Linux-Advocacy Digest #32, Volume #31 Sat, 23 Dec 00 14:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("JS/PL")
Re: New to Linux, and I am not satisfied. (Bob Hauck)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Linux lacks (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Since this is an Advocacy.... ("Martigan")
Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux. (Jacques Guy)
Re: Whistler review. ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Uptimes ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source ("Chad C. Mulligan")
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source (Gary Hallock)
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source ("Chad C. Mulligan")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:20:51 -0500
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> JS/PL wrote:
> >
> > "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Said Tom Wilson in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 04 Dec 2000 05:42:26
> > > [...]
> > > >Rush is loud, obnoxious, pompous, opinionated and , more often than
not,
> > > >absolutely right in what he says.
> > >
> > > Think harder.
> >
> > Looks like he hit's the mark here:
> > http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_122200/content/stack1.html
> > Sara Jessica Parker, reportedly worth 30 million is worried her family
may
> > suffer from cuts in government programs.
> >
> > And here:.
> >
> > http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_121800/content/stack2.html
> >
> > The Hilary/Newt double standard, seems to hit the nail on the head.
>
> Jesus, how long does it take his frickin' Web pages to load. It's
> more tedious than listening to the pompous bloviating windbag.
>
> Still waiting....
>
> So this is the hard-hitting, dead accurate analysis of Rush? A big
> expose into the mumblings of a movie star? And he can't find enough
> in her stupid comment, he has to warp and twist it and make it sound
> even more garish than it is.
>
> The man is a fucking idiot!
>
> The second link has a legitimate starting point... if I were Hillary, I
> would not accept /any/ money until the goddam book was finished. But
> then Rush goes off bragging about his own books. What a pompous,
> narcissistic, arrogant windbag, as if anyone would give a shit about
> his crap.
Number one on the New York Times bestseller list for 40 weeks is who gives a
shit about his crap.
"The Way Things Ought to Be was, at the time, the largest-selling nonfiction
hardcover book in American history short of the Bible. It sold two and a
half million copies. My second book came close. It was the
second-most-purchased hard cover nonfiction book in American history."
And he's making the point that the success of his book is financing the 8
million dollar FAILURE Hilary Clintons book (loss leader) will be. Everyone
knows it wont sell enough to even pay the 8 million.
>And then he essentially calls his own books fiction!!! Here
> it is!!!
>
> In the nonfiction world, the numbers I <<<
> racked up just don't happen. Look <<<
> at any number of books that have come
> out on the nonfiction side that
> have been heralded as tremendous sellers,
> and you'll see total sales run of 300,000.
>
> See, I TOLD YOU SO!!! Rush admits his work is essentially FICTION !!!!
Sounds to me like he's talking about "NON-FICTION" notice the *NON* above.
>
> Chris "learning the techniques of the Institute for Advanced Conservative
> Studies"
You see... you must actually READ IT before commenting on what it says.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: New to Linux, and I am not satisfied.
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:43:43 GMT
On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 02:19:49 -0500, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Said Bob Hauck in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:03:55
>GMT;
>>On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 02:41:11 -0500, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>Does anyone know of a good news provider? I think all the good ones
>>>(Deja, Supernews, etc) have all "gone web", and while they might offer
>>
>>I used to run a small ISP. We finally had to give up on doing Usenet
>>ourselves because it just became too much of a drain on resources. We
>>contracted with RemarQ (aka Supernews), and that worked out quite well.
>>You might suggest this to your "small town" ISP.
>... but I'm not going to pay out the wazoo for an overly
>commercialized service like 'RemarQ'.
RemarQ/Supernews offers an NNTP service to ISP's who want to outsource,
as opposed to the web-based thing they offer to the public. The ISP
sets up a name like "news.isp.com" which actually points to one of
RemarQ's servers, so customers still set up their newsreader the same
way as always. The ISP pays by the number of simultaneous users, which
in our case was under 5% of the actual number of users we had.
My experience was that they were pretty reliable and the rates they
charged were cheaper than the cost of the extra admin time, hardware,
and bandwidth to do Usenet ourselves. Usenet is one of those things
where there really are economies of scale.
So, I'm serious. If your ISP is relatively small (under 2000 users say,
especially under 1000) and they are having trouble keeping Usenet
working right, you might want to make a suggestion. That's one of the
advantages of using a smaller provider; you can make suggestions to
someone who might actually be in a position to implement them.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 03:33:36 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:34:34 -0500;
>
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> Yes, I'm afraid that the consumer might as well bend over and kiss their
>> ass goodbye; there's going to be no free markets left after four years
>> of Republican belly-aching about their right to avoid competing in a
>> free market. Growth by acquisition, predatory maneuvering, and customer
>> lock-in are the order of the day; competitive pricing and free
>> enterprise are a thing of the past. Assuming, of course, that "JS/PL's"
>> and Mr. Ashcroft's warped vision of reality impacts the real world
>> during this brief period in which the Republicans have managed to
>> supersede the will of the people.
