Linux-Advocacy Digest #239, Volume #30 Tue, 14 Nov 00 19:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Debian Sells Stale Beef (Ioi Lam)
Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here... (David Dorward)
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (The Ghost In The
Machine)
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? (James Hutchins)
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? (James Hutchins)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? (James Hutchins)
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? (Matthias Warkus)
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? (Matthias Warkus)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Bruce Schuck")
Re: OS stability ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years? (Jerry L Kreps)
Re: I WANT WIN2k drivers!
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Marty)
Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup ("crystalnight heavy industries")
Re: Journaling FS Question (Was: Re: Of course, there is a down side...) (Gary
Hallock)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion.
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:00:49 -0500
Tore Lund wrote:
>
> Les Mikesell wrote:
> >
> > "Tore Lund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > > > Under
> > > > > Windows best thing would be install new disk with the software that
> > > > > comes with it (partitioning program) and re-install from the image CD
> > > > > included with the machine.
> > > >
> > > > Then it could take weeks to install all your software on top of that.
> > >
> > > This is completely trivial to do under Windows 95/98 (not sure about
> > > Win2K). You have your old disk in C: and a new, formatted disk in D:.
> > > Make sure all files are visible in Windows Explorer, then copy and paste
> > > everything EXCEPT c:\windows\win386.swp to the new disk. That's it.
> > > You can now swap disks, move jumpers and boot again.
> > >
> > > (Note: This is a VERY brief description for people who understand what
> > > they are doing. But it really is that simple...)
> >
> > And you just ignore all those "can't open" file errors during such a
> > copy and hope it isn't anything you need? Anything running or
> > open will fail to copy.
>
> Hmmm. There are no such messages so I believe you are wrong here.
>
You're pulling this out of your ass, aren't you?
> But if you know these things, maybe you can tell me why the copy and
> paste operation outlined above should behave differently from "cp -a" in
> Linux? Conceptually, they should be doing the same thing.
> --
> Tore Lund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:07:10 -0500
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:kWFP5.19689$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
> > > > > By talking about tighter control I'm talking about the ability to
> > grant
> > > > > different file permissions to individuals or groups to much higher
> > > degree
> > > > > than I can on linux.
> > > >
> > > > That isn't 'tighter'. It is just the ability to let your permissions
> > > > diverge
> > > > from your group definitions.
> > >
> > > Which is highly useful all too often.
> >
> > Have you run out of names for groups?
>
> No, but why would I want to create groups all the time?
In practice, this is a VERY, rare occurance.
maybe 1 or 2 times per year, at most.
> Two people, on different groups, one works on a file (full control), the
> other need to view it but not modify it (read access).
> In NT/2K I can make it happens in about a minute.
In Unix/Linux, this takes NO TIME, as this is the default.
> How long would that take me in linux/unix?
0.0000000000000000 SECONDS
> I don't want to create a group for them, because that is the only connection
> between those two people.
You don't need to.
There are THREE bit-fields for each file
Owner Group "OTHER"
The person falls into the group "OTHER"
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Ioi Lam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Debian Sells Stale Beef
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:08:14 -0800
Now I've opened the shrink-wrapped box. It doesn't even come with a
floppy boot disk. Talk about convenience.
Ioi Lam wrote:
>
> I wanted to do some PocketLinux development (www.pocketlinux.com) and
> they recommended Debian. So I drive down to my local store to get myself
> a copy. There is no production date on the box, no version number, no
> Linux version, no expiration date. Do they expect their users to be
> homeless crack addicts that will put anything down their throat?
>
> So much about the most open Linux distribution on the planet. They are
> not even open about when they make the CD.
>
> Well, I bought it anyway because I feared the PocketLinux stuff will go
> up in flames on other Linux distributions. I bought a RedHat box as well
> just in case (and RedHat tells me what its version is!)
>
> Well, Debian, if you think you're promoting Linux, wake up! That's not
> gonna work if all your paying customers are either zealots or suckers.
------------------------------
From: David Dorward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Same old Linux..Nothing new here...
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:13:05 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >* Delete it
> >* Edit it in console mode
> >* Log on as a different user and edit it
> >* Restore it from backup in console mode
> >* Restore it from backup while logged in as another user.
> This guy can't even make his mouse work and you expect him to know how
> to do all of that?
