Linux-Advocacy Digest #441, Volume #30 Sun, 26 Nov 00 12:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Curtis)
Re: The Sixth Sense (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Mandrake 7.2 Quick Review ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: C++ is very alive! (Russ Lyttle)
Re: C++ is very alive! (Bob Hauck)
Re: C++ is very alive! (Charlie Ebert)
Re: KDE2 ("James")
Re: C++ is very alive! (Salvador Peralta)
Re: C++ is very alive! (Salvador Peralta)
Re: KDE2 ("James")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Curtis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 10:50:01 -0500
mark wrote...
> >No, the user is an idiot.
> >An installer is an "it", no a "he"
>
> Er, the user is an idiot because microsoft's CD was broken?
>
> Wow I love windows people.
You're doing the same crap with Ayende I see.
Look; let me explain for you. The guy attempts to install Windows. During
the Windows installation, he gets an error message about a file being
corrupt. It so happens that the file is critical for Windows Dial-up
functionality. The installation works just fine except for when he
attempts a dial-up connection.
Instead of running a search on the file on the Windows CD to see if there
are more than one instances of it on the CD, he re-installs. When the 5
minute solution was suggested to him, he ignored it and attempted another
30-40 minute install. This is where the stupidity came in. Ayende said
this clearly. Go back and read his original posts.
--
| ,__o
!ACM _-\_<, A thing is not necessarily true because
<(*)>--(*)/'(*)______________________ a man dies for it.
mailto:martian*at*cwjamaica*dot*com
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 15:57:44 GMT
Curtis wrote:
>
> With a Linux system, outfitted with KDE and running similarly capable X-
> apps and services, you're looking at pretty hefty resource requirements
> as well.
Not sure. I use Gnome and Sawfish (since Enlightenment has bloated
into a gaudy monstrosity lately), and generally never have to wait for
disk thrashing. And the command line is incredibly more responsive.
When you select a new window in linux while a task is churning away
in the background, it comes right up, unlike in NT or 2000. I boot
to Linux on my main machine, most often, because it's just more
pleasant to use. Your mileage will vary.
On my 72 Mb server (what the heck, I found an 8MB chip laying around),
with a 166MHz Cyrix chip, and having Linux running all sorts
of crap, including Samba, still works well when
I logon (using X) as myself, to do stuff. Certainly
an order of magnitude faster than Win98! Right next to this box
I have an old 32 MB laptop with a P-166, running NT 4.0 with SP4.
Slow as dog meat, though, surprisingly, not as bad as my daughter's
Win98 machine on 64 Mb P-166.
Now if I could only get some Sun hardware in here, for more comparisons.
However, my wife thinks that is taking at-home learning just a little
toooooooo far.
Chris
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 11:08:32 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said mark in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 26 Nov 2000 12:15:06 +0000;
[...]
>>One I'd win98 up & running, it was a matter of minutes to get the ext2
>>reader and back everything up.
>
>Which apparently took forever, more than one install, the CD
>was corrupted and the 'experienced' slackware user didn't use
>fsck to fix his filesystem, he decided to install a different
>OS which is not capable of fixing his filesystem. I just do
>not believe this tale.
With all due respect, I think you're playing games with Ayende's
anecdote. The unfortunate user was, I believe, trying to get Windows
running so that he could get on the Internet to find out what the
problem is. The user was running Slackware, not a distro for the easily
intimidated. Unfortunately, he was easily intimidated, since he wasn't
familiar with fsck or ext2 (and the fact that the first would fix his
problem, and the second cannot be read by Windows). When the winvocate
was asked to explain why a Win98 CD couldn't install, said winvocate
attempted to make it sound trivial to use a file from an alternate
language installation. (I'm sure that will never cause any weird
phantom problems later on. Not.) Tried to make it sound like a walk in
the park. Pretended it was the user's fault for not knowing how to
extract a file from a cab (I suppose MS includes the tools on the CD,
somewhere.) Its still possible, however, that simply knowing how to run
fsck would have avoided the whole Windows Monstrosity problem.
This story doesn't say much about Linux or Windows, the user or
Microsoft, or the Winvocate involved. The fact that posters are more
intent on picking apart the details than simply pointing out the
silliness of the whole thing does not say much about the posters here,
though. Its understandable with Winvocates that they wouldn't get a
break when posting such an anecdote, but its more productive to simply
point out the problems were:
a) user didn't know enough about Linux (understandable, as its an OS,
and therefore complicated, and nobody starts out an expert.)
b) user didn't know enough about Windows (understandable, as its
proprietary and badly designed, so nobody is ever an expert; just
certified in knowing how to get around its bad design.)
