Linux-Advocacy Digest #561, Volume #29 Tue, 10 Oct 00 00:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: The Power of the Future! ("Chad Myers")
Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop ("James Stutts")
Re: The Power of the Future! ("Chad Myers")
Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It.... (Jacques Guy)
Re: Off-topic Idiots (Was Bush v. Gore on taxes) ("Joe Malloy")
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes ("Chad Myers")
Re: Winvocates and Linvocates: What do you use your desktop OS for? ("Chad Myers")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum ("Chad Myers")
Re: How low can they go...? ("JS/PL")
Re: The Power of the Future! (Dolly)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (Richard)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (John Lockwood)
Change the TV channel, buy a new computer, yeah, same thing (not!) (Raffael
Cavallaro)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("JS/PL")
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("JS/PL")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:53:47 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Richard in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Roberto Teixeira wrote:
>> >>>>> "Roberto" == Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> >> > >And H2O isn't the same thing as water. > > Pretty much.
>> >>
>> >> Not even close.
>>
>> Roberto> I should ask you why, but I will not.
>>
>> Ok, I hate to interrupt your discussion, but I just *have* to know why
>> H2O is not water...
>
>Because ponds are not lakes. H2O is a water molecule while 'water' even
>if completely pure, is the most complex substance known to humankind.
>H2O doesn't have a freezing point or boiling point, water does. H2O does
>not expand when frozen (as it does not freeze) while water does. H2O does
>not crystallize into a dozen different forms of ice, water does.
>
>H2O is thought of as "individuals" in a random collection. That's not
>what water is. The fact that 'individuals in a random collection' does
>not exist as far as any left-winger is concerned, is not very relevant.
It seems to me that you are confusing (or 'arbitrarily constructing', if
you want) the designation "H20" to mean a single molecule of water,
rather than water, as it correctly does. 'H20' is not a water molecule;
it is *the* water molecule (or symbols for it) used as a designation for
the substance made up of such molecules. You see how that works?
Perhaps you simply forgot this, as it is a somewhat metaphorical
reference. Kind of like saying "man" when you mean all men, as in "man
has existed for hundreds of thousands of years, or more."
>I'm just following a simple law of language evolution: if two different
>words exist then they have two different meanings. I don't care that one
>of those meanings is a figment of people's imagination; so is 'unicorn',
>'individualism', 'free-market' and even 'free will'.
But you confuse this simple law with a simplistic assumption that all
different meanings are separate formal, rather than merely contextual
and transient, definitions. When one says "Gimme some H20", you are
generally asking for more than a small number of water molecules. A
related usage which would be useful to compare would be DNA.
I'm not sure what that last sentence is for, but one of the figments in
my imagination is something called "trolling", which certainly looks
like what you were doing.
Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Power of the Future!
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:52:26 GMT
"Dolly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > The thing they seem to be missing is a report of what the websites serving
the greatest
> > number of hits are running for server software and OS. Take a look at
> > http://www.biznix.org/surveys/ and see that the Fortune 500 run IIS on
Windows 2.5 times
> > more than Apache on all other platforms combined. This is backed up by
> > http://www.entmag.com/displayarticle.asp?ID=6150095626AM and
> > http://www.e-gineer.com/articles/web-servers-used-at-the-top-sites.phtml.
>
> Unfortunately, our experience is that 3-6 times the
> Win2K/NT hardware is required to match a Linux/Apache
> Warp/Domino install BSD/Apache install...
> then again, even MS knows this, so HotMail still runs
> BSD/Apache and only the front page runs on IIS to
> thinly veil that fact... in years not even they
> could get it to work with 10 times the servers. Those
> are also facts you can look up in a number of
> magazines - and this time I wont even bother to
> provide the links.
<sigh>
Do you idiots have a centralized lies and mistruths distribution
web site?
IIS has kicked Apache's but up and down in several well known
benchmarks, especially in dynamic performance with ISAPI vs
CGI and other APIs.
Not to mention that you're completely, totaly, and ignorantly
wrong on Hotmail.
Hotmail runs with Win2K on the front end for presentation and
a mixture of legacy Slowaris and Win2K on the back end serving
up the data.
