Linux-Advocacy Digest #104, Volume #31 Thu, 28 Dec 00 19:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does) ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Why Advocacy? ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Advocacy: A Definition from Webster (Form@C)
Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does) ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Linux Courses ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: What's the sed line mean? (Jason)
Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does) ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Please don't laugh. (Form@C)
Re: open source is getting worst with time. ("Les Mikesell")
Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does) ("Les Mikesell")
Re: My experiance with win98 and SCSI vs Linux (genkai wa doko da)
Re: Windows Stability (Bob Hauck)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:07:16 GMT
I was orignially speaking that it should. Why can't Linuxconf have XFree86
extentions in it? Why CAN'T You configure XFree86, GNOME and KDE through
Linuxconf?
Because IT WOULD MAKE SENSE. That's why.
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:duB26.52427$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Les Mikesell wrote:
> > >
> > > "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Kyle Jacobs wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Five years.
> > > > >
> > > > > And I still see the horrible RedHat Linux "Control Panel" is still
> > > > > lingering.
> > > > >
> > > > > Although there are some advantages to the Control Panel, Linuxconf
> has
> > > > > pretty much overridden it in functionality and features, making
the
> > > Control
> > > > > Panel items useless.
> > > >
> > > > I use them a lot. Linuxconf doesn't let you control the
> > > >
> > > > background
> > > > panel
> > > > screensaver
> > > > theme selector
> > > > window manager
> > > > MIME types
> > > > URL handlers
> > > > Window manager behavior (and its 11 items)
> > > > User interface.
> > > >
> > > > Do you really /use/ Linux?
> > >
> > > 'Window manager' behavior? Which window manager? Are you
> recommending
> > > forcing everyone to use a single window manager or teaching Linuxconf
to
> > > configure all possible window managers? Do you really have a hard
time
> > > finding the place to control these in KDE or GNOME?
> >
> > Not sure what your beef is here. I have no trouble controlling
anything.
> > I was merely retorting to the statement above that linuxconf has
> > made the Control Panel items useless. Makes no sense to me.
> >
> > In my control panel, sawfish has apparently inserted some
> > configuration menus.
> >
> > Man, people go out of their way to hassle you here!
>
> What you said just didn't make any sense. I think you have confused
> the 'RedHat Control Panel' with the KDE control panel which is
> an entirely different beast. The RedHat Control Panel dates back
> to version 4.0 or so and controls the network setup, printers, and
> a few other things that are now handled by Linuxconf. It has nothing
> to do with any window manager.
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Advocacy?
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:12:50 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:d_D26.109220$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
> > Learning "S for Start/K for Kill + sequence number" is sooooo difficult.
> >
> > Maybe we should get you a Talking Barbie.
> >
> > "Math class is too hard!"
>
> Still having trouble with your signal to noise ratio I see.
>
> S and K are easy. But, what about the sequence number? What should it be?
> 00 or 99? How can I tell? Which one should run before another? Oh, so I go
> look it up in the manual, it really is that obvious!
If you are the one administering the machine, it is your choice which
runs and in which order. How could anyone else possibly know
what or how many things you want started? The scripts do have a built
in hint that is used by the normal tools (chkconfig being the starting
point for these...) and normally you don't have to know much about
them. But, you aren't forced to use the normal tools. ln -s isn't
hard to type and you might want to re-order things on your machine.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Advocacy: A Definition from Webster
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Form@C)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:12:49 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
<Z9O26.4333$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
<snip>>
>It's *FOR* yelling at each other about the OS's in question.
>
<snip>
YEAH! Right on!
It would be very boring if this group was filled with nothing but nice,
polite posts which merely listed possible new applications for Linux. This
is what its name would suggest... The arguments are useful. They make
people think about their choice of OS. Some of us even believe that Linux
is *not* the best OS for every purpose!
<damn, I've gone & done it again. Here come the flames!>
--
Mick
Olde Nascom Computers - http://www.mixtel.co.uk
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:08:39 GMT
All GNOME Control Panel's feature a Window manager configuration system,
because GNOME supports multiple WM's.
This makes sense.
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Les Mikesell wrote:
> >
> >
> > What you said just didn't make any sense. I think you have confused
> > the 'RedHat Control Panel' with the KDE control panel which is
> > an entirely different beast. The RedHat Control Panel dates back
> > to version 4.0 or so and controls the network setup, printers, and
> > a few other things that are now handled by Linuxconf. It has nothing
> > to do with any window manager.
>
> I'm actually talking about the Gnome Configuration Tool, also called
> the Gnome Control Center. In my incarnation of it, I see a section
> devoted to the sawfish window manager. A plug-in?
>
> I haven't use KDE for awhile, so don't count on me knowing diddly
> about it!
>
> Chris <grin>
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Courses
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:21:09 -0500
Simon Mc wrote:
>
> We have just added a load of free Linux courses to the site.
>
> --
> For Information on computer networking and certification..Visit your IT home
> on the net www.theitweb.com
Home page is fucked up.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Jason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.shell
Subject: Re: What's the sed line mean?
