Linux-Advocacy Digest #239, Volume #33 Sun, 1 Apr 01 00:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB? ("JS PL")
Re: Multitasking ("JS PL")
Re: Communism (Scott Erb)
Re: Communism (Douglas Berry)
Re: Communism (Douglas Berry)
Re: Linux dying (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Communism (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: You have to check out The Register ASAP ("tony roth")
Re: Formatting a floppy ("Stephen S. Edwards II")
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) ("Roger Perkins")
Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism) ("Roger Perkins")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "JS PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB?
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 22:27:22 -0500
"Roger" <roger@.> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Off topic for this thread, but Max has claimed at least two
> conversations with you re: a problem with IE which was solved by
> replacement of a video card. Since he originally claimed it was me,
> in spite of being corrected before (and since it is, after al, Max)
> I'm inclined to take his recent version of the fantasy with a huge
> grain of salt.
>
> Do you recall the threads he's babbling about?
I remember having a problem with a bad video driver causing screen freezes a
couple years ago, right about the time Win98SE came out. It was a problem
with a Viper V550 and WinSE which reared its ugly head most often while IE
was open. Changing the card out fixed the problem.
------------------------------
From: "JS PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Multitasking
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 22:41:27 -0500
"Barry Manilow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Said Paul 'Z' Ewande® in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 30 Mar 2001
>
> > >> >What I do next is point out that you *still* haven't put forward the
> > >evidence that NT multitasking is crap. you lose.
> >
> > That doesn't make NT's multitasking any more acceptable, though, does
> > it?
> >
> It is not that good either. I know people who have used most OS's out
> there.
>
> The best multitaskers:
>
> 1. Amiga
> 2. OS/2 Warp
> 3. QNX (close third)
> 4. BeOS (very good)
> 5. Various Unixen, including Linux
> 6. NT/Win2K
> 7. Win XX
> 8. Mac OS
>
> This lineup is pretty indisputable. The only controversy seems to be
> over the order of 2, 3, and 4. I know a lot of folks who have tried
> them all and the results are pretty similar.
Speaking of multi-tasking, I read this thread yesterday and conducted a
little test on my Win2K system.
Ran a search for *.exe - then when the files found were up to 605 I stopped
the search. Selected them all and pressed enter. Ended up with 186 open
programs without a hitch. I'm pretty sure the rest opened and closed
themselves as command line programs. The system is a dual 500 w/224mb ram.
Your incredible Win2K multitasking ability may vary.
------------------------------
From: Scott Erb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 22:06:46 -0500
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:> A distinction without a difference.
>
> Fascists kill the poor first.
> Communists kill the rich first.
>
> In fascism, industry "owns" the government.
> In Communism, the government "owns" industry.
-snip-
Too simplistic. Here is a bit about fascism:
Fascism:
The basis of fascism is irrationality -- it starts based on conservative
principles taken to an extreme but becomes ANTI-CONSERVATIVE in that it
tears down the system and creates a new one based on emotionalism and
irrationality. It is also anti-communist and anti-liberal.
Conservatives: society is important, traditions of nation and culture.
Fascists: STATE is important, embodies society.
NATIONALISM: as protection of traditions of nation
WAR/STRENGTH: Social Darwinism applied
At base, fascism is a social darwinist form of ultra-conservative
thought. BUT, calling it conservative is a disservice to real
conservatives, just as Stalinism is not a form of Social Democracy. The
extremes are always ugly it seams!!!
Anti-liberal:
Liberals: humans have the capacity for rational thought, to improve
society.
Fascists: improve is a relative term. It cannot be defined rationally.
In fact, rational thought imprisions humans. It does not allow their
spirit to flow, and does not allow them to be able to engage in heroic
actions. Thus, fascists argue that masses should not be expected to act
rationally and participate in politics in such a manner.
Rather: people get pleasure and joy out of fulfilling their duty to the
state. People should be given emotional releases, ways to feel
self-worth and self-esteem as members of a functioning, well ordered
society. Government: elite run, designed to satisfy the emotional needs
of the populace.
