Linux-Advocacy Digest #620, Volume #32 Sat, 3 Mar 01 17:13:08 EST
Contents:
Re: Mircosoft Tax ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Mircosoft Tax ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Mircosoft Tax ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: .NET is plain .NUTS (Bloody Viking)
Re: KDE or DOJ ? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: NT vs *nix performance ("Nik Simpson")
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! (Peter Hayes)
Re: .NET is plain .NUTS (Bloody Viking)
Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft (Bloody Viking)
Re: Windows ME doesn't BSOD on me (Bloody Viking)
Re: Yet More Evidence of MS as Antichrist! (WAS: New Microsoft Ad :-) ) (Form@C)
Re: Windows ME doesn't BSOD on me (Bloody Viking)
Re: KDE or GNOME? ("Spicerun")
Re: A very funny Linux story! "Red Flag Linux" (jtnews)
Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft (jtnews)
Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft (jtnews)
Re: New Microsoft Ad :-) (Ed Allen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 15:14:11 -0600
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:97qmrd$59k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Those were rhetorical questions. The original poster (Craig, I think)
> > asked a similar question.
>
> You looked verty much like you were trying to make a point
Yes, the point was that it was a stupid question.
> > Someone else used new device drivers and USB to describe what was new in
> > 2.4, why can't I?
>
> Windows just has to rely on manufactures for most drivers. Linux has to
> rely on the community. The circumstances are quite different.
The circumstances are irrelevant. The question was asked, what was new in
Me that wasn't in Win 3.1.
> > And PWS works just fine. It's not feature laden, but it's a personal
>
> No it doesn't. And its not new. There was some personal web sharing on
> Win95.
But it wasn't in Win 3.1.
> > web server... claiming the quality of the app disqualifies it is rather
> > shaky ground for a Linux advocate to take, since the vast majority of
> > the apps that come with Linux are of questionable quality (90% of the
> > window managers are very buggy for instance).
>
> Thats just a lie. If you get a stable distro (such as debian stable) most
> things will be of high quality. Why do you keep posting wild and
> incorrect claims?
Debian makes no claims of quality, only that everything is "free".
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 15:19:58 -0600
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >I'm a little confused here. When exactly was Microsoft "almost giving
away "
> >the office products?
>
> When they were forcing OEMs to bundle it by threatening their Windows
> licenses, dumping it by using monopoly revenues to subsidize it, and
> further ensuring that consumers never saw the price tag for it, no
> matter what it was. So if you got a new PC, you got Office; that's
> "almost giving away", if you innocently presume it isn't monopolization.
You state this as fact. Yet, I've seen no evidence to support this. It
hasn't been asserted in any court of law.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 15:22:00 -0600
"Peter Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 21:07:07 -0600, "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Windows XP will ship in three major versions. Personal, Pro, and
Server.
> > Pro is equivelant to Windows 2000 today and will cost about the same.
> > Personal has fewer features and will cost what ME costs today.
>
> And will they have the same easy registry tweak to convert the one to the
> other as NT4 had?
The registry tweak didn't "convert one to the other". All it did was remove
the physical connection limitations and cause the OS to tune itself
differently. Changing a registry setting didn't automatically give you the
server software (such as DNS servers, WINS servers, DHCP servers), server
management utilities, etc... Further, it didn't change your license.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: .NET is plain .NUTS
Date: 3 Mar 2001 21:25:01 GMT
Peter Hayes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: The seller has built their business model on selling licences for their
: software. They have incurred a substantial loss. The purchaser agreed to
: certain conditions when they bought the software. If they wanted to buy one
: copy and distribute it company-wide, there are plenty of GPL licenced
: products that they could have purchased instead. Nobody forced them to buy
: commercially licensed software. They have broken the law and are also
: morally bankrupt.
But Copyright is an artificial construct based on man-made law. Therein lies
the giant difference between software and, say, cars. If I wanted to "copy" a
car, I would blow big bucks on the raw materials. Meanwhile, only the media is
physical with software.
Yes, I know about GPL freeware. And therein lies the morally bankrupt bullshit
with the fucking file formats that Microshit pulls. Where you ARE correct is
that two wrongs don't make a right. Why warez is wrong is from the licencing,
whereby it's a contract you make with the seller. When you buy Office, you are
making a promise to uphold your end of the contract, that is, install on _one_
box. Warez is breaking that contract, an inherent wrong.
Contract or not, the premise of Copyright, making the contract exist in the
first place, is also artificial while the copying of a car has a natural
barrier, being the raw materials. You don't see warez cars, but you do see
warez.
