Linux-Advocacy Digest #424, Volume #28 Tue, 15 Aug 00 16:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company (Joe Ragosta)
Re: OS advertising in the movies... (was Re: Microsoft MCSE)
Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: So ya' wanna' run Linux?...I have a bridge for sale in Bklyn..... (Craig Kelley)
Re: It's official, NT beats Linux (?) (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: So ya' wanna' run Linux?...I have a bridge for sale in Bklyn..... (Craig Kelley)
Re: MCSE != Engineer (Was: Microsoft MCSE ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: OS advertising in the movies... (was Re: Microsoft MCSE) (2:1)
Re: AMD's Sledgehammer (Craig Kelley)
Re: So ya' wanna' run Linux?...I have a bridge for sale in Bklyn..... ("Nigel
Feltham")
Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company (Matthias Warkus)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joe Ragosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:13:57 GMT
In article <8nbqhg$7hk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Mike Byrns"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Joe Ragosta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chris Wenham
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > >>>>> "Arthur" == Arthur Frain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >
> > > >> W2K DC is supposed to far better - would you both not hope?
> > >
> > > > But according to Bill Gates everybody that buys W2K because it's
> > > > more reliable is stupid:
> > >
> > > With all due respect for the devil, I think Bill was making an
> > > observation. "Less bugs" does not sell as well as "More features"
> > > does.
> >
> > Actually, he went further. In the same interview, he claimed that
> > Windows does not have bugs.
>
> Post the article to backup your claim. I doubt it says anything of the
> sort.
>
>
It's been posted here many times. You can also find a link on my web
site.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS advertising in the movies... (was Re: Microsoft MCSE)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:21:18 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Rob Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:399947d6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Actually, its magma when its underground, and lava when it come out on the
> surface (courtesy of the discovery channel)
Correct. That is what I meant by magma becoming lava. The exposure to the
surface environment causes it to begin cool and solidify, as well as the
heat of the molten lava and exposure to the atmosphere, water, topsoil,
trapped humans, etc causes chemical reactions within the once magma now lava
that also changes it nature.
(courtesy of school library while in the second grade) ;-)
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:50:17 -0300
Nathaniel Jay Lee escribió:
>
> OK, this all started with me saying basically 'let's be careful' and it
> escalated from there.
>
> I understand your point of view in this, I'm just saying my point of
> view is just as valid as yours or the people that have no clue what
> Linux is.
Sure. I am not saying any opinion is illegitimate :-)
> I realize I sound like a freak because of the way this conversation is
> going. One major problem I have (and it's my problem to deal with) is
> when people tell me that my perspective doesn't matter. And that's
> basically the vibe I've gotten here. We should just shut up if we feel
> that we shouldn't do what Corel has done to the base Linux system.
No, you should not shut up. You should say more constructive things,
or even better, do things.
> I have my opinion, you have yours. We are arguing in circles at this
> point because it seems (and I may be wrong here) that you are saying I
> have no right to express my opinion on this matter. And I'm trying to
> say that my opinion on it is no less valid than any other. The
> discussion is fragmenting and turning into a big mess. So, before we
> turn it into another pointless name calling session (check out the
> programming thread that ran forever for what I'm talking about) why
> don't we just say "Draw!" and be done with it.
Fine by me.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:51:19 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Gary Hallock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:21:08 -0400
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
>>
>> Because it is more trouble than its worth at this moment, since my
>> machine has to have Windows for professional reasons. I have a Linux
>> box at work (an old Gateway laptop which I wanted to use as a server)
>> but that hasn't panned out due to non-technical issues. Mostly I just
>> use Solaris and some HP-UX on workstations.
>>
>
>It is easy to install Linux as a second OS and dual boot.
Not that easy. One problem is that many Windows machines have
a single gigantic partition; installing a new operating system
in addition to Windows would require backup, repartitioning,
and restore, or a "magic" tool such as FIPS or Partition Magic.
While such a tool works for Win95/98/98SE, it won't work for
NT or Win2k AFAIK, since the file system is different (NTFS).
Unless one converts back to FAT, perhaps. (Is that possible?
