Linux-Advocacy Digest #549, Volume #29 Mon, 9 Oct 00 17:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... (Gardiner Family)
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Re: Linux Sucks (Gardiner Family)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:52:09 -0000
On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:33:00 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Nothing wrong with that, and for the desktop user, aka Jane Computer,
>Windows is a better solution simply by the amount of applications
>availible.
Yet when Jane User tries to actually take advantage of that
diversity she'll be bitch slapped into the gutter. That
aspect of the Lemming culture is why many of us don't run
WinDOS anymore.
What's the use of "all the apps" if you aren't free to use them?
Besides, it's non-obvious what consitutes Jane User's set of
needed apps.
>
>claire
>
>On Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:15:15 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim
>Cameron) wrote:
>
>
>>Surely that's their problem. Those of us with sense will continue to
>>use the tool for the job, be it Windows, Linux or a Commodore 64.
You are a hypocrite.
This attitude is specifically what you are railing against.
--
He who steps on others to reach the top has good balance.
Peterson's Admonition:
When you think you're going down for the third time --
just remember that you may have counted wrong.
Your program is sick! Shoot it and put it out of its memory.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:53:13 GMT
And what valid argument is that?
Be specific please.
claire
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:50:16 +1300, Gardiner Family
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Claire has appointed her self as the guru of computing yet when it comes to a
>valid argument she is stumped for a reply. I am no guru, however, I do however
>actually analyse the facts. Many of the posts made my Linux Advocates saying
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:57:18 GMT
"Gardiner Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Claire has appointed her self as the guru of computing yet when it comes
to a
> valid argument she is stumped for a reply. I am no guru, however, I do
however
> actually analyse the facts. Many of the posts made my Linux Advocates
saying
> "Windows 2000 is slow", or "Windows 2000 is un-stable" are generally
talking out
> of there ass. I have used Windows 2000 Professional and found it a very
stable
> and reliable platform, however, I prefer to use Linux because of the
unixness of
> it (I like using the shell), and second, I have used Solaris 7 and 8 and
found
> them very reliable, however, the hardware support was terrible. I am not
trying
> to convert everyone to Linux like some Jehovah Witness, however, when I do
> reply, I am simple replying to people who make false accusations regarding
> Linux.
>
actually i think Claire is making a very good job at arguing for here(?)
point, you may or may not agree with her(?)
but "stumped for a reply"....?, when did that happened?
> matt
>
> Stuart Fox wrote:
>
> > "Gardiner Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > What technical background do you have? probably none, Who are you? a
> > > nobody! What education level do you have? none. Before you crap on
about
> > > issues that you have no background knowledge, get some of this
knowledge,
> > > then post a valid and informative post. Unless you wake up to
reality,
> > > the only person you are kidding is yourself. If you came into this
> > > newsgroup and had 30 years of computer experience using
> > > Windows/UNIX/LINUX, Sysadmin, Tech support and other various IT
orientated
> > > tasks, 1. you would actually make valid points. 2. people may
actually
> > > take you seriously.
> > >
> >
> > While we're on the subject, what are your answers to the above
questions?
> > What makes you a self appointed expert?
>
------------------------------
From: Gardiner Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:54:41 +1300
for some one who knows so much, yet replys with little or no fact at all.
I am no guru, however, I do however analyse the facts. Many of the posts made
by Linux Advocates saying "Windows 2000 is slow", or "Windows 2000 is
un-stable" are generally talking out of there ass. I have used Windows 2000
Professional and found it a very stable and reliable platform, however, I
prefer to use Linux because of the unixness of it (I like using the shell), and
second, I have used Solaris 7 and 8 and found them very reliable, however, the
hardware support was terrible. I am not trying to convert everyone to Linux
like some Jehovah Witness, however, when I do reply, I am simple replying to
people who make false accusations regarding Linux.
matt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Does having a BSEE and 25 or so years in IT count?
>
> I have a feeling I was loading opcode's into a KIM-1 unit by hand
> before you were even hatched.
> Ever use a Card Reader/Punch?
> Know what an Hp-41CV is?
>
> You need to examine your facts a little bit before you post and I
> would suggest that on one of your trips to Linuxburg, you down load a
> decent spell checker.
