Linux-Advocacy Digest #549, Volume #30 Thu, 30 Nov 00 02:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Statistic about this bigot group (Jim Broughton)
Re: linux jobs and skills. Why the sudden surge and increase? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Ok, putting money where my mouth is... (Jim Broughton)
Re: Whistler review. (kiwiunixman)
Re: KDE2 (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Linux is awful (UnixGeek)
Re: linux jobs and skills. Why the sudden surge and increase? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: C++ -- Our Industry... ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Whistler review. ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Whistler review. (J.C.)
Re: C++ is very alive! (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Linux is awful ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Whistler review. ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Whistler review. (J.C.)
Re: C++ -- Our Industry... ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Whistler review. (J.C.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim Broughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Statistic about this bigot group
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 05:54:43 GMT
Bob Hauck wrote:
>
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:49:30 +0500, BcB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I simply wrote a program that would grab the uptime and put it into
> >something readable.
>
> Cool. Here's a quick and dirty version in Python. It is probably
> Linux specific:
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> import string
>
> # /proc/uptime has the uptime and idle time as "seconds.frac seconds.frac"
> # We only care about the integer part of the uptime.
>
> fd = open ("/proc/uptime")
> tm_int, tm_frac = string.split (fd.read (), ".", 1)
> fd.close ()
>
> # Integer math
>
> uptime = int (tm_int)
> days = uptime / 86400
> uptime = uptime - days * 86400
> hours = uptime / 3600
> uptime = uptime - hours * 3600
> minutes = uptime / 60
> seconds = uptime - minutes * 60
>
> print days, "days", hours, "hours", minutes, "minutes", seconds, "seconds"
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| To Whom You Are Speaking
> -| http://www.haucks.org/
Slick and works like a charm too.
--
Jim Broughton
(The Amiga OS! Now there was an OS)
If Sense were common everyone would have it!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: linux jobs and skills. Why the sudden surge and increase?
Date: 30 Nov 2000 06:03:41 GMT
On 29 Nov 2000 13:23:51 -0800, chris@looking_for_advice wrote:
>
>I think I am making the correct thing, please tell me if I am
>wrong, and why you think so. Any people actually working on
>linux for living? can you tell what do you think the future for
>linux jobs will be?
I've recently been offered a programming position in an academic
environment, writing free Linux software, and that's probably what
I'll do next year.
Linux skills are pretty valuable because they have broader application
than just Linux -- linux is built on standards, so your skills should
be applicable to UNIX in general.
I'd suggest that you set yourself up a nice home network and get a solid
understanding of "sys admin 101", and back it up with some solid
programming skills. See the books "Beginning Linux Programming" and
"Professional Linux programming"
I think the future for people with solid Linux skills will be pretty good.
Linux seems to be the place where a lot of interesting development (eg
KDE, GNOME) is taking place. As a general rule, I think people who develop
broad skills on standards based technologies ( C, C++, UNIX ) have a
better future than those who rely on proprietary technologies ( VB )
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: Jim Broughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Ok, putting money where my mouth is...
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:05:59 GMT
the_blur wrote:
>
> Ok guys, I'm trying to come up with a non-goofy pinguino (readers of my "Is
> design really that overrated?" article will know what this means), I know
> it's possible, because they are graceful and pretty when they swim.
>
> Anyway (as a pet project), I'm coming up with an umbrella pinguino logo
> (maybe to stamp on boxes of approved / compliant hardware)
>
> After I finish this, I'm tackling that water buffalo-looking thing the free
> software foundation uses.
>
> Here is the early "alpha source" =)
>
> http://pages.infinit.net/outcasts/pinguinos.html
>
> If anyone wants to lend me a hand, drop me a line.
>
> NOTE: The usage of the spanish word pinguino is deliberate, to give that
> latin charm to what otherwise would be a little, fat, clumsy, shuffling
> creature of the antarctic climates. And don't try to tell me there are
> pinguinos in the Galapagos! The prettiest are Rockhoppers and Emperors!
> which sort attacked Linus BTW? Anyone know?=)
Very good art. But for a real penguin logo (a small animation really)
take a look at this web site. Its at the top of the page and its rockin'
(cool shades too! (not really)
http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~dranch/LINUX/index-linux.html
--
Jim Broughton
(The Amiga OS! Now there was an OS)
If Sense were common everyone would have it!