Needs: strength, competition, glory. If a human has these things, they
are more fully alive and fully human. Thus: mass participation
important for emotional support and nationalism, not in terms of
interest intermediation. This is anti-intellectual, anti-rational. A
strong reaction to the rational and ordered world of modernism. Appeal
to the animal instincts in each person. Again: Irrationalism is at the
heart of fascism. (Note that in conservatist thought the fact humans
were animals meant an elite had to civilize them through law and order;
for fascism, the elite gives them releases and uses that power in ways
to benefit the state).
In reality: because it is non-rational, fascism can have many different
forms. Rather like a fantasy. Three forms in history that were overtly
fascist, though other governments had fascist qualities (often called
dictatorships, etc.)
Fascism in essence peaked in the interwar period partially because of
how crazy life had become. It was sort of a pinnacle of modernism, with
the lack of certainty and truth taken to an extreme where truth equals
power. Capitalism was failing, seemed chaotic, doesn't work. Communism
was scary, eastern, opposed to traditions. It was a way to save the old
traditions, the old focus on duty and state, and yet at the same time
garner the power of nationalism.
It shows the dark side of modernism. If the "bright side" is science,
logic, and rationality, the dark side is irrationalism. Yet that
irrationalism is a part of life; hence the allure of fascism.
Also: picks on those who are down and out, losers in other words. Told
they are part of a greater whole, something that gives them meaning.
They are accepted and treated as special. This creates a bond.
Neo-nazis in America its the same thing -- they prey on unemployed young
men, take them in, do target practice, hikes, build comradery, and only
slowly bring in the ideology. Its a bond. Appealling to people who are
not able to deal with the challenge of individualism, and that strikes
more often in societies with poverty, chaos, and uncertainty.
Italy: Mussolini: built on anti-communism and anti-socialism to get
support from wealthy, middle class. Took power in 1922. Blackshirts,
beat up communists, marched on Rome, basically took over from a weak
democracy.
But Mussolini was more interested in power, not ideology. He had been a
Communist revolutionary before, he drifted and developed fascism as an
alternative form of concentration of power that the middle class could
accept.
Claim: democracy weak and falling apart. Some truth to that, Italians
uncertain about democracy, economic turmoil. Fascism promised order and
stability. Mussolini gave it to them...at a cost of freedom. Main form
of interest intermediation: authoritarian corporatism, like we discussed
last time.
He borrowed from Napoleon: symbols of nation, glory, trying to make
people feel good about themselves. Also established Fascist control
which was effective and popular.
Spain: Franco, called a Fascist, but in some ways he was more an
arch-conservative. Believed in the church, traditional spanish values,
fighting against modernism. Lasted until 1975, did not support Nazis in
WWII.
Germany: Nazism
Most famous form of fascism, and shows what can happen.
Fascism is inherently relativist, the state defines good and evil.
Relativism isn't per se bad (not every relativist is a fascist!), but in
this case it is a relativism with an absolutist twist -- since no one
can know the truth, the state can determine the truth!
Or: power is truth. If you have power you can determine the truth.
That power = truth aspect of fascism is precisely what makes it so
uniquely dangerous.
Nietzsche said God is dead because he said the modernist belief in
reason kills religion -- if all can be understood scientifically and
through rationality rather than spiritualism, then there is no true
morality, it is just meaningless. That ultimately means there is no
grounding for our beliefs. Nietzsche doubted the liberal claim about
rationality leading to truth, some truths are beyond rational thought,
or it may be that life has only the meaning we give it. That could be
liberating, but for Nietzsche it was a bit frightening: if life has the
meaning we give it, we could give it ANY meaning, from virtuous and
heroic to evil and murderous. In a sense, the conservative belief in
the importance of religion and tradition implied an implicit recognition
of this: get rid of God and claims of divine authority, and humans are
free -- and freedom means potential chaos and anarchy. Liberals hoped
reason could prevail, and maybe ultimately it will. But fascism shows
how irrationality can also prevail, at least for a short time.
Fascists: Nothing really matters but power. Whomever has power can
determine truth. Morality defined by those in power, or in the case of
fascists, usually the state.
For the Nazis it was Social Darwinism in the extreme:
Racist: Race is essentially not a "real" or "natural" concept. We have
different hair color, traits, eye colors and you could divide people up
many ways. But for the Nazis there were not only natural races, but to
them this was the essential battleground for social darwinist conflict.
