Linux-Advocacy Digest #532, Volume #29 Mon, 9 Oct 00 00:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Winvocates and Linvocates: What do you use your desktop OS for? (The Ghost In
The Machine)
Re: How low can they go...? ("JS/PL")
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... (Jacques Guy)
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Off-topic Idiots (Was Bush v. Gore on taxes) (Marty)
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Aaron R. Kulkis [Off-Topic Idiot Tres Grande] (Marty)
Re: Another M$ Troll (droll?) (Paul E. Larson)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Jeff Sturm)
http://www.thelinuxshow.com/ (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Andrew Carpenter)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Simon Cooke")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Winvocates and Linvocates: What do you use your desktop OS for?
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 02:38:30 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Drestin Black
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on 8 Oct 2000 20:19:12 -0500
<39e11c73$0$58796$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>"2:1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > > I have a real X-Windows implementation in XFree86 instead
>> > > > of a slow emulator like Exceed on NT,
>> > >
>> > > Point of pedantry, Exceed is not an X emulation, it is an
>implementation
>> > > of X, though it is a bit slow.
>> >
>> > Either way, Win2K Terminal Services beat them both.
>>
>> No, it doesn't.
>>
>> -Ed
>
>Yes, it does.
I'd say this argument needs work. However, it appears, judging
from other posts, that Win2k Terminal Services provides one bit
more resolution, as X can only handle 32K x 32K, with scrolling;
Terminal server is claimed to handle 64K x 64K, again with scrolling.
Therefore, it's better. :-) :-) :-)
The question I have is, does Win2k Terminal Server support
remote login to Unix nodes and display of X clients?
(Or would that be handled by a third party tool such as
eXceed?)
>
>db
>
>(providing just as much data as you do)
>
>
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:44:55 -0400
Reply-To: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> [...]
> >In the U.S. at least, your actions are all considered to be lawfull by
> >default unless the action is documented as "unlawfull" by the
> >government. You stated quite simply
> >
> ><quote>
> >"You do realize that by so editing a newsgroup, you take on the role,
> >and
> >thus the legal responsibility and liability of a newspaper owner, don't
> >you?"
> ></quote>
> >
> >I provided a link right to the U.S. code which states that it does not.
> >
> >http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/230.html
>
> And allows only 'good faith' efforts to prevent offensive, obscene, or
> harassing messages, not editorial control, as you would be invoking were
> you to decide you don't like the messages I've authored and want to
> prevent them from appearing on the interactive computer service you are
> providing as a common carrier.
Here's what I get from it your dimness:
1) Treatment of publisher or speaker
No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be
treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided
by another information content provider.
(What part of this don't you understand? )
(2) Civil liability
No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be
held liable on account of -
(A) any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict
access to or availability of material that the provider or user
considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively
violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not
such material is constitutionally protected; or
(B) any action taken to enable or make available to
information content providers or others the technical means to
restrict access to material described in paragraph (1).
Then in section (2) I see the words "or otherwise objectionable".
If I deem your post objectionable, it's my right as the owner of the forum
to get rid of it. "Whether or not your statements are constitutionally
protected".
It's really pretty easy to understand. And deleting in no way causes me to
(IN YOUR WORDS) "take on the role, and thus the legal responsibility and
liability of a newspaper owner"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 02:58:23 +0000
From: Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
mlw wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(You know, I miss the days, not so long ago,
when her typical post would be one-word long,
like "ARSEHOLE" -- a pity those posts were not
archived)
> > We don't want compilers.
> [mlw] I don't who the 'we' to which your are referring, but me and my friends
> want them.
One of the reasons I stayed with DOS (and Windows) until
recently is that there was no Linux version of the programming
language I have been using for about 3 years
(see: http://www.rapideuphoria.com and try the
recent Linux version)
> > We don't need all kinds of freeware libraries and fragmented programs
> > that do specific functions, most of which are useless to all but other
> > programmers..
I like that one, because, a few lines below she continues:
> > Example: Norton Internet Firewall, BlackIce, Zonealarm (free BTW).
I have been Windowless for long enough now to have forgotten...
Aren't you still supposed to defrag your hard disk at least
twice a moon? I remember writing a database that required a
lot of writing temporary files to disk. After about 800 files
processed, it became slower, and slower and slower. Eventually
I had it automatically defrag the disk after a few hundred files.
