Linux-Advocacy Digest #744, Volume #28 Wed, 30 Aug 00 00:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) (Peter
Ammon)
Re: Inferior Engineering of the Win32 Platform - was Re: Linsux as a desktop
platform (D. Spider)
Why doesnt SuSE and RedHat wait until later this autum? ("Ingemar Lundin")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("JS/PL")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("JS/PL")
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) (Eric
Bennett)
Can you believe this??? (was Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$
Voluntary Split ...)) (Eric Bennett)
Re: So ya' wanna' run Linux?...I have a bridge for sale in Bklyn..... (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("JS/PL")
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) (Courageous)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peter Ammon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:19:09 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> A) I never claimed that intelligence was based "solely" on genetics.
> But...tell me, if you decide to scavange random parts from a
> 1975 AMC gremlin, and a 1935 Volkwagen bug, do you really believe
> that the end result will be something that beats a Ferarri?
Sex is far more screwy than that (no pun intended). Let's compare
people and their genes to a hand in a poker game. If our couple Frank
and Jane survives long enough to reproduce, then they've probably each
got a pretty decent hand, so let's say that Frank is a flush and Jane is
a straight. Now Jane and Frank decide to have a kid, and the boy's hand
will be composed of three cards from Jane and two cards from Frank (Jane
gets an extra card since she has the X chromosome :) )
Take three cards from a straight and two cards from a flush. Does that
give you a good hand? Probably not.
I find the fact that sexual reproduction is a beneficial trait to be mystifying.
>
> B) Of course intelligence is not based on genetics *alone*. The son
> of a tall parents who is malnourished will probably be short. The
> son of smart parents who is brought up in a primative cave will
> probably be an illiterate idiot.
>
> BUT! Genetics determine the *POTENTIAL*, not the outcome.
>
> Now...go into any ghetto, and it is quite apparent that the adults
> who are permanently living there are...at their maximum potential
> (if not exceeding it due to government subsidies).
>
> The point is... you have conceeded, that, just like EVERY OTHER HUMAN
> CHARACTERISTIC, there is genetic linkage for intelligence and
> intellectual potential.
I have a friend who's adopted. His birth parents were rather poor and
couldn't afford to keep him. Fortunately for him, they decided to give
him away, and he was adopted by a middle class family. This kid is very
bright...he taught himself calculus at the age of 15, he was top of his
school in a math competition, he got the highest grade on the chemistry
AP test after studying it on his own. In fact, I'd wager that he's got
a good chance of contributing something major to whatever field he
decides to go into. He's at Cornell now, and he freely admits that had
he been kept by his birth parents, he would not be there today.
There undoubtably is a genetic component to intelligence, and there
undoubtably is some correlation between intelligence and wealth, so it
stands to reason that the children of poorer families aren't as bright,
on average. This is compounded by the fact that poorer families
probably have worse nutrition and health care, both for the pregnant
mother and the baby, which negatively impacts intelligence. But there
are bright children born to poor families...plenty of them. And if we
set up our schools so that those who succeed do so because of the
system, not in spite of it, then everyone wins.
-Peter
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (D. Spider)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Inferior Engineering of the Win32 Platform - was Re: Linsux as a desktop
platform
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 03:20:30 GMT
It appears that on Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:35:53 -0700, in
comp.os.linux.advocacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>D. Spider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> It appears that on Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:56:15 -0500, in
>> comp.os.linux.advocacy "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> >Clearly you haven't used the start menu in many years.
>>
>> I love this bit too, this is classic. Do you know how to read a
>> header? Clearly not. Let me point this out to you... figure out how to
>> tell outhouse express to show you the headers (I would tell you how,
>> but I don't allow such broken software to even sit on my disk, let
>> alone use it, so you'll have to figure out how to do this or ask
>> someone else) and look for the line that says X-Newsreader:. If you
>> still can't figure out why this line is funny, maybe someone else will
>> be kind to you and explain.
>
>O.K. I'll bite on this one.
>
>To view the headers of a message in Outlook Express:
>
>Right click on the message in the message list panel. Select properties
>from the menu that pops up. Click on the details tab and the message's
>header appear in a small application modal dialog box. If you wan't to view
>the headers or the rest of the message in the format that it was or will be
>transmitted without interpretation, click on the view source button.