>
>Bush wins 30 states
>Gore 21 states
>
>The democrats are just pissed off that more homeless couldn't be bussed to
>the voting booth with promisses of free cigarettes and wine.
>
>Bend over Max, your about to get a free dose of the peoples right to compete
>"IN the free market instead of IN the courtroom".
>Tee Hee :-)
It was the girlish giggle which really got me.
GUFFAW!
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux lacks
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 03:33:39 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 23 Dec 2000
>On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:29:07 -0500, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>>dBase IV was out years before Access was. There was a lengthy time
>>period, not unusual in real software markets, where the two versions
>>co-existed, because a competitive software developer has absolutely no
>>reason to cut off customers who want to maintain compatibility in order
>>to support those who want new features. Having used both, I can tell
>>you that there was no real difference, and dBase IV wasn't "awful"
>>outside of the worst hyperbole. It just wasn't dBase III, which many
>>customers were quite happy with. This was before there were any decent
>>RDBMS' for Windows. (Well, there still aren't, but that's a different
>>issue.)
>
>Are you kidding?
> dBase IV when it was first released was one of the buggiest piles of
>junk ever written. Customers were SCREAMING at Ashton Tate at the
>time. They tried to use a gui which was a mess and importing dBase III
>files was a mixed bag.
I'd hardly say Base IV used a GUI. Customers mostly didn't like the
'application builder', which is what you're referring to, because they
didn't understand it. It was more buggy than dBase III, but only about
as buggy as dBase III+; new versions of software do tend to have new
bugs. In the rush to FUD dBase to death, a lot was made of its
'bugginess', but it was not even really a particularly troublesome
product. Though this was in the days before Microsoft lowered
everyone's expectations of software so grievously, so there certainly
was plenty to complain about.
>dBase IV was the straw that eventually put Aston Tate at the bottom of
>the sea.
Microsoft is what put dBase at the bottom of the sea, along with
WordPerfect and Lotus 123, using FUD and churn and predatory development
and bundling with WinDOS.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Martigan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Since this is an Advocacy....
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 16:45:52 GMT
Well my wise friend since you are so harsh to come upon judgments...
No I'm not using a USB mouse and since you happen to be the master of
the obvious...if I knew what I was doing...why would I have this problem?
I know that I am not forced to use Linux, I just want to.
Sorry but were you just born into Linux Greatness? So you are the
one...the true Linux god, he whom has never had problems before.
Yeah call me what ever but don't get so judgmental about people pal.
"Vann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:L_L06.21$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <9D806.147962$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Martigan"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I have a Butchered Dell system, old PIII 450 with Geforce,
> > SoundBlaster.... I have installed Caldera 2.3 with the old Gfx card, no
> > prob. BUT with the GeForce the Xfree couldn't hack it, so I wanted to
> > install RH6.2, no luck. RH 6.2, RH 7.0, Mandrake 7.1, Mandrake 7.2, and
> > Caldera 2.3 give me the same stuff. At the Graphical install the
> > Keyboard and mouse lock up.
> >
> > What try the text install did that, no help. Actually booted Lvl3
> > logged on as root and booted X, still same keyboard and mouse problem.
> > Lots of headache this is. I'm willing to try every way...But it does
> > explain why Bill has made so much money off of people that don't want to
> > spend hours, days, even weeks trying to figure out a keyboard, mouse
> > problem.
> That's funny. My friend has an almost identical computer, with an even
> more recent video card, and his computer works fine. If you're trying to
> run X at higher resolutions, that would probably be one of the problems.
> XFree86 3.3.x doesn't like geforce cards, although 4.x has no problems
> with them. Also, try runnung xf86config from the command line to make
> sure your keyboard and mouse are setup properly. Considering I can
> compile from scratch my own distro ( I'm using it now ), and have no
> keyboard and mouse problems, I tend to think you are either using a USB
> mouse, or don't know what you're doing. If you don't like linux, don't
> use it. Nobody is making you.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 17:25:05 +0000
From: Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tell us Why you use Windows over Linux.
"." wrote:
>
> Philip Neves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> > Hey I've Installed linux from scratch and I use instant messaging does that
> > make me thick or lazy.
>
> No, but run-on sentences and absent commas do.
And what about quoting TWO screenful worth to add -- count 'em -- nine words
of wisdom and one comma?