It stopped becoming slower. The awful disk fragmentation was
what made it crawl to a halt.
> > Sorry but my data is worth $30.00 or so, to have a professionally
> > designed program that works out of the box and is easily customized.
I cannot make sense of that sentence. Is it that even though her
data is worth ONLY thirty bucks, it's worth having etc.? My data
is worth well in excess of a hundred times as much, and that is why
I only use Windows now to print, only because my printer is a Panasonic
KPX6100. And, incidentally, perhaps this OS I am using now
is not professionally designed, but it worked out of the box,
and I had no trouble getting it to cope with French accents,
and to display Korean, Japanese and Russian. I am discovering
that I can do a lot more -- just find the right ".*" files. Which,
by the way, demonstrates the advantage of the Windows Registry.
Being binary, it's just as good as enciphered. It keeps Microsoft
in full control and its users in submission.
> > Linux still lags far, far, far, far, behind Windows and this is
> > evident by the number of sales of Windows ME
Yes, a genuine "poulet de Bresse" lags far, far, far, far behind
a Red-Rooster take-away, and this is evident by the number of
sales of Red-Rooster take-aways. Or, hopping onto a time-machine
back 40 years, in Eastern Germany: the Citroen 2CV lags far, far
far behind our Trabant, and this is evident by the number of sales
of Trabant in Berlin compared to Citroen 2V's. An apt analogy:
you don't get a choice, you get Windows bundled with your
Pissy, like it or not.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 02:58:30 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:09:04 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>We don't want compilers.
There are several clientele that may be serviced by computers.
One of them is Engineering; others include Accounting,
Gamesters, Communications, Administration, and Industrial Control.
And I doubt that's all of them.
All have different requirements.
And individual users may wear different hats at different times.
>We don't need 200 different text editors.
So Notepad is adequate for everybody? Even Windows has about 5
types of text editors, with varying types of "text":
- Notepad.
- Wordpad.
- Word 2000.
- Visual C++.
- Visual J++.
As far as I know, these are mostly implemented in DLLs deep
within the operating system, installed within their respective
packages.
>We don't need all kinds of freeware libraries and fragmented programs
>that do specific functions, most of which are useless to all but other
>programmers..
>We don't need 90 percent of the software on Freshmeat.
So who says you need to *use* it? I very rarely visit Freshmeat,
for example -- maybe I should, but I don't feel the need.
>We don't want to return to the 1980's playing with config files.
No, you'd rather play around with strange-looking and insufficiently-
thought-out GUI control tools.
>
>We have gone through Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files ad nauseam with
>Qemm and Qualatis, playing with Himem.sys to gain that extra 5k of
>free memory.
>
>This is 1980's stuff and it is gone, goodbye. We don't want to
>resurrect playing around with text files.
True, you'd rather play around with corrupted registries and
goofed-up installations.
>
>We don't want half assed implementations of Windows software either.
>If you choose to clone it but can't clone it completely, including all
>ease of use features, don't bother at all. it will only make you look
>silly. The current crop of mp3 players are a good example. Damm things
>can't even remember the song directory.
>
>We are willing to pay for quality software that works out of the box.
>And Windows has plenty of it.
>
>Example: Norton Internet Firewall, BlackIce, Zonealarm (free BTW).
>Compare this to trying to set up a firewall under Linux using
>IpChains, ipforwarding and such....What a waste of time, as well as a
>potential security risk for those setting it up that don't know what
>they are doing.
>
>Sorry but my data is worth $30.00 or so, to have a professionally
>designed program that works out of the box and is easily customized.
>Also I don't have to scour the net for config scripts that may
>actually compromise security. The products I use, and pay for, are
>used by corporations everywhere, and if a flaw should arise, and they
>do, a fix is released....
How about backing *up* said data? Does Microsoft support
remote tape backups?
>
>Browsers?
>
>Netscape, says it all. Even Windows users think Netscape sucks.
Agreed, although I haven't tried 6.0. I've heard good things
about konqueror, and 'kfm -w' is adequate. Opera is in beta,
if one wants payware.
In any event, Windows and IE go together like ... well, rivets
and girders. Remember IE 4.0? I do. Changed a fair number
of system DLLs on my hard drive at the time.
>
>Email?
>
>Anything like Eudora yet?
Eudora, feh! Office 2000 is the way to go. Convenient as all get
out (including virus infection, but oh well) to send business
presentations (Microsoft Powerpoint, of course), spreadsheets,
(Excel), documents (Word 2000), scripts (such as aforementioned
viruses), and executables (which might contain viruses).
