Linux-Advocacy Digest #620, Volume #30 Sun, 3 Dec 00 02:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Netscape review. ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Netscape review. ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Netscape review. (bob_more)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Whistler review. ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: OS Sound OFF. (.)
Re: Netscape review. (Peter Ammon)
Re: OS tree - SOUND OFF! ("Tom Wilson")
Re: how come Dell makes you buy Windows with all their PC's? (jtnews)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Linux is awful ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Netscape review.
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 06:11:22 GMT
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:XwjW5.29055$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:dy9W5.36188$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >>
> > > It works now, but in the recent past the page did not display at
> > > all under Netscape, either windows or linux. I don't think anyone
> > > is going to admit whether this was intentional or they just used
> > > their own tools that encourage that to happen.
> >
> > I've never had that problem. In fact 15 months ago I posted a code
snippet
> > from the Microsoft home page showing where they scripted different
> displays
> > for different browsers.
>
> The time I noticed it was within the last 2 months, and I don't know how
> long it lasted. I don't visit there often... But, since someone else
> brought
> the issue up I know it wasn't just me.
OK haven't seen it myself.
>
> > > > If you had done some advance HTML-authoring (java-script, dhtml,
css)
> > you
> > > > would realize that it is a nightmare to try to do it for netscape.
> > >
> > > You mean using the MS tool set that only works right when viewed
> > > with IE?
> > >
> >
> > IE works better, period.
>
> If you don't mind the virus exposure, the non-standardness, and the
limited
> platform where you can use it. Netscape probably could do as well if
> they replaced most of the system dlls like IE does.
>
Proper security limits virus exposure. Non-Standardness just doesn't seem
to add up when it works on all web sites but according to you Nutscrape
can't. Limited Platform, 90%+ of all desktops are a limited platform. The
application is also available for most eunics just not the red-hatted
bastard step-child.
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Netscape review.
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 06:12:53 GMT
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:hAjW5.29056$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "bob_more" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > just on observation, of all the reviews I've heard about netscrape 6, be
> it on
> > windows, mac or linux, it sucks. I just would like to point out the one
> thing
> > that has changed since earlier versions, the rather unsavory influence
of
> aol.
> >
>
> That is just a side effect. We all know the real reason Netscape has not
> been a viable company since about 1994 when Microsoft was legally
> constrained from bundling a browser with their OS but chose to
> ignore it.
>
Nutscrape stopped being a viable company in 1996 when they started releasing
buggy, bloated and unstable code. They lost the competition to Microsoft
through their own incompetence.
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Netscape review.
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: bob_more <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 01:10:58 -0500
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:dy9W5.36188$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>>
> > It works now, but in the recent past the page did not display at
> > all under Netscape, either windows or linux. I don't think anyone
> > is going to admit whether this was intentional or they just used
> > their own tools that encourage that to happen.
>
> I've never had that problem. In fact 15 months ago I posted a code snippet
> from the Microsoft home page showing where they scripted different
displays
> for different browsers.
The time I noticed it was within the last 2 months, and I don't know how
long it lasted. I don't visit there often... But, since someone else
brought
the issue up I know it wasn't just me.
> > > If you had done some advance HTML-authoring (java-script, dhtml, css)
> you
> > > would realize that it is a nightmare to try to do it for netscape.
> >
> > You mean using the MS tool set that only works right when viewed
> > with IE?
> >
>
> IE works better, period.
If you don't mind the virus exposure, the non-standardness, and the limited
platform where you can use it.
just a side note, I can emulate ie 5 on linux with win4lin, a trelos product,
good one to, btw, so for limited platform, I offer you, not nessicarily in
mickeysoft's favor, but, you have it on mac, on windoze and I can emulate it on
linux, I've heard rumors (which I doubt) of it working through wine as well,
but the tweaks in that case would be frightening.
