Linux-Advocacy Digest #3, Volume #31 Thu, 21 Dec 00 07:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: An Entire Day With Linux (Yukkkkk!!!) (Yatima)
Re: An Entire Day With Linux (Yukkkkk!!!) (Terry Porter)
Re: Since this is an Advocacy.... (Terry Porter)
Re: What's in a name? (Terry Porter)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("billh")
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("billh")
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source (Nick Condon)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (redc1c4)
Re: is this related to nfs? ("ID")
Re: Windows Stability ("Nik Simpson")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Yatima)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: An Entire Day With Linux (Yukkkkk!!!)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:56:18 GMT
On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 05:27:55 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> For lack of anything else to do I decided to go cold turkey and run
> Linux exclusively for one day and see how it measured up for general
> use.
For lack of anything better to do I decided to respond to this blatant
troll.
> I have Mandrake 7.2 already set up and running, as best as it can for
> Linux that is.
I'm running debian (Sid - the unstable branch).
> First off, this version of Linux is anything but stable and that is a
> fact. Here are a few bugs:
I'm running unstable in debian which, ironically, is the most stable
setup I've ever used.
> Open a terminal window under kde and that's the end of it. You can
> never open another one because it is hung.
Works for me using kde 2.1 beta
> You can open other programs and run them but when you try to logout of
> kde it is hung and it's kill the xserver time.
Nope. Not here. In fact it's a hell of a lot more stable and than win98
(prettier too :)
> Wheel mouse worked fine until I tried Gnome instead of kde and it (the
> wheel) never worked again after that. Re-installing via DrakConf
> didn't help.
No comment as I don't have a wheel mouse.
> Use the Fontmanager to find my Windows TT Fonts, which it does, but
> they never show up in any of the menues to be selected. SO where are
> they and how do I use them?
Mine work fine. Is your TrueType directory in your FontPath in
/etc/X11/XF86config? (or XF86config-4)
> Setting up an account in Gnome Dialer doesn't work. When you hit OK
> button after inputting all the data it just goes back to a blank, like
> when you started. Real nice applet that one is.
Sorry, wouldn't know as I'm using dhcp. When I did have a modem I used
a program called ezPPP which worked really well.
> Selecting "Help" in just about any program brings up that totally
> useless generic KDE help (How to move a mouse etc), or a message that
> help hasn't been written yet. Doesn't surprise me seeing as half of
> kde hasn't been written yet. It looks and acts like a toy and is very
> unstable.
Bringing up help here usually brings up something helpful here.
> Menues between the various window managers don't have the same
> selections in them.
I consider this a good thing as I can setup different working
environments.
> For example:DrakConf is missing from Enlightenment. So where did they
> go?
Beats me since I'm not using mandrake.
> Speaking of Enlightenment (pretty nice BTW), once you run it all of
> your menues in kde and Gnome get screwed up. Totally out to lunch
> unless you wish to rebuild all of your menus.
>
> Printing doesn't work with StarOffice and CUPS.
Printing works here in SO with or without CUPS (HP laserjet 5L and Epson
Stylus Photo 700).
> Trying to change the fonts under Gnome Terminal is an exercise in
> confusion. Couldn't they just have a selection "big, larger,huge like
> kde does instead of telling me every fsking detail about the font
> except what type it is (tty etc).
Yah, it's confusing for about, oh, 10 seconds or so.
> XFree 4.x kills the WheelMouse. Never works even with imwheel.
Sorry, don't have a wheelmouse.
> My Matrox G400 with 16 meg is identified as a 4 meg card. No way to
> change it because Linux insists it has 4 meg.
My Geforce256 32 Meg card always has the proper video ram detected
(XFree 3.3.6, XFree4.0, XFree4.0.1, XFree4.0.1-pre2RC4).
Of course you could always add "VideoRam 16384" under "Section "Device""
in your /etc/X11/XF86Config.
> Not to mention none of my USB devices work.