I believe most of the actual mail handling is done with Slowaris,
but it's being phased out. It would've been too radical a change
all at once to rip everything out and replace it lock stock and
barrel.
BSD used to be on the front end, but it's performance and
scalability reached it's limits rather rapidly. Thus Win2K was
brought in to fill in where BSD left off.
Soon all the bottlenecks (Slowaris) will be eliminated.
Didn't you hear about all the custom hacks and phone calls to
Sun that Microsoft had to made once they inherited that mess from
the original owners? They had to completely replace the file system
and much of the multi-processor capabilities of Slowaris because
it just couldn't keep up. It's well documented and there were many
fixes posted to Sun's site afterwards
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "James Stutts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:51:01 -0500
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
<snip>
>
> ...which under Unix isn't too terribly difficult actually.
Your experience with the various x86 Unix-derivatives must be sparse.
JCS
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Power of the Future!
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:53:08 GMT
"dc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:36:03 -0400, Dolly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >were needed. dual processors each, 512MB RAM. Oooh the
> >joy of serving 100X the content to 10X the people on ONE
> >OS/2 box. From what I understand Linux is as proficient
> >or almost as proficent as Warp in that respect. And IBM's
> >claim is that Warp's TCP/IP stack is "the best" (not "one
> >of", or "almost") TCP/IP stack there is. Period. It shows.
> >It took till Win2K for MS to "borrow" an almost complete
> >TCP stack. They still didnt get it right. They also still
> >seem to have bound NetBIOS to port 139... how weird. Just
> >gotta send it the right commands and it suddenly responds.
> >Or just leave that 2K box on long enough for MS to start
> >sending you messages about updates you need.
>
> Duh - turn it off. It's not rocket science.
Dolly is an IBMvocate, this level of thinking IS rocket
science to him/her.
-Chad
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:57:53 +0000
From: Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You Linux folks Just Don't Get It....
Remember how it started. Someone writing:
> We don't want compilers.
> We don't need 200 different text editors.
etc, etc.
Judging from what this someone has been
occupying her time, really all she wants
is:
a newsreader
I believe the latest mobile phones let
you access the news. You Linux folks really
just don't get it, do you:
> We don't want computers (except those
> that come pre-wrapped in microwave ovens
> coffee-makers and tamagotchis, and ...
> pet rocks!)
------------------------------
From: "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Off-topic Idiots (Was Bush v. Gore on taxes)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:56:27 GMT
Tholen tholes:
> > I wasn't the one preaching about off-topic posting while writing such
> > postings.
>
> You were the one preaching about "stop being a hypocrite and grow up",
> Marty.
And, obviously enough, you weren't, making you an infantile hypocrite,
Tholen.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:58:07 GMT
"Matthias Warkus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> It was the Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:35:19 GMT...
> ...and STATIC66 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:46:28 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias
> > Warkus) wrote:
> >
> > >> > On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 04:17:07 GMT, "Chad Myers"
> > >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> > Well put and all too often true. These people should be quartered and
> > >> > then shot. The children placed in homes with caring responsible
> > >> > guardians....
> > >
> > >No, thanks. This reminds me altogether too much of our past.
> > >
> > >Of course you don't have no steenking past, Mr American Guy. I know.
> >
> > No we didn't save europe from hitler or anything....
>
> It would be interesting to see what would have happened in WW2 without
> the U.S.
>
> Do you honestly think Hitler would have won? Come on!
What do you define as winning? I doubt an invasion of the U.S. would've
worked -- remember, we hadn't invaded Europe, so we still had all our
men at home -- but Europe would've been taken and fully cemented.
The Brits would or wouldn't have pulled a D-Day, regardless it would've
been far weaker than the joint (e.g. American with a few Brits,
Aussies and Canadians) assault. Hitler would've had more troops to
devote to the Soviet campaign. Hitler proved himself to make many
military blunders (namely the Soviet attack and multi-front campaigns)
so he would've squandered it eventually but not after he would've
continued the slaughter of jews, christians and just about everyone
else.
Would we (the good people) have won after that anyhow?
Needless to say, the Nazi's would've left a more permanent mark on
Paris and London.
The Ruskies probably would've eventually won (?) but the I don't
believe the Brits, Aussies, and Candians (let alone the French... laf)
would've been able to stop him alone.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Winvocates and Linvocates: What do you use your desktop OS for?
