back eight/nine months ago a day or two after the purchase.
> What was I told? That my 30-days of free support was up and that if I
> wanted any action on my problem I had to pay for it.
Sounds about like them. Believe me, I was very happy to dump Corel
after one day of 'trying' to get it to work. Glad I still had my
SuSE/Mandrake/Caldera/Debian CDs laying around.
Support from a company like Corel is like support from Microsoft. Push
the problem until your 'time is up' and then tell you it's time to pay
before we can help you. Good way to make money in the short term.
Terrible way to keep customers around.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:45:31 -0400
Reply-To: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> Thank God for choices; sites that are critical to me personally tend to
> run UNIX derivatives. I guess they prefer known stability over glitter
> & empty promises.
For now they might but IIS is becoming known for speed and cost
effectiveness, soon everyone will come around. Such as this 440,879
transaction per second benchmark that was triple the performance of Oracle
running on a Sun Microsystems cluster, at one-third the price.
http://www.ibm.com/Press/prnews.nsf/jan/88A210640A20DAEC85256913007828C1
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GNOME/KDE issues (was: Come on, Jedi, where are you?)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:01:13 -0300
Matthias Warkus escribió:
>
> It was the Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:51:21 GMT...
> ...and Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Like I said in my talk about GNOME at LinuxTag 2000: The peaceful
> > > competition between KDE and GNOME is one of the best things that ever
> > > happened to the free software community.
> > >
> > > (No matter how many KDEers try to reason that GNOME is useless and
> > > should vanish...)
> >
> > And no matter how many GNOMEs try to call us crooks and want us to
> > go away.
>
> Whatever the facts are, I've never heard any GNOME head honcho say
> that KDE should close down the shop (I'm not talking about the
> hundreds of raving loony Slashdotters who think they're cool when they
> claim that they "boycott KDE" and want to have the project shut down
> or something).
Well, you don't have a @kde.org email address, or you would have heard.
I still get DAILY about 5 emails insulting me for being a vocal KDE
advocate. Ever got that kind of thing from KDE users/developers?
I have been getting that for 3 fucking years already.
> At this and the previous LinuxTag, we heard KDE people,
> including major contributors, say things along the line of "there is
> no real need for two desktops", "KDE is the standard", whatever...
> Makes me puke, just like the licensing discussions where people try to
> invalidate all KDE efforts by shouting "non-free, non-free" all over
> the place. Obviously the world would be better if KDE wouldn't depend
> on anything non-GPL (it would save lots of bandwidth if nothing else),
> but I can live with the status quo.
How abou this: I have never seen a KDE guy go and actively troll the
gnome
development IRC channel for two weeks asking anyone who joined "wouldn't
you prefer to join KDE instead?" and whining about the evil GNOME.
I have seen Miguel do exactly that in #kde.
I have never seen any KDE guy call GNOME a threat against freedom, and
I have seen RMS (your ideological leader?) say that about KDE.
I have never seen many things done by KDE guys I have seen GNOME guys
do.
> These days still, some KDEers exhibit a strange "we were first, your
> effort is pointless" attitude (as could be witnessed numerous times in
> this newsgroup alone), while the "we are free, your effort is
> pointless" faction among GNOME fans is now as good as extinct, and
> AFAIK there were never any "officials" agreeing with that kind of
> statement.
Except, say, Miguel? And Elliot Lee? And... well, should I look into
the secret gnome-private archives? ;-)
Yes, there are some very reasonable GNOME developers. Say, Raph and
Havoc. There are also a bunch of loonies, leaded by Miguel.
Besides, I will just say what I said when GNOME was created: doing a Qt
clone would have been smarter. And the reason given ("bad choices") has
been largely discredited. Specially because of never saying what those
bad choices were.
In that sense, GNOME indeed has been (IMHO) useless effort. The stated
goal
( RMS: "we started GNOME to counter the terrible KDE threat to our
freedom" ) could have been achieved 20 times easier.