Of course, there are those of us -- like me -- who simply use elm... :-)
I do like Office2000 for its convenience, but acknowledge that
there are probably safer ways to conduct business.
>Sorry but I don't feel like configuring sendmail today, or any day for
>that matter.
>
>Linux still lags far, far, far, far, behind Windows and this is
>evident by the number of sales of Windows ME.... Why would people pay
>for what really amounts to a minimal upgrade instead of getting Linux
>for free?
>They are not interested in Linux, that is why.
>
>
>Linux has had it's day in the press, let's do every desktop user a
>favor and put it out of it's misery once and for all :)
Good, do so. Let me know when it's done. You do realize, of course,
that not all of us have 256 megabyte 800 megahertz mega machines?
I am using an old PPro 200 with 64Megs, albeit with quite a bit
of disk space.
My understanding of Win2k is that its minimum requirements are
128M of RAM. To be fair, Win2k *is* an NT derivative; Windows ME
probably has a lighter footprint. Also, I priced some machines
yesterday and it seems that one can have a ~600 Mhz Celeron for
about $600 or so, if that. (I don't rmember how much RAM, though.)
>
>I along with everybody else in the world would LOVE free applicaitons,
>but not at the price that running Linux involves.
Actually, no you would not! That's an obvious lie!
Free applications have no support. You need support.
Specifically, Microsoft support.
This is an issue which has obviously eluded much of the freeware
community; it takes money and time to fix those bugs.
(Never mind that Linux seems to fix them faster...but those
kinds of minor discrepancies are ... well ... minor.)
You also want to ensure that the programmers developing that
product get proper recognition and recompense. Remember the
Napster flack that we're still going through? The one covering
programmers may be thousands of times worse, when it comes.
If it comes.
That's right, it's Copy Protection Wars(tm) all over again! :-)
Piracy can simply not be defended against -- erm, I mean tolerated --
in this Internet age, where files are copied as easily as bootleg
tapes from a Who or Grateful Dead concert, and with far higher fidelity.
Software belongs to somebody, even GNU software. It will be interesting
whether the legal types will attempt to require protections similar to
those of the music industry.
(And yes, the following was slightly sarcastic. I believe that
the genie's already out of the bottle here; good luck putting it
back in!)
>
>claire
>
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random "fair use" here
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Off-topic Idiots (Was Bush v. Gore on taxes)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:16:15 GMT
"David T. Johnson" wrote:
>
> Marty wrote:
> >
> [repetitive comments snipped]
Sorry David, you lose.
Stop being a hypocrite and grow up.
"[repetitive comments snipped]"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:20:13 GMT
Amazing, so six programmer types (which includes engineers and other
geek types) respond and try to defend their beloved Linux by splitting
hairs and playing semantics.
Forget it it guys, you fail the course.
You can't even rebutt a simple argument. Maybe we should turn this
thread into a little endian, big endian argument so you can feel at
home?
claire
On Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:09:04 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>We don't want compilers.
>We don't need 200 different text editors.
>We don't need all kinds of freeware libraries and fragmented programs
>that do specific functions, most of which are useless to all but other
>programmers..
>We don't need 90 percent of the software on Freshmeat.
>We don't want to return to the 1980's playing with config files.
>
>We have gone through Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files ad nauseam with
>Qemm and Qualatis, playing with Himem.sys to gain that extra 5k of
>free memory.
>
>This is 1980's stuff and it is gone, goodbye. We don't want to
>resurrect playing around with text files.
>
>We don't want half assed implementations of Windows software either.
>If you choose to clone it but can't clone it completely, including all
>ease of use features, don't bother at all. it will only make you look
>silly. The current crop of mp3 players are a good example. Damm things
>can't even remember the song directory.
>
>We are willing to pay for quality software that works out of the box.
>And Windows has plenty of it.
>
>Example: Norton Internet Firewall, BlackIce, Zonealarm (free BTW).
>Compare this to trying to set up a firewall under Linux using
>IpChains, ipforwarding and such....What a waste of time, as well as a
>potential security risk for those setting it up that don't know what
>they are doing.
>
>Sorry but my data is worth $30.00 or so, to have a professionally
>designed program that works out of the box and is easily customized.
