Linux-Advocacy Digest #771, Volume #29 Fri, 20 Oct 00 23:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux (Grega Bremec)
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Pro Microsoft letter bounty ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Redhat and TurboLinux announce support for the entire new IBM eServer line
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: IBM to BUY MICROSOFT!!!! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Pro Microsoft letter bounty ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: who's WHINING dipshit! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Linux security? It's been a busy week. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux or Solaris (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Redhat and TurboLinux announce support for the entire new IBM (Gary Hallock)
Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Tired O'Shills)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:38:08 GMT
>>>>>>>>Actually, this sound bite comes out of the Japanese economic
boom, and can be directly traced to the fact that Japanese business and
business schools use Sun Tzu's famous work to teach business practices.
Quite correct. But the militaristic translations that are used in the
West are very much off the mark. Which is one reason why Westerners do
so poorly along the Rim.
>
> Actually, this sound bite comes out of the Japanese economic boom, and
> can be directly traced to the fact that Japanese business and business
> schools use Sun Tzu's famous work to teach business practices.
>
> > "War" then is a tactical and strategic game played by gentlemen.
--
My islands are not an archipelago but an atoll.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grega Bremec)
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:55:46 GMT
...and Weevil used the keyboard:
>
>Is it only Linux you fear?
No, it's the freedom of having a choice betweeen a variety of options
that they fear. It's no wonder, really. Some people's minds just
aren't used to being able to choose, what less having to. They simply
feel safer in the tucks of what they'd like to think of a mother-like
platform that will "take care" of whatever they think their current
problem is, ranging from corrupt icons to being forced to reboot every
now and then.
Things that aren't all that uncommon on UNIX-and-the-like platforms,
they advertise like mad, trying to make it look like at least Jesus
Christ (forgive me for bringing up his name in an unhealthy debate
like this) came down to earth and told Billy to implement it so "the
users will find it less likely to have to think about it".
We all know better than that. We know things are possible without
having to wait for divine intervention. Use the source, Luke, and the
docs, at least one has access to them (and good ones, might I add,
Linux documentation is just to start here, Solaris, BSD especially,
and others need honorable mention as well). Needless to say, source is
just the very last of millions of other resorts - like Larry Wall et.
al. use to say, TMTOWTDI.
Cheers (to all sensible people, all others included of course),
--
Grega Bremec
grega.bremec-at-gbsoft.org
http://www.gbsoft.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:07:00 GMT
On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:44:40 -0500, "Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>This is irrational. You're against using someone else's script, even though
>it is plain text and you can read it and at least have a chance of
>understanding it, on ipchains, to which you also have the source and at
>least have a chance of knowing every single thing it does.
Assuming you know what you are reading and how to modify things to fit
your particular need all the while not screwing something up that will
compromise your security.
Source code is completely useless to most end users.
BlackIce along with Sonicwall and others are used in corporations all
over the world. When there is a problem (no software is perfect) it is
identified and fixed.
>But you like using something like Blackice, to which you only have the
>binary and therefore don't know WHAT the hell it's doing, because it's
>safer???
Millions of people are using it.
>There is nothing particularly difficult about ipchains, unless you have an
>aversion to your keyboard (and considering the voluminous anti-Linux
>propaganda you produce every day, you are obviously comfortable with your
>keyboard). I knew very little about ipchains, but I was able to set it up,
>by modifying someone else's script, so that my son could play Diablo 2 on
>battlenet. The only thing that took any time was finding a suitable script
>to modify. Took maybe 10 minutes of clicking around in search engines.
Linux Magazine Issue October 1999 begs to differ with you, and
everyone else who claims firewalling is easy under Linux.
http://www.linux-mag.com/1999-10/bestdefense_01.html
>I've changed my mind -- you're not honest at all. Damn, is ANY Winvocate
>honest?
Who the hell cares what you think?
>And exactly *what* is the point of coming into a Linux advocacy group and
>spouting as much anti-Linux/pro-Microsoft bile as you can vomit? Do
>Winvocates fear Linux that much? There can be no other answer. This
>supposed advocacy group is infested with low, venomous creatures whose only
>desire is to damage that which the group exists to advocate.