> However, this could all be purely subjective, after all, I only state
> the impressions that we, i.e. some of the GNOME booth personnel, had,
> even if some passers-by agreed, too; it would be interesting to run a
> poll on a neutral site about whether which of the both projects people
> perceive to be more arrogant, if any. Maybe people would be
> considering GNOME too noisy and "corporate" because the news sites
> have been running countless articles about Helix GNOME, Nautilus and
> Evolution, articles which were published outside of the project's
> responsibility; also, our new Web site is disliked by many as it's
> lost the cute, GNOMEish look that the old one had. And among our
> ranks, too, there surely are people as obnoxious as Ralf Nolden who
> claims that KDevelop's ability to set up a code skeleton for an empty
> GtkWindow is "full GNOME support"... (Linux Magazin 09/2000).
That's just as much support as it has for Qt development, you know.
Except for the dialog generator, which is simulated using a swallowed
glade,
if you want.
And, oh, isn't that, even if you call it lame, a heck of a lot more
support for GNOME than any analogous GNOME tool has for KDE?
IMHO, Ralf and the kdevelop guys have been very open. They don't want
to force the users of kdevelop (isn't it the best IDE for linux?)
to follow their own choices. Show me a GNOME project that has the
same openmindedness?
> Oh, and don't get me started on the media. Stuff like book authors
> claiming that "The graphical user interface for Linux is KDE" makes me
> wish for an assault gun. But the KDE dominance is already faltering in
> Germany; at LinuxTag 1999, of all machines sporting a desktop
> environment, maybe 20% were GNOME (maximum), the rest were KDE. At
> LinuxTag 2000, the ratio was about fifty-fifty (both rough estimates).
> I also seem to observe that in the newsgroups, the number of newbies
> who automatically equate Linux with KDE (those were starting to be a
> real pain in the behind) is slowly dropping again. The 1.2 release and
> Helix's packaging are doing us a lot of good, I've experienced that
> most of the complaints people had about GNOME at our booth were about
> issues that have been fixed in 1.2 while the people still were running
> the 1.0.x that shipped with their distribution.
And everyone running KDE is using a year old version. Think about it.
No visible KDE development for a year, and you are only starting to
catch up.
That, while being backed by the RH billions, the FSF clout...
you should hurry.
> Maybe this is different in other countries... Maybe somewhere people
> think that Linux == GNOME, who knows. Maybe there's even some fairy
> tale land somewhere where nobody thinks that GNOME and/or KDE are
> window managers, and where people know that saying "program X runs
> under GNOME" or "program Y runs under KDE" is as absurd as saying that
> "program Z runs under xosview", and most importantly: where people
> know that there are multiple desktop projects, that they are not
> religions, and that running some GNOME programs such as the panel does
> not prevent you from starting KDE programs and vice versa.
Cool, then shut up. If you throw shit at KDE, I will throw shit
at GNOME, and I have plenty of shit provided by GNOME people to
be able to CHOOSE what shit to throw at you.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Why Linux will crash and burn.....
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 17:59:26 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Thu, 10 Aug 2000 02:39:49 GMT
<8mt4ll$nka$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> > Shit, the damm thing is free and still, nobody I know is using it.
>> > Why is that?
>> >
>>
>> You have no friends?
>>
>
>Claire has lots of friends. Unfortunately, they all share the same body
>with Claire....
So that means they're all into necrophilia, then?
Kinky. :-)
(j/k)
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- can we get any more disgusting here? :-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:03:56 +0200
From: Nico Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Gutenberg
Richard wrote:
>
> "R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" wrote:
> > Which was all the more remarkable considering that he was a butcher
> > by trade. The key is that an ordinary person came up with some
> > extraordinary innovations.
>
> Except for the wee problem that Gutenberg's innovations weren't worth
> jack. The inventor of the *book* is the one who revolutionized writing.
> Prior to him, Gutenberg's innnovation was used to print the Same Old
> Shit; illuminated bibles and indulgences. Once you change the context
> that way, it's hard to see Gutenberg as an "extraordinary innovator".
>
> And this example is especially instructive if you realize that modern
> computers are now also largely used to do the Same Old Shit that could
> be done with paper, especially so when you're talking about computers
> in schools supposedly meant to teach children about New Things.
This is the greatest nonsense anyone has ever posted.
--
=========================================================
This signature was added automatically by Linux:
.
QOTD:
"Lack of planning on your part doesn't consitute an emergency
on my part."
------------------------------
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