USB works fine here (2.4.0test7)
> Add to this that Netscape looks like crap no matter what font is
> chosen.
Odd. Looks fine here with my two favorite fonts: helvetica and verdana
(although I prefer Konqueror).
> StarOffice takes an eternity to load and doesn't import correctly from
> Word for Mac, which even Wordperfect for WIndows does fine.
Really odd. I use Word for Mac (as part of MS Office 98) at work and
it's never failed to import properly into Staroffice. or vice versa.
This includes tables, headers, and other formatting.
> MusicMatch Jukebox is a half assed, bloated (13meg) pig that runs like
> molasses under Wino.
I agree. I stopped using it after about 5min of pain. I like XMMS but
there is also freeamp, gqmpeg, apollo, grip, etc.
> Typical of Linux programs, it is a generation behind the Windows
> version.
It's a windows port running under wine. I prefer XMMS over anything in
windows. My mp3s never skip even when copying large directories ( >
1gig) or burning CDs or doing anything else.
> I did like knode though and that application has promise.
I do too but I prefer SLRN.
> DrakConf is pretty nice as well.
Wouldn't know as I haven't used Mandrake 7.2 (last version I used was
Mandrake 7.2beta)
> Konquerer doesn't manage certificates well and has an annoying pause
> in it every time you click on a link. The gears pause for a second
> before the thing starts going. Very annoying.
Haven't had this problem. In fact, Konqueror is speedier for me than IE
5.5. It also doesn't have the annoying habit of stealing window focus at
odd times.
> It is also much slower than IE 5.5 at loading pages from the sites I
> frequent.
Not here it's not.
> And on and on and on....
You have a really screwed up setup.
> Free or not, one has to wonder if anyone test's these things before
> they ship this garbage.
One has to wonder how many times you need to install linux to be able to
produce this many problems.
> So tell me again, why should I switch from Windows 2000 to Linux?
Don't.
> Why should anyone switch?
Because it's a very productive and efficient OS (depending on your
needs).
> Is there a compelling reason?
Too many to list.
> Surely just looking at the painful boxy fonts of Linux is enough to
> make one run back to Windows.
Fonts look great here (Samsung 900NF, 1280x1024 with GeForce256).
> The way I see it I would be taking a huge step backwards all for the
> joy of running Linux.
Then don't.
> Nothing much has changed in 2 years from a UI point of view.
Neither have your trolls Steve/Heather/Keys88/Swango/Flatfish etc.
You know, if you spent half as much time RTFM as you do trolling you
would be a linux guru by now instead of the perpetual newbie. Also,
instead of reinstalling linux distributions over and over again you may
want to consider tweaking your current setup. This would probably be a
lot more productive but would probably deprive you of tons of trolling
material.
--
yatima
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: An Entire Day With Linux (Yukkkkk!!!)
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 21 Dec 2000 09:10:10 GMT
On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 05:27:55 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>For lack of anything else to do I decided to go cold turkey and run
>Linux exclusively for one day
Gee a **Whole** day ????
I'm so impressed with our resident Wintroll :-
"Steve/Heather/Keys88/Claire_lynn/Amy/Swango/Swangoremovemee/flatfish++++"
Keep at it mate, perhaps some time soon, you might try Linux for 2 days in a
row?
ps. Who pays for your Distos, and for all the time it takes you to spew
forth all your FUD ?
>
>
>Flatfish
>Why do they call it a flatfish?
Cause a 4 ton Penguin stepped on it ?
>Remove the ++++ to reply.
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 3 days 15 hours 53 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Since this is an Advocacy....
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 21 Dec 2000 09:15:59 GMT
On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 04:16:27 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 22:27:09 -0500, "Colin R. Day"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:10:54 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>
>>> >. However, I may have a solution for you.
>>> >Do a CLI install, get up and running. Now, edit /etc/lilo.conf.Find the
>>> >global section. Should kinda look like this:# Start LILO global section boo
>>
>>And this is best evidence I have seen to not take Wintrolls seriously.
