Linux-Advocacy Digest #899, Volume #30 Fri, 15 Dec 00 08:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux. (Terry Porter)
Re: System's analysis? What does this person do ? ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Unuther UNIX sight doun! ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Unuther UNIX sight doun! ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux. ("muppet")
Re: What if Linux wasn't free? ("Tom Wilson")
Re: What if Linux wasn't free? ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux. (Adam Hawton)
Re: Does anyone know..... (mlw)
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Johan Kullstam)
Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux. (Ken Klavonic)
Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:11:30 GMT
"Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:TMXZ5.15430$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> >
> > oops. I almost forgot another major contribution from IBM - Linux for
> S/390.
> >
>
> Don't you mean, Linux running a partition under OS390?
He means a distinct port of Linux that runs under their VM. And, according
to the article I read, it took a fair bit of work.
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
http://counter.li.org
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:13:12 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:91a8rt$9tk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:a3ZZ5.16358$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > It suprises me that all you OSS and GPL developers (the distinction
is
> > > > really lost on me) really like the fact that you are making large
> > > > corporations tons of money on the cuff. IBM, Sun, Corel et. al.
must
> be
> > > > laughing all the way to the bank. Will you please explain why you
> wish
> > to
> > > > give away the sweat of your brow?
> > >
> > > Well, these corporations are also giving a lot back to the open
source
> > > community. IBM has open sourced AFS and JFS, for example.
> > >
> > > Gary
> >
> > But didn't Sun promise worlds of support to the Linux community. Cross
> > platform Apps IIRC. They made Solaris run Linux stuff but aren't you
> still
> > waiting for the Solaris packages for Linux?
>
> Here is a thought, when Linux would be able to run Solaris applications,
you
> can get IE to Linux.
Ummmm, i'd rather take my chances with Mozilla :)
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
http://counter.li.org
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux.
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 15 Dec 2000 10:11:25 GMT
On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 00:50:11 GMT,
Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Here's another interesting - unsolvable thread.
>
>Name the THING you can do with Windows you
>CAN NOT do with Linux.
>
>Charlie
>
Have your system trashed by a virus, spread thru ones Windows system,
compliments of 'Outhouse Distress' ?
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 3 days 14 hours 29 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: System's analysis? What does this person do ?
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:19:50 GMT
"Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > peter wrote:
> >> How do you train to be a systems analysis?
> >
> > 4-year college degree in computer systems engineering, or
> > computer and electrical engineering.
>
> You also need some programming and software maintenance experience;
> without the first you tend to make laughable suggestions, and without
> the second you're nowhere near cynical or callous enough to do a
> decent job that doesn't come back to haunt you...
>
Well put.
No substituting experience.
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
http://counter.li.org
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.society.anarchy,talk.politics.misc,alt.christnet,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unuther UNIX sight doun!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:39:20 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:91covi$itr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:m6f_5.237$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "JM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:38:20 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > > ("Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >"Matthew S. Staben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >> On 13 Dec 2000 21:27:34 -0500, Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
SPAMMED
> > > >> :
> > > >>
> > > >> >ALL OF EFNET IS DOUN AS WE SPEEK! EFNET COOD HAVE RAN WINDOS BUT
> > > >NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAY HALF TO BE STOOPIT AND RUN UNIX BECAUSE THAY
> THINK IT
> > > >MORE STABAL1 BUT ITS NOT AND PROOVE IS THAT ITS ALL DOUN RITE NOW.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> So what if EFNET is down? It's a good thing to see a bunch of
queers
> > > >> hanging out in a world of words and emoticons, banished from their
> > > >> queer-to-queer closets.
> > > >
> > > >Is this a new protocol? QTQCP? Queer-to-queer closet protocol?
> > > >
> > > >What port does that run on?
> > >
> > > Port "o".
> > >
> > >
> > > (Note: that is a joke. It is funny. You must laugh.)
> >
> > A company in San Francisco bought the rights for DOS from Microsoft
> > last week. Apparently they prefer it there because they just can't
> > get enough of typing
> > "C colon ENTER"
>
> What do you mean bought the rights to DOS? You mean the source code and
> right to distribue it?
> Why on earth would they want it?