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:59:27 GMT
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On 8 Oct 2000 20:17:15 -0500, Drestin Black
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >can X create a desktop resolution of 64,000 by 64,000 at 24-bit color
> >(optionally) across multiple displays?
>
> Do you have 2500 displays that you want to make into one desktop? I
> don't, and I don't think you can put that many video cards in a PC if
> you did.
>
> 64000 / 1280 = 50, 50 displays x 50 displays = 2500 displays
>
> FWIW, XFree can use multiple displays, and it can go up to "only"
> 32kx32k in 24 or 32-bit color. Other X servers may vary.
>
>
> >Terminal Services (metaframe) can. with 128 bit encryption?
>
> Yes, running X over ssh will encrypt sessions nicely. You even get a
> choice of cyphers and ssh is nice enough to automatically set up the
> display forwarding.
I bet that's *REAL* speedy too... laf. If it's anything like SSL
performance on the web server side, it'd be almost unusable.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 03:04:19 GMT
"Zenin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> :
> : POSIX is too basic.
>
> Which is why we have UNIX98 as well. It also helps to define
> *which* POSIX spec you are talking about (NT doesn't even try
> to comply with a large amount of POSIX).
>
> : The point he's trying to make is, even though people say Unix is Unix is
> : Unix, there are still apps that only work on HP-UX, or Solaris, or Linux.
> : If they have a common API, why is this the case?
>
> 95%[1] of the API is the same. The other 5%[1] is different, mostly
> drawn along SysV vs BSD lines (except for Linux, which is its own
> special version of hell...).
>
> The incompatibilities aren't bad and are even scriptable without
> much problem (GNU autoconfig, etc).
>
> : What's to prevent Linux from one day having incompatible distributions?
>
> One day? When was the last time Linux *didn't* have highly
> incompatible distributions? A.out/ELF? libc vs glibc vs misc
> versions thereof? Kernel revs? The brain damage that is Linux
> /proc?
>
> The hundreds (yes, hundreds...) of different Linux distributions are
> at the same time both one of Linux's greatest strengths and greatest
> weaknesses.
>
> Only the ignorant would try and define Unix by Linux's history.
You're right, I was falling into the Linux is Unix trap again, my
apologies.
Does not Unix also have a checkered past in these regards? Wasn't
one of Unix's biggest downfalls (e.g. it's only on servers for the
most part, not 9x% of the desktops) it's fragmentation and
incompatibilities?
Yes, I read what you posted above (95% of the API is same, etc) but
why do I here supposed Unix experts lamenting the fragmentation
that prevented their rising to majority?
(sincere question, really, I'm not purposely trying to build a
strawman or anything. I'm genuinely interested, if, for nothing
else, computer history)
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 03:06:00 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:32:33 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:01:42 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>Stop playing semantics jedi.
> >>
> >>Next you'll be asking "and what IS Linux anyway?"
> >
> > When addressing "who" is "trying" what it is rather relevant.
> >
> > Just who do you percieve trying to represent Linux as being
> > able to go toe to toe with a Starfire or VAX cluster?
>
>
> Stop changing the subject jedi.
> I made no mention of Starfire or Vax cluster.
> Desktop jedi. Desktop...
You'll have to excuse Jedi, sometimes. I don't think he
understands the concept of "desktop". Perhaps he thinks
we should all go back to giganta-mainframes with green-screen
dumb terminals?
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:08:56 -0400
Reply-To: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
(snipped 3KB of bitter spewing)
> This is not conjecture. It is not bitter spewing from a Microsoft hater.
Looks like it to me. Just fucking admit it.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:16:58 -0400
From: Dolly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Power of the Future!
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "dc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:36:03 -0400, Dolly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >were needed. dual processors each, 512MB RAM. Oooh the
> > >joy of serving 100X the content to 10X the people on ONE
> > >OS/2 box. From what I understand Linux is as proficient
> > >or almost as proficent as Warp in that respect. And IBM's
> > >claim is that Warp's TCP/IP stack is "the best" (not "one
> > >of", or "almost") TCP/IP stack there is. Period. It shows.