------------------------------
From: kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:14:47 GMT
Chad, honey, what experice with UNIX have you had? So, you are judging
an OS from a hypothetical standpoint along the lines of, "I've never
used UNIX, so it must suck". I have used NT, and I have used UNIX (both
Linux and Solaris), IMHO Solaris gives better performance than Linux,
however, due to Solaris's pathetic hardware support on the i386 platform
(can you blame them, considering they are also a hardware vendor, hence,
it is not in their best interest to fully support a potential compeitor)
, I use Linux instead as it provides the superior hardware support (when
compared to Solaris) yet has the Unixness I like. The one thing I
hated under Windows 2000/NT was the mediochre CLI support, no vi, cannot
pipe commands (like gzip -d filename.tar.gz | tar vxf) and the lack of
POSIX compliancy, I like /bin /etc /usr /tmp /dev and not needing to use
letter to address drives (Windows, however, is a barstard when you want
to add drives to an Wintel machine your letters get "re-orgainise"), add
more space for users, copy all the user stuff to the new hard disk,
delete the original (from the first drive) then remount the new drive
under the old direct, total transparent to the OS, and no need to buy an
expensive RAID controller.
kiwiunixman
Chad Myers wrote:
> "Glitch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>>
>> Tom Elam wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 02:30:51 +0200, Tom Elam wrote this reply to "Ayende
>>> Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>
>>>> For now, I think that there is a good chance that Whistler will be as good
>>>
>>> >from win2k as win2k was from NT.
>>>
>>> That would make it a pretty impressive piece of software.
>>>
>> yep, only 2 crashes per day instead of 5, and only 5 employees angry for
>> their work being lost instead of 10 employees.
>
>
> You idiots are all the same. You used Windows back in the Win3.0 days,
> realized it was shit, and then never used another Windows again, but
> held every version to that standard.
>
> NT is far superior, Win2K even more, and Whistler just that much more.
>
> -Chad
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: 30 Nov 2000 06:16:00 GMT
On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 23:31:20 +0100, Matthias Warkus wrote:
>It was the Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:55:58 +0100...
>...and Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > > > I think this piece of software (KDE2) will help a lot
>> Whats wrong about assembler i might ask. Lots of things have happened with
>> computer science since C was created. The most important IMHO is OO and C
>> is just not up to the task.... its too close to the machine so it makes it
>> diffcult to think abstract with it.
>
>Oh really. Have you done any GTK+ development?
I've played with it a little, and it's a hairball. Oh, and CORBA in C blows
goats. Especially exceptions in C. I suppose one could also try programming
OO in assembly language, but using ugly idiosyncratic hacks is a poor
alternative to using rigorously defined language smantics. While the C++
language semantics are rigorously specified by an ISO standard, the GTK
object model remains a dark mystery buried beneath lines upon lines of
incomprehensible code.
I wouldn't dream of doing anything serious with it. However, OO in C is fun,
because it helps one understand how one could build an OO architecture on top
of a procedural language.
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: UnixGeek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:14:10 GMT
Well, the appeal is simple.
Simple service for simple minds. Software so easy to use, a 5 year
old can operate it. You hardly have to be literate to use the software,
and surf their homogenized version of the Internet. This has been their
forte' all along. They dumbed down the GUI, had mass marketing
campaigns, and drew in the idiots, who brought freinds. And we all know
that generally most people tend to follow each other like sheep,
dressing the same, doing their hair/makeup the same, driving the same
kinds of cars,etc, these are the people drawn to AOL. They are
ignorant, they know it, and they can still exchange stupid spam jokes,
and check their account balances without having to learn anything new.
They can buy a new jeep cherokee, exchange a few funnies, and never
have to know what a "browser" is. Plus their kids can talk trash to
each other, and have cybersex with thier equally unattractive peers.
is the truth. I will undoubtably be flamed for saying this, but it is
the truth. It is remarkably similar to the reasons people still use
windows. Let the flaming begin.
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What I don't understand is the big hype surrounding AOL? From what I
> have seen, it is like an over-hyped Compuserve. I use Clearnet (New
> Zealand (owned by British Telecom)), and I don't have to worry about
all
> the shit like "intergrated browsers, "special dialers" and so-called
> enhance user experience. From what I have read by users of AOL in
> Aussie, it is really shit in all aspects.
>
> kiwiunixman
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 17:09:46 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Claire!
> >>
> >> Using the new AOL promo CD you got with the Sunday newspaper?
> >
> >
> >
> > It may be the "only" thing the Penguinista's and me I agree on, but
I
> > would NEVER infect any of my systems with the AOL virus.