It's a *joke*, concerning anal sex...
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
http://counter.li.org
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.society.anarchy,talk.politics.misc,alt.christnet,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unuther UNIX sight doun!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:39:56 GMT
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:s44_5.2025$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:919tkl$ho4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > : ALL OF EFNET IS DOUN AS WE SPEEK! EFNET COOD HAVE RAN WINDOS BUT
> NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAY HALF TO BE STOOPIT AND RUN UNIX BECAUSE THAY THINK
IT
> MORE STABAL1 BUT ITS NOT AND PROOVE IS THAT ITS ALL DOUN RITE NOW.
> >
> > Learn how irc works, moron. EFNET is not a single site.
>
> What?
>
> You mean that EFNET doesn't run on the Internet server? You know,
> because the whole Internet runs on that one Internet Server.
You've taken that service call too, huh? :)
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
http://counter.li.org
------------------------------
From: "muppet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux.
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:42:54 -0000
> Just out of curiousity, what games do you play?
In the interests of starting a discussion:
Half-life opfor, Unreal Tournament and Creatures2 at the moment
Those and "get DVDs working on my Linux box", which is more of an adventure
game with clues scattered around the place, with the end result probably
being a slightly disappointing final scene.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What if Linux wasn't free?
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:52:13 GMT
"Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 01:00:05 GMT,
> kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >LOL, my uncle is the best example of a person who has two degrees, yet
> >he is socially impotent and lacking the logic to apply his skills to
> >every day work. Degrees aren't everything. If you don't have the skills
> >to apply the knowledge, the degree is as useless as the piece of paper
> >it is written on.
> >
> >kiwiunixman
> >
>
>
> And the same can be said of the Windows user.
>
> Despite the bullshit, Windows is making a systems administrator
> out of everyone these days.
They're supposedly making Win2K certification a bit more stringent... Time
will tell.
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
http://counter.li.org
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What if Linux wasn't free?
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:53:06 GMT
"kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> <snype>
>
>
> > One of the most respected computer professionals in the insurance
> > industry was a conductor of an orchestra.
> >
> > Charlie
> If my memory serves me correctly, didn't Einstein play the Violine?
He did.
--
Tom Wilson
Registered Linux User #194021
http://counter.li.org
------------------------------
From: Adam Hawton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux.
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:03:03 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi....
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> 1. I can't run my favourite GUI development tool on Linux, at least not
> yet.
>
Out of interest - what dev tool do you use? I must admit, I'm currently a
VB/SQL Server person myself - but I now use VMware (for Linux) to run all
my main Windows stuff, I only have to dual boot for a few programs (some
games that I occasionally - rarely - play, not often).
I hear that Kylix (Delphi for Linux) will be released soon, hopefully early
next year. Also, JBuilder (Java IDE) is already available from Borland.
Borland will probably also release C Builder in the near future.
The commercial development tools scene for Linux is certainly looking up. I
still want to try to learn C/C++, Perl, Python, (using GNU tools) etc as
well if I have time! I'd like to contibute some day to some open source
projects.
>
> 2. I can read News with KNode. Actually the best News reader I've seen
> so far. Kudos to the KDE 2 team.
>
Yes I find KNode to be excellent.
> 3. I can surf the web, although KDE's Konqueror is not that hot. I'm
> trying out Opera and Netscape 4.7 but, it seems this is better with
> Netscape 6 on Windows (yeah, I know, Netscape 6 is slower, buggy etc.)
>
Agreed - I do quite like Konqueror though. I'm also waiting to see how
Mozilla turns out next year as it approaches a 1.0 release.
> 4. I can access my file server now I'm running Linux on that as well,
> and Samba seems to work very well now. Sounds like I hit the right
> configuration and even Windows can use it.
>
I've got Samba to work quite well now - I can access files and printers of
my extra Win98 PC, plus my Windows "virtual" PC (in VMware). Also, I'm
trying to find out how to set up a Proxy Server (cache) in Linux, e.g.
Squid. Once I've done this, I'll also be able to use IE5 from Windows 9x/NT
in a VMware virtual machine! This'll be great - I'm now learning Web
development technologies (HTML/DHTML/XHTML/XML, ASP, JSP, PHP etc, plus
Java/JavaScript etc), and being able to test in all major web browsers (IE,
Netscape, Mozilla, Opera, Konqueror, ....) at the same time will be just
great!