It's damaged right out of the box.
>Just curious...do all you winvocates also plague the groups that advocate
>Macintosh? How about BeOS? FreeBSD?
Nope.
Mac users are a nice group as a whole and are not interested in
operating systems for the most part. They use applications, useful,
easy to use applications.
BeOS is a great system with a group of people who have a vision of
what the public at large really want a computer for. I hope it
survives.
FreeBSD folks are equally nice.
>Or is it just Linux?
Linux sucks. It really does.
>Tell us, claire. Which groups do you do this in? How about you, Mike,
>Chad, Simon, Drestin, etc? Which groups do you do this in? Tell us.
Only in COLA unless I reply to xposts.
>Is it only Linux you fear?
Fear?
See you're making a joke already.
Linux is a joke. It's really funny and the people that try to advocate
it in this group are even funnier.
Pure entertainment for me. I can't speak for the others you mentioned,
but I suspect they are howling with laughter reading this group as
well.
>jwb
claire>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Pro Microsoft letter bounty
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:02:59 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In today's WSJ "Washington WIre" column it says that Microsoft is
> paying a bounty for pro-Microsoft letters and calls through Republican
> Ralph Reed's lobbying firm. A letter to a Congressman from a mayor or
> local party official is said to be worth $200 while an op-ed piece in
> a local paper is worth 500 bucks! Wonder what a Usenet Post is worth?
> I would guess about 2 cents -- maybe we should ask Dressed-in-Black.
>
Well, at $.02(US) per post your boy DB is already working on his second
million. Wonder if he's got one of those infamous "FYIV" (fuck you, I'm
vested) lapel buttons from MSFT.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Redhat and TurboLinux announce support for the entire new IBM eServer
line
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:11:51 GMT
What does that have to do with how Linux is going to handle RAS,
concurrent maintenence, swapping and allocating CP's and storage via
PSSP?
You didn't answer my question.
claire
On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:21:29 -0400, Gary Hallock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> How are they going to handle RAS under Linux?
>>
>> Especially on the RS/6k and SP boxes?
>>
>> Concurrent maintenance depends on chrp.
>>
>> How are they going to interface Linux with PSSP code?
>>
>> claire
>>
>> And for yttrx (aka .) Do you have any idea what the above means?
>>
>> I thought not :(
>
>You think wrong. Or rather you don't think at all. IBM is using
>Linux as a common platform for it's entire eServer line. There are
>many people inside IBM working on Linux. You have no idea how
>much work IBM is putting into Linux being successful.
>
>Gary
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM to BUY MICROSOFT!!!!
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:16:37 -0400
Weevil wrote:
>
> Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > At least they can detect RAM in every PC out there. Linux
> > > > can't seem to do this on even a small number of them.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well first of all, that is an unfair statment.
> > >
> > > In the free software community it takes a while to get things working
> > > right (many versions/people).
> >
> > And often never gets it right. See HPT366 on ABIT BP6.
>
> How come Windows can't detect all the partitions on a hard drive?
>
> > > Remember
> > > that only recently has Linux used loadable device drivers.
> >
> > Good to see you all in the 20th century now.
>
> Mike, is it true that Win2K has to reboot when you install a driver? All
> other versions of Windows force you to reboot seemingly when you make the
> slightest configuration change. Is Win2K still like that?
>
> > > I
> > > am not going to say that either is better than the other.
> >
> > Windows is better.
> >
>
> Well, no, it isn't. As it turns out, Linux is better.
>
> > > Linux is
> > > unarguably faster,
> >
> > Wrong. Post a faster graphics card result.
>
> What do graphic cards have to do with OS performance? If a card performs
> better under one OS than it does under another, it is the driver, not the
> OS.
>
> When you want your graphics card to go faster, do you look for an upgrade to
> your OS? No, you look for the latest and greatest driver from the card
> vendor.
>
> > > If you check out the latest
> > > versions of KNOME and KDE you'd be suprized how good it looks!
> >
> > But so much slower due to minimal acceleration support.
>
> Much faster than Winbloat.
