Linux-Advocacy Digest #777, Volume #30 Sat, 9 Dec 00 22:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux (Curtis)
Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Marty)
Re: Windows review ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows review ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows review ("Ayende Rahien")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Curtis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:14:28 -0500
"Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
| > >http://linux.nuvoli.to.it/varie/titanic/2494.html
| > >
| > >You'll see that Digital Unix, NT and Linux were all used.
| > >
| > >Both NT and Digital Unix were not selected for the final rendering
| > >because of cost, not capability.
| > >
| > >Linux's kernel needed significant enhancing to made suitable for the
| > >process, but this is what OSS is about .... having access to source
| > >which I can't take away as a definite advantage to Linux. :=)
| > >
| > >Anyway, the point is that Linux helped in the making of Titanic. It
| > >wasn't by any stretch of the imagination, exclusively used to create the
| > >graphics in the Titanic. It proved to be the best choice for the final
| > >rendering process but it wasn't used for actual design and creation of
| > >Titanic graphics, that was a job for NT and Digital Unix machines.
| > >
| > >--
| > >Curtis
| > >
| > >| ,__o
| > >!___ _-\_<, An egotist thinks he's in the groove
| > ><(*)>--(*)/'(*)______________________ when he's in a rut.
| > >
| >
| >
| > And this is the REAL truth, not some bullshit posting
| > from a moron who's refering to a newsthread rumor.
|
| Can't refute the evidence so attach the messenger. Penguinista prime
| directive.
Initially I gave his messages a mark as read status upon download but
now I'll delete them.
--
Curtis
| ,__o
!___ _-\_<, An egotist thinks he's in the groove
<(*)>--(*)/'(*)______________________ when he's in a rut.
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (ROT13 scrambled)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A transfinite number of monkeys)
Subject: Re: Server licensing Cost: Linux vs. NT
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:20:33 GMT
On Sat, 9 Dec 2000 16:44:01 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: > 2. Mail Server Sendmail $0.00 Exchange $1,299
:
: Sendmail is also avilable for NT. $0.00
Hmm.. Interesting. Link? The only Sendmail for NT that I know of is
the product that used to be developed by MetaInfo, but was sold off to
Sendmail, Inc. when Check Point bought MetaInfo. Their current pricing
for that product for 50 mailboxes is $495. For 5000 mailboxes, the
cost goes up to $9,995. Of course, on the Linux side, you can have
unlimited mailboxes for FREE.
: > 3. Database PostGreSQL $0.00 SeQueL $4,999 + $499/developer system
:
: MySQL exists for NT, free of course.
Have you ever actually used it? Running on NT, MySQL is pigdog slow.
: Linux: $9.99
: MS: $1,199.
:
: Oooh.. that $600 will go a long way.
And here I thought Microsquish fixed that darned bug in Windoze Calculator.
--
Jason Costomiris <>< | Technologist, geek, human.
jcostom {at} jasons {dot} org | http://www.jasons.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:22:31 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Marty writes:
>
> > Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
> >> Joe Malloy wrote:
>
> >>> The Tholen tholes:
>
> >>>>> I haven't seen any microwaves with an on/off button lately.
>
> >>>> Okay then, "Start/Stop", if you must be pedantic.
>
> >>> Whoa, this is the pot calling the kettle black! Pedantic to the
> >>> point of silliness, Tholen now turns around and uses pedanticism as
> >>> an attack. Great going, Tholen, you're really low on the
> >>> consistency list now!
>
> >> There's a reason why Tholen, in 12 years, has never budged from
> >> the TOP of my list as "GODDAMN STUPIDEST FUCKING IDIOT ON USENET"
>
> > Has he really been at it for TWELVE YEARS?!
>
> Of course not, Marty. Aaron is simply another in a series of liars.
I've seen nothing that leads me to agree with you.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Windows review
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 04:35:57 +0200
"JM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 08 Dec 2000 17:32:35 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >[snips]
>
> >"JM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On Fri, 08 Dec 2000 09:14:47 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> >> ("Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >
> >> Actually it's easier making a directory with a CLI, even in Windows.
> >> For instance, "mkdir \My Documents\misc\I_am_a_directory" is easier
> >> than:
> >>
> >> 1) Click on C:\,
> >> 2) Click on plus next to My Documents
> >
> >You forgot: Start Windows Explorer. Which defaults to starting in My
> >Documents.
> >
> >> 3) Click on plus next to misc.
> >
> >Or on misc itself.
> >
> >> 4) Right click in right pane
> >> 5) Wait for menu.
> >> 6) Move to "New".
> >> 7) Wait for next menu.
> >> 8) Move mouse all the way up to "Folder".
> >
> >Which is the entry right next to "new", at least here on my ME box.
> >
> >> 9) Click
> >> 10) Type in "I_am__directory".