I can recommend for those of you moving to Linux from Windows, who still
want to continue using your Windows skills (e.g. if you're a developer), to
look at one of the "virtual machine" technologies now available, e.g.
VMware (www.vmware.com), Win4Lin (www.netraverse.com), or plex86
(www.plex86.org). The first two are commercial products (and, as far as I
am aware, VMWare is the only one that can run WinNT/Win2K as well as
Win9x/ME, currently at least), and plex86 is free under GPL. VMware and
plex86 can also run Linux and possibly other OS's in VMs (virtual machines)
as well. These sort of things are great for Web development, Client/Server
development, etc - you don't have to give up the software you're used to,
and you get to use and learn Linux at the same time! Only some things (e.g.
3D games, software that uses hardware such as modems/scanners directly,
CD-R software) won't currently work within VMs, requiring dual boot.
Regards,
Adam.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does anyone know.....
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:48:56 -0500
"Marada C. Shradrakaii" wrote:
>
> >My guess is that this is an eclectic group, and perhaps someone would
> >know of a large public domain database which I can use for testing?
>
> Why not use a short programme to create a random database as desired? It could
> just be a loop containing things like "print out 3 < x < 20 chars for a first
> name, 5 < x < 15 for a surname, etc..."
I need to test lexical analysis code I am writing on some real world
data to test for valid relevance.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:25:20 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 08 Dec 2000 13:33:23 GMT, "Chad Myers"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted :
>
>>I don't think I've ever built and NT system that wasn't able to stay up
>>for several months AT THE LEAST regardless of load (because I would configure
>>it appropriately).
>
> What kind of systems when you say this? Production servers, print
> servers, workstations, development machines for engineers?
Don't be silly. These are his uptime servers. :-)
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:01:18 GMT
Tom Wilson writes:
> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>> I wrote:
>>> Steve Mading writes:
>>>>> My statement wasn't applied to "at the time". I'm talking about now.
>>>> You didn't say so.
>>> I shouldn't need to say so for those who understand context.
>>>> (See I can be a pendantic pain too. Your game is fun.)
>>> You're erroneously presupposing that I'm playing a game, Steve.
>> Tholen...
>> when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
>> remember to slit lengthwise.
> .....Along the femoral artery. It's quicker that way.
Desperate for attention, eh Tom?
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:27:08 GMT
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:36:45 GMT, Chad Myers wrote:
> > >
> > >"Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > >That's the technical definition of Liberal.
> > >
> > >Unfortunately today, it means, "One who seeks to divide", or "One who
> >
> > Laughable in the extreme ! Was it the liberals or the conservatives who
> > were pro-segregation ? Was it the liberals or conservatives who lead
> > the anti-communist witch-hunts of the 50s ?
>
> I said today.
>
> Note it was conservatives to strived to keep the Union together during
> the Civil War.
>
> It was also conservatives who fought slavery and who brought about the
> Emancipation Proclamation.
this is a weird idea of conservative. slavery was an old
institution. slaves were property. where are the rights of the
property owners? face it, lincoln was not conservative.
> Shall I begin detailing all the Liberal misdeeds in our modern times
> alone?
> > >wishes to make government so large that everyone becomes dependent upon it".
> >
> > Liberal implies moderate.
>
> Wrong. Liberal implies bending and stretching the rule of law and the
> foundations of this country (as seen recently in Al Gore's Election Debacle).
>
> Moderate implies moderate. Liberal implies eco-wacko, red commie (Jane
> Fonda, et al), baby killer (Barbara Boxer who believes that a baby isn't
> the Mother's until she's released from the hospital and a slipped-up
> partial-birth abortion in which the baby is fully delivered and then
> killed after birth is still legal), etc.
but it *is* still legal. you are free to disagree whether it *ought*
to be legal.
>
> > And the differences between the republicans and
> > democrats are not that great.
>
> Republicans and Democrats are not conservatives and liberals.
>
> There are conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans. I'm talking
> ideology, not party affiliation which are mostly different things.
which you seem to have gotten back-ass wards in the case of the civil war.