>
> > > Looks
> > > BETTER than windows in my opionion,
> >
> > Looks like shit compared to Windows 200 IMO.
> >
>
> To you, everything looks like shit compared to Win2K. Your opinion is
> therefore worthless.
>
> > > and you can use a simple interface
> > > like QT to program for it! (C++)
> >
> > Or right to Win32/64 or MFC or Java or whatever else in Windows.
>
> MFC, that OO wannabe that never quite cut it? I thought Microsoft finally
> caved in to embarassment and stopped supporting/upgrading it.
>
> As for Java, do you mean the bastardized version that Microsoft foisted on
> the public with the utterly meaningless (and unoriginal) name of J++?
>
> As for Win32/64...you mean Windows is finally 32 bit, without all that
> kludgy 16-bit stuff they never could seem to get beyond? Hey,
> congratulations. Welcome to the 80s, you guys!
>
> > > and Linux has become very viable (however it was only able
> > > to detect 4MB of the 16MB VRAM in my Riva TNT [RH ver6.2] =< )
> >
> > Or the 256 MB RAM in myBP6 mobo. Sad ain't it.
>
> Windows detects 3 gigs on my 8 gig hard drive. Linux, of course knows about
> all partitions and can read and write to all file systems on the drive.
>
> > > Please don't bad mouth Linux, it is a great
> > > operating system, and was developed by a great many programmers all
> > > collaborating and giving there skills.
> >
> > Most are college students. Great is relative. My hat is off to the
> > Trolltech crew and the KDE folks. Gnome isn't too bad too. Just don't
> > think they are up to Windows desktop standards 'cause they are not. They
> > still have to deal with X.
>
> X rulez, d00d.
>
> The Windows GUI doesn't have a tenth of the ability X was designed with from
> the beginning. You must not know very much about X, other than what your
> Microsoft manuals tell you.
>
> > > At least the linux programmers
> > > can develop stable versions before release (something Microsoft has
> > > never been able to do with Windows because of market pressure).
> >
> > Post proof of X being more stable than Windows 2000 please.
>
> Post proof that Microsoft has ever had an operating system as stable as
> Linux. You obviously can't since they never have. And since they have
> always lied about it and *claimed* stability superior to that of Linux, why
> should we believe their current claims? We've heard it all before.
>
> > > Well please feel free to respond to this, its not a flame just a
> > > suggesto-question. Sorry for any off-topic cross posts.
> >
> > No problem. I hope I did set you straight. Where'd you get these lies?
> > College? Or a Liunx advocacy forum? I can help you see the light -- I
> > offer to educate you on Windows technology. Would you like that?
>
> Heh. If he listens to a word you say, the last thing he'll be is educated.
>
> Hey, when are you guys gonna shave your heads and wear robes and start
> singing Windows Carols in airports?
I'd be happy if they just doused themselves in gasoline and set themselves
on fire....the way all good cultists do.
>
> jwb
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pro Microsoft letter bounty
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:17:27 -0400
Timothy Miller wrote:
>
> In today's WSJ "Washington WIre" column it says that Microsoft is
> paying a bounty for pro-Microsoft letters and calls through Republican
> Ralph Reed's lobbying firm. A letter to a Congressman from a mayor or
> local party official is said to be worth $200 while an op-ed piece in
> a local paper is worth 500 bucks! Wonder what a Usenet Post is worth?
> I would guess about 2 cents -- maybe we should ask Dressed-in-Black.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Translation: Goth Loser.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: who's WHINING dipshit!
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:20:03 -0400
Weevil wrote:
>
> Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:39f068cc$0$4797$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > >
> > > The best (graphics) cards have the drivers written for IRIX first.
> >
> > I think that depends on what you mean by best and in what context. If you
> > mean, "the card that can do THE most amazing stuff fastest with no
> > restrictions on cost, availablity, OS compatibility or application" then
> > there might be many that we could consider. I believe in this context
> we're
> > talking about PC video cards. PC Video cards have their best drivers
> written
> > for Windows first and the card simply does not get built without them -
> > linux support is an afterthought.