Netscape probably could do as well if
they replaced most of the system dlls like IE does.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 06:15:36 GMT
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 02 Dec 2000 02:14:10 GMT, Chad C. Mulligan
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Try reading HTML 1.1 web pages with Netscrape 1......
>
> I'm guessing you're referring to HTTP 1.1 and name-based virtual hosts,
> since HTML is up to v4 or something. And of course the response is
> that HTTP 1.1 doesn't apply to the HTML itself but to the transfer
> protocol. HTML on your hard disk is readable even by Mosaic.
>
Thanks, my mistake. s/v4/1.1/.
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| To Whom You Are Speaking
> -| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 06:20:42 GMT
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:vsjW5.29053$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:ZD9W5.36230$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > >
> > > > Win2k handle the biggest site in the world, and the second most
> popular.
> > >
> > > With help from load-balancing equipment that hides the dead ones,
> > > protects them from pings, and the like.
> >
> > Firewalls aside, the loadbalancing is handled by the OS. Check out
> theWLBS
> >
>
http://www.microsoft.com/NTServer/ntserverenterprise/exec/overview/Clusterin
> > g/CompeteOverview.asp
>
> I'm in the process of specing out a replacement for WLBS on some of our
> machines.
> It seemed like a good idea for a couple of servers starting out, but on
> Win2k
> you have to buy Advanced Server to get it (so add $2k per box...) and it
> works at the IP stack level, not application connection level so if the
box
> is
> alive but the app died it will let the connections fail without detecting
> the problem.
> I suspect MS isn't using it as the only mechanism for Microsoft.com, and
> probably not at all since it would expose the failing IIS programs for as
> long
> as it takes for some other test to detect them and remove them from the
> cluster.
>
Your inhouse problems aside. www.microsoft.com is using it according to
their on-line documentation about it. IIRC their was a version for NT4
server available for download.
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: OS Sound OFF.
Date: 3 Dec 2000 06:25:52 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 2 Dec 2000 19:51:42 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>> Win98SE for digital audio work.Highly customized and bare bones
>>> install with no internet connection, games etc. Only programs are
>>> digital audio ones.
>>
>>And awful, no doubt. When are you going to catch up with the rest
>>of the world?
> As usual you are talking out of your arse.
> Name one, even one, professional level digital audio program for
> Linux.
Why? You should be using macs in the first place.
=====.
------------------------------
From: Peter Ammon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Netscape review.
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 01:33:47 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
>
> Have you ever developed web pages? Complex ones?
> Guess who is the one that adher to standards and who is the one who isn't?
> In this case, Microsoft was the one that most closely adhered standards.
> Netscape can't *handle* standards.
> They had to rebuilt their entire codebase because of that.
> And guess who is the browser that forced me to break my pages' standard
> compliance before?
> Guess who is the browser that now force me to hack my own code, in order to
> fix things that it made me do the wrong way in the first place?
Much as I hate to admit it, you're right. Last summer, when I developed
some pretty sophisticated web pages, I made the mistake of "debugging"
them exclusively in Internet Explorer. I got them to the point where I
thought they were finished, but then I loaded them in Netscape, and the
damage was pretty severe.
The most egregious example was in Javascript. You can declare a
function to execute when you close a window, and in Internet Explorer,
this works fine. But in Netscape, when the window closes, it
immediately stops the execution of the function! You aren't guaranteed
that even the first line of your function will execute under Netscape,
which means that you can never use the feature.
-Peter
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS tree - SOUND OFF!
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 06:33:07 GMT
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> The last thread I started concerning the current OS
> your using is very interesting reading and it's
> still getting attention.
>
> I thought it would be interesting reading and
> refreshing to see your PC history's revealed here.
>
> So from the time you first got any kind of PC forward,
> SOUND OFF.
A total list would resemble a novel, so i'll just list the important ones...
Homemade S100 Bus Z80 system (1K ram)
Put together from schematics found in a book. Looks like a prop from a
50's sci-fi movie. About as useful too! Important because of a
self-discovery while building it. Though I was built like a jock, I
discovered I was really a nerd. System whereabouts unknown.