Had the user known either how to use fsck, or how to use a command line
DOS session to search unknown cabs in an unknown directory somewhere on
a CD known to be corrupted. Of course, had he known the second, it
would merely have enabled him to learn the first, or at least we
speculate this is the case.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Date: 26 Nov 2000 16:08:06 GMT
On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 05:11:25 -0500, Donn Miller wrote:
Another useful thing you can do is run "pdflatex" and get a pdf file
back. In fact you can even put hypertext links in your PDF (or dvi!)
files. See \usepackage{hyperref}
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Mandrake 7.2 Quick Review
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:17:21 GMT
That's what I did but there is something wrong with the image.
claire
On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 06:42:44 -0800, Pan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> After failing to get the Cheapbytes version to install on my laptop
>> via a bootdisk because CDROM is not bootable,
>
>Why didn't you use dosutils and make your own bootdisk with rawrite? It
>takes about 30 seconds.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:00:30 +0200
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Curtis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 24 Nov 2000 19:06:39 -0500;
> >If I have 5 HTML documents, I can't associate each to be opened with a
> >different editor using shortcuts.
>
> Actually, you can. Sort of, at least. You can make shortcuts which
> call the app and load the doc, and use them instead of the original doc
> icons. Rather simple, don't you think?
>
> Wouldn't work for links, but then you could just use a one line shell
> script.
What links are you talking about?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:03:35 +0200
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > It's United Parcel Service, btw.
> >
> > What I don't understand is how a UPS can solve problem in the FS.
> > It's like changing a monitor to fix the sound card problems.
>
> I believe the area where my sis-in-law lives has crappy power.
> The UPS is there as a prophylactic, not to fix anything. And
> I've not had any trouble calls from her since.
>
> I became a believe in UPS's when the power flickered for the
> 3rd time in a week at my place. I ran out to Walmart immediately
> and bought one.
>
> You can get pretty good ones for around $80 nowadays.
I just got one ;)
I've been putting on plugging it in because I've been doing some work that
required my home computer to be online for the last couple of days.
Task has ended, and I (finally) got Whistler, I'm going to install it just
as soon as I can clear a drive for it.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:09:43 +0200
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > The file system was fucked up, the computer had no OS.
> > I reinstalled linux so the computer would have an os.
>
> You mean you had a "naked PC"? And you installed, not a
> freshly-purchased copy of Windows, but a rogue operating
> system?!! You unwitting pirate!!! <grin>
LOL
> > > The registry is as likely to be damaged as any other file.
> >
> > No, it isn't.
> > The only way to access the registry is through the APIs
> > And the APIs keeps the registry structure.
>
> I wonder if the Registry has any backdoors or overflow
> exploits that haven't been discovered...
The registry is controled through a very limited set of commands, and it's
the second most important part of windows (the first being the kernel)
So I don't think so.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:10:26 +0200
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Your experience appears to be unique.
> > >
> > > I recommend Debian GNU/Linux to anyone. One of the main
> > > advantages of Linux over other OSs is that it has support for
> > > a huge range of filesystems.
> > >
> > > One of those filesystems is FAT, so if you believe the previous
> > > poster (against all known evidence) that FAT is better than
> > > ext2 - well, you can use it in Linux.
> >
> > IIRC, UMSDOS linux are unanimously known to suck.
>
> What do you mean by this statement?
That to the best of my knowledge, it's highly unrecommended to run linux on
FAT partitions.
I apologize for my english, it's not my first language.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:21:55 +0200
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 24 Nov 2000
> >And corrupted file systems don't usually happen with NTFS since it's
> >journaled. And I have never experienced a corrupted registry except when
> >the hard disk developed bad spots.
>
> No, you've never known that it was a corrupted registry that caused your
> system to fail. But since you're not even willing to admit your system
> has ever failed, and expect us to believe that somewhere, somehow,
> monopoly crapware is the height of robust and reliable technology, just
> because we can't prove your system has ever failed, I guess that's
> rather impossible to discuss.
No, corrupted registry is one thing, it *rarely* happens, as in once in a
blue moon.
Corrupted registry *entries* is another thing, and it can lead
application/the system as a whole to be unstable or unfunctioning.
If I put bad data in /etc, the result would be the same.