FAT => NTFS is easy enough, but I don't know about NTFS => FAT.)
One could of course install Linux on an older spare machine, which
is what I ended up doing at work.
>Or use Win4Lin or Vmare.
That wouldn't work too badly, admittedly, from what little I know
of either product. However, there is a 5% or so performance penalty.
But for experimentation, that might be the best course.
>
>>
>> But you seem to have missed my point; I had no need to learn about
>> sticky bits in permissions. Which is why I didn't have them memorized.
>>
>
>No, you missed my point. If you had Linux available, you would not have to
>look tons through of manuals or have things memorized. In the case of the
>sticky bit just typing man chmod would have told you all you wanted to know
>about what the sticky bit and suid bit do
Not on my Redhat 6.0 machine (or 6.2, either). In "man chmod", the
word "sticky" doesn't even show up! "info chmod" fares little better.
"man ls" doesn't mention "sticky", either.
I finally located a reference to the sticky bit using "info ls"
and hitting space twice. However, that particular page doesn't
explain much about it, just that it exists.
>Typing ls would have shown you
>what they "look" like. You see, I have never used the sticky bit myself and
>couldn't remember much about it. Bu it was fast and simple to find out
>since I have Linux running.
A simple perl program does allow for that sort of thing, or a
C program using getgid(), getegid(), getuid(), geteuid(), access(),
and possibly some attempts at file reading and writing.
Presumably, of course, this sort of thing is documented somewhere,
though? Not everyone likes to experiment (a friend of mine
highly prefers documentation to "playing around", as she puts it).
>
>Gary
>
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:01:53 -0300
The Ghost In The Machine escribió:
> >No, you missed my point. If you had Linux available, you would not have to
> >look tons through of manuals or have things memorized. In the case of the
> >sticky bit just typing man chmod would have told you all you wanted to know
> >about what the sticky bit and suid bit do
>
> Not on my Redhat 6.0 machine (or 6.2, either). In "man chmod", the
> word "sticky" doesn't even show up! "info chmod" fares little better.
> "man ls" doesn't mention "sticky", either.
There are two chmod man pages in my system, at least.
Here are some of the things my chmod man pages say:
S_ISVTX 01000 sticky bit
Depending on the file system, set user ID and set group ID execution
bits may
be turned off if a file is written. On some file systems, only the
super-user
can set the sticky bit, which may have a special meaning (e.g., for
directo
ries, a file can only be deleted by the owner or the super-user).
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:15:26 -0500
John Sanders wrote:
> It will also have its own unique name which everyone will know. And
> whatever that name might be, I would like to give it its nick name now:
> DORX.
Would that then mean that there is a 'geek' version of Linux and a
'dork' version of Linux?:-)
I kind of like that idea.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
Subject: Re: So ya' wanna' run Linux?...I have a bridge for sale in Bklyn.....
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 15 Aug 2000 13:29:18 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Typical Linux...And they (the Linonuts) wonder why virtually nobody
> who is a desktop user is migrating to Linux...
Except that Tom's hardware is a Windows site; they aren't "linounuts".
> Sure, throw out your WinModem.
> Throw out your Win Printer.
> Throw out your Win Scanner.
And how do I install Windows on Macintosh hardware again?
> Use half the features of your soundcard.
Only with certain sound cards.
> Use half the features of your video card.
Not really (care to explain?).
[snip more of the same Steve-isms]
Text is how humans communicate. Deal with it.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: It's official, NT beats Linux (?)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:21:17 -0500
mark wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Nathaniel Jay Lee wrote:
> >KLH wrote:
> >>
> >> Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > Mike Marion wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Nathaniel Jay Lee wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Yes, but look at who bought them out. Two "Windows Rocks!" sites
> >> merge
> >> > > > and I don't think we will see a big shift in focus.
> >> > >
> >> > > No kidding... Middle of the front page now: "Prepare your PC for Windows
> >> > > ME." the article says that ME won't be in stores until 9/14 but "it's
> >> > > never too early to begin thinking about and planning for installing the
> >> > > new operating system on your computer." This "Oh geez, MS is going to
> >> > > release something new soon.. we must install it the moment it hits the
> >> > > shelves!" crap makes me want to puke.