> >
> > Sorry, but it ain't me.
> >
> > claire
> >
>
>
--
J.C. Morgan
coming soon: huge knowledgebase
http://home1.gte.net/res06ckv ( due up in december)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: linux jobs and skills. Why the sudden surge and increase?
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 00:25:00 -0600
"chris@looking_for_advice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I just went to dice looking for jobs, and typed linux, and got
> more than 5,000 jobs!
I would take that with a grain of salt. Many of those jobs are from
recruiters, and recruiters all have the same cross section of jobs. I've
had dozens of recruiters try to send me to the same company for the same job
before, ever months apart.
There's like 40,000 windows jobs, but those also are lots of duplicates.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: C++ -- Our Industry...
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:23:48 GMT
"Bruce Scott TOK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <B8LU5.162$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Tom Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >"Bruce Scott TOK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >> All you guys in all these threads are forgetting Fortran. There is a
> >> big wide world out there in which this is still dominant. And it has
> >> some of the tightest standards anywhere.
> >
> >Most of us have forgotten it for a reason. <g>
>
> You must not want to actually calculate anything :-)
>
> >> I don't think it will ever die in scientific computing (note that isn't
> >> just academic either...).
> >
> >My dream is Fortran making a death pact with RPG and COBOL.
>
> COBOL will apparently outlive everything!
COBOL...The cockroach of computer languages!
--
Tom Wilson
Go home Al....
Game over, man!
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:30:30 GMT
"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <9006h8$5rl9v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> >"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:91IU5.152$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> >> I'm not above admitting that they've made some drastic improvements. A
lot
> >> of Windows' problems had to do with supporting the MS-DOS legacy and
I'm
> >> sure it wasn't easy for them. I'm glad to see they've finally buried
it.
> >> Their developer support is MUCH better too. Aside from its' occasional
> >> brain-farts, I rather like NT for casual desktop use. It sure as hell
> >beats
> >> 95/98 as a development platform.
> >>
> >> For heavy-duty, mission-critical stuff, though - MS just hasn't cut the
> >> mustard yet.
> >>
> >> When someone shows me an MS OS that doesn't inexplicably die after a
week
> >of
> >> heavy server activity - Or an MS workstation that doesn't BSOD several
> >times
> >> a week - Or an MS OS that doesn't need restarted everytime an
application
> >or
> >> component (other than a service release) is added or removed, I'll
> >consider
> >> it a serious OS. Until then I and the other "idiots" won't be overly
> >> impressed.
> >
> >You want a heavy server that would run for a week? NT 4(!) can do it.
> >(Although, that is not my defination of server)
> >You want a workstation that doesn' crash several times a week? NT 4(!)
can
> >do it.
>
> This is a crucial part of the problem. I want (and have with Linux)
> a workstation which doesn't crash at all. It doesn't suffer
> unpredictable responsiveness because it has a poor network layer.
> It has a viable security model, it supports a massive range of
> free software. It is amazingly well documented. It is based around
> open standards.
>
> But most of all, it doesn't crash. I'm absolutely sick to death
> of rebooting Microsoft OSs. I'm beginning to feel like I've been
> doing it for the whole of my life (which is not true, but after
> so many years, it doesn't seem like much to expect stability).
>
> If monopolies could provide high quality goods at keen prices,
> I probably wouldn't worry about them. Unfortunately, they don't.
> They produce poor quality goods at high prices. So I avoid
> buying from monopolies.
>
> Equally, I don't like most popular music, I don't buy the clothes
> that the marketing man tells me to, I don't by the nasty mass-
> produced beer that is pasteurised crap, I drive a car with a
> life expectancy of 27 years, not 2. I use audio amplifiers
> which I recovered from my first maintenance job, yes, they use
> valves (tubes if you're american). They still work. I have
> other amps which use germanium power transistors, because silicon
> ones weren't up to it at the time. Should I replace them? NO -
> they still work!
Makes my Pioneer SA-740 amplifier sound state of the art <g>
Never upgrade audio equipment! They make such garbage now!
>
> It's obviously a world very far away from the one you live in.
I still use my 1935 Underwood typewriter sometimes...
(Antique collector)
>
> It's a world where everything works, all of the time, it does'nt
> need permanent maintenance activity, rebooting or whatever. The
> colour isn't important unless the content is right.
I also come from the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" school of thought.