>>OOh, people might learn how their computers work. Now Uncle Billy
>>can't have that, can he?
>>
>>Colin Day
>
>I already know how it works.
Hahahah!!! Gasp splutter hack.......
Gees
"Steve/Heather/Keys88/Claire_lynn/Amy/Swango/Swangoremovemee/flatfish++++"
please be carefull man, i nearly sprayed coffee all over the pc!
>In fact I learned that way back in 1979
Snore....
>or so and it is old news. Now I concentrate on USING it instead of
>having to figure out how it works every time I add a new piece of
>hardware or software.
All youve demonstrated so far is that your prolific with a News Reader.
>
>Windows 2000 allows me that luxury and Linux doesn't.
So did win3.1, Win95, Win98, all versions youve owned or stolen.
Betcha can't wait for Whistler ???
>
>
>Flatfish
>Why do they call it a flatfish?
Because its thickness is directly proportional to its Linux knowledge ?
>Remove the ++++ to reply.
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 3 days 15 hours 53 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: What's in a name?
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 21 Dec 2000 09:17:20 GMT
On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:58:23 GMT, Black Dragon
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>On 20 Dec 2000 04:16:31 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> `Terry Porter' said:
>
>
>: "Steve/Heather/Keys88/Claire_lynn/Amy/Swango/Swangoremovemee/flatfish++++"
>: You mean ?
>: Have I left many names out ?
>
>
>uh huh. .
>
>some 31 of them:
>
>Steve/Mike/Heather/Simon/teknite/keymaster/keys88/Sewer Rat/
>S/Sponge/Sarek/piddy/McSwain/pickle_pete/Ishmeal_hafizi/
>Syphon/Proculous/Tiberious/Amy/Jerry_Butler/Wobbles/wazzoo/
>Tim Palmer/BklynBoy/susie_wong/leg log/bison/deadpenguin/
>clair_lynn/Swango/flatfish++++ _to be continued_
Hey thanks :))
>
>
>--
>Black Dragon
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 3 days 15 hours 53 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "billh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:48:03 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > > Typical liberal. Complains that nobody is fixing his problems for
him.
> >
> > And which of our nation's problems are you fixing, wannabe-war-hero?
>
> Tell us again you how believet that German, Japanes, North Korean,
> Japanese, Viet Cong, and North Vietnamese soldiers never fired at
> American medics.
You again demonstrate that you truly are obsessed.
------------------------------
From: "billh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:51:53 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis"
> > > Kulkis successfully fucked up us.military.army once, and Dave is
> > > afraid of repeat performance.
> >
> > The only thing you screwed, KuKu, was any respect you might receive from
> > true soldiers due to your constant "wannabe-war-hero" lies and your lack
of
> > general military knowledge. True soldiers have seen your kind before.
>
> Tell us again about your belief that German, Japanese, North Korean,
> Chinese, Viet Cong, and North Vietnamese combatants never fired at
> American medics....
There are doctors that treat for obsession as well as pathological lying.
Seek one, wannabe.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:06:01 GMT
"Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> It is normal for most, if not all developers, to use the tag "beta" for
> software that isn't ready for release but requires wide spread
> testing.
So Linux isn't "normal", because it doesn't use that tag. Big deal.
> Such software usually has the feature set frozen but the final debugging
> (hint) is not yet complete.
You're describing Linux 2.4.0-testXX, you know that?
> It isn't only a label, see above.
Yes it is. You're eager to criticise OSS software development that
doesn't use your labels, even if they obviously do have a phase where
the label applies.
> A rather utopian view, unfortunately the IS departments of most companies
> are cost centers whose main function in life isn't the advancement of some
> programmers zen
Yes. OSS's economical benfits are due to sharing, not due to an
inherently more efficient model. In other words, a team working with
economic limits - i.e. in a commercial setting - will probably be more
efficient than a team that does not. The downside is that its
efforts will be duplicated by others.
