Linux-Advocacy Digest #112, Volume #31 Fri, 29 Dec 00 04:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Who LOVES Linux again? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux, it is great. ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Linux, it is great. ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Linux, it is great. ("Tom Wilson")
Re: PPP over serial line (w/ Win98 and Linux) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Microsoft tentacles squirm deeper into software hosting ("fmc")
Re: maximal mounts (Ralph Miguel Hansen)
Call for Papers: LCTES 2001 (ACM SIGPLAN Workshop) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux, it is great. ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Linux, it is great. ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: VB job offer, and ensuing dilemma ("Tom Wilson")
Re: VB job offer, and ensuing dilemma ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Please don't laugh. (Ralph Miguel Hansen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Who LOVES Linux again?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:29:08 -0500
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:t9S26.52469$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:92fhsp$vie$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > And for all you windows users out there, it took me less time to
> install
> > > > the linux nvidia drivers than the windows ones since I didn't have to
> > > > reboot :)
> > >
> > > That's good. But you know, I'll take the 30 seconds it takes to reboot
> the
> > > winbox after a driver install over the 20 seconds it takes everytime I
> > > launch Netscape to get a url box.
> >
> > I just leave my Netscape running for months. Why shut it down at all?
>
> Because it craves memory like there is no tomorrow?
That's what SWAP SPACE is for, you moron. Inactive processes get
swapped out as needed, so it's a NON-ISSUE.
Hope that helps, oh pea-brained one.
> Because it's reknown for its ability to crush for the slightest offence?
> Because it's one of those applications that can lock the computer tighter
> than a fly's ass?
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, it is great.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 07:42:15 GMT
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Adam Warner wrote:
> >
> > Hi mlw,
> >
> > > PostgreSQL, a full relational, enterprise ready SQL database.
> > > Star Office, a full featured office packages.
> > > Full TCP/IP networking support.
> > > Apache, a world class web server.
> > > PHP, a world class web scripting language.
> > > KDE2, a very good desktop environment.
> > > GCC, a world class C/C++ compiler.
> > > Countless languages and utilities.
> > > CD ROM creation utilities.
> > > MP3 generation.
> > >
> > > Too many programs to mention. All free. Sweet!
> >
> > Well you could have added MySQL and Gnome ;-)
>
> I think MySQL is too limited, it is a toy and I think it reflects badly
> on Linux and OSS.
Agreed, its' kind of the "notepad" of databases. Postgres, OTOH, is really
quite good.
>
> GNOME is too unstable. I keep trying it, but it never seems to work
> right.
> >
> > And OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/) is the successor to
StarOffice.
>
> I'll have to check that out.
>
> [MP3 snipped]
>
> Software patents are bogus and stupid. We must all fight them.
I always thought it silly to claim exclusive rights to an algorithm.
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, it is great.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 07:37:33 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Cannon Fodder wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, mlw wrote:
> >
> > >Windows may have more games, and support a few pieces of hardware that
> > >Linux does not, but Linux does almost everything, is free, and is more
> > >stable.
> > >
> > What impressed me was the wealth of scripting languages to
> > automate almost anything you might imagine.
>
> Damn straight.
>
> Every time I go to work at a new site, the first thing I do is write
> a bunch of scripts to solve the site-specific problems.
>
> After a couple months, I don't have much to do....
>
> Then boredom sets in...
>
> time to get a new job :-)
What I love is that once you script and cron a linux box, you can pretty
much ignore the thing and get down to actual work. The Linux boxes at the
office are pretty much out of sight and out of mind. They leave us plenty of
time to reboot and curse at our MS development stations.
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, it is great.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 07:52:09 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:r7V26.4363$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > It is funny, several years ago I had to do some research about what the
> > right OS should be for an embedded system. I had originally concluded
> > that it should be FreeBSD, but abandoned that for Linux in favor of
> > third party support.
>
> Which support is that? The only thing I can think of is a few binary only
> drivers.
>
> > Today, if one looks at Linux, it is simply amazing at what is available
> > for no cost.
> >
> > PostgreSQL, a full relational, enterprise ready SQL database.
> > Star Office, a full featured office packages.
> > Full TCP/IP networking support.
> > Apache, a world class web server.
> > PHP, a world class web scripting language.
> > KDE2, a very good desktop environment.
> > GCC, a world class C/C++ compiler.
> > Countless languages and utilities.
> > CD ROM creation utilities.
> > MP3 generation.
>
> All of these are available under FreeBSD as well. What's your point?
>
> > Too many programs to mention. All free. Sweet!
>
> Many of those programs are also available on Windows.
>
> > Windows may have more games, and support a few pieces of hardware that
> > Linux does not, but Linux does almost everything, is free, and is more
> > stable.
>
> It comes down to cost again. Linux will self-destruct as a commercial
> entity unless it can start generating revenues at a much higher rate.
Outside of the server area, I tend to agree. The only money to be made there
is via consultation and support. It won't disappear from the server market
anytime soon because its' just too darned stable, flexable, and
cost-effective to do without. Its' a Godsend. Besides, being open source, if
all of the distro makers belly-up and die, the OS will continue to mature.
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: PPP over serial line (w/ Win98 and Linux)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 07:52:29 GMT
Hi Bob,
Thanks for replying...
I took out proxyarp from the options file but it's still complaining the
same thing in the /var/log/messages. (Could not determine local IP
address)... any other advice?