> >
> >Okay, so let's see. I want to create a folder called Files from Boston,
in
> >the existing folder C:\My Documents\Data Files
> >
> >start explorer
> >click "+Data Files"
> >click "misc"
> >right-click in pane
> >select New, Folder
> >enter name
> >
> >as opposed to:
> >
> >mkdir C:\My Documents\I_am_a_directory
> >
> >So, I've got 5 mouseclicks and 17 keystrokes (I_am_a_directory[enter]).
> >Compare that to your method which takes 42 keystrokes and doesn't even
work
> >the way you wrote it. ("Too many parameters").
> >
> >So, you're advocating 42 keystrokes for a non-functioning approach over
17
> >keystrokes and 5 clicks, which actually end up doing the job, as somehow
> >superior, is that right?
>
> The difference is, how long does it take to do it? And how easy is it?
> With a GUI, you have to look constantly at where you're going, moving
> the mouse to exactly the wright position etc. With a command line,
> it's just a couple of seconds typing. Also, you don't need to go
> opening slow programs like Explorer.
ctrl+shit+E - luanch explorer
F6 - go to adress line
"My d" -- write four characters.
Down arrow -- Select "My Documents from the drop down menu.
Alt+F -- Go to File menu
Enter -- go to New menu
Enter -- Select Folder
"I_am_a_directory" -- Enter new name.
29 keystrokes.
compare to:
<win-key>+R -- luanch Run meu.
cmd -- load CLI
mkdir "C:\my documents\I_am_a_directory" -- this is how it would work.
better approach in CLI:
md c:\mydoc~1\I_am_a_directory
30 keystrokes only for the command, I got one less keystroke using the GUI,
no mouse involved.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:46:04 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
> Marty wrote:
>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>> Joe Malloy wrote:
>>>> The Tholen tholes:
>>>>>> I haven't seen any microwaves with an on/off button lately.
>>>>> Okay then, "Start/Stop", if you must be pedantic.
>>>> Whoa, this is the pot calling the kettle black! Pedantic to the
>>>> point of silliness, Tholen now turns around and uses pedanticism as
>>>> an attack. Great going, Tholen, you're really low on the
>>>> consistency list now!
>>> There's a reason why Tholen, in 12 years, has never budged from
>>> the TOP of my list as "GODDAMN STUPIDEST FUCKING IDIOT ON USENET"
>> Has he really been at it for TWELVE YEARS?!
> At least.
Liar.
> I first came across the anencephelac around 1988...
Irrelevant. What is relevant is when you first encountered me on
USENET, which could not possibly have been before I met the person
who introduced me to USENET.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:47:12 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>> Joe Malloy wrote:
>>>> The Tholen tholes:
>>>>>> I haven't seen any microwaves with an on/off button lately.
>>>>> Okay then, "Start/Stop", if you must be pedantic.
>>>> Whoa, this is the pot calling the kettle black! Pedantic to the
>>>> point of silliness, Tholen now turns around and uses pedanticism as
>>>> an attack. Great going, Tholen, you're really low on the
>>>> consistency list now!
>>> There's a reason why Tholen, in 12 years, has never budged from
>>> the TOP of my list as "GODDAMN STUPIDEST FUCKING IDIOT ON USENET"
>> Namely you're too afraid to admit the truth.
> I just did, Tholen-dork.
Impossible, given that you lied about the number of years I've been
posting to USENET.
> You're the GODDAMN STUPIDEST FUCKING IDIOT ON ALL OF USENET
How ironic.
> Compared to Tholen, the women of soc.feminism appear as bastions of
> reason.
Try comparing them to yourself.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Windows review
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 04:48:11 +0200
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
> >
> > Click to sort by type, click to select the first, shift-click to select
the
> > last, copy... oh, wait, did I create the folder? Nope. Damn. Create
> > folder. Hmm, let's check free space... yes, okay, lots of free space.
What
> > was I doing? Oh, yeah... right-click, paste.
> >
> > move *.txt ../newdir^C
> > mkdir ../newdir
> > free
> > move *.txt ../newdir
> >
> > Your way accomplishes the same thing... without the flexibility... at
the
> > expense of about 30 extra keystrokes, as opposed to about 6 mouse
clicks.
> > How is your way better?
>
> How many keystrokes equal a mouse click might be a reasonable question.
> For example, to move to the top of this window to save this message, I
have
> to drag the mouse up there, slow down as I approach the File menu, then
> click. A reasonable typist could type maybe 5 letters in that time.
> A fast typist might do 15. So you're example could equate the 6 mouse
clicks
> with up to 90 keystrokes. And more if you have to wait for
Windozzzzzzzzzz to
> look up the code that displays the menu, load it, then load the menu
itself.
