Linux-Advocacy Digest #197, Volume #29 Tue, 19 Sep 00 00:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: So did they ever find out what makes windows98 freeze up all the time? (Osugi)
Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT ("James Stutts")
Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux ("Quantum Leaper")
Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT ("James Stutts")
Re: How low can they go...? ("James Stutts")
Re: GPL & freedom ("D'Arcy Smith")
Re: GPL & freedom ("D'Arcy Smith")
Re: Hardware supported list? (David M. Cook)
Re: I'm back! This group has sunk to a new low (Michael Vester)
Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools) ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: The Linux Experience (David M. Cook)
Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools) ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: The Linux Experience (David M. Cook)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Osugi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.windows98
Subject: Re: So did they ever find out what makes windows98 freeze up all the time?
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 02:48:10 GMT
In article <dEwx5.7054$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Greg Topf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmm...dance around and sacrifice a virgin then? That more
appropriate for
> him? Silly me, sharing real experience:)
>
I would be interested in hearing more details about your real
experiences. Of course personal anecdotes do not constitute proof, but
much more detail is necessary before yours could even be considered
hearsay evidence. What are your machines doing? What programs are they
running?
The original poster may have exaggerated a bit, but win9x does seem
fairly unstable, especially compared to NT, Linux, and *BSD, (cannot
comment on BeOS or Mac, as I have no experience with them). It seems a
bit disingenious for MS to claim that system crashes are the result of
third party programs when, IMO at least, a competant operating system
should be able to deal with misbehaving programs. On my home linux
system, for example, Netscape has once or twice in the past crashed
badly enough to kill the x-server, but has never once taken down the
os. On the other hand, on Win98SE Japanese version on my wife's laptop
has, in the last 6 months or so, crashed twice on boot up, and at least
three times while opening LookOut Express. With no other programs
running (except the japanese input program supplied by MS). There have
been other crashes as well, but these are the most mind boggling (I
mean, blue screen on boot!, give me a break).
Much of the time win98 works just fine on that laptop (which has the
stupid "Designed for Windows" sticker) for the limited demands placed
on it. But I would not call it stable. My linux (mandrake 7.1 KDE
workstation, no unnecessary servers running, lots of software from lots
of different sources, K6-2 450, 128 meg) box has come close to crashing
only once - I tried to run Myth 1 for windows in linux using WINE,
which is considered alpha software. Something bad happened and although
I could telnet into the box, the response time was extremely slow and
the hard disk was going nuts, so I cut power. Only one time, and that
on alpha software emulating another operating system.
The very same box (dual boot (win98se) for starcraft and TFC) crashes
fairly often, especially with games.
Like I said, personal anecdotes do not constitute proof. However, from
my personal experience, I would recommend that winvocates be careful
with their claims of stability for the win9x class of os. At best, it
might be stable enough for some people.
--
Osugi Sakae
I will not be filed, numbered, briefed or debriefed.
I am not a number, I am a free man. -The Prisoner
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "James Stutts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:17:27 -0500
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8q5dhg$1sst$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy James Stutts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "C Lund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > <snip>
>
>
> >> Sounds like the difference between W2K and W98 are all "beneath the
hood".
> >> WHich means the Win GUI still sucks the bowel movements of a flyblown
> >> carcass.
>
> > That must explain why so many window managers attempt to replicate it.
>
> "So many" being two. That sure is alot.
>
Out of how many?
JCS
------------------------------
From: "Quantum Leaper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:19:55 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:52:59 GMT, Quantum Leaper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On Sat, 16 Sep 2000 18:40:25 GMT, Quantum Leaper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >"JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >> news:8pua6q$hp6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> >> > : On 15 Sep 2000 03:16:33 GMT, Steve Mading
> >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > :>In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> >> > :>: On 5 Sep 2000 22:17:14 GMT, Steve Mading
> >> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >> > :>:>In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> >> > :>:>
> >> >> > :>:>: Person 7 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >> > :>:>: news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> > :>:>:> On Fri, 26 May 2000 03:16:59 GMT, in
> >comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,
> >> >> > :>:>:> ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The
Machine))
> >> [deletia]
> >> >> > : I shudder to think what you would have done in the 1200 bps era.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The 1200 bps era? I certainly wasn't sitting around thinking,
"gee,
> >> >> > I sure wish I could download a Linux distro - too bad it's only
1990
> >> >> > and it doesn't exist yet."