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:21:57 -0600
> > sed '/\n/!G;s/\(.\)\(.*\n\)/&\2\1/;//D;s/.//' srcfile > dstfile
> > I know the effect of the line is to reverse each line of the
> > srcfile and to put the result to dstfile.But I can't understand
> > why it is written in such way.
Ok, I'll give it a stab...
sed will read a line of the input file, srcfile, into the
pattern space in the process discarding
the newline character at the end. The first part /\n/!G
will append the contents of the hold space onto the pattern
space for any line which doesn't contain a newline. Since
on the first pass, the pattern space will not contain a
newline, the hold space ( a newline ) is appended.
The second part matches a string of one or more characters
followed by a newline. For this matched string it then
substitutes the contents of the matched string, followed by
the portion which matched the second bracketed reg. exp., followed
by the part that matched the first bracketed reg. exp. [ a
bracketed regular expression is one enclosed in \( and \) ].
The //D indicates that for the pattern space that matched the
previous search expression, delete the portion through the
first newline and start the next cycle (hint: this is the
recursive part).
The s/.// part replaces the first string with nothing.
Here's some examples:
for a blank line, the pattern space is empty (sed excludes the
newline at the end of a line). Since it does not contain a
newline, the hold space ( a newline ) is appended. The next
pattern is not matched so the next two expressions are skipped.
The first string (the newline) is deleted and the contents of
the pattern space (empty) are written with a newline appended.
(let's use a more interesting string)
for a line containing 'abcd' the following happens
Sed reads it in and the pattern space is
[abcd] /* I'm going to use brackets to denote the pattern space */
It does not contain a newline so the hold space is appended leaving
[abcd\n]
The 'a' matches the first part of the reg. exp. and the 'bcd\n' matches
the second part. Applying the substitution (including the &)
[abcd\nbcd\na]
This pattern space is still matched for the // reg. exp. so we apply the
D (delete through the first newline).
[bcd\na]
Now because the D says to start the next cycle, we go back to the
beginning with the current pattern space. It contains a newline,
so the hold space is not appended, and we move to the next
part. The 'b' matches the first part and the 'cd\n' the second leaving
[bcd\ncd\nba]
Apply the D again
[cd\nba]
Contains a newline, so move to the second part with 'c' and 'd\n'
matching
[cd\nd\ncba]
Apply the D
[d\ncba]
First doesn't apply, 'd' and '\n' match so
[d\n\ndcba]
Apply D
[\ndcba]
First part will not apply, second has no match thus it and the third
are skipped, apply s/.//
[dcba]
copy to stdout
Other strings are left as an exercise to the reader.
That's the how (to the best of my knowledge), as for why....
'cause it works.
--
Jason
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:25:57 GMT
"Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:92g2d2$ql6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Les Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> : What you said just didn't make any sense. I think you have confused
> : the 'RedHat Control Panel' with the KDE control panel which is
> : an entirely different beast. The RedHat Control Panel dates back
> : to version 4.0 or so and controls the network setup, printers, and
> : a few other things that are now handled by Linuxconf. It has nothing
> : to do with any window manager.
>
> As a side question: Does linuxconf have as nice print config
> tool as the old redhat "control panel" printer config tool yet?
> I still use the old redhat printer configurator because it has
> those great options for "two pages on one", "four pages on one" and
> so on. These seem to be driven my some redhat-specific filter scripts
> an I haven't found any other GUI tool that gives access to them.
I don't think so, but I avoid linuxconf in general because it is sort
of an 'all or nothing' choice. If you make any changes in linuxconf
it will try to 'fix' everything else that doesn't match it's idea of
how things should look. For example I set up a system so it
ran sendmail as a non-root user, then tried to have someone
else manage the users with linuxconf. Until I patched up the
scripts it kept changing the mail files back to root ownership
and breaking everything whenever it was run.
I agree that the old redhat printer tool was nice - it always
got the filtering right and hooked up smb-shared printers as
easily as anything else.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:26:32 -0500
Tom Hall wrote:
>
> If I may chime in here:
>
> The funniest part of the whole election is, if the democrats weren't so
> fucking stupid, their candidate would have won.
> Gore HAD THE VOTES! Yet the people voting were to dense to make their vote
> known by following simple instructions at the booth.
No...he didn't.
A lot of blacks voted for Buchanan because he had a black running mate.
Of course, the press doesn't want to talk about that, because that
ruins their "Buchanan is a racist" line of propaganda.
>
> It's the SWEEEETEST victory possible for a hard core republican like myself.
I'm a Libertarian...and ANYTHING that makes Demoncrooks mad makes me happy.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 18:28:20 -0500
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
> Tom Hall wrote:
> >
> > If I may chime in here:
> >
> > The funniest part of the whole election is, if the democrats weren't so
> > fucking stupid, their candidate would have won.
> > Gore HAD THE VOTES! Yet the people voting were to dense to make their vote
> > known by following simple instructions at the booth.
> >
> > It's the SWEEEETEST victory possible for a hard core republican like myself.