>
> claire
>
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 06:43:33 GMT, Gardiner Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >What technical background do you have? probably none, Who are you? a
> >nobody! What education level do you have? none. Before you crap on about
> >issues that you have no background knowledge, get some of this knowledge,
> >then post a valid and informative post. Unless you wake up to reality,
> >the only person you are kidding is yourself. If you came into this
> >newsgroup and had 30 years of computer experience using
> >Windows/UNIX/LINUX, Sysadmin, Tech support and other various IT orientated
> >tasks, 1. you would actually make valid points. 2. people may actually
> >take you seriously.
> >
> >> We don't want compilers.
> >
> >Well I do, I am not a programmer, but I like to re-compile my kernel to be
> >optimized for my system. Unfortunately, Windows 9x is optimized to work
> >on the lowest grade pentium available, meaning, your OS will never be
> >optimized for your system, thus a system upgrade would not give you the
> >same performance boost as if I were to upgrade a Linux Box.
> >
> >>
> >> We don't need 200 different text editors.
> >
> >don't install them. I use Vi. Trusty and reliable.
> >
> >>
> >> We don't need all kinds of freeware libraries and fragmented programs
> >> that do specific functions, most of which are useless to all but other
> >> programmers..
> >
> >Look how many libraries are installed with Windows and the number of times
> >one experiences DLL hell? Each library has a specific purpose in Linux.
> >Until you actual program, you will never realise the significance of each
> >library.
> >
> >>
> >> We don't need 90 percent of the software on Freshmeat.
> >
> >I don't either. I goto linuxburg.
> >
> >>
> >> We don't want to return to the 1980's playing with config files.
> >
> >Well I don't play with config files (I run SuSE Linux 7). Question for
> >you, does Windows ME/98 have a journalling file system so in the event of
> >a crash so you donot loose everything?
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> We have gone through Config.sys and Autoexec.bat files ad nauseam with
> >> Qemm and Qualatis, playing with Himem.sys to gain that extra 5k of
> >> free memory.
> >>
> >> This is 1980's stuff and it is gone, goodbye. We don't want to resurrect
> >> playing around with text files.
> >
> >Most of the time, these config files are automatically changed when
> >installing apps, thus your argument is rubbish. When using windows you
> >have to reboot the computer to activate the changes. install a driver on
> >linux and it automatically loads, no reboot required.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> We don't want half assed implementations of Windows software either.
> >> If you choose to clone it but can't clone it completely, including all
> >> ease of use features, don't bother at all. it will only make you look
> >> silly. The current crop of mp3 players are a good example. Damm things
> >> can't even remember the song directory.
> >>
> >
> >Well, if you think you can do a better job, why don't you, oops sorry,
> >your one of those uneducated, non programmers that come up with all the
> >"linux is not as good as Windows" crap.
> >
> >>
> >> We are willing to pay for quality software that works out of the box.
> >> And Windows has plenty of it.
> >>
> >> Example: Norton Internet Firewall, BlackIce, Zonealarm (free BTW).
> >> Compare this to trying to set up a firewall under Linux using
> >> IpChains, ipforwarding and such....What a waste of time, as well as a
> >> potential security risk for those setting it up that don't know what
> >> they are doing.
> >
> >Well, if you are so stupid then you should not use a computer or connect
> >to the net.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Sorry but my data is worth $30.00 or so, to have a professionally
> >> designed program that works out of the box and is easily customized.
> >> Also I don't have to scour the net for config scripts that may
> >> actually compromise security. The products I use, and pay for, are
> >> used by corporations everywhere, and if a flaw should arise, and they
> >> do, a fix is released....
> >>
> >
> >thats not alot! must be alot of shit
> >
> >>
> >> Browsers?
> >>
> >> Netscape, says it all. Even Windows users think Netscape sucks.
> >>
> >> Email?
> >>
> >
> >I use Communicator with out any problems, so what is your bone of
> >contention?
> >
> >>
> >> Anything like Eudora yet?
> >> Sorry but I don't feel like configuring sendmail today, or any day for
> >> that matter.
