Linux-Advocacy Digest #777, Volume #34 Fri, 25 May 01 19:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Time to bitc__ again (Michael Marion)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! ("Chad Myers")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! ("Chad Myers")
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
Aaron paints himself into a corner. Re: aaron kulkis steals his brother ian
turdboy's crack pipe ("jet")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("~¿~")
Re: Time to bitc__ again (Sunil Patel)
Re: Warning to new users of Windows XP (Michael Marion)
Re: Back up in Linux (Roy)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux.mandrake,linux.redhat
Subject: Re: Time to bitc__ again
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:14:43 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Mandrake 7.2 was a disaster as far as I am concerned.
Hmm... it's worked great for me on several machines. Finally had reiserfs
support on install, and I could use my Rio500 with it. :) The rio support was
even better then windows in that it put cool fonts on the rio display.
> With Gnome I had Time bombs all over the place.
> Kde wouldn't shut down for me and would freeze up all the time. I
> ended up using Enlightenment because although it had bugs, it was
> really cool and different.
I've found gnome to be rock solid.. I've been using it under linux and solaris
(which I built myself) for over 1-1/2 years. Then again, I use sawfish
instead of enlightenment for the wm.
--
Mike Marion-Unix SysAdmin/Senior Engineer-Qualcomm-http://www.miguelito.org
I have a problem with my 95 machine.
It says "Insert disk 3" but only two will fit. What do I do now?
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:19:15 GMT
"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Daniel Johnson wrote:
[snip]
> > There was also a thing called "ProDOS 16" that
> > used the same filesystem, but had a 16-bit
> > implementation. GS applications typically
> > used that instead of ProDOS 8, because you
> > didn't have to set the segments up to look like
> > a //e to use it. More convinient that way.
> >
> > Aside from these implementaiton details,
> > the two were not very different, though.
>
> You did NOT answer the question...
> And suppose you tell me why the GS Desktop uses ProDOS 8.
There is no software called "the GS Desktop"
that I am aware of; the link you gave
showed the "Apple 2 Desktop", an 8-bit
file manager that looks very Mac like.
The Apple IIgs had system software
that was called, as I recall, "the Apple
IIgs system software" (imaginative,
eh?).
I don't understand what's so confusing
for you about all this. Nobody is
surprised that the the IIgs could run
8 bit software.
> Now this applies to the first couple of versions of the GS OS only. But
> the initial version of the OS, the one that shipped in 86... when you
> launched the desktop, you started ProDOS 8 anf THEN the desktop.
You are running an 8-bit program; it's a sort of
compatibility box. when you run a 16-bit
program you get ProDOS 16.
It's really very simple.
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:25:06 GMT
"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Daniel Johnson wrote:
[snip]
> > But the GS had 16 bit system software, complete
> > with a Mac-style Finder..
> >
> > This ran under ProDOS 16.
> >
> > [snip]
>
> The initial OS that shipped with the GS..
> Boot the system disk... "ProDOS loader" starts and the Launcher appears.
> Open the Desktop... ProDOS 8 starts, THEN the Apple II Desktop starts.
> That Apple II desktop was a ProDOS 8 application.
The Launcher was a 16-bit program; the reason
ProDOS 8 had to start was that you told it
to launch an 8-bit program.
Is this difficult somehow?
I know it isn't like modern OSes, where
the 'old' APIs thunk over to the new
ones (or vice-versa), but it did not have to
be like that- this isn't a multitasking OS.
They could just load the 8 or 16 bit code
at need, and get nearly perfect compatibility.
There would never be a time when both
would run simultaneously, so things like
buffer coherency simply do not come up.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:28:08 -0500
"Michael Marion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > You guys must be doing something magical. I've installed this box
> > twice now and both times Netscape has deteriorated to the point where
> > it won't work. Usually after 12-14 uses.
>
> Nothing magical... I've had this install of 4.75 in my homedir since
> 8/18/2000.
> I use it constantly for working on our web-based trouble ticket system,
> reading usenet, browsing the net, etc.. I use the shockwave flash plugin in it
> a lot too.. as well as realplayer and it's been fine. Absolutely no
> deterioration here.
>
> > No, I'm talking about Solaris! I had to install over 50 patches
> > which is what I meant by "practically reinstalling the OS".
>
> If you'd bother to keep up with patches you wouldn't have had to do that.
I just installed it 2 weeks ago or so! Give me a break! =)
> Of course, now you'll talk about how one shouldn't have to keep up with
> patches, yet you'll argue that someone's an idiot for not keeping up with MS'
> huge SPs and their hotfixes...
Spare me, asshole.
This isn't a production box (it can't be because nothing seems to run on
it!) so it's not a security hole.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 17:29:29 -0500
"Michael Marion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > What I meant about hosing my system is, it seemed like half of the
> > patches either didn't run or had errors or files were claimed by
> > other patches.