No, just one of them. That's why there are called OPTIONS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:16:57 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Craig Kelley
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on 13 Nov 2000 15:55:37 -0700
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>"Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Nope. The problem definitely was local delivery. You put the staff of a
>> medium sized university onto 4 or 5 mailling lists of 300-800 each. If a hot
>> and heavy email discussion gets going it generates 20-50 messages a day
>> going out to all those users.
>>
>> Guess what. The Unix admins tell people to stop discussing. They tell them
>> to use other methods.
>>
>> Sendmail can't handle it.
>
>Get new UNIX admins.
>
>We not only have lists that big, but we also virus check every single
>message for virii.
>
>The Linux machine (dual PIII/550) has plenty of spare CPU cycles for
>much more traffic than we have now.
CPU? For an I/O problem?
Still, lessee: 5 mailing lists, 800 people on the list, no
cross-linking, 50 messages per day, 10K per message
= 2 GB per day, or 231 Kb/second.
Not even enough to overflow a good ISDN line and Bruce thinks it'll
overflow sendmail? It might overflow spool space, but that's all.
Color me confused. I will admit Exchange tries to do it better,
though -- mostly because it doesn't save a duplicate of the message
into each user's mailbox. However, I do understand that another poster
suggested that sendmail can stuff the mail directly onto the user's
home directory; that would work very well in this case.
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (James Hutchins)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:06:18 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I hope that the two projects merge in the future in a language less
> > sucky than either C or C++.
>
> Agreed. They should write it in Java. That way, KDE and GNOME could run on
> an array of embedded applications (such as the Palm pilot). We'll
> see a lot less of Windows CE. I'm tired of seeing Windows CE running on
> embedded applications.
>
> - Donn
>
Java? Please, NO! I have a NEED for SPEED!! I don't think even hotspot can
make up for the performance hit I'd take with java. When doing complex
analyses on up to 10 gigs of byte-sized time series data, even a 15% speed
hit is significant. So why accept it when you can just use C++?
--J
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (James Hutchins)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:08:49 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Kjetil Torgrim Homme
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> > The one thing I think is silly about the current open source mentality
> > is that many of them, particularly the gnome people, are passionately
> > anti-c++.
>
> * No standards for name mangling, leading to backwards compatibility
> horrors.
> * Very hard to make bindings to languages other than C++.
> * You can easily make a C++ binding for a C framework, so why not do
> it the other way around?
>
> The Unix ABI is based on C. Live with it.
>
>
> Kjetil T.
I see this as a non issue. I use C++, why should I worry about binding to
something other than C++ when the whole Qt/KDE environment makes it
unnecessary?
Thanks
--J
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:29:33 -0500
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > Slow? You must have it confused with the windows help system. It
> > > isn't slow.
> >
> > Slow, yes.
> > I'm not talking performance wise, I'm talking reading wise.
> > You get the point?
> > I can pull things out of my memory much faster than a page or a screen.
>
> Maybe, if it hasn't changed since you memorized it - and this is
> exactly the same version.
>
> > > It doesn't hurt to remember them, but it isn't necessary on Linux. How
> > > many versions and their variants can you remember at once, or do
> > > you insist on only working on machines that you already know?
> >
> > You were the one that insisted that you don't need to learn anything to
> > handle computers.
>
> You don't and generally shouldn't if you want to be able to work
> with a variety of machines and different versions of things. You
> just need to know how to quickly find the details for the things
> you may never have seen before. On unix-like boxes, the man
> pages usually provide exactly that. On of the reasons I dislike
> windows is that there is no equivalent, so for windows machines
> you are probably right that you do have to learn a lot of stuff before
> doing anything.
Precisely
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (James Hutchins)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:23:26 -0500
Thought those of you here reading this thread might like to see a message
in it on the solaris group.
I have been chastised for cross posting and will be more careful. I
thought 4 groups was OK, but...
Anyway, here it is. Wonder if it covers Qt as well. Ironic MS is suing
over what amounts to look and feel...
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Henrik Keiler
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> James Hutchins wrote:
>
> > Remember how Motif became the darling and crowded out all of its
> > competitors within very few years? Is that what will happen with GTK+ and
> > Qt?
>
> GTK+ is history.