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:23:03 GMT
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 22 Dec 2000 19:14:25 -0500, JS/PL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> [rearranged quotes to make sense]
>
> > Bob Hauck said:
>
> >> Chad Myers said:
>
> >> > I mainly use HP and Lexmark printers and I've never had a problem.
> >>
> >> I have. The 5si driver had a number of problems. It didn't crash the
> >> machine or anything, it would just sometimes refuse to print until you
> >> reinstalled it.
>
> > I don't seem to have a problem. I just installed Whisler 2276 and my
> > Brother HL-1240 was added automatically.
>
> So...you're using a completly different release of Windows and a
> completely different printer, and "it works for you". That's just so
> special, but it unfortunately has nothing to do with what Chad was
> claiming, which was that HP and Lexmark drivers don't have problems.
>
> He also claimed that printer drivers don't run in kernel mode, yet can
> "mess everything up", and you didn't address that either. So I guess I
> just don't see what your point is apart from "something nobody asked
> about works for me".
>
Sounds somewhat like your own "I doesn't work for me" doesn't it?
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| To Whom You Are Speaking
> -| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Uptimes
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:24:12 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Chad C. Mulligan in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu, 21 Dec 2000
> >"sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> [...]
> >> When chad actualy posts some documentation that supports any of his
> >> "opinions" I'll think about posting some evidance of his BS. Untill
> >> then:
> >>
> >> My opinion is that W2K is *NOT* stable. Evidance of this is at
> >>
> >> www.netcraft.com
> >> www.uptimes.org
> >
> >Still dancing with bogus numbers eh?
>
> They're perfectly valid, whether you understand them or not.
>
> >> What documentation has chad posted that supports his "opinion"?
> >
> >Many others have posted corroborating evidence that my opinions were, on
the
> >whole, more accurate than yours anyway.
>
> So others are clueless, too. That's not what is meant by "corroborating
> evidence".
>
I wouldn't exactly say that. Any Idea how Netcraft and Uptimes get around
the defautl limitation restricting enumeration of performance metrics to
Administrators?
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
>
> Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
> http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:26:31 GMT
"Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
>
> > "Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Also, the "Free" in Free Software doesn't primarily refer to
> > > > > money bu to sourcecode. Then you can do all the source auditing
> > > > > out want. Infact, one of the BSDs is geared specifically with
> > > > > that in mind.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > So you would pay for a freebie?
> > >
> > > Many people do just that. The Free Software Foundation has been
selling
> > > free-software compilations for nearly 20 years. If you speak French
think
> > > "libre" rather than "gratis". In English think "free country", not
"free
> > > lunch".
> > >
> >
> > So much for lower up front costs. There goes TCO even further up for
Linux.
>
> Think quantity, not units of one.
>
Working for a company that supports many single server installations, units
of one are significant. Or are you saying it takes a quantity of Linux to
equal a single NT system?
> Gary
>
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:27:58 GMT
JS/PL wrote:
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >And then he essentially calls his own books fiction!!! Here
> > it is!!!
> >
> > In the nonfiction world, the numbers I <<<
> > racked up just don't happen. Look <<<
> > at any number of books that have come
> > out on the nonfiction side that
> > have been heralded as tremendous sellers,
> > and you'll see total sales run of 300,000.
> >
> > See, I TOLD YOU SO!!! Rush admits his work is essentially FICTION !!!!
>
> Sounds to me like he's talking about "NON-FICTION" notice the *NON* above.
> >
> > Chris "learning the techniques of the Institute for Advanced Conservative
> > Studies"
>
> You see... you must actually READ IT before commenting on what it says.
And my point went clean over your head!!! I used the very same technique
as Rush -- take a source, clip out the parts I don't like, and quote
the rest, to make only the point I want to make, and to make everyone
else out to be stupid, bungling, or evil. That is a bona fide
technique of that lying shithead, Rush Limbaugh. Except in this case
you can get to the link to get the right information.
As far as his bilious claim that his book is the best-selling non-fiction
book aside from the Bible, take a look at this list of the "best sellers
of all time":
http://www.adventur.com/reading/top10.htm
The Holy Bible is indeed first. Second comes "Quotes from Chairman
Mao Tsetung". Third is the "American Spelling Book" by Noah Webster.
Benjamin Spock and the World Almanac appear. RUSH DOES NOT APPEAR IN
THIS LIST. He is a lying son-of-a-bitch!
For more proof, you need to get educated. A good place to start is
"Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot" by Al Franken, a hard-hitting
expose of one of the most cheese-brained entertainers of our time.
I wonder what stories that poor fat-headed bastard is going to have to
concoct now that George Dubya is President. Oh yeah, Hillary in the
Senate. I think Rush is deeply attracted and deeply repelled by
her.