The Aryan or German "race" (which was never clearly defined) was posited
as a type of master race. Socialists, Jews, others were seen as
fighting against the true Aryan spirit by working wtih inferior peoples,
or weakening Germany. The true German was the Wagnerian hero, strong,
powerful, makes his own rules, determines his own destiny. The rallying
cry: Free the German spirit! This especially appealed to those
unemployed, feeling impotent, and wanting some kind of meaning in their
life.
Even today, neo-nazi groups try to appeal to young males who are poor,
unemployed or alienated. They start not by spouting racist ideology,
but instead making them feel welcome, part of a group, building
solidarity with other young men. They play war games, build muscles,
learn that they are a special group, stronger, smarter, and better
trained than the average person. They are the rightful rulers, and it
is only the enemy -- the Jew, the Banker, the Socialist, the Government,
whomever -- that keeps them from their rightful role. But the ideology
is only sprung on them slowly. The key is to make them feel solidarity
with the group and thus be willing to learn the ideology. Fascism in
essence is a way for people to boost their self-esteem, and often
appeals the the dregs of society.
Scape-goating: You tell the out of work youth that the only reason he's
down and out is because the Jewish bankers or Socialist intellectuals
are not letting him use his strength to do what he was meant to do: make
Deutschland the most powerful country in the world. You tell poor youth
that they are really the true masters, and to achieve their right place,
they should throw off the current leaders and make it possible to build
a new Germany.
Still, the Nazis also worked traditional conservatives: Kinder, Kirche,
Küche. It was a very masculine order; women's place was as mothers to
keep society growing and functioning properly. WAR was seen as
essential. Germans need Lebensraum, should not grow soft. Whoever does
not conquer will be conquered.
RESULT: Fascism worked well at first, like Italy. People ignored most
irrational parts, and spending and arms build up gave economy a boost.
Hitler also had foreign policy success.
All of this was fake, it could not last -- government was borrowing, and
not investing in real goods. The nazis needed conquest to continue, and
this led to war (something Hitler was planning all along -- we'll see
that when we discuss German politics). The ideology of racism led to
the holocaust. Result: Germany totally defeated, and the horror of
fascism and where it can lead was made clear. Not all fascists want a
holocaust or a world war, but the ideology can easily lead that way.
------------------------------
From: Douglas Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 20:00:29 -0800
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:57:19 -0800, a wanderer, known to us only as
Barry Manilow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> warmed at our fire and told
this tale:
>> Remember them? Hell, I killed a bunch of 'em! I hope that money
>> wasn't paying for military training, because if that was the case, you
>> got ripped off.
>>
>Ahhhh, too bad they didn't get u too, my friend. :(
I was just too damn good. All that training paid off.
And you aren't my friend, you are a waste of ammo.
--
Douglas E. Berry [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
------------------------------
From: Douglas Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 20:01:06 -0800
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:01:59 -0800, a wanderer, known to us only as
GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> warmed at our fire and told this
tale:
>While in Basic training in the Army, the drill instructor said if you
>want to be an AirBorne Ranger that's up to you... then said "But two
>things fall out of the sky: Bird shit and Fools!"
The second is a pretty good description of most Rangers.. :)
--
Douglas E. Berry [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dying
Date: 1 Apr 2001 04:03:58 GMT
On Sun, 1 Apr 2001 01:39:22 +0200, Roy Culley wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) writes:
>> On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:45:16 +0200, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>>
>> No, SunOS was based on BSD, new versions of Solaris are SysV based.
>
>SunOS 4.x and earlier were based on BSD. SunOS 5.x is based on SysV.
>Solaris is a complete environment OS plus GUI and applications. Solaris
>1.x had SunOS 4.x underneath. Solaris 2.x and later have SunOS 5.x
>underneath.
By SunOS, I don't mean "SunOS 5", and by Solaris, I don't mean "Sun OS 4".
Sun did this funny thing with the names to confuse people, but it is not
uncommon to use "SunOS" to specifically mean the older version (and Solaris
to mean the new SysV version).
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: 1 Apr 2001 04:10:21 GMT
On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 20:04:45 -0500, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:03:12 -0500, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>> >Mathew wrote:
>> >>
>>
>> >> What about Capitalist dictatorships like the Philippines under Marcos?
>> >
>> >It's a perfect exampe of what I was saying: Economic freedom leads to
>> >political freedom...because it destabilizes the dictatorship.