> >> >>
> >> >> But if the Mandrake distro (1gb) HAD existed.... it would have taken
> >about
> >> >> 100 days of solid downloading to get.
> >> >> I guess thats still faster than transcribing it from a printout.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >The problem is in 1990, I sure there were 2400 bps, and I thought
9600
> >bps
> >> >modems had been out already. Either way it still way too much for a
> >> >regular modem to handle even today, unless you a few days to spare.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> You twits really don't have any clue do you. What makes you think
> >> that just because someone has a DS3 that any particular large download
> >> will necessarily buzz by at 160MegaBYTES a second. The real internet
> >> doesn't necessarily work that way.
> >>
> >The only twit I see is you, how long does it take to download a CD on a
> >56K? I started out with a 300 baud modem in 1985. I have had just
about
>
> No longer than it takes to download the same thing over a DS3
> if any part of the net between you and the files is not up to
> your speed expectations.
>
Very rarely to I have download speed problems since I have moved to a Cable
modem.
> >every speed inbetween, except a 56K modem. I did have a 56K modem but
my
> >house phone lines had to much noise. So don't tell me how long a
download
> >take with modem, I know, DAYS.
>
> So? That's more of a scheduling and contention issue with a
> potentially scarce resource. The actual download is still
> a matter of checking on it every so often and mebbe restarting
> it.
>
Like I said I like to USE my computer, if I was going to download Linux
over a serial modem, I would rather spend the $5 or so and order it online.
You still have to Restart the download manually? I would hate that, I
haven't had problems like that since I got GetRight.
> These issues have been worked out for a long time.
>
> Now, if you use the net "too much" then you already have to deal
> with the contention issues involved with downloading CDs' over
> land lines.
>
If you use the 'net at all, you have to deal with contention issues.
------------------------------
From: "James Stutts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:24:08 -0500
"C Lund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <8q3vp8$qo5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "James Stutts"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Ignorance isn't a virtue, last I checked.
>
> I can agree with that.
>
> > Each OS has a place. I frankly prefer Win2k
> > to Linux on the desktop, primarily for CAD application support. For a
> > generic server
> > for a workgroup, Linux is fine. For a firewall, I prefer OpenBSD. For
a
> > desktop
> > UNIX, I'm partial to SunOS or IRIX. Right tool, right job. Never liked
> > Slowlaris too much. ;)
>
> Same here. I used plain old Sun way back when, and then the University
> switched to Solaris. They rarely had more than two-thirds of the terminals
I managed to find a copy of SunOS 4.1.3 (can't find 4.1.4 to save my life)
on EBay
to *upgrade* my Solaris 7 system.
> up and running at a time after that, and the apps kept crashing and the
That's more of a system admin problem, I should think. Unless that was
Solaris 2.1.
Amazing how often people claim NT is bloated (it is), yet excuse huge
installs for Solaris
and the like....
> terminals kept hanging.. Bp
Up to Solaris 2.5, Solaris 2 was garbage.
>
> But that could be caused by the sysops and not the OS.
>
> SGI otoh, has *never* crashed on me. But it does tend to hang when a
> terminal on the same network is being booted.
Linux has a place (I'm about to deploy a bunch of RH6.2 systems), but for a
"solid"
feeling to a system, a Sun or SGI beats Linux hands down. For something
that needs
to be really cheap, really fast, and isn't used on a personal (sitting on
your desk) level,
Linux is perfect. If you can't use any of the x86 BSDs.... ;)
JCS
------------------------------
From: "James Stutts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:28:10 -0500
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said James Stutts in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
<snip>
> >Incompatibility? In what way? Our NT clients can communicate quite
easily
> >to our Linux servers.
>
> Not the prosaic way you're thinking of, certainly. If I am
> inconvenienced by having to *avoid* a monopoly; if I have to even think
> for a moment about having to *work around them*, and I would, since I
Welcome to the real world. That situation exists in more than just this
industry.
Frankly, how are you inconvenienced? If you don't want to use their stuff,
you have plenty of alternatives. What you you having to avoid here?