Free software is about good software. Commercial software is about
good enough software. And with uncritical customers, commercial
software tends to be shoddy.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: Nick Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:32:27 +0000
"Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
> > And "Freeware" != "Open Source". Many open source products are > available
> for sale.
> >
>
> So now the cost goes up for open sores.
LOL! Even a drowning man will clutch at straws.
> > > Additionally, the little
> > > extra I pay for quality software wouldn't be a months pay for a staff
> > > programmer.
> >
> > s/quality/closed/g. Paying for your software doesn't make it closed, and
> closing
> > the software doesn't make it quality.
> >
>
> I don't always buy closed software, I do buy professionally developed
> software not someones hobby.
Lots of open source software is professionally developed. e.g. The GNU C
Compiler was originally developed by Richard Stallman who is a professional
compiler writer. IBM now has a policy that all it's (professionally developed)
software is to be released as open source unless there is a compelling business
reason to close it.
In any case, "professionally developed" is an arbitrary label. I am a
professional software developer, but that just means I am paid to develop
software. What about the stuff I do on my own time? Is that professionally
developed, or just my hobby? Which do you think is done to higher standard, the
boring stuff my boss wants me to do, or the interesting stuff that I want to do
when I get home? I'll let you in on a little secret: the peer-reviewed
open-source code I see on Net is written to a higher average standard than the
wage-slave created stuff I see in the office.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Good software is good software -
Linux, *BSD, Apache, BIND, sendmail, Perl, Python, Bash, gzip, CVS, Emacs,
Fetchmail, GCC, Open SSH, Samba, Squid, WU-FTP.
------------------------------
From: redc1c4 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "delete the \".ies\""
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:57:30 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> billh wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> >
> > > Kulkis successfully fucked up us.military.army once, and Dave is
> > > afraid of repeat performance.
> >
> > The only thing you screwed, KuKu, was any respect you might receive from
> > true soldiers due to your constant "wannabe-war-hero" lies and your lack of
> > general military knowledge. True soldiers have seen your kind before.
>
> Tell us again about your belief that German, Japanese, North Korean,
> Chinese, Viet Cong, and North Vietnamese combatants never fired at
> American medics....
better yet, explain again how they could be singled out, when the casualty
figures don't support your claims?
put up, or shut up, "war hero".
redc1c4,
infantryman, medic
> --
> Erron R. Kulkis
> Eunuch Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey (REVOKED)
the DNRC won't have you, oh pointy haired one.
--
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We
ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed
you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that
ye were our countrymen."
Samuel Adams
------------------------------
From: "ID" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: is this related to nfs?
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:15:11 +0800
Hello,
ok, with help from one of you..(Nick Ruisi) i got the "nfs" up and
running..
it was just what i wanted, works perfect.. little glitches thou.
when i access this served-folder from pc(w98) through samba, it does not
allow long filenames(8+characters)
anyone know why?
regards
ismet
"ID" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:91pvdf$r4s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> hello,
>
> i have a web-server on a rh7-linux
> and i have a samba-fileserver also a rh7-linux
> they are on different machine, i want to allow the files
> on fileserver to be served through webserver
>
> i appreciate if anyone can tell me how to do..
>
> thank you all.
> ismet
>
>
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows Stability
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 07:02:04 -0500
"Gary Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <T5b06.333$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Nik Simpson"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and Linux all run fine on "bargain(sp?)
> > > basement parts". Are you saying Win2K can not? Are you saying you
need
> > > to pay a premium price for Win2K hardware to get stability?
> > >
> > I'm saying anybody in their right mind concerned about stability
regardless
> > of OS buys quality hardware. I'll bet money that all the high-uptime
> > commercial sites running LINUX are doing so on good quality hardware.
> >
>
> Why should they test drivers? That's the point of getting a tested OS.
It's
> not their job, it's the OS Distributer and the hardware makers job. They
> may and should test their own software to make sure it does exactly what
> they expect it to, but thats it.