Ouch, what a hassle. One of many reasons I don't use Outlook Express.
>
>The X-Newsreader header is used my most newsreader software when the message
>is created. This header identifies the newsreader software that the author
>of the message was using and in many cases to OS as well. Your X-Newsreader
>header that you are using Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4113.2400. D.
>Spider's X-Newsreader header shows that he is using Forte Agent 1.5/32.451.
>That is a registered copy of a newsreader software that runs on Microsoft
>Windows. That is the proof of error of your statement that he had not used
>the start menu in many years.
>
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner! That's right. I've been using
microsoft system software since Dos 3, I'm using it right now as I
type this, and this guy claims it's obvious I haven't used it in "many
years." I was rolling on the floor.
#####################################################
My email address is posted for purposes of private
correspondence only. Consent is expressly NOT given
to receive advertisements, or bulk mailings of any
kind.
Since Deja.com will not archive my messages without
altering them for purposes of advertisement, deja.com
is barred from archiving my messages.
#####################################################
------------------------------
From: "Ingemar Lundin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Why doesnt SuSE and RedHat wait until later this autum?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 03:25:31 GMT
SuSE and RedHat will shortly release version 7 of their distros, but (and
fell free to correct me if i am wrong), those will contain little or nothing
new compared to the previous one.
Kernel 2.4, KDE 2.0, GNOME 2.0 (or Helix or whatever...), will all be
released at least 2-3 months from now.
I think it smells Remond style greed to release versions only to keep the
market going (ie. the money), and its not helping Linux to conquer the
desktop market.
Realesing versions that for the last year basicaly havent changed at all
(last major upgrade was Kernel 2.2, KDE 1.1 and Gnome 1.0.something)
/IL
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:20:47 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>JS/PL is not a real person.
Prognosis = Reality Dysfunction.
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:29:06 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Joe R. in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >> [...]
> >> >LOL This demonstrates that you have absolutely no clue Max.
> >>
> >> About taxes? I'll admit I don't know much of the details. As with
most
> >> things, I find that understanding the principles is usually enough
> >> until, for some reason, I'm forced to deal with the details.
> >>
> >
> >And this is classic Max.
> >
> >"I really don't understand what I'm talking about, but I've learned a
> >few of the words involved in the discussion so I'll try to pass myself
> >off as an expert."
>
> Were I as ludicrous and immature as you and 'JS/PL', Joe, I'd be
> immediately forwarding a complaint to your ISP, but I have not done so;
> I'm not at all concerned with your actual misrepresentation of my
> statement, or your sentiments concerning my style of free inquiry.
>
> I will, however, forward such a complete and ensure it is followed up on
> if you should ever so falsely and dishonestly indicate you are quoting
> me ever again. I'll point out that there's plenty of material in the
> thousands of posts I've made which you could take out of context to the
> same effect. But you are indicating and stating that you are quoting
> me, and you are not. If you wish to continue posting to Usenet without
> inconvenience, you will never do so again.
>
> I am, for the record, entirely uninterested in any paltry attempts at
> justification or discussion of this issue on your part, and will
> consider any further quoting of this offending text in any message that
> *you* post to constitute a second offense, and will inform your ISP
> immediately.
I (at times) almost feel sorry for your stupidity Max, I really do. But
every ten posts or so I'm reminded that you don't deserve pity.
------------------------------
From: Eric Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:35:18 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > A) I never claimed that intelligence was based "solely" on genetics.
> > But...tell me, if you decide to scavange random parts from a
> > 1975 AMC gremlin, and a 1935 Volkwagen bug, do you really believe
> > that the end result will be something that beats a Ferarri?
>
> Sex is far more screwy than that (no pun intended). Let's compare
> people and their genes to a hand in a poker game. If our couple Frank
> and Jane survives long enough to reproduce, then they've probably each
> got a pretty decent hand, so let's say that Frank is a flush and Jane is
> a straight. Now Jane and Frank decide to have a kid, and the boy's hand
> will be composed of three cards from Jane and two cards from Frank (Jane
> gets an extra card since she has the X chromosome :) )
>
> Take three cards from a straight and two cards from a flush. Does that
> give you a good hand? Probably not.