> serve a large market which is still locked in to the monopoly, it is
> costing me money.
Then get out of that market. You at least seem to think the world should
conform to you.
JCS
------------------------------
From: "D'Arcy Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: GPL & freedom
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:34:32 GMT
"Zenin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> The changes however, are mine, I made them, and therefor just like
> the original author I have the right to choose if and how those
> changes are given to anyone.
No you do not (in the case of GPL).
> The point is *other* people have NO
> RIGHT whatsoever to be telling ME what I must do with MY WORK.
Yes they do (in the case of the GPL).
> I may well give them back to the community, but the choice should be
> MINE as it's MY WORK.
If you wanted to derive work off of GPL work then you have to
abide by the wishes of the original author(s). he original author(s)
said "you can do what you want with this as long as the source
for any derived works is available to everyone".
If you do not want to release the source for your derived
work then do not try to benefit from GPL software.
---
Your position that the GPL loks in the original authors does
not make any sense. If I develop a brand new bit of code from
scratch and choose to make it GPL then that is my choice.
Nobody forces people who are starting from scratch to release
their code under GPL.
> What it explicitly does *not* do is make the decision for you (as a
> user) as to how you must license *your* work (extensions, whatever).
> It only cares about itself, as it should.
Right - which means that it isn't as "free" as the GPL since you can
take your extensions away from the rest of the community.
> So...at version 10, the author can release version 1 under any
> license he likes...
Or the author can base version 1 GPL off of version 1 non-GPL and
then do what they like with version 1 non-GPL.
> Like I said, for a project of any size it is completely impossible
> for the original author to reuse their own code in a non-GPL manner.
Wrong - see above.
You cannot merge other peoples changes to the GPL version back
into the non-GPL version without their permission.
> Ah, but code isn't denied them. BSD code in a GPL work should cause
> no problems.
Derivitives can be denied.
> I want my code to be part of the "software market". Do what you
> want, just don't sue me and spell my name correctly. If you make a
> million bucks off it, more power to you; buy me a cup of coffee some
> day to pay me back...but only if you choose to.
Then don't use GPL.
..darcy
------------------------------
From: "D'Arcy Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: GPL & freedom
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:37:28 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:aCrx5.2575$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> No. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the GPL *OTHER* than the fact
> that it claims to enforce some kind of freedom which it doesn't. The
issue
> here is the hypocrisy of the GPL, not whether the authors have the right
to
> demand others return their changes to the community.
Freedom to always have access to the source of any work based
on original GPL code. Where is the hypocricy? It only becomes
hypocricy if you attribute a different meaning to the word "free"...
a menaing other than what the GPL specifies.
..darcy
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook)
Subject: Re: Hardware supported list?
Date: 19 Sep 2000 03:38:25 GMT
On Sun, 17 Sep 2000 16:32:44 -0400, nf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Is there a list somewhere of what hardware is supported by Linux?
See
http://www.openhardware.org/
http://www.redhat.com/hardware
http://www.suse.com/us/support/hardware/index.html
>I'm looking to see if my USB Scanner and USB Printer are supported.
Next version of Red Hat will have some USB support backported into kernel
2.2.16.
See http://www.linux-usb.org/ for more info on USB support.
Dave Cook
------------------------------
From: Michael Vester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I'm back! This group has sunk to a new low
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:43:51 -0700
Hi
Steve/Mike/Simon/teknite/keymaster/keys88/"S"/Sponge/Syphon/
"Sewer Rat"/Sarek/steveno/scummer/McSwain/Swango/piddy/
pickle_pete/wazzoo/"leg
log"/mike_hunt/Heather/Amy/claire_lynn/
susie_wong/Ishmeal_hafizi/"Saul Goldblatt"/Proculous/
Tiberious/Jerry_Butler/"Tim Palmer"/BklynBoy/bison/Wobbles/
screwbilk/deadpenguin/"%^$&&&&&&&&&&&&@!!!!!!!!!!!!!.com"/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/etc.
Welcome back and I do miss you. I like "claire_lynn" the best
but there are more personalities than Microsoft has versions
of Windows. Is "claire_lynn" the one that marks Linux boxes
at discount stores and spies on them? I find it difficult
keeping track. Glad you have a break in changing laser printer
cartridges and rebooting servers.