> Microsoft is planning a massive lawsuit against GTK+ authors and Gnome
> fondation starting in Q1/2001. They claim that GTK+ violates both US
> patents (we don't care about software patents here in europe, but...)
> and their intellectual property (even europe cares about that !!).
> Shipping a product based on GTK+ will be dangerous - if this lawsuit
> will be won by microsoft (and GTK+ _is_ violating their patents - that
> is the primary problem: M$ has patents covering what GTK+ does... ;-(( )
> all vendors who are using GTK+ and GTK+-based products (Gnome) will have
> to pay license fees.
> I won't recomment using GTK+ until these "issues" have been solved -
> otherwise you may have to pay many $$ to M$... ;-(
>
> --
>
> Henrik Keiler - Starfury pilot :-)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:51:12 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 14 Nov 2000 19:53:48 GMT...
...and Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For example, ORBit still only supports C, so all
> languages besides C are left out of the CORBA framework.
There are extensions for ORBit to support at least Python and C++ if I
recall correctly.
mawa
--
Stand up for your rights.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 23:49:58 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 14 Nov 2000 09:16:56 -0600...
...and [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I hope that the two projects merge in the future in a language less
> > sucky than either C or C++.
>
> Agreed. They should write it in Java. That way, KDE and GNOME could run on
> an array of embedded applications (such as the Palm pilot).
They already do without Java (essentially, all you need is a platform
that runs Linux, and most embedded systems do).
mawa
--
Stand up for your rights.
------------------------------
From: "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:54:54 -0800
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Bj5Q5.20474$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:EG2Q5.126332$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > >
> > > The one thing that sells me on Linux, as a programmer, is the source
> code.
> > > Proper string handling routines nullify buffer overflow exploits.
> >
> > And yet, when you check the security pages for Linux, it seems almost
> every
> > exploit is a buffer overlow one.
>
> And likewise on windows. One of the zillions:
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS00-087.asp
There were two buffer overflow security bulletins in 2000 for all products
in Windows.
>
> >
> > Because of the number of exploits I must assume that security is way
down
> > the list of projects that Linux programmers consider interesting.
>
> Odd you think that when windows almost always tops the
> bugtraq stats for exploits.
I doubt it. Linux is full of root exploits.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS stability
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:51:16 -0500
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Every machine I have worked on for the last several years has been
> > keep powered up continously for years, unless there was a failure
> > on the motherboard.
>
> Wow. Every machine you've ever worked on has been continuously powered up
> for years. That's amazing. You not only completely beat out every
> statistic known to man, but have never applied a kernel patch either. Ever.
I've done several dozen. Machine NEVER powered down.
What happens during a kernel patch?
1) patch code is installed (power is ON)
2) kernal is recompiled (power is ON)
3) old kernel is renamed (power is ON)
4) new kernal is installed (power is ON)
5) Unix begins shutdown (power is ON)
6) Unix ends shutdown, issues soft-reset to CPU (power is ON)
7) CPU resets...(power is ON)
8) CPU begins executing mainboard firmware (power is ON)
9) firmware loads the boot sector from disk (power is ON)
10) Unix bootstraps itself up (power is ON)
11) Unix finishes booting (power is ON)
12) Unix is available for users (power is ON)
So...when does the power shut off, exactly?
>
> Now we know what kind of an engineer you are.
> One that has never done his job.
Correction...one who KNOWS HOW TO DO HIS JOB.
Power cycling is hard on the hardware.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Jerry L Kreps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: True GTK+ will eliminate Qt in next few years?
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:55:21 -0600
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
James Hutchins wrote:
> Remember how Motif became the darling and crowded out all of its
> competitors within very few years? Is that what will happen with GTK+ and
> Qt?
>
> I was about to switch from Motif to Qt, but have gotten advice from
> several sources suggesting Qt failed to get adopted as the darling of the
> unix community and GTK+ has succeeded, so Qt will not be around, or will
> be a hanger-on.
>
> Seems like when a tool doesn't "win", all kinds of things happen, like
> ancilliary tools don't get developed for it, it isn't kept up with new
> developments, good books about it (and about using various tools in
> conjunction with it, like databases, graphics libraries, etc.) don't
> appear, etc.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Jim
There is a fine discussion taking place under this thread!