> >> >
> >> > Reason # 3,467 for dumping Windows on my systems: I got sick of the *you
> >> > suck if you don't buy everything we put out the first day it's
> >> > available* cram it down your throat and tell you you like it bullshit.
> >>
> >> It is also a similar reason why I despise the entertainment industry.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Kevin Holmes
> >
> >Get into books. They are cheaper, they last longer, and nobody is
> >throwing a hissy fit about buying the latest 'boy-band' type of book.
>
> Except if you _really_ want the next one from author x or y, you need
> to shell out for the hardback, or if you can hold back, then the large-
> page version, then, finally, sometime in the future, the standard
> paperback. It's not that much better.
>
> Or, watch out for the 'ASIMOV' that's really written by someone else.
>
> And so on.
True enough, but a book will entertain you for a lot longer than a movie
or an album. And if you are careful, you can still get 'educational'
entertainment from a book. I'm not too sure about other forms of
entertainment anymore. (I've become a bit jaded to the concept of
educational television, as most of it appears to be more oriented
towards 'political education' which is actually a 'agree with me' type
of brainwashing. <sigh>)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
Subject: Re: So ya' wanna' run Linux?...I have a bridge for sale in Bklyn.....
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 15 Aug 2000 13:37:19 -0600
mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Yes, take XFree86-4, the next version of XFree which is still not prime
> time yet, add to it a driver which is barely supported. You will have
> problems.
Um, no. It works just fine.
$ uptime
1:31pm up 43 days, 18:05, 1 user, load average: 0.12, 0.10, 0.09
XFree86-4.0.1
(II) Module nvidia: vendor="NVIDIA Corporation"
compiled for 4.0.1, module version = 1.0.4
Module class: XFree86 Video Driver
ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.2
Besides, the article was very positive for NVIDIA + XFree86.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MCSE != Engineer (Was: Microsoft MCSE
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:27:59 GMT
The use of the term "engineer" in this instance is probably a violation
of state law as well.
http://www.nspe.org/etweb/17-00feature.asp
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS advertising in the movies... (was Re: Microsoft MCSE)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:33:14 GMT
> > Miles for long distances (esp. on roads)
> > Meters for short measurements, except height.
> > Peoples height in ft/in.
> > Aeroplane height in ft
> > Most weights in Kg
> > Peoples weight in Stone, lbs
>
> How many pounds in a Stone???
14
> > Heavy weights in tons or tonnes (since they're about 5% different)
>
> English Ton vs. Metric Tonne
They're about the same and they're pronounced the same, so...
> > Temperature in deg C
>
> We still use Temp in F. for "the weather" and casual use.
Depends on your age over here. My generation use C. My parents use F
-Ed
--
BBC Computer 32K
Acorn DFS
Basic
>*MAIL ku.ca.xo.gne@rje98u (backwards, if you want to talk to me)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: AMD's Sledgehammer
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 15 Aug 2000 13:45:35 -0600
"Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/12584.html
>
> "AMD's Sledgehammer chip looks like it has hit the ground running. Only
> five days after publishing the instruction set for the new 64bit
> processor, SuSE has announced that it has the GNU gcc compiler and some
> basic parts of the toolchain ready for x86-64, and similar announcements
> are expected from the other Linux distros at LinuxWorld this week."
Of course any Windows advocate will tell you that the as-yet-unseen-
cure-for-everything Windows 2000 Datacenter Professional Server
Bloatware Edition already supports it. :)
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: So ya' wanna' run Linux?...I have a bridge for sale in Bklyn.....
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:59:53 +0100
>Throw out your Winmodem.
Not if it uses a Lucent or PCTel chipset, also it is possible to use the way
a winmodem works (as a soundcard with phone line interface) under linux to
use a computer network as a telephone exchange, routing voice signals around
the network and using the modem as an interface to the normal phone line.
Try doing this easily under windoze. (see www.linmodem.org for details).
>Throw out your Win Printer.