>
> I don't know what you're doing, but I've never had issues like that with
> patches. The only gripe I have about them is one thing you already mentioned:
> they don't know how to auto-install dependencies.
>
> The only time I've _ever_ had a problem with a patch was when I removed one
> without paying attention and accidentally uninstalled some important files..
> like libc.so.1. :( However, a simple boot off the network, mount of our
> jumpstart tree, and quick pkgadd of the 2 needed packages had me back up in
> less then 5 minutes.
I haven't had any problems manifest yet, I just got tons of errors during
the installation of the patches (what a pain in the ass that was -- having
to hit Y about 50,000 times). I haven't rebooted yet, so who know what'll
happen when I do.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:39:57 GMT
"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Daniel Johnson wrote:
> > Ah, I see where you've got lost. You think
> > a file manager is a GUI!
>
> Im not lost. The Apple II desktop is much more than "just" a file
> manager. It is true that * bit programs would not access the desktop.
Neither could 16 bit programs, if by "desktop" you
mean that software.
> However, you could launch programs from there. You could access Control
> Panels and Settings from there. And you could manage files from there.
> Just like from the Finder on a Mac.
Yes; it was just a file manager, just like
the Mac's Finder.
The control panel was not part of the
Finder. The IIgs supported desk
accessories in the same way that
the early Macintosh did, and like
the Mac, the control panel was one
of these. It could be made available
in any app that supported DAs.
But the Apple II desktop, like the Finder,
was not a GUI toolbox, like Macintosh
Toolbox- or its Apple IIgs equivalent.
Sure, *some* 'file managers'- like OS/2's WPS
or Window's Explorer- are just shells for
dynamic object plugins that provide the
file management- so they can be more like
APIs than file mangers, in a way.
But the Apple II desktop and the Finder
(either the Mac or IIgs versions) are not
like that.
They are just programs.
> > That program is just a file manager. It's cute,
> > but it's not at all the same as what I'm
> > talking about. There's no way for an
> > ordinary application to make use of those
> > controls you see there, for instance.
>
> Whats an "ordinary" application.
You know, your word processor or
spreadsheet or drawing program or whatever.
> And how do you think a "non-ordinary"
> would access the "controls" that are in the desktop?
I am not quite sure what you mean by
"non-ordinary"; the Apple II desktop
implements those controls as part of
itself; it does not need to "access"
them per se.
[snip]
> > Yes, yes. The gs would run this //e stuff
> > just fine. That wasn't a problem.
>
> Excepth that that is the desktop that the GS originally used.
Actually by your own account,
you used the Launcher.
But what was more common was to boot
directly into the program you were
to use, right off a floppy.
> > It could *also* run 16-bit software that
> > would take advantage of the gs' many
> > advantages over older IIs. This software
> > didn't use the 8-bit system software
> > or ProDOS 8.
>
> You have 0 credibility.
Really, I think you greatly underestimate
what the IIgs could do, even with the first
ROM revision.
> The orginal system disk had a "launcher", a file that identified itself
> as the 16 bit desktop, but wasnt,
It was just a launcher. Kinda cheezy, but it
only worked because the system software
*was* there under it.
> and the Apple II Desktop, which was an
> 8 bit application. It was the desktop, NOT just a file manager.
It was just a file manager.
> If you
> "opened" either desktop, ProDOS 8 loaded and ran the desktop. from there
> you had a GUI environment. 8 bit.
I am pretty certain that the Launcher used
ProDOS 16; it used the IIgs controls, so
using ProDOS 8 for that would have been
most inconvenient.
> If you opened a 16 bit app, ProDOS 16
> loaded and then the app loaded. When you quit, if the app was properly
> written, ProDOS 8 reloaded and started the Desktop again. If not, you
> were dumped back the the launcher. Same with 8 bit ProDOS app. If you
> opened an 8 bit app, the app started with out re-loading ProDOS 8.
>
> I know this because I just did it. I have a GS. I have the original
> system disk. I have 8 bit software and 16 bit software. I also have
> system 5 and 6, which are full 16 bit versions of GS OS.
>
> It will be interesting to see how you try to squirm out of this.
I don't understand what's so confusing to you;
nobody is suggesting that the Apple IIgs could
not run 8-bit software.
What exactly am I supposed to be swuirming
out of?
------------------------------
From: "jet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Aaron paints himself into a corner. Re: aaron kulkis steals his brother ian
turdboy's crack pipe
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 15:39:16 -0700
He loves to rag on me for being "old". So, I ask him what he will do when
his mail order bride turns 40. He never replies, he's painted himself into a
corner.