Personally, I have switched to C++ and Qt. The Qt toolkit is well thought
out and well engineered. Being based on an object language it is object
oriented too. I see C++ as the natural successor to C in the evolution of
that language paradigm. The KDevelop application makes using C++ and
Qt a snap, if you understand the object oriented event-driven paradigm.
It will be/is a lot easier and quicker bring applications to fuition with
Qt. At SorceForge there are 323 new KDE apps in development now, and
about 800 app alread out there.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: I WANT WIN2k drivers!
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 00:01:52 GMT
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:51:04 +1000, steve erntner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>how hard is it to get drivers for aztech sound cards???
>all i want are win2k drivers for em...but do they exist? nooooooooooooooooo
>im about to break down and cry
Try sticking to W2K newsgroups, moron.
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 00:02:55 GMT
"." wrote:
>
> > Not to mention the OS's that don't report uptimes at all,
> > such as OS/2, OS/390, SunOS4, NetWare...
>
> Dunno about the others, but Netware most certainly reports its uptime, in
> one of the most commonly used netware tools too (MONITOR).
If that's what he meant then he is wrong on all 4 counts. I think he meant
that these OS's weren't listed at the URL cited by Bob in the first article in
this thread.
------------------------------
From: "crystalnight heavy industries" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Spontaneously Crashing Sun Server Coverup
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:07:11 -0700
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:l4KO5.2523$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:g8cfu8.dee.ln@gd2zzx...
> > In article <r_zO5.124941$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > "Bruce Schuck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:iLyO5.15187$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >>
> > >> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >> Yes, a large Sun box crashing is one of those 'man bites dog' stories
> > >> that makes the news.
> > Your ignorance is becoming tiresome. Bad design of what? The h/w? Sun's
> > enterprise systems are rock solid.
>
> Not according to the thousands of Sun hardware customers who suffered
> spontaneous reboots of their systems due to a design flaw and were forced
> to keep quiet under an NDA they had to sign with Sun which prevented them
> from talking about it. What else does Sun have to hide that they're
preventing
> everyone else from knowing?
>
> > Solaris? It may not have all the frills that come with Linux (although
> > they are seeing the light) but Solaris is as solid and secure (if you
> > know what you are doing) as you can get.
>
> As you can get? Not quite.
>
> It's slow, clunky, behind on the times and technology, only runs on Sun's
> flawed hardware. Well, there is an x86 port, but it's a joke.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!
...man that's funny! let me get a hanky, i think i busted a gut.
you just go ahead and keep telling yourself all this chad.
anyone--ANYone--who has worked in heterogenous shops (i.e. unix and NT
together) knows goddamn good and well which technologies are "behind the
times".
i worked with an NT snob at my last gig... that is the saddest sight in the
world. used to be, they were tolerable because they "knew" they were right,
so they didn't bother to get all huffy. since linux and unix in general
started gaining more market share, they are becoming bitter, and a pain in
the ass to be around.
the unix guys at your job must *love* you, chad.
rdh
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:08:06 -0500
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Journaling FS Question (Was: Re: Of course, there is a down side...)
Bruce Schuck wrote:
>
>
> From: http://www.executive.com/whats-new/whitepaper.asp#_Toc463769977
> NTFS is a recoverable file system. This means that operations in NTFS are
> transactions, as in a database. Either the entire operation completes or the
> operating system has the capability to roll back the unfinished portion,
> safeguarding the integrity of the existing data. NTFS also stores redundant
> copies of critical file system structures in the unlikely event that
> physical damage makes one copy of them inaccessible.
>
> Or: http://www.digit-life.com/articles/ntfs/index.html
>
> Journalising
>
> NTFS is a fail-safe system which can correct itself at practically any real
> failure. Any modern file system is based on such concept as transaction -
> the action made wholly and correct or not made at all. NTFS just doesn't
> have intermediate (erratic or incorrect) conditions - the data variation
> quantum cannot be divided on before failure or after it bringing breakups
> and muddle - it is either accomplished or cancelled.
You have just described journaling of metadata. The very fact that
"Either the entire operation completes or the
operating system has the capability to roll back the unfinished portion"
means that data can be lost during a rollback. The rollback guarantees that
the file system is consistent. It either contains a valid copy of the old
data or a valid copy of the new data. Loose power before the new data is
committed and you end of with the old data.
Gary
------------------------------
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