GIGO
------------------------------
From: Russ Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: C++ is very alive!
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:34:30 GMT
mlw wrote:
>
> Charlie Ebert wrote:
> >
> > Aren't you people forgetting that HURD is based
> > on C++ with that microkernel technology.
> >
> > They are going the be the C++ club of the future.
> >
> > C++ is far from dead. It's just not being used
> > as few old timers really understand how to use it.
>
> !!! Warning!!! The following reads like flame bait, to many it may be.
> It is not intended to be. !!
>
> I know lots of engineers that use C++.
>
> If I should be so bold, software engineers use tools like C++,
> programmers use stuff like Java or VB. There is a difference, and it is
> important to remember.
>
> What is an AVL tree, can you write one?
Adelson-Velskii & Landis tree. Yes
> What is a hash table, how would you write one?
> What is a radix?
Also known as "base", as in base-10, base-16, base-2, etc.
> How does bsearch work? Could you write one?
Binary Search? Binomonial-search? Yes
> What is a histogram? Can you write one?
A graph to represent data after it has been sorted into bins. Because a
histogram is a graphical representation, it doesn't seem quiet right to
say you would "write" a histogram. But we are probably talking semantic
opinions.
> When is qsort a bad choice?
Most of the time. But it is really bad if the partitioning routine
divides the data into sets of 1 element and n-1 elements.
> What other types of sorting algorithms are there, and what are the
> pros/cons?
Lots. merge sort, insertion sort, radix sort, etc. Each has
characteristics that depend on the data.
> What would you a histogram for?
Back to the semantics? Any way, putting data into bins is often used in
anything involving statistical analysis : Kalman filters, image feature
detection, etc.
> What would you use an AVL tree for? How about a hash table?
When some insertion cost can be traded for good lookup speed. Hashtables
can be used to save/lookup data if collisions are rare (but you trade
memory for speed on sparse tables).
> How does a linked list work? How about a double linked list?
Node has pointer to child node. Node has pointers to child and parent
node.
> How do you simulate subtraction with addition?
twos-complement and add.
> Which can be written more efficiently, divide by 3 or divide by 4?
Normally divide by 4. But processors with a built in DIV operator might
not show any difference.
> On a pentium which is more efficient integer arithmetic or or floating
> precision? How about PIII? Why?
Don't have a book on the Pentium or PIII. On most processors of that
general architecture, integer arithmetic is faster because the floating
point divide doesn't work well.
TMS320 series, for example, can do floating point multiply and add in
one clock cycle, but ends up using over 100 to do a divide.
> What is the advantage of keeping objects in memory closer to one
> another? When/how is this a problem in a multitasking multiprocessor
> environment?
Depends on objects. In multitasking-multiprocessing systems, objects
need to be confined to the memory block they are associated with. You
never want one process trying to directly access objects in another
process memory space.
> What are the trade-offs between fixed memory block allocation vs
> variable block?
You might not find memory for variable block allocation, but fixed block
might allocate memory that is never used.
> How about first fit, last fit, or best bit allocation strategies?
>
Got a definition of these? Haven't seen those terms.
> These are all very important questions (and only scratching the
> surface). If you do not know these sorts of things cold, then you are a
> programmer and are probably better off doing stuff in Java or some other
> limited environment until you learn more. It isn't until you understand
> these sorts of things do you understand how to develop software.
>
Except for the last item and the Pentium specific question, I work with
those items every day. Implementing them has nothing to do with choice
of language. You can do all of them in any complete language : assembly,
Ada, C, C++, Java, Pascal, COBOL, FORTRAN, BASIC, whatever. In fact I
have written them in all of the above except COBOL. The advantage of
Ada, C, and Java is that once written in those languages, I can use them
almost anywhere. Java is the best for networks, but Ada and C are best
for microcontroller/DSP targets. C++ is best if you have a good process,
want to hire cheap programmers(Ada programmers are expensive!), and lots
of memory is available .
> I am aware that many will be pissed off by this attitude, but in
> defense, it should be noted that a good number of people take software
> development seriously. We spend years learning and improving our skills.
> It takes an amount of dedication to get to the point where the question
> about how to do something is a no brainer, and the tricks are purely
> implementation issues on ever changing platforms.
>
> C++ isn't dead, far from it. It is a power tool. people with few skills
> are scared of powertools. Craftsmen love powertools because they know
> how to use them, they make the job easier and, in the end, make a better
> product.