Michael Vester
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Server uptime : 9:40pm up 10 days, 4:50, 2 users, load
average: 1.00, 1.04, 1.03
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> This group is just plain boring these days, I have a break in work for
> about 11 days so I will be posting here, even for a short time.
>
> At least we can count on some excitement instead of the boring crap
> that has been going on here.
>
> claire
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:49:09 -0400
Jason Bowen wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > Jason Bowen wrote:
> > >
> > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Jason Bowen wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jack Troughton wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jason Bowen wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bob Germer wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 09/18/2000 at 06:38 AM,
> > > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jason Bowen) said:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Except I didn't do that. I pointed to some facts and didn't
>make claims
> > > > > > > > > > > as fact. CFC's are man made and the CO2 level is verifiably
>higher than
> > > > > > > > > > > it has been in 600k years.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You claim the CO2 level is higher now that it was 600 years ago
>based on
> > > > > > > > > > experiments on artic ice. You claim that CO2 levels are higher in
>North
> > > > > > > > > > America when the facts prove they are in deficit!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You don't understand what is being discussed. North America as a
>continent produces less CO2
> > > > > > > > > than the plant life on it consumes. The rest of the world produces
>way more than is consumed.
> > > > > > > > > It is called the addtive property of numbers and perhaps and
>elementary algebra class will help
> > > > > > > > > you understand.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then maybe you ought to convince those OTHER countries to reform THEIR
> > > > > > > > ways, and keep your fucking opinions to yourself in this country.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > MORON
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You really are into silencing dissent, aren't you? I was under the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No. I'm into getting the Ignorami among us to stop spreading their
> > > > > > baseless PROPAGANDA.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bullshit. You've been proven to be a liar, your claim about not
> > > > > attacking first was a lie. You discredit one of my statments and then
> > > > > support it to use it to take other countries to task for that which was
> > > > > discredited. Can't have it both ways.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > impression that the intellectual foundations of the US system of
> > > > > > > governance were all about making sure that people didn't keep their
> > > > > > > opinions to themselves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you saying arguing that it is good to NOT oppose liars....
> > > > >
> > > > > You haven't given a source to back up your claims I've noticed, just a
> > > > > belief system.
> > > >
> > > > Your Eco-chicken-little scenarios were discredited YEARS ago, little
> > > > *BOY*
> > >
> > > Notice Aarons persists that I am from the left and doesn't provide proof
> > > for his claims. A stinking pile of shit has more sense than him.
> > >
> >
> > If it looks like a duck
> > waddles like a duck, and squawks duck-nonsense, chances are, it's a
> > duck.
>
> I'm sorry you can't back your claims with proof. If my claims were
> discredited years ago you should have a lot to reference and yet can
> seem to provide them.
I'm not the New York Public Library. Look it up for yourself.
Speakin of homework....don't you have some you should be doing...
...little boy.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
their behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook)
Subject: Re: The Linux Experience
Date: 19 Sep 2000 03:59:14 GMT
On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:16:21 GMT, Jake Taense <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Seems she has been happily using Linux for most things (RedHat 6.2) for a
>little bit now. However, like many users, she disliked the lack of Truetype
>support.
Red Hat 6.2 has built in TT font support. You wasted you're friend's time.
http://customer.support.redhat.com/rhoaprod/plsql/xxrh_know_pkg.srch2?p_id=138
Dave Cook
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Global warming. (was Public v. Private Schools)
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:50:33 -0400
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Jason Bowen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > This is the best Purdue has to offer? Wow, I am stunned by the level of
> > student they put out there.
>
> <completely off topic of the off-topic topic>
> Do you know why some of the new 2001 automobiles have the brights switch on
> the floor again instead of of steering column? Because too many Purdue
> students died with their foot caught in the steering wheel...
>
> God I love that one. It's a little kid joke, but it's still funny.
> I grew up born and raised an I.U. fan
You have my condolences....
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
their behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook)
Subject: Re: The Linux Experience
Date: 19 Sep 2000 04:01:40 GMT
On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:10:32 -0400, Rich C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Also doing a quick search of RedHat's web site with "truetype" or "truetype
Did you search the solutions database at
http://www.redhat.com/apps/support/
Dave Cook
------------------------------
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