Linux-Advocacy Digest #438, Volume #30 Sun, 26 Nov 00 11:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Response to: MS Office sucks? So why is anyone using it? (Edward Rosten)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... (Gary Hallock)
Re: KDE2 (Edward Rosten)
Re: Linux growth rate explosion! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? (Edward Rosten)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Giuliano Colla)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Response to: MS Office sucks? So why is anyone using it?
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:57:07 +0000
> I think that it won't happen without Microsoft effectively giving
> the product to the universities, since what's available for
> free is so good (don't forget that such as solaris are available
> for free, as well as Linux and the BSDs and Minix). Apart from
> a few exceptions (such as Oxford or Cambridge), most Universities
There are some colleges which seem to be falling under their weight in
gold. Not all colleges and departments are quite so lucky.
> are not exactly falling under the weight of their gold. A free
> OS solution _must_ be worth considering for a non-profit body.
There's plenty of free software flaoting around in Oxford. The
engineering dept. has mainly PSs running Solaris (+ a few suns)
avaliable for the student use. The physics department (IIRC) has ust got
a load of new Linux machines. The big new mail server is a small Linux
cluster, too. That said, there are site licenses for various bits of
commercial software.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold | Edward
Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? | u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies | @
| eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 09:58:04 -0500
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> Aren't there email programs for linux? Why do you've to use windows to check
> your mail.
Because we have Lotus Domino running on OS/390 for our mail servers and it has
been mandated that we use Lotus Notes. I used to have to remote log into
Windows NT to use the Notes client to get my mail. For a while, NT was so
unreliable that much mail was lost or delayed. I would routinely receive
meeting notices a day or two after the meeting. I used to tell those that
really needed to contact me to send notes to my VM/CMS account.
Gary
------------------------------
From: Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:02:57 +0000
> Some of the technical merits that KDE provides:
>
> Network transparency to the programmer and user.
It's X (not KDE) that provides the network transparency (for graphics at
any rate)
> IOSlaves allow flexable IO from any kind of devices( You can now rip cd's by
UNIX provides this with it's `everything is a file' idea.
-Ed
> dragging files straight from konqueror)
> A great Web Browser that supports many standards and is getting better every
> day without accumulating bloat.
> A great component model
> A promising office suite
> Truly fast theming because themes can be programmed instead of just pixmaps
> A truly wonderfull and well thought out API
> the list goes on and on
>
> Matt Newell
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold | Edward
Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? | u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies | @
| eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux growth rate explosion!
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:29:44 +0200
"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <8vqvqq$5f036$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> In article <qFZT5.10131$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >> Chad Mulligan wrote:
> >
> >
> >> >Because they are still looking for a way in.....
> >>
> >> Yeah, on windows trojan ports - as I said above. I don't run
> >> windows so the trojans they're looking for are not on my
> >> machine.
> >
> >The most wide spread OS is?
> >Most trojans are written to what OS?
> >
> >Combine those two answer and you'll realize why you've a lot of port
scans
> >to windows trojans
> >Not to mention that this is about the most inefficent way to do this.
>
> Doh. How do you get a trojan onto a unix machine?
Same mecanism you get one into a win machine.
Lure the user to open it.
> >> >> I see thousands of scans for windows machines. I don't see any for
> >> >> unix machines.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Because they've already found a way in.
> >>
> >> No, not on my machine. I've never been cracked.
> >
> >That you know of :)
>
> mmmm :)
> >
> >
> >> The massive amount of port-scanning shows how many thousands of
> >> people are trying, continuously, to crack windows machines using
> >> one of the very very many trojans out there. These are the ones
> >> which are eg., regularly posted to newsgroups, knowing that many
> >> windows users run Outlook express, and will 'open' the attachment,
> >> infect their machine because 'open' also happens to mean 'run'
> >> in the windows world.
> >
> >You can't tell the difference between a trojan and an exploit?
> >If there was a wide spread trojan for unix machines, wouldn't people scan
> >for it?
>
> How do you get a trojan onto a unix machine? You need a delivery
> mechanism. Microsoft provides one. You need root access, Microsoft
> gives that to everyone.