>Also I don't have to scour the net for config scripts that may
>actually compromise security. The products I use, and pay for, are
>used by corporations everywhere, and if a flaw should arise, and they
>do, a fix is released....
>
>Browsers?
>
>Netscape, says it all. Even Windows users think Netscape sucks.
>
>Email?
>
>Anything like Eudora yet?
>Sorry but I don't feel like configuring sendmail today, or any day for
>that matter.
>
>Linux still lags far, far, far, far, behind Windows and this is
>evident by the number of sales of Windows ME.... Why would people pay
>for what really amounts to a minimal upgrade instead of getting Linux
>for free?
>They are not interested in Linux, that is why.
>
>
>Linux has had it's day in the press, let's do every desktop user a
>favor and put it out of it's misery once and for all :)
>
>I along with everybody else in the world would LOVE free applicaitons,
>but not at the price that running Linux involves.
>
>claire
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Aaron R. Kulkis [Off-Topic Idiot Tres Grande]
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:21:12 GMT
"David T. Johnson" wrote:
>
> Marty wrote:
> >
> >
> > How many more "attack-the-person" threads are you going to launch after
> > whining about such things, hypocritical troll?
>
> Another nonsensical, illogical comment.
Another example of your reading comprehension problems.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul E. Larson)
Subject: Re: Another M$ Troll (droll?)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:23:43 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ian Pulsford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Jacques Guy wrote:
>
>> http://boss.afr.com.au/people/20001003/A30068-2000Oct3.html
>>
>> afr.com is the Web site of the Australian Financial
>> Review, a daily financial newspaper. And no, "accessable"
>> is not a spelling mistake: some bright bulbs at McQuarie
>> university in New South Wales decided Australia needed
>> an Australian dictionary, and decided to rationalize
>>
>
>That's "rationalise" not "rationalize" ;-)
>
Location, location, and location.
------------------------------
From: Jeff Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:30:09 GMT
Caveman wrote:
> >Kid, I hope you remember that Linux got created because of
> >the fragmentation among UNIX family, high cost of compilers,
> >proprietary implementations like Solaris, AIX etc.
>
> Linux got created, like PASCAL, as a teaching tool, not as
> a marketable product.
Linus wrote a kernel to learn about the i386 and virtual memory. It
wasn't a "teaching tool". There was no comprehensive textbook on Linux
internals as for Minix (I sure wish there were).
> Solaris has never been very expensive until Sun stopped
> supporting decent graphics on Intel and stopped making
> any form of SPARC that wasn't merely a PC with a slower
> CPU at 10x the cost.
Bull. Try lmbench on a new SPARC. Then try to find a PC with
comparable performance that actually costs less. If those Xeon chips
are less expensive at all, it certainly isn't 10x.
> I have had a fully licensed personal copy of SunOS/Solaris
> on my desk at home for well more than a decade, and I have
> never found Sun to be unreasonably expensive about at least
> the OS. The compilers are a different story, but I can
> at least work with the GNU stuff at home. I find it hard
> to understand how you can complain much about a OS that
> comes with a free developer copy of Oracle 8i Enterprise
> and a limited version of their enterprise management toolset
> for $75 USD, and is a professionally managed evolution of
> the AT&T SVR4.0 source tree. I don't ever recall paying
> more than about $150 USD for any version of SunOS or Solaris
> even on QIT tape. And that's dealing directly with Sun as
> an individual with no corporate discount.
Or you can download a complete OS.
Some of the libc routines in Solaris are pretty crummy, and certain
utilities are downright broken. Luckily there are free replacements
available. So much for your "professionally managed" OS...
Followups trimmed.
Jeff
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: http://www.thelinuxshow.com/
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:31:18 GMT
Give this a listen.
This has been around for a year and I've never heard of it until now.
The MP3 format is great listening and it seems to be a really great
show.
Appearently it's live Tuesday nights at 8 pm CST.
http://www.thelinuxshow.com/
Charlie
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 23:47:29 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Mike Byrns <"mike.byrns"@technologist,.com> in
[...]
>All the WINE folks have to do is to make a control that behaves like the
>standard windows edit control and clones it's interface. That's not really
>all that hard.
That's the point.
> I've had so so extensively subclass them in the past that I
>think I've probably rewritten most of the code myself. It's not so hard when
>you really understand Windows.
<...>
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:25:25 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Mike Byrns <"mike.byrns"@technologist,.com> in
comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
>> Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> >
>> >"mike burrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:y%MD5.31474$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> In comp.lang.c Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> > Wine runs Office? Wow, what a claim.