>
> I also have some sheep, but that's another tale entirely!
Hmmmm....Let's not go there, all right? <g>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (J.C.)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 30 Nov 2000 17:30:57 +1100
On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:28:18 +0200, Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>> Let me ask you again. Why should I trust TPC over my own judgement? If I
>was a Holocaust
>> survivor, should I take the word of a Holocaust revisionist just because
>he might be a better
>> historian than me?
>>
>> Why should I trust TPC over my own judgement? My own judgement tells me
>that NT/2k falls over
>> where Unix doesn't; what, that's bullshit, because some corporation
>disagrees?
>
>Because it's a industry standard?
You just get worse and worse. Should I not trust my judgement, based on my empirical
observation, over some study/research group, just because they have a big name for
themselves
and I don't?
What you're saying here is that I should place my faith blindly in an organization
because TPC
has a reputation to uphold? Why? As I keep saying (and as you keep dodging): Why
should I
trust TPC over my own judgement?
(because they have a big name for themselves? ha, ha. I'm laughing already...)
--
J.C.
"The free flow of information along data highways being piped into our
homes and offices will permit unimaginable control by a small elite..."
-- 'The Thunder of Justice', pg. 264
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: C++ is very alive!
Date: 30 Nov 2000 06:32:02 GMT
On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:47:46 -0800, Salvador Peralta wrote:
>
>@sorted_data = sort(@data);
># yes, that's an exaggeration, but you get the idea
How about
data.sort();
>proficient at c or c++ than it does with perl, python java, php, etc. It
I found it didn't take very long to get familiar with C++. When I started
seriously studying it, I was very well versed in "OO perl". The main
thing that baffled me for a while was polymorphism in a statically typed
system. I mean, polymorphism is sort of obvious in perl, but not so
when you have strong typing.
>takes longer to develop with c or c++ than it does with those higher
I read a book that said that studies have shown that time per line of
code is more or less language invariant, which would seem to imply
that higher level languages do indeed result in code getting written
faster. There could be some merit in taking this approach, and for
example using python, then writing performance critical parts of the
program in C or C++. One could adopt a similar strategy with perl,
by writing modules in C.
>level languages, and and with the majority of tasks, the benefit simply
>doesn't outweigh the cost.
"The majority of tasks" is a very vague statement. If you have a program
that does a whole bunch of different tasks, then you'll want speed in at
least the performance critical parts of the program.
And in C++, it is usually only the performance critical parts of the code
that use dangerous and hard to write/read code. For example, if you don't
care about performance, you can avoid arrays and just use vector<> or
list<>. And for things like GUI programming, a well designed toolkit will
minimise the need for memory management (eg in Qt, you only need to
worry about the top level widget. It manages all its children.)
>a few others. It's nice to see that the marketplace is shifting to make
>things freely available on all platforms. Money should never keep people
>from learning a skillset in this industry.
I agree. The other development I'm very pleased with is that there is
a very good C++ book available for free ( Eckel's book ). Until recently,
you had to buy a book, and for a starving undergrad student, a good C++
book is really hard on the wallet.
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 00:35:07 -0600
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Mandrake 7.2 is stable.
>
> The original poster is a LIAR.
Mandrake 7.2 isn't bad, but it's not what i'd call stable. I had lots of
problems out of the box myself, especially video related. Mandrake 7.2
installs XFree86 4.0.1 by default and there seems to be many problems with
the chipset specific servers in this version. It completely fails to load
the tseng ET6000 driver on an ET6000 based card, and the SVGA driver gives
random results in many cases.
Also, since 7.2 comes with a pre-release version of KDE 2, you need to
upgrade to get the final. I had lots of problems with KDE until upgrading.
Finally, there were little problems. For instance, the Mandrake support web
page says that MandrakeUpdate is installed as an icon on your desktop. It's
not. But even worse, MandrakeUpdate isn't installed at all. You have to
manually install it from the CD, then you have to load DrakConf to get to it
(or run it from the command line). Then you have to update MandrakeUpdate
itself before you can install KDE2 final.
Of course there are more manual ways to do these things, but this is the
Mandrake suggested method, and it doesn't work like they say it does.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:38:13 GMT
"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <i8HU5.143$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tom Wilson wrote:
> >
> >"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Patrick Raymond Hancox wrote:
> >> >
> >> > "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > > What do you have to prove with that post? Look at Windows 2000 Pro,
> >650MB,
> >> > a
> >> > > base installation, compare that to, say, Redhat Linux, which maybe
a
> >> > little
> >> > > bigger in size, but includes valuable third party tools such as
tar,
> >gzip,
> >> > > and StarOffice.