>
> I find the fact that sexual reproduction is a beneficial trait to be
> mystifying.
Why, you think it's an advantage for tall people to be smart, and for
short peoples' gene mix better with stupidity? Or vice versa?
--
Eric Bennett ( http://www.pobox.com/~ericb/ )
Cornell University / Chemistry & Chemical Biology
Anybody that wants the presidency so much that he'll spend two years organizing
and campaigning for it is not to be trusted with the office. -David Broder
------------------------------
From: Eric Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Can you believe this??? (was Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a
M$ Voluntary Split ...))
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:38:32 -0400
According to the following article, debt reduction ranks last out of
four items when Americans are asked to rank their priorities for the
surplus.
I suppose this stems from Americans' love of being stuck in cycles of
credit card debt. Now people want to apply this financial
irresponsibiltiy at the national level. I would rather not subsidize
this sort of idiocy with my taxes, thank you very much.
People would rather put the money towards domestic programs, Social
Security, and tax cuts, in that order, before they paying off existing
debts.
<shudder>
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/poll_taxcuts000829.
html
--
Eric Bennett ( http://www.pobox.com/~ericb/ )
Cornell University / Chemistry & Chemical Biology
Anybody that wants the presidency so much that he'll spend two years organizing
and campaigning for it is not to be trusted with the office. -David Broder
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: So ya' wanna' run Linux?...I have a bridge for sale in Bklyn.....
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:51:54 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Steve Mentzer in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>Why bother? The idea behind a winmodem is *cheap* *cheap* *cheap*.
No, its "monopolize, monopolize, monopolize". And that would stand up
in court. There is no direct competitive advantage that MS gains by
slowing their OS down in order to do the modem's work and save the
*hardware* maker's money, and yet they not only go along with it, they
encourage it. And would, I presume, be proven to demand it on occasion,
were it to come to trial. The economic advantage which they wish us to
believe is profit is actually just the lock-in monopoly power they gain
when the customer of the OEM's computer is screwed if he wants to use a
non-Windows OS.
>They are simply ADC/DAC units that have the DSP firmware running on the PC. In
>some ways, it is better because when a new spec revision takes place, you just
>upgrade your driver. No need to flash the unit firmware, no need to replace
>chips.
No ability to use any other OS. If it were a public spec, you might
have a point. But there's a *reason* we put simple processing like
modem overhead in a hardware sub-module, you see.
>In reality, I prefer regular modems, but they are more expensive. A typical
>WinModem costs about $39.00. A typical "standard" modem costs around $59.00.
>
>The average Joe doesn't care if it is "standard". He sees "windows 9x" on the
>box, and saves twenty bux.
People don't get WinModems in a box; they get them in a computer. And
they're being ripped off, and Microsoft is breaking the law (again).
[...]
>They are cheaper than most "standard" printers. The average joe wants to save
>money, not spend it on something he cannot understand.
It doesn't *matter* if it is cheaper for the average joe; he's still
being ripped off, because he's being sold market goods under false
pretenses. In the computer market, you don't buy a printer for a
particular operating system.
[...]
>Oh, I guess my wife using the new USB scanner at home is just a paperweight.
>I'll remember to let her know that when she is sending out scanned pictures of
>my kids to family around the country via email.
>
>And next time I scan in a sales contract for archival purposes (I *do* this
>stuff for real), I will make sure to remember that my scanner is a
>paperweight...
It's not a paperweight, its a ball and chain. I'd mention that USB
would probably be another anti-trust conviction, but you'd no doubt
start ranting about how I'm an extremist flake paranoid commie.
[...]
>>> Use half the features of your soundcard.
>>
>>The PC was never indented to be a hi-fi. Yet I have coupled my 16 bit sound
>card to
>>my hi fi for the odd game. I really do not see your point here...
>
>The PC was never designed for full motion video or DVD decoding either. But
>people are doing it, people like it and they will continue to take advantage of
>technological advances.
>
>I dont see *your* point.
His point is that those few people who actually care to and manage to
get such technology to work consistently are rather atypical. Its tough
to say whether that's because of technical or human deficiencies, or if
its just because, for all the hype, there's not much reason for the
integration of these technological advances into a general purpose
computer.
[...]