>
Commercial vendors do test there configurations with the drivers they ship
which th epoint I was making. They do unit testing of motherboard, hardware
combination. If you just knock it together yourself from bargain basement
parts you are taking a risk that there will be some unexpected interaction
between the components. Another issue is heat and power requirements, using
some $100 chassis with 200W power supply then putting half a dozen 10K
Cheetahs in it is recipe for disaster. Commercial platforms have adequate
power & cooling for a maxed out configuration.
> >
> > > These reasons for getting stability are exactly why no self respecting
> > > admin should use Win2K.
> > > 1. "don't go loading any old piece of software, just the applications
> > > you need for the task at hand"
> > >
> > > Are you saying installing old applications can make Win2K
> > > unstable? Every Unix I've seen old applications either run or
> > > don't run, they don't make the computer unstable.
> >
> > No I'm saying that some applications and drivers have memory leaks etc
and
> > installing them on a production server that doesn't need them is bad
idea,
> > regardless of OS. Problems like memory leaks don't make an OS unstable,
but
> > they will make you reboot it from time to time, again, this is
regardless of
> > OS
>
> Memory Leaks. Goodness, never heard of those in Unix, what do they do?
If you've never seen a memory leak on a UNIX system then you've led a very
sheltered life.
> > > Are you saying that 3rd party manufactures don't actually test
thier
> > > own drivers and leaves that up to the customer to do? That can get
> > > pretty expensive.
> >
> > Damn straight I'm saying that. Part of the problem is the sheer number
of
> > possible permutations of hardware make it impossible for a vendor to
test
> > more than a small
> > subset of possible hardware combinations. Again, anybody running a
serious
> > system with concerns about uptime would be well advised not to load the
> > latest drivers just because they are available. If they solve a problem
that
> > you have and they are stable in your test environment go ahead,
otherwise
> > leave 'em alone. Again, this is not a OS specific peice of advice, ask
> > anybody in an IT shop where uptime and stability is a concern whether
they
> > automatically load drivers just for the hell of it!
> >
> > Unfortunately, many people running NT have no uderstanding of these sort
of
> > issues and just assume that if it's available they should load it.
> >
>
> Stability issues with drivers in Win2K result from the sheer number of
> them that run in the kernel. Using Linux as an example, no driver gets
> kernel mode unless its been TESTED in a BIG way. At worst a lousy driver
> should make that device not work. You work with a strage OS that has
> strange quirks.
A driver by definition runs in the kernel because it has to access raw
hardware. If you think LINUX drivers don't run in the kernel then you are
just plain ignorant.
>
>
>
> >
> >
>
> It goes back to the sheer number of drivers that can fuck the kernel.
> When drivers go down, they should not take the whole OS with it. Sorry to
> hear that Win2k has that problem. Maybe you should re-evaluate your OS
> choice.
> I suggest looking at the BSD's available.
>
I suggest you learn something about OS design and the function of device
driver before you make such ridiculous claims.
> > >Gee, I thought
> > > they made a stable OS. How can it be stable if "service packs"
> > > can cause a system instability?
> >
> > Service packs replace parts of the OS, of course they can cause
instability,
> > only a fool would think otherwise.
> >
> >
>
> Guess I was a fool for upgrading from Irix 5.3, 6.2 (depends on the
> machine) to 6.5 on all our machines and expecting it to work, just like it
> did. I guess I'm a fool for applying every patch the Linux kernel that
> comes out and expecting it to work, just like it does.
>
If you have to rely on those machines for serious uptimes then, yes you are
fool if you just install new OS without testing it first. Also comparing a
commercial UNIX platform on closed hardware platform to NT on an open
hardware platform is silly. Of course SGI has much better chance of testing
all possible hardware combinations because they make the OS and the
hardware.
>
> Go ask Red Hat and SGI what my credentals are.
Why not just tell us, or is that to much too ask.
--
Nik Simpson
------------------------------
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