>
People with real understanding use the best tool for the job. Define
your requirements first. Then do a preliminary design. Next, do a trade
study and pick your tools. After all, a "Power" saw isn't very good at
pulling a plow on a hillside.
> --
> http://www.mohawksoft.com
--
Russ Lyttle, PE
<http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
Not Powered by ActiveX
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: C++ is very alive!
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:43:41 GMT
On Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:37:43 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I know lots of engineers that use C++.
So do I. I also know engineers that use Ada and Java.
>If I should be so bold, software engineers use tools like C++,
>programmers use stuff like Java or VB.
You are mistaken.
[snip test questions]
>These are all very important questions (and only scratching the
>surface). If you do not know these sorts of things cold, then you are a
>programmer and are probably better off doing stuff in Java or some other
>limited environment until you learn more. It isn't until you understand
>these sorts of things do you understand how to develop software.
I agree that anyone calling themselves a "software engineer" ought to
score pretty high on your little quiz. However, I don't agree at all
with the implication that "real engineers use C++". There are lots of
fools using C++ and lots of "real engineers" using Java. Years ago
there were people saying that "real engineers" used only assembler and
the attitude that speaks to is still wrong today.
I don't think a "software engineer" is defined by his tools, rather he
knows how to use several tools and applies the one best suited for the
job. That tool may be C++, or it may be something else. Algorithms
and data structures and the other things in your quiz are useful to
know whatever language you use.
>C++ isn't dead, far from it. It is a power tool. people with few skills
>are scared of powertools. Craftsmen love powertools because they know
>how to use them, they make the job easier and, in the end, make a better
>product.
Or not. Sometimes a Hole Hawg is the right tool, sometimes it is
overpowered and clumsy.
Craftsmen know how to use a variety of tools and can decide for
themselves what each one is best at.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: Re: C++ is very alive!
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:44:14 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
mlw wrote:
>>
>> I would agree with these comments. It's just not a commonly used
>> tool. But it has many benefits which if people used them we would
>> have better software today.
>
>When you say it is not a commonly used tool, how do you based this? It
>has no fewer people using it. Its usership has not dropped, but has
>grown.
>
I'll answer that by observing the appearent lack of commerical
demand for the skills. In today's world the majority demand seems
to be for Cobol or VB skills. Occasionally you will see a job
listed for Delphi skills or VC or C++ but it is rare.
I will agree with you that it has probably not dropped.
Dropped is not a word that I used. But it's demand never
took off like the other languages did.
>The space of people trying to develop software has grown immensely. More
>safe language usage for trivial tasks. (When the word 'trivial' is used,
>it is not intended to mean unimportant, it is intended to mean without
>serious complications.)
>
As I said, OOP in Cobol is getting rave reviews as the insurance
industry is beginning to use it to solve complex policy calculation
issue which are becomming clouded by perform based top-down design.
Frankly, in my arena, you could say that C never really got a toe
hold on the market either.
>When I have to write PHP code to access an SQL database, there aren't
>many issues I have to deal with, just does my query work, and does it
>return what I want. (Being dedicated to detail, I do analyze the query
>and make sure it is as efficient as it can be.) This is an example of
>"trivial" I'm not going to coredump, I'm not going to corrupt the file
>system, still, it is 100% necessary to do.
>
>But remember, all the higher level languages must be written in
>something lower level like C/C++.
>
>
>--
>http://www.mohawksoft.com
You can take MF cobol for an example here. It's written in C.
And Lawson {a 4gl language} is written on top of MF cobol.
What's funny about this is MF cobol is capable of interfacing with
Windows API's and the sorted system calls within OS400's and also
HP-UX. The people at Lawson rarely have to engage C skills to
develop the 4gl system they make.
There used to be a time when C was relyed on as the bridging
agent between the operating system and the Cobol executable.
They seemed to have closed most of those gaps in the last 12
years.
If I were to write full time at a C level, I would probably use
C++ as it's what I like to use at home. There are occasional
utilities that I've written in C++ because of performance issues.
Granted, it would be silly to write a kernel using Cobol.
Even sillier to write it in lowbal. Yet these languages
are targeted for an arena of rapid change.
C is targeted for an arena of performance related missions.
C++ is performance with structured design.
Interestingly enough, I challenged someone to rewrite a
fairly complex routine in C++ to replace a 10 page cobol
program. The candidate suceeded in this task and
built an executable which knocked 10 seconds off the runtime
of a 4-5 minute long report. But he spent 3 weeks writing it.