: Software is unique in this respect. What's needed is a general change of
: mindset to one that respects the work put in to create the software,
: together with respect for the authors' licensing policy. If they licence
: under the GPL, all well and good. If they licence as commercial software
: (assuming they are able to) that is also their right. Pay up or go
: elsewhere.
And, that's why I watch what I install, ensuring it's GNU if I intend to
install on more than one box.
: Some commercial software like 3DSMAX costs thousands, kids or hobbyists use
: warez versions for fun or self education and it can sometimes lead to a
: career. I see little wrong with that. They're not going to buy it, they
This with extremely costly software (where I used NT Server as the example) is
a case of people helping others out but such civility is made just as illegal
as the lamers with the warez games. Other examples of such warez would be
something like Novell Netware server OS-ware, CAD-ware, or software for
"vertical" markets.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE or DOJ ?
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 15:28:47 -0600
"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:7h2o6.3611$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:c_mn6.918$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Is this one of those things, like your criticism of OS/2, whereby
one
> > > > system having features or options that another doesn't is a strike
> > > > against the first on the grounds of it being "too complicated"?
> > >
> > > No, this is Erik just blowing smoke. KDE 2.1 has been out for only 2
> > > days. There is no way he has even tried it, let alone extensively.
> >
> > I used KDE 2.0 quite a bit. I can't imagine that 2.1 has changed it
that
> > radically in only the last 2 or 3 months since 2.0 was released.
>
> Don't let the version number increment deceive you, it has changed quite a
> lot and for the better I might add.
I've already appologized and stated I would refrain from comments about 2.1
until I have a chance to use it.
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.linux.sux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 16:28:50 -0500
"Johan Kullstam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > > What makes you think there would be a problem? Let's assume for the
> > > > moment that his hardware is up to the test.
> > >
> > > Dude... he's running a pentium pro 200 - it CANNOT generate that much
data.
> > > Hell, the bus he's on can't generate that much bandwidth.
> >
> > Give me some numbers, show me the proof. What bus are you talking
about?
> > The CPU bus? ISA bus for the network card? Were there any PPro
> > motherboards supporting PCI?
>
> yes. i've got two. a supermicro p6sne and some data general aviion
> motherboard in an alr revolution quad6.
Actually, you have an ALR Motherboard in a Data General box, the 6-way was
an ALR design, not DG.
--
Nik Simpson
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 21:30:16 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 03 Mar 2001 19:46:23 GMT, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <97r9bc$hmc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> > > I'm surprised any OS or application needs extra or multiple drivers in
> >
> > It doesn't.
>
> The Gimp does!
>
> > Is this clear enough for you:
> >
> > The OS has plenty of drivers. The GIMP provides its own regardless. THIS
> > IS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OS
>
> But WHY does The Gimp feel it is necessary to provide its own drivers?
> Doesn't The Gimp think the OS one's are good enough?
That's the $64,000 question.
Peter
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: .NET is plain .NUTS
Date: 3 Mar 2001 21:34:55 GMT
Aaron Kulkis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: I think that the only way out of this is to declare copyrights to be dead,
: as there is no longer *ANY* practical way to enforce them.
Not for books at least. And counterfeiters can still be found.
: Of course, since copyrights and patents are specified in Article I
: of the US Constitution, it's going to take a Constitutional Amendment
: to do the job.
A system of Patent and Copyright is _allowed_ not _mandated_ by the
Constitution. The congress could delete either or both at any time. Also, for
physical objects, patents are plenty enforcable. The problem is the copyright
bullshit with software. If congress deleted Copyright tomorrow, Bill Gates
would suddenly become poor. (: Good for him!
: Until then, the lawyers are going to make a *LOT* of money.
What else is new?
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft
Date: 3 Mar 2001 21:43:45 GMT
Charlie Ebert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
: >Bloody Viking wrote:
: >> Charlie Ebert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: >> : And my verdict: YES, Microsoft is dead.
: >> Not quite yet, but it is in its death throes.
: >"I'm getting better"
: Look. Could you help us out here?
And Linux is still gaining.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Windows ME doesn't BSOD on me
Date: 3 Mar 2001 21:46:17 GMT
Spicerun ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: True. Windows ME doesn't BSOD on me. It just locks up tighter than a drum
: where I have to *unplug* the machine and plug it back in to get it to
: boot back up.
DAMN! And NT will BSOD during the _install attempt_. You got farther than I
will EVER get with NT or newer!