> >
>
> Someone said in another thread that you were just pretending to understand
> nearly everything about computers. Is that true? Are you just pretending,
> or do you really understand all the hard stuff?
Isn't it obvious that Dressed-in-shit doesn't understand nearly
as much as he claims.
>
> jwb
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Linux security? It's been a busy week.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:28:31 GMT
http://www.linuxsecurity.com/vuln-newsletter.html
Better get going Linonuts.
It's going to be a busy week.
claire
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux or Solaris
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:34:32 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi,
>
> we are currently developing a business a plan for a rather
> large e-commerce site.
>
> I am trying to figure out which is the best direction to
> go concerning server and database technology. One possibility,
> of course would be to walk the SUN/Oracle path. But you can buy
> 20 Linux boxes for the price of one sun server. So Linux might
> be the way to go. On the other hand, I heard the Oracle for
> Linuy is supposed to suck. So if we go with Linux which database
> would you recommend and how well do they compared to Oracle.
Just a suggestion:
Start with Linux. If you decide you really need to upgrade to a Sun
E450 or E-10K, you'll still have the option. Most people don't have
that much trouble making the transition.
When your using a relational database on Linux, it's a really
good idea to follow the ISVs suggestions. Oracle likes to have
several raw partitions on separate drives, and RAID-1 if you need
redunancy and speed at the same time. Caldera offers a
Linux/Oracle 8i combination.
I've also had pretty good resultss with Sybase and DB2 on Linux.
I found DB2 to be very easy to set up, especially without using raw
partitions. For optimal performance, I'd use raw partitions here
too.
If you have very limited update sources, or your funnelling updates
through a message queue, you might want to look at MySQL. It's very
fast, but isn't designed for lots of interactive interleaved updates.
The nice thing is that you can use ODBC and switch to commercial
databases later for more volitile information.
Usually, you need to balance support cost, client access cost and
support requirements as well as the MSRP. If you're using Oracle
Enterprise on a big server, you have to license each user no matter
how many proxies you went through.
Make sure that you have a consistent and reliable definition of
the access license. Sometimes a vendor will use "Concurrent
Connections" the first year, but not stipulate that in the contract.
The following year the definition will be changed to "Multiplexed Access
over a peak-hour period", because result sets are being retained for
30 minutes.
On the other hand, if you have a vendor/DBA combination that can provide
24/7 support, remote support, and can fly consultants to your sight on
48 hours notice, this may be significant.
Most of the database vendors have the ability to provide outstanding
performance with a combination of configuration and tuning, all of
which can be contained through their consulting branches.
Even MySQL and ProgreSQL can be supported with good consulting
contracts. IBM and LinuxCare offer services, but there are
hundreds of other smaller local providers as well.
> I appreciate you comments,
>
> Malte Ubl
>
--
Rex Ballard - I/T Architect, MIS Director
Linux Advocate, Internet Pioneer
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 50 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month! (recalibrated 8/2/00)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:50:18 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> And if you knew anything about DOS you would know that DOS 4.0 was the
> worst version released by far.
>
> claire
And the best example of Microsoft's work in a competitive environment.
They were trying to copy just some of the features that DrDOS already
added and botched it badly. This is a company that wants to make
claims about innovation? If it hadn't been for DrDOS we'd probably
still be stuck with 32 meg disk partitions.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:59:46 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Redhat and TurboLinux announce support for the entire new IBM
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What does that have to do with how Linux is going to handle RAS,
> concurrent maintenence, swapping and allocating CP's and storage via
> PSSP?
>
> You didn't answer my question.
>
> claire
>
Well, that's because I don't know the answer (do you?) - my area of
expertise in S/390. But I do know the RS/6000 people quite well -
I've traveled to Austin to many times and they visit me. And I am
confident that what you seem to think are problems, are not.
Gary
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A classic example of unfriendly Linux
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:03:32 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Try clicking on the help icon in BlackIce.. Duhhhh!
>
> IPChains/masquerading/forwarding and all of the other hostile Linux
> firewall scripts DO have online help I assume?
>
> claire
RedHat 7.0 includes 2 GUI programs to build the configuration
if you can't figure out how to cut and paste from the HOWTO.