> >>
> >
> >Sendmail is a server you nit-wit. It is a proven technology that Windows
> >will never live up to.
> >
> >>
> >> Linux still lags far, far, far, far, behind Windows and this is
> >> evident by the number of sales of Windows ME.... Why would people pay
> >> for what really amounts to a minimal upgrade instead of getting Linux
> >> for free?
> >> They are not interested in Linux, that is why.
> >
> >I have read a number of scathing reviews of Windows ME. "Un-stable",
> >"Conflicts", "crashes", "most additions already free on the net by third
> >parties".
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Linux has had it's day in the press, let's do every desktop user a
> >> favor and put it out of it's misery once and for all :)
> >>
> >> I along with everybody else in the world would LOVE free applicaitons,
> >> but not at the price that running Linux involves.
> >>
> >
> >Claire, grow a brain. I have never had any problems with Linux. Until
> >you have used it for atleast 4 years (like me) keep your trap shut!
> >
> >matt
> >
> >>
> >> claire
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:00:20 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:30:55 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Stop changing the subject jedi.
> >
> >You know full well I am talking about the desktop.
>
> IDC says that Linux is even gaining there.
>
> It will overtake Microsoft's token competitor before too long.
not even a hardcore Linux geek can in his(always is) wildest dream think
that Linux will take
over from Windows on the desktop...C'MON!!!
>
> >
> >claire
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:53:42 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
> >wrote:
> >
> >>On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:45:01 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>Tell it to Compaq as they back up at least some of my points:
> >>>
> >>>http://www.wininformant.com/display.asp?ID=2944
> >>>
> >>>Meanwhile, Linux backer Compaq Computer is taking the open source
> >>>software to task for not moving beyond its niche status. The
> >>
> >> So? By your definition the whole of the server room is a
> >> "just a niche" anyways...
> >>
> >>[deletia]
> >>
> >> Although, Linux is already 2nd in server marketshare as things
> >> are already. So comments from you or Compaq on the future state
> >> of things aren't really too relevant.
> >
>
>
> --
>
> The older I grow, the less important the comma becomes. Let the reader
> catch his own breath.
> -- Elizabeth Clarkson Zwart
>
> I don't know WHY I said that ... I think it came from the FILLINGS in
> my read molars ...
>
> The Moral Majority is neither.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:59:01 GMT
You are a dreamer jedi.
Maybe on a programmers desktop, but not on any home user I know. Oh
sure I know plenty who have tried Linux, most try several
distributions in fact, but I know of none, zippo, zero, who have
stayed with it. Most popular reason seems to be that everything takes
longer, requires more steps and is not as good as under Windows.
I'm not talking about someone bringing back to life a P166, Linux may
be a good choice for that, I am speaking of people who bought
pre-loads and are testing the waters with Linux.
claire
On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:49:35 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:30:55 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>Stop changing the subject jedi.
>>
>>You know full well I am talking about the desktop.
>
> IDC says that Linux is even gaining there.
>
> It will overtake Microsoft's token competitor before too long.
>
>>
>>claire
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:53:42 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:45:01 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>>>Tell it to Compaq as they back up at least some of my points:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.wininformant.com/display.asp?ID=2944
>>>>
>>>>Meanwhile, Linux backer Compaq Computer is taking the open source
>>>>software to task for not moving beyond its niche status. The
>>>
>>> So? By your definition the whole of the server room is a
>>> "just a niche" anyways...
>>>
>>>[deletia]
>>>
>>> Although, Linux is already 2nd in server marketshare as things
>>> are already. So comments from you or Compaq on the future state
>>> of things aren't really too relevant.
>>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:01:42 GMT
Stop playing semantics jedi.
Next you'll be asking "and what IS Linux anyway?"
The kernel?
The distro?
etc
You remind me of Otter in Animal House where he is in the student
court defending Delta house against the jock fraternity.
claire
On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:48:31 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:33:41 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>You mean like Linux is trying to do?
>
>
> What Linux?
>
> Linux Inc?
> Linux Corp?
> Linux Unlimited?
>
> HA is a niche even amongst the larger server market. Otherwise,
> NT would never have been able to go anywhere and DEC would never
> have been bought out by the likes of Compaq.