>>
>> Singapore ?
>>
>
>Singapore was quite the benign dictatorship. The economic freedom
>(to pack up and leave if things got bad) meant that those in charge
>were kept in line by the simple specter of mass emmigration of
>the most talented people to...somewhere beyond their control.
My point is that they have some economic freedom. I agree with you on
this point btw -- lack of economic freedom would result in mass-migration. See
China as a shining example of this ... yeah, I know China is poor, but
there are other poor countries where that the ethnic Chinese aren't
mass-migrating away from ...
But my point was that Singapore really doesn't offer any political freedom.
And their economic freedom has not produced political freedom.
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: "tony roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You have to check out The Register ASAP
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 20:12:31 -0800
Netcraft reports :)
The site www.theregister.co.uk is running Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) on Linux.
"Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/
>
> :-)
>
> Adam
------------------------------
From: "Stephen S. Edwards II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Formatting a floppy
Date: 1 Apr 2001 04:28:04 GMT
Barry Manilow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: "Stephen S. Edwards II" wrote:
: >
: > Barry Manilow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: >
: > : Start doing all of these things on Windows anything, adding one at a
: > : time. Any bets on when it starts sputtering, slowing down to the
: > : point of uselessness, or totally locking up and crashing?
: >
: > In such a case, any operating system would be bogged down
: > immensely, simply because the nature of those tasks requires
: > much CPU power and RAM.
: Amiga and OS/2 can do this. Can Win-anythng? Did not think so...
I know for a fact that this is nonsense. I used
to operate an Amiga 2000 Video Toaster unit for
video post-production, and I was never able to
put such incredible strain on the system without
causing major performance troubles.
Running ADPro, Imagine, and DOpus alone was strain
enough, even with 36MB of RAM on board, let alone
firing up the toaster switcher and Lightwave 2.0.
: > : that scan is gonna look good? U think that MP3 will be smooth. U
: >
: > Uh, speed has no effect on "how it looks" in scanning.
: > What affects the appearance of a scan is the density
: > of the scan, such as 150dpi vs. 600dpi vs. 2400dpi.
: Yes but on Win-anything you cannot scan and do anything else.
That's not the point. You claimed that the rate
at which a scanner picks up color affects the
quality of the final image, which is nonsense.
: > And an mp3 file's quality is going to be dictated by
: > the parameters used in compressing it, not by the
: > speed in which it's compressed you moron.
: Not at all. Win-anything typically skips when playing MP3's if you
: are doing much of anything else.
*sigh*
You need to keep to the topics that you initiate.
You claimed, again, that speed directly affects
the quality of data which is either collected
or modified, which is complete and utter bullshit.
: > : think u can type full-speed in the WP. What do you think those videos
: > : will look and sound like? U think u won't burn a coaster in your CD
: >
: > Choppy, as they would under any OS under such strain.
: They look good on OS/2, Amiga, and maybe BeOS. Do they look good on
: Win-anything? Course not.
"Maybe BeOS"? First you say it does, and
now you suggest that you're simply guessing
that it would, based on your own mindless
delusions?
*sigh* This guy is too much.
As I said, no OS would be able to do what you are
suggesting on PC hardware. Ever. You're simply
talking out of the wrong oriface.
: > : drive? U think u will be able to play any of those games at all? You
: > : are wrong.
: >
: > : Or try this. Open up more than 260 programs all at once and run them
: > : and work on them at the same time on an ordinary PC system. U think
: > : Win-anything can do this?
: >
: > : Yet there are OS's that do this all the time, and easily. And u can
: > : buy and run them right now.
: >
: > Really? Please enlighten us, what OS would this be exactly?
: OS/2 can run 250-300 programs at once without a lot of problems. I
: know a guy who did it. And he did not have a lot of memory or a very
: fast chip. Can Win-anything do that? No. And I know the Amiga can
"I heard" usually means "it's bullshit".
I can tell about all of the things we've all
"heard" about GNU/Linux, only to find out that
they were either untested, untrue, or merely
theorectical suppositions.
: run 110 programs at once on 50 MHZ and 16 MB, without even slowing
: much. Can Win-anything do that? No.
Again, prove it. Show me a resepctable
source that has actually done this, and
I mean something other than your own
anecdotal supposition.