What delivery mecanism MS provides?
No, win9x gives that to everyone. And it's shit.
Use NT or better yet, 2000 for a good system.
> >If unix was a wide spread OS, used by average computer illeterate
persons,
> >you would see the same for unix.
>
> No, for the reasons I give above.
Yes, for the reasons I give above.
> >> Then, a few mins later, the scanner detects the running trojan,
> >> and, guess what, your windows machine just got owned.
> >
> >That is true for all OS.
> >
>
> No, for the reasons I give above.
Yes, for the reasons I give above.
------------------------------
From: Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:11:55 +0000
mark wrote:
>
> In article <8K5U5.26660$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Pete Goodwin wrote:
> >
> >One bug? I've logged a few more than one. I've seen konqueror crash,
> >kcontrol crash and the whole machine lockup tight.
>
> Now, I wonder that lockup tight means? We know that a KDE app
> _might_ cause a KDE problem. We know that KDE _might_ cause an
> X problem. We know that an X problem will not stop the machine.
An X problem /can/ stop the machine. I've never seen it happen. I've
only lost my X server a few times (once?) in the last 2 years. I've
never crashed the computer. Strangely, the only people who suffer from
frequent X lockups and frequent computer lockups as a result are the Win
trolls. Odd.
-Ed
> Mark
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold | Edward
Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? | u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies | @
| eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:29:26 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Doh - the market barriers are to high thus there is no
> > viable competition.
> >
> > Please try to understand this - it's fundamental to
> > how monopolies operate.
> >
> > The barriers are not technical so a different technical solution
> > does not enable to monopoly to be broken.
> >
> > These concepts are really not that difficult.
>
> What prevent the iceland goverment from localizing linux, for example?
> What bussiness barriers?
Maybe you forget that the only viable alternative to Windows exists only
because it escapes the normal market rules, being a free product, and
therefore it is, for a certain amount, protected against monopoly.
If you develop for free, you don't expect any return from an investment,
so you may do what no industrial investor in his mind would ever do.
But this makes the situation quite unusual.
Can you tell to whom iceland government could have addressed to get a
localized Linux version? Which cannot be sold, because of GPL license?
Only way is Reykjavik University, provided it has the necessary
resources available, which, given Iceland size, is rather unlikely.
If you take a different case, Chinese government has selected Linux, but
China is large enough to allow for a government subsidized development
team which may undertake and maintain localized versions. Moreover it's
possible that China doesn't give a damn about GPL.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:34:32 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> >
> > Your experience appears to be unique.
> >
> > I recommend Debian GNU/Linux to anyone. One of the main
> > advantages of Linux over other OSs is that it has support for
> > a huge range of filesystems.
> >
> > One of those filesystems is FAT, so if you believe the previous
> > poster (against all known evidence) that FAT is better than
> > ext2 - well, you can use it in Linux.
>
> IIRC, UMSDOS linux are unanimously known to suck.
What do you mean by this statement?
--
Now that's a whore of a different choler!
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 01:40:25 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 24 Nov 2000
[...]
>To the average user, the GUI *IS* a core process,
Who the hell cares? The "average users" opinion on what is or is not a
core process is rather entirely meaningless, in terms of what is a core
process.
>and usually the only thing
>they care about on a desktop machine.
You mean its usually the only thing they see on a desktop machine,
because its what makes it a "desktop"?
>Who cares if the telnet server is
>still running if you just lost all your work in the 5 open X applications
>you had going?
Who cares if it isn't the OS that crashed, but just an application (or
'driver'), when you have to lose all your work and reboot the system,
anyway?
>And corrupted file systems don't usually happen with NTFS since it's
>journaled. And I have never experienced a corrupted registry except when
>the hard disk developed bad spots.
No, you've never known that it was a corrupted registry that caused your
system to fail. But since you're not even willing to admit your system
has ever failed, and expect us to believe that somewhere, somehow,
monopoly crapware is the height of robust and reliable technology, just
because we can't prove your system has ever failed, I guess that's
rather impossible to discuss.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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