I would not suggest you use C++ for applications which require
rapid and accurate change.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: "James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:40:01 +0200
Monkey,
Yes, KDE2 does remind me of Win2k which I also like (I'm not a zealot). I
now run WinNT4 on my office desktop (company policy, otherwise it will be
Win2k), Win2k on Home-1 and LM7.2/LM7.2 on Home-2. To me it [KDE2] defines
the future of the Linux desktop. Why? For one, it's attractive and
configurable.
If you like Gnome, then stick with it.
James
"A transfinite number of monkeys" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:14:58 +0200, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : IMHO the Gnome team is now in serious catchup mode.
>
> Since it's your opinion, I'm sure you can back that up with a
justification,
> RIGHT? Let's hear it.. KDE still looks very cartoony to me. If I want a
> cartoon, I'll go watch TV...
>
> --
> Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
> jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: C++ is very alive!
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:47:46 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mlw wrote:
>
>
> When you say it is not a commonly used tool, how do you based this? It
> has no fewer people using it. Its usership has not dropped, but has
> grown.
>
> The space of people trying to develop software has grown immensely. More
> safe language usage for trivial tasks. (When the word 'trivial' is used,
> it is not intended to mean unimportant, it is intended to mean without
> serious complications.)
Wouldn't it be fair to say that the number of people building with c++
has dropped relative to the total number of developers? I'm sure this
relates to massive growth in the number of programming languages where
you don't have to worry about things like memory management, or where
the only type of sort you need to worry about is something on order of
@sorted_data = sort(@data);
# yes, that's an exaggeration, but you get the idea
Having said that, I've spent the last several years trying to improve my
admittedly pedestrian skills with c and c++ for precisely many of the
reasons you state. I even surprised myself insofar as I could
legitimately answer about half or 2/3rds of the questions that you hit
Charlie with. But I still wouldn't hire myself to program in c++
despite the fact that I have been working at it for longer than I have
been working with other languages like perl or php, and that gets at why
the number of c++ application developers is dropping relative to the
total population of application developers. It takes longer to become
proficient at c or c++ than it does with perl, python java, php, etc. It
takes longer to develop with c or c++ than it does with those higher
level languages, and and with the majority of tasks, the benefit simply
doesn't outweigh the cost.
Aside: All of this growth is a good thing: For example, 4-5 years ago,
you couldn't find a free c++ compiler for windows ( why I switched to
linux in the first place ). Now, Borland is giving away their v. 5.5
command line compiler, gcc is now an option, and I think there are even
a few others. It's nice to see that the marketplace is shifting to make
things freely available on all platforms. Money should never keep people
from learning a skillset in this industry.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://salvador.venice.ca.us
------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: C++ is very alive!
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:51:45 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> mlw wrote:
> >>
> >> I would agree with these comments. It's just not a commonly used
> >> tool. But it has many benefits which if people used them we would
> >> have better software today.
> >
> >When you say it is not a commonly used tool, how do you based this? It
> >has no fewer people using it. Its usership has not dropped, but has
> >grown.
> >
>
> I'll answer that by observing the appearent lack of commerical
> demand for the skills. In today's world the majority demand seems
> to be for Cobol or VB skills.
Cobol??? Cobol seems very much in decline in the mainframe world. Most
of the enterprise jobs I see are for java programmers. Almost all of
the java jobs I see listed require, or request a background in C++ for
rather obvious reasons.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://salvador.venice.ca.us
------------------------------
From: "James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:49:49 +0200
"James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3a213ce5$0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Monkey,
>
> Yes, KDE2 does remind me of Win2k which I also like (I'm not a zealot). I
> now run WinNT4 on my office desktop (company policy, otherwise it will be
> Win2k), Win2k on Home-1 and LM7.2/LM7.2 on Home-2. To me it [KDE2]
defines
... should read LM7.2/DKE2 ...
> the future of the Linux desktop. Why? For one, it's attractive and
> configurable.
> If you like Gnome, then stick with it.
>
> James
>
> "A transfinite number of monkeys" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Sat, 25 Nov 2000 17:14:58 +0200, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > : IMHO the Gnome team is now in serious catchup mode.
> >
> > Since it's your opinion, I'm sure you can back that up with a
> justification,
> > RIGHT? Let's hear it.. KDE still looks very cartoony to me. If I want
a
> > cartoon, I'll go watch TV...
> >
> > --
> > Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
> > jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
> > Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
>
>
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