???
I know what the system is but I'm withholding its' identification
because the last time I mentioned I had one, I got tons of private e-mail
from people wanting to buy it. IT'S NOT FOR SALE! I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH YOU
OFFER!
KayPro
The big, blue, sheet-metal-clad, CP/M running "portable". Display went
out on it. One of these days, I'm going to fix it. I still miss the thing!
Commodore Vic-20
64K RAM (The majority of which was mapped ROM so it really couldn't be
used), 22 column display. I mostly played Choplifter, Sargon Chess, and Gorf
on it. You couldn't do much else. Still works. Taught me never to trust
products endorsed by William Shatner.
Texas Instruments TI 99/4A
A neighbor was about to throw it away. I salvaged it and got it up and
running. Saw what it was about. Got up and threw it away. It helped me pass
a rainy Saturday afternoon and taught me to never trust products endorsed by
Bill Cosby.
Sinclair ZX-81
The 99.00 kit computer. Membrane keyboard. 1K ram. Paperback book sized.
Kinda cute. Too small to hold doors open or weigh paper down, so, it had to
go.
Commodore 64
The best video game produced in the 80's. Learned 6510 assembly
programming and broke TONS of copy protection schemes with it. A toy, yes,
but a fun one. Still works!
DEC-Pro 350
My first REAL computer, other than the KayPro. Had the most crisp amber
screen display I've ever seen. SuperCalc at 132 columns could be used for
eight hours straight with zero eye-strain. Slow as molasses. Required these
odd-ball Quad-Density diskettes. Regular DSDD floppies had too low a
coercivity to be reliable. It died horribly. I miss it though.
Zenith Z-248 (286/12 AT Clone)
My first Intel machine.Seagate ST-251-1 40MB hard drive and 1MB ram.
Industrial case. Still works.
Zenith Z-386 (386/16)
One of the first 386 based systems. 16Mhz, 2MB ram, Seagate ST-4096 3/4
height 80MB. Had to get a replacement processor as the first batch of 386's
had the 32-bit bug. Ran SCO-Xenix System V and powered six Wyse terminals
via an AST-SixPack. Still works. Even the ST-4096 still works (one of the
few). Most reliable system I've ever owned. Say what you will, but, Zenith
Data Systems made some amazing desktops back in the day.
( Skipping Several )
P-166 Spare Parts Mini-Tower System (Frankenputer)
My worst case scenario software test system. Now, my development system
as I sold my dual processor tower and vowed never to develop software again.
I've come back to the Dark Side, though. Will eventually become a
print-server/fax-server, and firewall for the home network.
Next systems
A P-III for my soon to be wife so she'll leave MY shit alone!
A Dual processor PIII for PC development and whatnot.
and....
UltraSparc, baby...UltraSparc...Papa wants an UltraSparc!
--
Tom Wilson
A Computer Programmer who wishes he'd chosen another vocation.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 01:40:07 -0500
From: jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: how come Dell makes you buy Windows with all their PC's?
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> First, if you're saying that it's "not true" that the Dimension is available
> with Linux, you are simply wrong. Go look at the webpage.
I did look at the web page. The Dimension models for Linux are NOT
cheaper
than the Windows models!
I don't want mid-range models. I want the cheapest models without
Windows.
The cheapest model WITHOUT Windows should cost LESS than the cheapest
model
WITH Windows. The cheapest model uses a Soundblaster sound chip and
Intel AGP
graphics. There's no problem with Linux compatibility there.
A brand new version of Windows ME costs in excess of $100 at retail.
If I could shave off another $100 on the CHEAPEST model by not having
to buy Windows, that choice should be made available!
>Look, if you're really concerned about the issue, don't buy hardware
>from Dell -- support a Linux-only hardware shop like aslab instead.
>Don't give Dell your dollar vote, and then complain.