> >> >
> >> > a single UDMA66 20Gb drive sells for about $180 or so, last i looked.
> >650Mg
> >> > (which, i'm guessing, includes your page file) is not much of a
problem.
> >>
> >> Bloat-ware is bloatware, no matter how much it costs.
> >>
> >> Bloat is one of the reasons why LoseDOS performance SUCKS!
> >
> >That'd change if CS students were forced, for at least one semester, to
> >write assembly code for a small 65xx based system with 8K. Learning how
to
> >do things compactly and efficiently would be the result.
> >
> >
> >--
> >Tom Wilson
> >A Computer Programmer who wishes he'd chosen another vocation.
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >
>
> How about a pascal compiler - there're 2 index registers on
> a 6502 - it should be possible :)
Although I'm BIG fan of Pascal, (Used Borland's compilers for years and
still use 7.0 for DOS "quickies") I think assembly is an excellent teaching
tool in that it forces a student to really THINK his algorithms through. It
also give a great deal of insight into how a computer actually works on a
logical level.
I'm also quite sadistic at times and would love nothing more than to assign
a large project, with floating point math, using the above mentioned
hardware, to some pimply faced kid who learned on Visual Basic! Hee Hee Hee.
--
Tom Wilson
Go home Al....
Game over, man!
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:42:23 GMT
"PLZI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:CXkV5.2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> By god, intelligent reply. Thank you very much, saved my day.
>
> However, if I've understood correctly, the GUIDs coming back in the
Auth_data
> field inside the ticket can be discarded silently. If the unices do not
have
> any use of them, they won't simply be used. They are a part of
authorization,
> not authentication. The ticket is still valid.
>
> - PLZI
The question is not 'how can a standard kerberos client authenticate against
a pay-per-client Win2k non-standard server', the question is 'how can a
competitive server capable of authenticating clients participating in a
win2k
domain as well as standard clients be written'. The point of standards
is that they work both ways - otherwise they aren't standard and should
not be allowed to claim they are.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (J.C.)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 30 Nov 2000 17:44:26 +1100
On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:12:49 +0000, mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>>No one *need* 1500 apps on a machine.
If someone needs to do 1500 different things, then they'll have to install 1500
different apps. This ain't MS Office/windows/other shitty MS products that try
to do _everything_ (and screw everything up royally in the process...)
>Ah, you know so little. Look up debian and see what you can have,
>fully automatically installed. A mere 1500 is nothing. You really
>have swallowed the microsoft line here.
Dude, you're forgetting SuSE and their half-dozen or so CDs... ;)
[snip]
>Welcome to a grown up world, Ayende.
... although we know you don't like it very much ... :-p
--
J.C.
"The free flow of information along data highways being piped into our
homes and offices will permit unimaginable control by a small elite..."
-- 'The Thunder of Justice', pg. 264
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: C++ -- Our Industry...
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 06:45:36 GMT
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bruce Scott TOK wrote:
> >In article <B8LU5.162$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >Tom Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>"Bruce Scott TOK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >>> All you guys in all these threads are forgetting Fortran. There is a
> >>> big wide world out there in which this is still dominant. And it has
> >>> some of the tightest standards anywhere.
> >>
> >>Most of us have forgotten it for a reason. <g>
> >
> >You must not want to actually calculate anything :-)
I write mostly business applications, thank God! The only non-business
related stuff i've done was interfacing to CNC milling machines and lathes.
Not much high-octane math there to speak of either...
<snip>
--
Tom Wilson
Go home Al....
Game over, man!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (J.C.)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 30 Nov 2000 17:48:04 +1100
On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 00:24:46 +0200, Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>Who proved Win2k to not be stable.
>Answer the question.
Ayende, you seem not to comprehend that whether or not something is `stable'
is purely subjective. To you, 2k is stable because it's an un-crashy _desktop_.
To me, 2k is not stable because it can't stay up as a _server_ for any length of
time without falling over.
So, as I keep saying, until you get me the source (which I can peruse and point out
faults to
you) we will have to rely on our empirical observation and our judgement in `proving'
2k to
be unstable...
--
J.C.
"The free flow of information along data highways being piped into our
homes and offices will permit unimaginable control by a small elite..."
-- 'The Thunder of Justice', pg. 264
------------------------------
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