: >
: > BeOS?
: BeOS can multitask better than Win-anything.
Really? How exactly? Please explain exactly
how well tasks are threaded in BeOS, and why
they are better than threads under WindowsNT.
Or are you simply saying this, because it
makes you feel smarter?
Note to BeOS users: I'm not knocking BeOS,
just trying to see if talkers are walkers.
: > You are full of shit, plain and simple. There is no way that
: > any operating system could handle all of those situations
: > simultaneously, unless it was running as efficiently as
: > theoretically possible on at least a 4-way SMP box, with
: > at least an 80% performance gain on each chip (and if
: > you had a clue, you'd know that most SMP systems only
: > add 30% to 40% of a performance gain per chip on a
: > typical klunking PC.
: >
: > Not Linux. Not BSD/OS. Not WindowsNT. Nothing can be
: > expected to perform flawlessly under those conditions
: > on PC hardware.
: OS/2 and Amiga OS routinely run under similar loads. Does OS/2 start
: swapping like mad? Of course it does! But it stays up!
Uh huh. Unless you can provide proof of this, either
through a specific scenario that someone else can test,
or through a white paper explaining why OS/2 could
handle such a load, your argument is nothing but a
very large steaming pile of caca. And there is little
else that most OS/2 advocates offer these days.
: > Please. Give us a small break from this nonsense.
: >
: > It's obvious that you have absolutely no idea
: > what you're talking about, so please spare this
: > group from your idiotic notions, and come back
: > when you have a clue.
: >
: > Twit.
: Just speaking from experience, friend. You Win-users are so isolated
: you have no idea what some other OS's can do. Windows is not the only
: OS out there. You guys need to get out once in a while.
*sigh* You proceed from a false assumption,
as you seem to do in most of your arguments.
Who said I'm a "Win-user"?
I said I like Windows2000. That doesn't mean that
I use it exclusively.
Currently, I use NetBSD, BeOS, IRIX,
and occaionally Windows2000.
In the past, I've used Amigas extensively, as well as
Macintoshes, and PCs running GNU/Linux, SCO UNIX,
and BSD/OS. Tell me, how often have you worked with
SGI Skywriters? How about Sun SPARCStations? How
about 68k NeXT systems? Your claims sound suspiciously
like those of a person who has no experience outside
of consumer-grade hardware.
If there is anyone here who has nearly
zero experience outside the world of
iX86-based PCs, it's you.
------------------------------
From: "Roger Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:40:22 -0800
Don't confuse the little dweeb. He wants to set up a dictatorship in this
country along with Hdlskdjfloser. He sees "anti-government" as
"anti-whateverI want".
Roger
AIRBORNE!
"Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9a5sks$6st$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Paul Holloway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> : If you don't have a viable solution, then you're part of the problem.
>
>
> There is a great solution. It's called the Constitution. It is the
> highest law of the land, and anything contrary to it is null and void.
>
> I'm sworn to defend it, and that is why I oppose those who have
> knowingly and actively violated it for their own personal gain.
>
> Most of those who get labeled as "anti-government" actually favor
> lawful, Constitutional government. What they oppose is the current
> oligarchy masquerading as a democracy, most of whose actions are
> obviously and blatantly unlawful. And on that point at least I'm with
> them 100%.
>
>
> Joe
------------------------------
From: "Roger Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: OT: Treason (was Re: Communism)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:41:32 -0800
Absolutely. And our laws deal harshly with those who step outside the law.
It's how the system works but not how aaron works. Which is my point.
Roger
AIRBORNE!
"Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9a5too$7h9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Roger Perkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : That's because these anti-government guys think anyone who doesn't do
what
> : they want them to do are traitors. My way or the highway attitude.
What
> : they are advocating is dictatorship, not an American government.
>
>
> Thankfully for a lot of the wannabe-traitors, the definition of
> treason is spelled out, very narrowly and specifically, in the
> Constitution itself. Many of the actions that would constitute
> treason under most other legal systems are not treason under ours.
>
> It still is a very unwise idea to conspire to violate the rights of
> other people. It may not be treason, but it is still illegal, wrong,
> and potentially very dangerous, especially if either the lawful
> authorities, or anyone who feels threatened by your actions, decides
> to take you seriously.
>
>
> Joe
------------------------------
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