He can't say he'll trade her in for a newer model, because then he'll look
like even more of an asshole than he already does. He can't say he hopes she
dies before then, for the reason stated above. He can't say it will be no
big deal, because then he'll have to admit my age is no big deal.
LOL!
J
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> chrisv wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >When you're as smart as I am, there is no need.
> >
> > If you were so smart, you wouldn't be so afraid to admit that
> > sometimes you don't know.
>
> I have, many many times.
>
> However, not in a conversation with someone so ignorant as yourself.
>
>
> > The more educated a person gets, the more
> > he/she realizes that there' many thing they don't know.
>
> Yep. so...chris, hy don't you admit what you don't know
>
> > They are not
> > afraid to admit that they sometimes are wrong.
>
> when it happens, I admit
>
> it's just not very often that I am wrong
>
> hope that helps.
>
>
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
> can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "~¿~" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:45:22 GMT
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9el4oq$pgv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Your immaturity is impressing no one.
Neither were the ubiquitous and unverifiable assertions that you were unable
to backup with anything remotely resembling a fact. In other words, your
currency is worthless, your advocacy bankrupt.
You've now called three people immature _this week_ simply because you
either didn't agree with them, or they challenged your posted 'facts'.
The 'fact' that your only response was to attack, I believe, is clearly
illustrative of just who the immature one is.
I'm certanly not impressed, Matthew.
------------------------------
From: Sunil Patel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux.mandrake,linux.redhat
Subject: Re: Time to bitc__ again
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:40:14 +0000
This is not good, KDE and Gnome do not work like crap, they work fine
and as expected for new software, admittedly they are buggy, but then
again, this is Mandrake who intentionally put bleeding edge software in
their releases, and with a x.0 release - you're really asking for it,
this is what they are known for.
KDE IS usable (and very stylish), I'm using it now and I haven't had a
KDE crash or Xserver crash in a while (neither has my little sister who
also uses LM8.0). I think KDE have done very well - the step from KDE
1.x to 2.x is huge and brings the desktop miles forward.
On the kernel, I recompiled my 2.4.3 kernel for the first time a
fortnight ago, yes I had trouble with it (because it was the time I did
it), but following the instructions helped, I had howto's, documentation
from the Mandrake site, books and all sorts, the end result is a sleek,
mean configured kernel the way I want it.
I have a friend who uses Debian (you should see how easy it is to
upgrade the kernel on their system - an apt_get normally does the
trick!). Debian is slightly behind the times, this is because they take
great care in sorting out bugs and errors in the code so it takes a
while for new stuff to be put in the distribution, this is how how BSD
does it too, it's how the distro is, and if you don't like it, choose
another - that's why there are so many of them! It's the whole point!
Linux is slowly catching up on the desktop, but it will take time, it
starts with apps like KOffice, Gnumeric, Samba, Evolution, Nautilus, and
a whole raft of others, steadily improving, developing; it will reach
there...in time
Fully configured, easy to use desktop systems aren't written over
night...
just a /* comment */
Sunil
-->Linux Mandrake 8.0<--
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Warning to new users of Windows XP
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:05:13 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > This is shame! You have to _PAY_ them for beta testing their software !?!?
> > They should be paying you to put up with their garbage and do testing for
> them!
>
> Apple did the same, you know.
It amazes me that either company (let alone both) could convince people not
only to pay for a beta, but to almost feel honored to be allowed to do it.
Now _that's_ marketing. :/
--
Mike Marion-Unix SysAdmin/Senior Engineer-Qualcomm-http://www.miguelito.org
[Some of Roy's sure-fire personal ads]:
+French count with Hot Tub looking to make a little bouillabaisse.
+Texas oilman likes it crude!
-- Wings
------------------------------
From: Roy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.windows.x.kde,tw.bbs.comp.linux
Subject: Re: Back up in Linux
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 22:41:33 GMT
Jerry Wong wrote:
> I used to backup the windows by Ghost software. In linux, can the
> command "tar" be used like Ghost. I means to backup the whole Linux
> system by tar it and restore it when necessary. I have windows98 and
> two Linux system in my PC (Red Hat 7.0 and Mandrake 8.0), so I can tar
> one of them when running the other. Is it possible? Please give me
> some advice. Thanks.
You can never have too many crossposts ;)
(Just kidding, though some in the newsgroups do not appreciate cross
posting or posting in html format.)
There's a program for linux called Partimage, it's similar to Ghost in
that it creates an image of the partition that you want to backup and
then allows you to save it in compressed .tgz or .bz2 format. You can
create 2 partimage floppy disks, the first is a generic boot disk and
the other contains the partimage program, this allows you to run
partimage on any machine running linux.
http://partimage.sourceforge.net
http://home.tampabay.rr.com/jandr/Mandrake.htm
------------------------------
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