Or install ESS which currently supports over 2000 different printers with
one universal driver (even the usually dreaded lexmark winprinters are
supported). This is supplied in the multiple disc versions of mandrake 7.1
>Throw out your Win Scanner.
If it's SCSI or uses an internal Printer-port to SCSI adaptor then
installing sane should auto-detect the scanner no problem (yet again one
package supports many devices without needing to play around with different
drivers when upgrading devices).
>Use half the features of your video card.
Install Windblows and only support half the refresh rates or display modes
of the hardware ( S3 Trio 64V on windows 800x600 goes up to 72hz, under
linux runs at 90hz - My S3 virge max refresh under win95 is 75hz, runs at
110hz under linux, max resolution under windows is 1024x768 yet runs at
1600x1280 under linux).
>Run a text browser.
Or chose from at least 15 GUI alternatives unlike windoze which goes out of
it's way to stop you using anything except the hopeless crashingly bloated
IE. Also, the ability to use the text browser is useful if unable to start
the GUI due to missing drivers
(try browsing with windoze if the GUI is unable to start).
>TTF and anti-aliased fonts? What are they? Ruin your eyes.
TTF support is available for linux in some (all?) latest versions.
>Run 5 different programs to read mail/news offline.
Chose from over 5 different programs rather being stuck with one pile of
crap which keeps losing access to my newsgroups (outlook express on my pc
keeps removing newsgroups from the list and also often deletes items from
newsgroups which
I am then unable to re-retrieve as it only wants to retrieve new items).
>Spend days setting up an internet connection sharing system.
For single use machines, who needs sharing anyway?
>A wet dream in the minds of the geeks...
>
As opposed to a shite nightmare made of various bits bought or stolen from
other companies ( see any of the various websites with lists of what
companies each bit of most microsoft product were bought or stolen from).
It took me under half an hour to install Mandrake 7.1 at work and get
networking set up on it. When installing win2k on the same machine it kept
detecting 'Unknown device' which did not exist clashing with the netcard and
I had to delete this unknown device after every reboot before it would see
the network. Now that's what I call shite.
On another machine win2k would only install if I removed the netcard
otherwise it hung during install. After wasting a whole day on the install I
then reinstalled the netcard and when win2k detected it there was another
hang which needed a reset. During this next reboot it detected a filesytem
error so I had to waste yet another day reformatting and reinstalling. In
total I wasted 3 days trying to get win2k working on this machine and in the
end had the machine working but having to transfer files using floppy disks
as it was too risky to try to netcard again. Linux installed and configured
on the same machine in under half an hour.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Big Brother and the Holding Company
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:33:45 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Mon, 14 Aug 2000 19:43:00 -0400...
...and Seán Ó Donnchadha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus) wrote:
>
> >> >
> >> > I pointed out ObjectWatch, which is the corporate identity of Roger
> >> > Sessions, an expert in component technology who led the development of
> >> > major pieces of IBM's SOM framework. I also pointed out the recent
> >> > comments of Miguel de Icaza, major contributor to the GNOME project.
> >>
> >> Who, of course are entitled to their unbiased (of course) opinions,
> >> unlike those of us who are biased in another direction.
> >
> >What Miguel likes about Microsoft is that they componentise their
> >software. He often goes nonlinear talking about this kind of thing,
> >and he's not very representative of the project at those times.
> >
>
> Are you saying that Miguel's work on Bonobo and the like - the very
> underpinnings of GNOME - isn't endorsed by the rest of the team?
Actually, this suggestive question does not even deserve an answer.
I'll try to hammer it into your brain anyway. Miguel is just one
person. We've got lots of people with differing opinions in the GNOME
project, even in higher positions (such as Havoc Pennington, for
example). Note that this does not make any of them "good" or "bad".
Bonobo is highly appreciated by most people working for and with the
project, and it's not only Miguel's work. What you must understand is
that it is possible to endorse someone's work and some of his opinions
without enthusiastically acclaiming *everything* he thinks, says and
does.
mawa
--
Q: What's blue and white and sits on the bottom of the ocean ?
A: A fridge wearing a denim jacket.
------------------------------
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