> > >It took till Win2K for MS to "borrow" an almost complete
> > >TCP stack. They still didnt get it right. They also still
> > >seem to have bound NetBIOS to port 139... how weird. Just
> > >gotta send it the right commands and it suddenly responds.
> > >Or just leave that 2K box on long enough for MS to start
> > >sending you messages about updates you need.
> >
> > Duh - turn it off. It's not rocket science.
>
> Dolly is an IBMvocate, this level of thinking IS rocket
> science to him/her.
>
> -Chad
Ah yes... MS says they will stop doing something.
They dont. MS lies and says they did stop. They
didnt. MS finally publicly admits they never did,
and the answer is... "ooh, just turn it off" by which
I presume you mean the machine - good answer for
a server... and since if you install TCPIP and NOT
NetBIOS, it still installs NetBIOS code that is
hard-coded into the stack I know it's not NetBIOS
you mean I should turn off.
Dolly
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:19:11 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Richard in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Roberto Alsina wrote:
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
>> > And you think that what? That this means they *could* interbreed with
>> > humans ???
>>
>> They were pretty close genetically.
>
>They weren't fucking close enough, that's all that matters.
>
>> > If we hadn't killed neanderthals, they would only have deviated from
>> > us, *NOT* interbred!
>>
>> There is no proof that we didn't interbreed, you know.
>
>Riiiiight. That they could interbreed with humans "merely" contradicts
>everything biologists know about speciation. So of course, it's "to be
>proven".
>
>What part of the above did you fail to understand, idiot?
The part about it 'contradicting everything biologists know about
speciation'. You are obviously under the impression that Neanderthals
have been genetically differentiated from homo sapiens. You don't seem
to be up on your paleontology; this is not the case. The only support
for the theory that Neanderthals were a different species at all are
minor structural deviations and geography.
Everything you apparently think is 'known' about Neanderthals seems to
be supposition from about ten years ago. Nobody claims to know whether
"we" killed *or* interbred with Neanderthals, or even how divergent they
were from homo sapiens.
[...]
>> > Only in corporations, imbecile. And that's *EXACTLY* what makes
>> > corporations psychopaths: the shareholders are absentee landlords
>> > and act with the total disregard of any absentee landlord.
>>
>> Your pseudo psych blabber is getting old.
>
>Your idiocy had gotten old to me maybe two weeks ago.
>
>> You make up the difference in your own mind and present it as fact. Even
>> though I know you can't comprehend why that seems fishy to anyone
>> outside your head, I will ask you to accept it.
>
>Man, you're a fucking moron. It doesn't "seem fishy" anymore than the
>fucking stock market does.
Roberto is certainly right on this issue. It pretty much seems 'quite
the bit of fishy' to just about everyone outside your head, Richard.
>> > The employee has no fucking choice you fucking moron!
>>
>> You can't take his $9 without his consent. Remember you are not a
>> cooperative yet.
>
>"consent or be fired"
And this is the empathic method?
[...]
>> > Man, you are an extreme right-winger. Figures. After all, the right-
>> > wing is correlated with lack of intelligence.
>>
>> Ask Aaron K. He will tell you I'm a bleeding hart liberal.
>
>What extreme right wingers think of people who don't share their *exact*
>ideology isn't relewant; there is more than one type of extreme right
>winger just like there is more than one type of extreme left winger.
>Libertarians and Fascists versus Marxists, Anarcho-Syndicalists and
>Stalinists.
And then there's Richard. ;-)
>> Your fear of inadequacy is showing. You obviously can't even understand
>> the Goedel Theorem. You can't even spell they guy's name. It's Goedel or
>> Gödel.
>
>I don't much care. Nor do I care to continue this discussion with you.
So you are a sham after all, Richard?
>And I already know that merely discussing anything with as big an idiot
>as you are will make me look like a fool. "The wise man doesn't argue
>with the fool for the passerby won't be able to tell the difference."
>Well, I'm obviously not wise enough yet.
I was really looking forward to some serious Gödel Theorem clashing.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
From: Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 03:18:08 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> It seems to me that you are confusing (or 'arbitrarily constructing', if
> you want) the designation "H20" to mean a single molecule of water,
No. It can be any number of molecules of water as long as their
properties are not significantly different from a single molecule
of water. Steam counts, ice and water do not.