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Yet More Evidence of MS as Antichrist! (WAS: New Microsoft Ad :-) )
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Form@C)
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 21:42:28 GMT
Joel Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
<Y3In6.145$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
<snip>
>never know if the hole does open up. And if for some reason word of the
>hole does leak out and Gates dissapears, Balmer can assure us that it
>was Bill's own fault the hole opened in the first place.
>
Wouldn't the hole be "a security leak caused by a badly behaved third-party
application"?
<grin>
--
Mick
Olde Nascom Computers - http://www.mixtel.co.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Windows ME doesn't BSOD on me
Date: 3 Mar 2001 21:47:40 GMT
Marada C. Shradrakaii ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: For 35 bucks and an hour or two you can fix that. Buy a power supply with an
: honest-to-the-diety power switch on the back. Install it. Then you just
: toggle the switch to get the power off if it locks up that way.
Or, open up the power supply and install the switch yourself. Or, install a
relay and have the "real hard reset" button by your keyboard.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: "Spicerun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE or GNOME?
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 15:49:31 -0600
In article <97rm95$r2vgc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Jakob Kosowski"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] BOZOIZED!> wrote:
> Why do so many people use Winblows? There must be a good reason for that
> :-|
It certainly had nothing to do with choice!
<plonk>
------------------------------
From: jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: A very funny Linux story! "Red Flag Linux"
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 21:43:56 GMT
oops, sorry I left out the link to the article.
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5008739.html?tag=lh
jtnews wrote:
>
> I read this article on CNET and found it quite amusing,
> especially when one thinks of what a "red flag"
> means in the United States.
>
> On a more serious note, I really don't understand
> why China is having such a hard time learning
> how to use Linux. It's not like the source
> code is hidden or there's a lack of adequate
> documentation on the Internet.
------------------------------
From: jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 21:46:53 GMT
If Linux was really going down, Microsoft
wouldn't be trying to put it
down, they'd simply ignore it
and try to improve their products
instead.
IBM's backing of Linux on the server end
has really gotten Microsoft's attention!
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5005017.html
Bloody Viking wrote:
>
> Charlie Ebert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> : In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> : >Bloody Viking wrote:
> : >> Charlie Ebert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> : >> : And my verdict: YES, Microsoft is dead.
> : >> Not quite yet, but it is in its death throes.
> : >"I'm getting better"
> : Look. Could you help us out here?
> And Linux is still gaining.
>
> --
> FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
> The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
> The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: "Linux is Going Down" says Microsoft
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 21:52:59 GMT
And the thing that's so nice about
having IBM as a Linux advocate is that
it's got a huge diversified income stream
from its services and hardware business,
no company can really intimidate Big Blue!
:-)
Unless Microsoft develops a similar diversified
source of income, I'm afraid gross profit margins
of Windows and their Office products will continue
to dwindle as the world transitions towards
networking applications coded in Java and
databases and office documents written in
non-proprietary formats such as XML!
:-)
jtnews wrote:
>
> If Linux was really going down, Microsoft
> wouldn't be trying to put it
> down, they'd simply ignore it
> and try to improve their products
> instead.
>
> IBM's backing of Linux on the server end
> has really gotten Microsoft's attention!
>
> http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5005017.html
------------------------------
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: New Microsoft Ad :-)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:01:02 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bloody Viking wrote:
>
>> So long as the electricity stays up! (: From my own expierence with Linux,
>> it's more reliable than the hardware and power companies or even power company
>> + marine batteries. It just doesn't crash unless you fuck up badly. The only
>> problem I ever have it seems is that wierd "Japanese" you get if you try to
>> cat a binary to the screen triggering it. I reboot only becuse I don't know
>> how to fix it otherwise, NOT becuse it crashed.
>
>I hate rebooting, that's one reason I like Linux so much.
>
>To get rid of the japanese, try typing "reset" in the terminal.
>It should reset the screen.
>
What has happened is that the binary file sent a ^N as it was catted
which selected the "alternate character set".
You can get the same effect by just 'echo ^V^N' at the command
prompt.
Typing 'echo ^V^O' will undo it again without clearing the screen
like 'reset'.
Those are not primarily Japanese characters, they are most often
used to draw little boxes around areas of the screen. Sometimes
they are even referred to as "the linedraw set".
For some real old Unix arcania, restore your screen with:
cat /bin/ls
That will restore the normal character set on every version of Unix/Linux
I have ever tried it on.
--
How much do we need to pay you to screw Netscape?
- BILL GATES, to AOL in a 1996 meeting
------------------------------
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