>> >>
>> >> > A quick trip to the wine database shows that there isn't much that
>> >really
>> >> > runs under Wine. The highest rating for Office 97 is 3. This rating is
>> >> > described as "3 -- Sufficient functionality for noncritical work.
>> >Occasional
>> >> > crashes okay, as are weird setup problems, required patches, or missing
>> >> > major functionality. Alpha quality." Other reviews gave it even lower
>> >marks.
>> >> > The highest review given to Word 2000 is 1: "1 -- Loads without
>> >crashing.
>> >> > Good enough for a screenshot." And the highest review of Office 2000
>> >rates
>> >> > it 0: "0 -- Totally nonfunctional. Crashes on load."
>> >>
>> >> you have, of course, conveniently ignored that the most recent review of
>> >> Microsoft Word is from six months ago with a comment saying "maybe in 3
>> >> months it works".
>> >>
>> >> of course everybody knows that Wine doesn't run Office well, but lying
>> >> (albeit by omission) doesn't help anybody.
>> >
>> >Sorry... correction: latest review of Notepad (1999-08-15) says:
>> >
>> >http://www.winehq.com/Apps/details.cgi?id=1803
>> >
>> >"Works except find/find next."
>> >
>> >THe problem being that people submit sporadic reports like these and don't
>> >test the app in question thoroughly.
>> >
>> >Anyway... come on... Notepad is about the simplest application short of
>> >Hello World that you can write. If this isn't working fine, there's no hope.
>>
>> Pretty pathetic, isn't it. WINE can't even get a fucking NOTEPAD to
>> work correctly. Sounds to me like Win32 is a complete piece of shit,
>> and MS ought to be taken out and shot just for pretending its a useable
>> API.
>
>Oh, Max. You say that "WINE can't even get ... NOTEPAD to work correctly" and
>then turn around and say "Win32 is a complete piece of shit, and MS ought to be
>taken out and shot just for pretending its a useable API"? And you claim that
>you present logical arguments? WINE emmulates Win32. Windows runs Notepad
>fine. WINE does not. It would appear that the problem exists in WINE, not with
>Windows or the Win32 API. Application programmers have proven that Win32 is a
>very usable API by writing more programs for it than any other OS API while there
>are virtually no programs that run correctly on WINE, by their own admission.
>WINE like Linux has a very long way to go on to be any kind of challenge to
>Windows on the desktop.
<Grin>
You missed the argument completely, Mike. Yes, I said that Win32 is a
piece of crap, because WINE emulates Win32, and the WINE programmers
can't support Notepad, a positively trivial Windows program. There was
nothing illogical about it. You may have so studiously avoided the
inference that you simply missed it. With all the depth of your
knowledge of software, you're telling me you don't think that this
illustrates that Microsoft software is crap, and the Win32 API is crap,
that it can't be supported by rational programmers trying to support
that API, and finding themselves unable to get anything to work better
than Microsoft?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 04:01:52 GMT
"Zenin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [ followups cut down a bit for sanity ]
>
> Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >snip<
> : How do I know this? I used to work there.
>
> Why do I not believe you? Because you used to work there.
>
> I've had a few friends go off to Redmond... "brain washed" is an
> understatement.
Sure. Which is why everyone who works for Sun is an asshole, why all people
who work for Oracle are theives, and why anyone who works for Microsoft has
a blue arse.
...BECAUSE GRANDIOSE SWEEPING STATEMENTS LIKE YOURS ARE *ALWAYS* VALID IN
ALL INSTANCES.
Simon
------------------------------
From: Andrew Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:35:05 +1030
Simon Cooke wrote:
> ...BECAUSE GRANDIOSE SWEEPING STATEMENTS LIKE YOURS ARE *ALWAYS* VALID IN
> ALL INSTANCES.
...including this one? :)
(Sorry, couldn't resist. Carry on.)
Andrew
[ opinions are my own ]
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 04:05:25 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >If Microsoft is a lousy, anticompetitive company, or if Win32 doesn't
> >work on other platforms -- neither one of those makes the API
> >unworkable.
>
> I didn't describe it as unworkable; that was Simon Cooke, who was,
> characteristically, building a straw man. I said it was crap.
I didn't describe Win32 as uinworkable, Max. Don't ascribe quotes to me that
I didn't make.
Simon
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