> rather than water, as it correctly does. 'H20' is not a water molecule;
> it is *the* water molecule (or symbols for it) used as a designation for
Actually, it isn't. aqueous is N*[H2O] where N is 3 or 6 IIRC.
You wouldn't say that a triangle is a point so why are you
saying that a tiling pattern made up of triangles is a point?
Saying that H2O designates water is like saying that Carbon
designates diamond or graphite.
> the substance made up of such molecules. You see how that works?
> Perhaps you simply forgot this, as it is a somewhat metaphorical
> reference. Kind of like saying "man" when you mean all men, as in "man
> has existed for hundreds of thousands of years, or more."
When I say that corporations are psychopathic, I am not being
metaphorical. There's time for metaphor and when I say something
that contradicts what most people like to think, then that is
not such a time.
> But you confuse this simple law with a simplistic assumption that all
> different meanings are separate formal, rather than merely contextual
> and transient, definitions. When one says "Gimme some H20", you are
> generally asking for more than a small number of water molecules. A
> related usage which would be useful to compare would be DNA.
If someone says "give me some H2O" then they aren't saying "give me water".
You could give them ice, steam, whatever. You're correct that H2O can mean
water, but Roberto is incorrect in asserting that water can mean H2O.
------------------------------
From: John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:20:03 -0700
>
>DOS rarely crashed *AT THE COMMAND LINE* too. So what?
>
So what to which part? :-)
------------------------------
From: Raffael Cavallaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Change the TV channel, buy a new computer, yeah, same thing (not!)
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 03:15:10 GMT
In article <8rojno$ef0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Osugi Sakae"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>So there is no competition between MS Windows and Apple Mac because
>switching would require buying a new computer? No competition between ABC
>and NBC because switching would involve changing the channel? I don't buy
>that argument.
This is a really lame argument. Do you honestly think anyone sees the
purchase of a new computer as an equivalent cost to changing the TV
channel?
Buying a new computer is a *significant* cost to most of the market, and
it constrains competition to that which runs on the hardware you have
now. So, no, Apple is *not* a competitor to Microsoft, but Linux and
BeOS (for Intel) are.
Ralph
--
Raffael Cavallaro, Ph.D.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:18:49 -0400
Reply-To: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"John Lockwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:39:29 +0200, "Frédéric G. MARAND"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Can you seriously write that ?
> >
> >Or add something like "..part of the time" .
> >
> >John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message :
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> On Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:25:25 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >[...]
> >> 1) Windows works.
> >[...]
> >
>
> Well, given that I develop on NT day in and day out, and it crashes
> infrequently enough that I'm not annoyed by it, I'd say that "Windows
> works" is fair. Doesn Linux work better? All by itself, yes, but not
> when one adds XWindows.
Actually I'm quite surprised when an X windows app DOESN'T CRASH! It's
like - click the icon and pray.
I'm about ready to create shortcuts to some "pid" files just to make it
easier to run.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:24:31 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
>> >1) Treatment of publisher or speaker
>> >No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be
>> >treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided
>> >by another information content provider.
>> >
>> >(What part of this don't you understand? )
>>
>> The part where it has anything to do with what we're talking about. If
>> you want to avoid being treated like a publisher, you have to avoid
>> publishing. That means you are not at liberty to pick and choose who's
>> posts appear.
>
>Show me a reference backing this absurd statement up!
No.
>Yes you must be right about content liability and the rest of the world must
>be wrong, including courts which have ruled based on the law.
Not the rest of the world; just you.
>Here's a case where AOL has actually paid for content (just like your
>mythical newspaper publisher), not merely allowed it to exist on their
>server. And have been found immune from liability.
>http://www.techlawjournal.com/courts/drudge/Default.htm
I didn't say that was what made them newspaper publishers, that they
paid for content, did I? Well, it doesn't prevent an 'interactive
computer service' from being a common carrier.
>No matter what, you dimwit, the owner of the server is not liable for
>content on it which was created by anyone else.
As long as they only practice 'good faith' exclusion of messages, rather
than blatant and intentional censorship.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:23:04 -0400
Reply-To: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
(snipped - everything)
Hey Max! I found your soulmate!
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