Unfortunately, a little tiny hardware shop can't compete with Dell when
Dell
gets huge volume discounts.
Something clearly is not right with the pricing structure even now.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 06:45:29 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8Q4W5.6538$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>
> >>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>
> >> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>
> > Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>
> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
You'd be surprised....
Never underestimate the idiot factor.
--
Tom Wilson
A Computer Programmer who wishes he'd chosen another vocation.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 06:35:42 GMT
Now I'll probably get heaps of people not agreeing with what I'm about
to say ....but oh well
I used Linux distros with sucess for quite some time including
Redhat,Mandrake & Suse & all were quite good .
The reason that I used them was because Win 98 was pure & simply crap!
However I now use Win 2000 pro much more than Linux because it is so
much more stable than any other Windows that I have used . There are
some progs that have trouble running , but then Linux still has that
problem also.
I'm not putting Linux down , but now comparing it to w2k , I think
Linux has to lift its game a bit to compete.....
I expect to be called a winger & 'go back to windoze NG's' , etc and
that is probably my main problem with all of the Linux NG - any hint of
dissent with Linux attracts stupid comments instead of constructive
comments.
Kratzman
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Skully1900) wrote:
> Comparing Linux to Windows 2000 is like comparing the Space Shuttle
to a bottle
> rocket and Linux isn't the Space Shuttle. I just installed Mandrake
7.2 and I,
> and the 3 other people using it are not impressed at all. This is our
first
> venture into the world of Linux, and will be our last at least until
Linux can
> match Windows 2000 in some very basic area's. First off we used
Mandrake 7.2
> complete from Mcmillan and you should be warned about the false
advertising on
> the box. First of all this is NOT a complete version of Linux if only
for no
> server version install offered. Also the tech support is for TWO
INCIDENTS via
> Email and for installation only. They don't tell you about the two
incident
> part on the box. We sent several questions, none of which were
answered. The
> install program is broken badly. If you type the command for expert
setup at
> the boot prompt which is supposed to turn off hardware checking etc,
it doesn't
> work. It still goes off on autopilot and tries to detect hardware
anyway. This
> was a major problem on a laptop we were trying to install on because
it kept
> detecting the wrong video chip and all we got on bootup was a white
screen with
> no way of killing it except power off. No killing the X-server and no
way into
> an alternet console. There was also no way around this because even
on boot up
> selecting i for interactive was interactive only up to starting X and
it did
> that no matter what we selected.
>
> On the other 2 systems things installed better but KDE 2.0 is very
unstable. It
> too locks up frequently, especially when exiting it but we can kill
it and it
> doesn't take things down. So now it was time to play with the
systems. We were
> able to set up the network ok and get Internet Connection Sharing up
and
> running even easier than with Windows 2000 but why no dial on demand
that will
> work with kppp and the Gnome dialer? I know it can be done with
scripts but a
> newbie is going to use kppp which is set up as part of the install.
Security
> seemed preety good taking a trip over to Gibsons site. Most things
seemed to
> work, but there is a major problem and that is what is going to send
people
> back to Windows.
>
> Linux gui just looks terrible. No matter what screen fonts,
resolution or
> refresh rate is picked it is simply hard on the eyes. Many of the
Gnome themes
> are dark and hard to see. Netscape is the worst in this reagard being
painful
> to look at even with imported Windows TT fonts using DrakConf. By
contrast
> Microsoft Windows is smooth and crisp looking. Mind you were using an
Nvidia
> and a Matrox card, both of which look stunning on Windows. People are
going to
> take one look at this mess and they will return it because it looks
so boxy and
> awful.
>
> We have played with fonts, colors and themes and quite frankly have
had it.
>
> Between the crashing of the GUI, crappy look and yes the lack of
quality
> (although there is no lack of quantity) applications, Linux is a non
issue
> around here. It's off our systems and we have fired off a letter to
Mcmillin
> requesting a refund for deceptive packaging.
>
> Rozzi
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
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