Chris
The stupid URL's of Rush Limbaugh cited in an earlier post:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_122200/content/stack1.html
Sara Jessica Parker, reportedly worth 30 million is worried her family may
suffer from cuts in government programs.
And here:.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_121800/content/stack2.html
The Hilary/Newt double standard, seems to hit the nail on the head.
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:29:28 GMT
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:FFW06.51210$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:R5V06.21698$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > If I pay for it it is a product. Production releases of software aren't
> > services they are product. Beta isn't production releases. Ergo no
> > product.
>
> You mean it should work when you get it and not need any service
> packs or upgrades to do what it was supposed to have done
> right in the first place? There seems to be a real shortage
> of software like that...
>
Not necessarily but the assurance that the service packs etc., will be
forthcoming would be nice. A two year old package should have more than
beta level replacement options.
> > Enough half rabbits.
> >
> > > Much of your misunderstanding comes from an inability to understand
that
> > > fundamental difference.
> > >
> >
> > It isn't my misunderstanding but your apologizing for open sores
> weaknesses
> > that are at issue here.
> >
>
> I think you are the one who misunderstands. I have Linux servers running
> the first and only copy I loaded on them over a year ago. One has never
> been shut down - several others have only been down to relocate or
> change their power connections. None of the Microsoft servers have
> done as well. Everything prior to NT with sp6a has crashed, everything
> newer has been down at least to install the necessary fixes. So much
> for 'production releases'.
>
Thanks for making my point, no progress.... BTW I had a group of NT Sp4
Servers with 400 days uptime what problems are you having.
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:30:29 GMT
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:cIW06.51211$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:DkV06.21746$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > I don't know exactly why this is, but I think one reason
> > > is that when you've plunked down $30-$100 for some piece of software,
> > > you have much more interest in seeing it work. You work around minor
> > > problems. When you've spent no money for it, you have less of an
> > > attachment. You run into a minor problem, you bitch about it, or you
> > > even go so far as to uninstall the program and go find another.
> > >
> >
> > Not really talking about silly utilities. Big ticket items are more
> > carefully considered, evaluated and tested for the most part.
>
> Then how do you explain all of the problems that it took all of the
> service packs up through sp6a to fix being accepted by customers
> all that time?
>
Or the many patches released by Sun (ask eBay about them) BTW we were
talking about applications not OS's.
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:30:50 -0500
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
"Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
>
>
> Working for a company that supports many single server installations, units
> of one are significant. Or are you saying it takes a quantity of Linux to
> equal a single NT system?
And, how do you consider "many" to be units of one? You buy one copy and use
it in all of your single server installations.
Gary
------------------------------
From: "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 18:34:13 GMT
"Shane Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> "Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
> >
> > "Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Also, the "Free" in Free Software doesn't primarily refer to
> > > > > money bu to sourcecode. Then you can do all the source auditing
> > > > > out want. Infact, one of the BSDs is geared specifically with
> > > > > that in mind.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > So you would pay for a freebie?
> > >
> > > Many people do just that. The Free Software Foundation has been
selling
> > > free-software compilations for nearly 20 years. If you speak French
think
> > > "libre" rather than "gratis". In English think "free country", not
"free
> > > lunch".
> > >
> >
> > So much for lower up front costs. There goes TCO even further up for
Linux.
>
>
> I'm going to call you (and other TCO claimants) on this one, Chad!
>
> I keep seeing lots of claims from assorted quarters that System X has
> much lower TCO than System Y (where X and Y are arbitrary OSen, and
> are often reversed) but the hard data never seem to surface.
>
> Please don't use MS's NT vs Linux pages as a reference - they were
> derived from *old* NT vs SPARC/Solaris figures, then Linux was
> substitied for Solaris.
> http://www.microsoft.com/NTServer/nts/exec/Compares/LowerTCO.asp
>
Why not they are perfectly valid. And with the rising up front costs of
Linux the TCO get's worse and worse. The extras include needing to fix a
compiler before you can include the network stack into your recompiled
Kernel to improve performance. IAC that old study predates the inclusion of
WBEM into NT so the UNIX is being given an extra bonus. When does that come
to Linux?
> I have my own TCO figures from client sites, so I have a pretty good
> feel for ongoing support requirements of comparable systems for a
> range of user types and functionality. TCO is like any other type
> of statistic or benchmark. It can be fiddled to give the results
> you want. BTW, lost user productivity of downtime rarely seems to appear
> in published TCO figures.
>
>
> FWIW, the bulk of real world TCO is in the ongoing support, and
> depends very heavily on stability, ease of installation and ease of
> remote management as it scales beyond trivial numbers of users,
> boxen and sites.
And Windows 2K really advances that significantly. You should read up on
WBEM and look into Windows remote installation services.
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