Get a news reader that support keyboard shortcuts, saves a *lot* of time.
To save this message I do Ctrl+S
Or Alt+S>A to Save As
To send this message, Alt+S
I rarely *have* to use the mouse, sometimes it's more convient, but when I'm
on a typing mode, or don't feel like moving my hands from the keyboard, I
don't have to.
Barring graphical applications, I don't think that there are that many
things that I would need to mouse for.
Knowing all sorts of keyboards shortcuts can help to save you a lot of time.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:49:14 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>> Joe Malloy wrote:
>>>> Tholen tholes:
>>>>>> Silly me, I thought I was talking about text editors, not signs.
>>>>> Something wrong with a simple analogy to help illustrate a point?
>>>> Wattsamatta, Tholen, you don't like being called on the carpet for
>>>> an inappropriate "analogy"?
>>> No...what he objects to is the fact that ... Steve was right.
>> Right about what, allegedly?
> That you keep changing the subject whenever you're proven wrong.
Where have I allegedly changed the subject, and on which of those
subjects was I allegedly proven wrong?
>> There were several issues discussed,
> Of which, you have managed to take the wrong side...as always.
On which of those issues did I allegedly manage to take the wrong
side?
>> mostly diversions from the original issue, namely your ridiculous
>> claim that nothing about computers is intuitive.
> We've already demonstrated that keyboards, mice, power switches
> and power cords are non-intuitive.
Who are "we"? I'm really sorry that you need a manual to tell you
what to do with a power cord.
> What else do you need?
The truth from you.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:50:25 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>> Marty writes:
>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>>> Joe Malloy wrote:
>>>>> The Tholen tholes:
>>>>>>> I haven't seen any microwaves with an on/off button lately.
>>>>>> Okay then, "Start/Stop", if you must be pedantic.
>>>>> Whoa, this is the pot calling the kettle black! Pedantic to the
>>>>> point of silliness, Tholen now turns around and uses pedanticism as
>>>>> an attack. Great going, Tholen, you're really low on the
>>>>> consistency list now!
>>>> There's a reason why Tholen, in 12 years, has never budged from
>>>> the TOP of my list as "GODDAMN STUPIDEST FUCKING IDIOT ON USENET"
>>> Has he really been at it for TWELVE YEARS?!
>> Of course not, Marty. Aaron is simply another in a series of liars.
> Tholen is unwilling to admit that since 1988, he hasn't learned
> a damned thing.
Kulkis is unwilling to admit that I haven't been posting to USENET
since 1988.
Of course, you are free to try and prove otherwise, if you think
you can.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 02:51:52 GMT
Marty writes:
>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>>> Joe Malloy wrote:
>>>>> The Tholen tholes:
>>>>>>> I haven't seen any microwaves with an on/off button lately.
>>>>>> Okay then, "Start/Stop", if you must be pedantic.
>>>>> Whoa, this is the pot calling the kettle black! Pedantic to the
>>>>> point of silliness, Tholen now turns around and uses pedanticism as
>>>>> an attack. Great going, Tholen, you're really low on the
>>>>> consistency list now!
>>>> There's a reason why Tholen, in 12 years, has never budged from
>>>> the TOP of my list as "GODDAMN STUPIDEST FUCKING IDIOT ON USENET"
>>> Has he really been at it for TWELVE YEARS?!
>> Of course not, Marty. Aaron is simply another in a series of liars.
> I've seen nothing that leads me to agree with you.
And you've seen nothing that leads you to agree with Aaron.
Of course, if you can find a USENET posting from me that dates back
to 1988, feel free to repost it. I know you can't. I know Aaron
can't.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Windows review
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 04:55:50 +0200
"JM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 09 Dec 2000 21:15:29 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >> How many keystrokes equal a mouse click might be a reasonable question.
> >> For example, to move to the top of this window to save this message, I
> >have
> >> to drag the mouse up there, slow down as I approach the File menu, then
> >> click.
>
> >Or hit CTRL-S to save, ALT-S to send (particulars on the latter may vary
> >with your client). Two keystrokes.
>
> And such things are available for every command?
Yes, or there should be.
Marksman of a good GUI program, infact.
> >> A reasonable typist could type maybe 5 letters in that time.
> >> A fast typist might do 15.
> >
> >So, you're advocating typing 5 or 15 keystrokes or possibly even more to
> >accomplish what can be done in two. How is this an improvement? Oh, did
> >you forget that most GUIs have keyboard shortcuts for common tasks?
>
> But the key-strokes aren't graphical features, and most functions
> still require using the mouse, whereas CLI based programs always use
> quick key patterns.
No, they aren't, you can do practically everything via the keyboard.
And CLI isn't always better.
Frex, how do I move all the files above 10MB from directory A to directory B
using cli?
------------------------------
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