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: Ken Klavonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux.
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 07:40:24 -0500
kiwiunixman wrote:
>
> Just out of curiousity, what games do you play?
>
> kiwiunixman
>
> Ken Klavonic wrote:
>
> > Charlie Ebert wrote:
> >
> >> Here's another interesting - unsolvable thread.
> >>
> >> Name the THING you can do with Windows you
> >> CAN NOT do with Linux.
> >>
> >> Charlie
> >
> >
> > The only thing I use Windows at home for (work is, sadly, another story)
> > is to play games. I like Linux and all, but there are still lots of
> > games that simply aren't available on LX..
Age Of Empires II - MS may not have 'invented' the genre, but this one
is great fun.
Unreal Tournament - To be fair, I do have this working on my Linux box,
but the 3dfx drivers aren't quite what they should be on Linux. I've had
'em seize up, forcing me to telnet in from a different box to bounce the
machine (killing X isn't enough). Ugh.
Warcraft II BNE - Don't laugh. I play this one quite a lot online with
some friends, and although the AI is very dated, we still have a good
time with this one.
For a while I was very into Asheron's Call (MS's answer to EverQuest),
but that tended to be a big hole into which entire afternoons would
disappear.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux.
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:54:36 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Here's another interesting - unsolvable thread.
>
> Name the THING you can do with Windows you
> CAN NOT do with Linux.
Several things. And I'm not even an MS advocate, but I hate seeing
naive self-congratulation.
1. Games
Wine is getting there, and so is Loki, and there are some interesting
things being developed for free which you can get to from
www.linuxgames.com . However, with Quake3 not doing as well on the
retail level, and Quake3 being the Linux gaming flagship, that doesn't
bode well for the future of gamers. Loki is doing a great job
facilitating porting for programmers, though (or so rumour has it).
2. Other legacy apps
I swear to GOD, if there was a QuarkXPress for Linux, I'd buy it
TOMORROW. That said, I have to admit that I like the many great free
software options out there, and especially the ability to mess around
with some of the source code (Did you know some guy incorporated PHP,
Apache and MySQL into the Linux KERNEL?!? Apparently it's a smoking web
server. Try doing THAT with Windows). Looking forward to trying out
Oracle8i soon.
3. RAD development options
Or, at least, as many as there are for Windows. I'm making do with C
and GTK+, but I tell you, there's more learning materials for MS-based
RAD environments, and with more learning materials there's more
developers learning it, and with more developers you get more
applications, which promotes the OS even more, etc. Plenty of VB
classes in my city at the professional college level. Haven't found one
for GTK+/QT anywhere.
4. Reliable manipulation of MS file formats
Too many offices out there are entrenched in the MS way of doing
things. File formats are the key to the kingdom -- you get two people
reliably exchanging excel spreadsheets between a Linux and a Windows
machine, and you've really got a chance for something. Probably too big
a thing to ask, because of all the bloat that comes with an MSOffice
file, not to mention that some things might be better left
untranslatable (Word macros, etc.).
5. Hardware recognition & drivers
Getting way better, and thank god for NVidia (are they double-buffering
in XFree86 yet?). Still, it'd be nice to see everybody out there
jumping on the bandwagon. Which means more people need to buy games etc.
6. A standard install program
Sorry, but I still have to admit that I like putting in a CD and
hitting the Install button, and then going to grab a snack before
coming back to the finished job. And before anybody jumps on my ass
about how a catch-all installation program isn't good for flexibility
or your specific needs etc., YOU'RE ALL FOLLOWING THE SAME DAMN README
FILE!! There's no reason that in this wonderful open source world that
someone shouldn't pioneer a catch-all InstallShield type program, if
only as an extra option for the idiot like myself.
7. A good web browser
Mozilla's encouraging, but the world wanted it yesterday. Netscape 6
might have a decent shot in a later version, but this one was a bit
underwhelming.
8. Better all around documentation
This is getting to be less and less of a beef with every passing
quarter. Still, if I see one more typo in a Mandrake manual, gr...
9. Better publicity for KDE and GNome
Both of which are AWESOME. Somebody please give them a Superbowl ad.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
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