There are probably others. Personally I think being forced
to point and click where someone else thought you should
in a different way for every program is much more hostile
than editing a text file - especially the 2nd time when you
only need to copy the text file.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Tired O'Shills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:11:28 -0700
As predicted, FUD-boy wimps out.
In case there's anyone who honestly doesn't know, Fred Langa has written columns
for Windows Magazine, Information week, Byte, Popular Computing, and others. He
was (is?) editorial director for Windows Magazine, prior to that he was the
editor-in-chief for Byte magazine, and before that, editor of Popular Computing.
You've heard of at least some of these, right Simon? Fred is no Microsoft
basher, just ask anyone who actually knows something about the computer scene.
But, then, I guess we can't compare Fred's veracity with Simon Cooke's, who,
after all, worked for Microsoft for, what was it again? Oh yeah, something like
8 months. Tell me Simon, if you did a search and found this article, why do you
have to ask who Fred Langa is? Why hide this source if you knew about it? No
need to answer, I know why.
But, Fred is, after all, only one source. Here's another. In the book "Hard
Drive", by James Wallace & Jim Erickson, in the chapter titled "Growing Pains",
the same quote is reported from another source. Also, details of problems
encountered by Lotus 1-2-3 are provided. That's two sources. Way more than the
"one SHRED of proof" you asked for. But I won't hold my breath waiting for you
to honor your word.
Again, Simon, your denials are just bullshit. I knew you would excrete some hand
waving twaddle to weasel out of your challenge, so it's no surprise to see you
renege. No amount of evidence will ever be sufficient for you, as you see no
truth, hear no truth and speak no truth.
Simon Cooke wrote:
> "Tired O'Shills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Oooh! I'm being taunted by an anonymous person! Better get that flameproof
> suit on. Or phone my mummy.
>
> > It's easy to verify the fact that this phrase was regularly used by Steve
> > Ballmer. As reported by Fred Langa (in his 09/02/98 column titled
> "Reasonable
> > Doubt?"):
> >
> > Years ago, I asked top Microsoft executive Steve
> > Ballmer about the stories that claimed he'd shout
> > "DOS ain't done until Lotus won't run" at DOS
> > product manager's meetings. He said the statement
> > was out of context, and that it referred to adding
> > legitimate new features to DOS (a perfectly legal and
> > good way to compete); it didn't refer to planting
> > software booby traps to create artificial barriers to
> > competing products (a sleazy and possibly illegal
> > way to compete).
>
> Really? He's the only person who seems to be able to 'verify' it at all.
> Interestingly, not much detail is given ('years ago'? what kind of crap is
> that?).
>
> Do a search for "Lotus won't run" and "Ballmer" -- you'll get just one that
> makes any claims that Ballmer ever even said it.
>
> I'd say that one article for such a well-known phrase is kind of odd,
> wouldn't you?
>
> Who the hell is Fred Langa anyway?
>
> Hmmm... he must have a major scoop! So why isn't he crowing about it? Why
> haven't we heard more?
>
> Because -- my guess -- is HE'S WRONG.
>
> I've done an extensive internet search for anything with the phrase "Lotus
> won't run" -- and Fred's is the only article that claims to have any
> evidence.
>
> Now, don't you think that if it was true, there would be more than *ONE*
> link that claims this?
>
> > Anyway, Simon knows that the standard of proof he requires is
> unachievable.
> > Therefore he feels safe to deny everything and make any bet without risk.
> But
> > that denial is just bullshit.
>
> Really? Wow. That's news to me. I'd just like to see some evidence. A memo.
> A name.
>
> > Tell you what, Simon. You honor you're bet, and I'll gladly post "Simon
> Cooke
> > Has Integrity"
> > in my signature for the rest of my Usenet days. I figure that's equivalent
> to
> > the risk you took, which is to say: none.
>
> Oh, Mr. Tired O'Shills, I don't have to do ANYTHING for you. How about you
> go back and come up with some firm evidence instead of hearsay?
>
> And posting anonymously? Wow. That's a fine way to speak about "integrity".
>
> Simon (aka. Tired O' Tired O' Shills)
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