>>> Spend days configuring a firewall.
>>
>>Less then 5 minutes actually.
>
>LOL!
>
>If you know what you are doing. The average joe thinks a "port" or what he
>parks his car in and a "packet" is something he gets in the mail.
You make a strong point. The only reason that Linux is not already both
far more capable and much easier to use than Windows is because OEMs are
not at liberty to use the stuff in their products. The average joe
wants a front end on the ports to configure his "security profile" on
the Internet. The software to do that would take an experienced coder
maybe a couple of days to write, if its monstrously more complicated
than I think. It will take the market at least two or three years to
winnow out the chaff and derive a control mechanism metaphor which
allows the end user to both understand and use the capabilities which
Linux already has for firewalling with any degree of confidence, and
another couple years for it to become 'familiar' to everyone enough to
become intuitive.
We can't even get started until Microsoft's illegal monopolization of
the OS pre-load market is stopped.
[...]
>All the others available? Where?
>Lynx is useless for today's WWW.
That depends on what you use the WWW for.
>Netscrape is a joke (and always will be).
>The PC has Opera, Netscrape and IE. All are great browsers. Who needs more?
I do, I do. I need at least twelve more before I could even begin to
think about which one I'd pay someone to maintain for me. They all
suck, at this point.
[...]
>The average joe won't like pine. Not glitzy enough.
>If you like netscrape on Linux, you are a sick person :)
Nets*ca*pe is horrendous for messaging on any system, but I'd use it
rather than Outlook, if I could. Maybe Agent on wine, or I've heard
about this new 'Evolution' thing, but I don't know anything much about
it.
But pine works, once you get used to it. Its better than what a lot of
people had when they learned computers.
[...]
>Plenty of ISP's use WinNT as well. Plenty use BSD. Plenty use Solaris.
>
>Linux support for ISP's is a nightmare. Period..
Is that why they all use it, in overwhelming numbers compared to any one
of the others you mentioned?
[...]
>Try to understand what the average Joe wants, please... :)
The average joe wants to get out from under the monopoly that's been
ripping them off and stifling progress for the last fifteen years!
Please!
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:48:48 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Joe R. in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Said Joe Ragosta in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [...]
> >> >> It certainly not a stupid and unfounded assumption to figure that
> >> >> hiring
> >> >> an accountant would have reduced my tax bill.
> >> >
> >> >Perhaps. You came up with a specific figure. You said an accountant
> >> >could have come up with $4K in extra deductions.
I lying and bullshitting were tax deductible you'd pay NO TAX Max.
> The issue is that you're an idiot, Joe. I don't post to Usenet to "win"
> arguments. I post to *have* discussions. Unfortunately, I'm forced to
> spend most of my time fighting off ankle-biters such as yourself.
You spend most of your time fighting off ankle biters because you attempt to
personally degrade anyone who differs from your warped views of reality. You
have a major problem and I'm sure you already know that. You can't even
escape it in usenet. I'm quite sure the problems you have dealing with
people here are mirrored in real life for you. Here's a hint - take a close
look at yourself and attempt to improve it.
------------------------------
From: Courageous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 04:04:27 GMT
> Take three cards from a straight and two cards from a flush. Does that
> give you a good hand? Probably not.
>
> I find the fact that sexual reproduction is a beneficial trait to be mystifying.
Perhaps because the poker analogy isn't quite right. But
the real question is why isn't cloning preferred, given
that (self) cloning would produce more reliable genetic
progression. The real answer probably has something to do
with diversity in a highly uncertain environment.
C//
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:03:09 -0400
Gary Hallock wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Try repeating Jay's experiments on your own. You would be surprised.
> >
> > My Russian tutor (immigrant) had her own observation. It was just
> > after Columbus Day, and she was telling me about the other day in the
> > store, she asked people who Columbus was, and she was appalled at how
> > many people couldn't give her the correct answer.
> >
>
> And your point would be?
> Look, I can't repeat Jay's experiments, nor can you.
That's nothing but a self-limiting belief.
> That would require that I be a famous celebrity with a national
> TV show.
Are you *sure* that a non-celebrity is incapable of asking
simple questions?
> Don't you think that affects the results?
What...do you think Jay induces stupidity on people he meets?
>
> Gary
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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