>
>
>>
>>claire
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:51:20 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:42:58 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>>>Here is the part of the article I like best:
>>>>********************************************************************************
>>>>Meanwhile, Linux backer Compaq Computer is taking the open source
>>>
>>> ...not exactly what I think of when enterprise computing comes
>>> to mind. Although, not being suited for the glass room hardly
>>> keeps other OSes from decending upon the land like a plague of
>>> locusts.
>>>
>>>[deletia]
>>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:06:35 -0000
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:54:41 +1300, Gardiner Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>for some one who knows so much, yet replys with little or no fact at all.
>I am no guru, however, I do however analyse the facts. Many of the posts made
>by Linux Advocates saying "Windows 2000 is slow", or "Windows 2000 is
>un-stable" are generally talking out of there ass. I have used Windows 2000
It certainly has lesser hardware support and that's no fart.
This is the sort of situation that can easily lead to lesser
stability, especially with an OS for which "bad drivers" are
the usual scapegoat.
[deletia]
If you push NT5 a little bit, it will certainly fall over at
this point. The sort of push required could quite easily be
exerted by an end user.
Unix as a server platform can quite easily avoid some of the
frills that might make a consumer OS less stable. However,
Windows NT as a server platoform tends to have these sorts
of components still present. Then there are design issues...
--
Hideously disfigured by an ancient Indian curse?
WE CAN HELP!
Call (511) 338-0959 for an immediate appointment.
The problem that we thought was a problem was, indeed, a problem, but
not the problem we thought was the problem.
-- Mike Smith
If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit
in my name at a Swiss bank.
-- Woody Allen, "Without Feathers"
------------------------------
From: Gardiner Family <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Sucks
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:07:24 +1300
thats cool. I was assuming you may have been a Windows only user who has never touched
UNIX at all, however, I was wrong. When comparing say, Linux with Solaris,
scalability,
Solaris wins, however, when it comes to hardware support, linux has the upper hand. I
understand, from the average joe or jane bloggs stand point that a compiler is as
useless as tits on a bull, however, I could see, in maybe 2 to 3 years time Linux may
have the same or close to the credibility of ease of use of Windows, however, this will
never happen until the Linux community realise that users do not give a toss about
technical details, all they want is a OS that works (stable and reliable) and can go
down to Dick Smiths Electronics and buy their favourite game.
matt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have used AIX but no other commercial nix's. Linux is way out of
> AIX's league, if only for chrp and concurrent diagnostics and repair
> of the hardware running the OS.
>
> I am not saying that Linux is hard, I am saying that it is being
> largely ignored by the Windows desktop users, not the techno people,
> but the average home user and the reason is applications.
> The current Free Internet Access thread is a classic example.
> Free internet access is a kludge, and a pita I agree, but for some it
> is the only way they can afford to use the net.
> FreeWeb (now Juno) was the only one I know of that supports Linux and
> it doesn't anymore to the best of my knowledge.
> Free internet and free Linux seem like a good combination to me :)
>
> This is just one example. For a home user all the compilers and
> editors in the world won't persuade him to switch if he needs free
> internet access. Or children's educational programs and so forth.
>
> The underlying OS is simply a means to the end result and Linux is a
> fine operating system. In my opinion it should stay focused on the
> advanced market, where it is making major gains in usage, and stop
> trying to compete with desktop Windows.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> claire
> claire
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:56:50 +1300, Gardiner Family
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >It is amazing how you have all this experience yet find it hard to use Linux? Or
> >have you used a commercial UNIX and simpling saying Linux is not up to the standard
> >of commercial Operating Systems?
> >
> >matt
> >
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> Like I said in another thread, you hadn't even been hatched yet when I
> >> was already working in IT...
> >>
> >> claire
> >>
> >> On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:55:00 +1300, Gardiner Family
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I got my first computer at the age of 7 (Amiga 500), I unlike most users, read
> >> >book after book, knowing the in's and out's of computers, I taught my self how
> >> >to program in AmigaBASIC. Unless you are willing to learn new things you will
> >> >be stuck in the same place for the rest of your life.
> >> >
> >> >matt
> >> >
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