>
> Most people don't know much about probability and statistics.
> Not to mention psychophysics.
Psychophysics? Where DO they offer that course of study?
MIT?
Berkely?
The Psychic Friends Network?
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Please don't laugh.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Form@C)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:30:58 GMT
Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
<snip>
>What gets forgotten in the headlong rush for Gigahertz machines with
>128Mb ram, etc, is that nine or ten years ago we had Windows 3.0 and 3.1
>which worked tolerably well in the context of what was available at that
>time, and all done on a 386 or 486 with 4Mb ram and 170 Mb hdd. Is the
>average office worker more productive today with the hundredfold
>increase in computing power at their disposal?
a few weeks ago I scrapped our original CAD station at work. When we got it
it was, more or less, state of the art. Dual monitors & all!
12MHz 286 (badged by Mission - full size AT desktop case)
2MB ram (all in individual chips on the motherboard)
40MB 5 1/4" hard disk (with full-size control card - no IDE then)
5 1/4" floppy disk drive
hercules display card & monitor (12" mono of course)
specialised 1MB graphics card (sorry, can't remember the type)
800x600 maximum resolution
14" colour monitor (NEC Multisync 2)
AutoCAD 9 (new out then)
A3 digitiser with 4-button puck (a bit like a mouse for the uninitiated)
A3 pen plotter (incredibly slow...)
We used this for *ages* for CAD, word processing, spreadsheets etc. All
without any form of GUI, just text menus & batch files. I'm not sure that
the latest systems are all that much faster really. Inkjet is a hell of a
lot faster than the pen plotter though!
IIRC we eventually upgraded the RAM to 4MB, the video to SVGA (2MB on card)
and added a 3 1/2" disk drive. That was it until it landed in the skip...
--
Mick
Olde Nascom Computers - http://www.mixtel.co.uk
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: open source is getting worst with time.
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:33:08 GMT
"Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:92fa5r$4gg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Very easy.
> >
> > You can't install 99% of the Windows programs using a command line
> > because they require GDI interaction.
> >
> You can install just about all of the Microsoft apps/server apps from
> the command line with an answer or ini file. If other vendors choose
> not to make the command line option available, that's their problem.
> The mechanisms are there, just that many don't use them...
Try installing a package via telnet this way some time and see how it
works to answer questions you can't see.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:36:16 GMT
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Les Mikesell wrote:
> >
> >
> > What you said just didn't make any sense. I think you have confused
> > the 'RedHat Control Panel' with the KDE control panel which is
> > an entirely different beast. The RedHat Control Panel dates back
> > to version 4.0 or so and controls the network setup, printers, and
> > a few other things that are now handled by Linuxconf. It has nothing
> > to do with any window manager.
>
> I'm actually talking about the Gnome Configuration Tool, also called
> the Gnome Control Center. In my incarnation of it, I see a section
> devoted to the sawfish window manager. A plug-in?
>
> I haven't use KDE for awhile, so don't count on me knowing diddly
> about it!
KDE has something similar, but neither has any relationship to the
old RedHat control-panel.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: genkai wa doko da <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: My experiance with win98 and SCSI vs Linux
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:33:24 GMT
In article <3a49d663$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
matt newell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Insead of complianing about these cards not working in windows, why
don't you
> head on over to microsoft, get the source, and fix the problem. Oh
wait, you
> can only do that with linux(or any other open software:).
>
hey you are forgetting someone(s) did just that in recent months, they
went right to microsoft.com and got the sourcecode.
We can all wait for better driver support now.
> Seriously though, It is amazing to me how good of a job the kernel
developers
> are doing. There are very few components that aren't supported, and
most that
> don't work are the cheap pieces of crap.
>
hey my cheap pieces of crap work fine.
> Matt Newell
>
--
RCS/RI, Retro Computing Society: http://www.osfn.org/rcs/
RIFUG, RI Free Unix Group: http://www.rifug.org/
Dropdead, my band: http://www.dropdead.org/
my videogame stuff: http://www.gloom.org/~gauze/
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Windows Stability
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:44:57 GMT
On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:37:51 GMT, Kelsey Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Let me ask you a question: who cares if Linux runs in 4Mb of memory?
One answer: embedded systems developers. Maybe that's why Linux is
proving quite popular for this purpose?
> Memory is so cheap that worrying about dropping an extra couple megs
> into the box is silly
But board space and power aren't cheap, especially in portable
battery-powered equipment.
> There was a time when worrying about memory consumption was an issue.
And for some applications, it still is.
BTW, as I mentioned to Eric in another post, the prices quoted for
memory don't tell the whole story either. The cheap memory doesn't work
in machines that are more than a couple of years old. Therefore, you
end up spending a lot more to upgrade or replace those than the low
price of a 64MB SDRAM stick might indicate. Not everybody (or every
company) replaces all their PC's every 18 months.
Even people who have slightly older PC's that run NT fine may not meet
the recommended minimum for W2K. Upgrading from that position can
easily cost a lot more than the $80 for memory and $300 for W2K.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