Regards,
Brian
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
bobh{at}haucks{dot}org wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 08:08:16 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I got a cheap laptop recently (running Win98) and I am
> >trying to let it access the network. My server is a
> >RedHat Linux 7 box.
>
> I'm guessing that this machine has no ethernet?
>
> >box. With pppd and a chat script, I also "fooled" the
> >Win98 box that it's dialled a number and connected to
> >a dialup server successfully.
>
> Clever!
>
> >Here is debug message the /var/log/messages:
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> [snip]
>
> >Dec 25 14:22:09 dookie pppd[1909]: Connect: ppp1 <-->
> >/dev/ttyS0
> >Dec 25 14:22:16 dookie pppd[1909]: Could not determine
> >local IP address
> >Dec 25 14:22:16 dookie pppd[1909]: Connection
> >terminated.
>
> >-detach
> >crtscts
> >lock
> >asyncmap 0
> >proxyarp
>
> You don't need "proxyarp" if you don't have an ethernet connection on
> the server machine to proxy for. That's probably the source of the
> trouble...proxy arp needs to determine the IP for which it is
proxying.
>
> >Have any of you ever got PPP to run successfully over
> >a serial cable?
>
> Yes, many times.
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| To Whom You Are Speaking
> -| http://www.haucks.org/
>
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "fmc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft tentacles squirm deeper into software hosting
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 06:46:46 GMT
2 + 2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:92h0d3$bir$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> There are serious and numerous problems for businesses who have consigned
> important parts of their activities to outsiders, especially web
development
> and hosting companies.
>
> Even the bankruptcy of the LESSOR (not the principal) if the server space
is
> leased can be a problem.
>
> But of course, citing Microsoft as the "Beast" absolves the believer of
the
> need to think through problems in the real world of business.
>
> 2 + 2
I thought that was basically what I said; without referring to the "Beast"
of course.
fm
>
> fmc wrote in message <5JS26.33175$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >
> >Nick Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> [From The Register - www.theregister.co.uk]
> >>
> >> perhaps you've neglected to 'fund' the magic mobo
> >> chip; perhaps you're simply broke. Generally, a broke company
> >> can do limited business so long as the lights stay on,
> >
> >How long do you think they'll survive without paying their employees?
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------
From: Ralph Miguel Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: maximal mounts
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:15:24 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bob Nelson wrote:
> Ken Klavonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Bob Nelson wrote:
>>>
censored by jealousy
>
> It is indeed quite a ``multi-booting monster'' and LILO handles them all
> gracefully. Oh well, so long to Linux for just a bit, gotta go build XFree
> 4.0.2 under Solaris. That ought to take a take a while...
>
And itīs a nice filesystem-collection. You scored me out....... . I thougt,
OpenBSD, Linux and Win95 were much work for lilo. You really LOVE
alternation, right?
Ralph Miguel Hansen
Auf der Donau 29
45139 Essen
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Call for Papers: LCTES 2001 (ACM SIGPLAN Workshop)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:13:28 GMT
Call for Papers
ACM SIGPLAN 2001 Workshop on
Languages, Compilers, and Tools for Embedded Systems (LCTES'2001)
Snowbird, Utah, June 22 - 23, 2001
(in conjunction with PLDI'2001)
http://redwood.snu.ac.kr/lctes2001/
======================================================================
Important Dates
* papers due: Feb. 25, 2001 (5pm EST)
* author notification: Apr. 15, 2001
* final papers due: May. 19, 2001
======================================================================
Scope of the Conference
As the complexity of the application domains for the embedded systems
increases, new research challenges are encountered for achieving
desired level of performance goals (which could be diverse such as
speed, real time constraints, code size, power, and scalability).
Due to limited resources locally available, embedded systems are
increasingly used in a networked (wired, wireless, as well as mobile)
environment. In addition, advances in hardware reflect into solving
issues using a combination of hardware and software techniques.
The aim of LCTES is to provide a forum for discussing the latest
research related to the above trends and to allow researchers and
developers working on different aspects to get together and synergize.
Original submissions are invited in all areas relevant to this theme.
======================================================================
Paper Submission Guidelines
Papers should report new research and should not exceed 6000 words
(approximately 10 typeset on 16-point spacing), including figures and
references (11 pages). Short papers that describe existing
implementations or work-in-progress, or outline new problems or
important issues are also welcome. Short papers should not exceed 3000
words (6 pages). All accepted papers will be presented at the workshop
and published in the proceedings, which will be distributed at the
workshop. We anticipate that the proceedings will be published as an
issue of the ACM SIGPLAN Notices.
Electronic submissions must be received by 5:00 PM Eastern Standard
Time,Sunday, February 25, 2001. Interactive submissions through the
workshop's web page are encouraged. Submissions may also be sent as a
single e-mail message to either of the program co-chairs (MIME
attachments are allowed); the message should contain both the filled-
out form (see web page) and the Postscript paper. Electronic papers
should be in Postscript form, which must be interpretable by
Ghostscript. The Postscript must use standard fonts, or include the
necessary fonts, and must be prepared for USLetter (8.5"x11") or A4
page sizes. Authors who cannot meet these requirements should submit 15
hard copies by post to either of the program co-chairs by airmail that
must be received on or before February 25, 2001. These are firm
constraints; submissions not meeting the criteria described above
will not be considered.
======================================================================
Co-Chairs
Santosh Pande
College of Computing, 801 Atlantic Drive
Georgia Institute of Technology
Atlanta, GA 30332, USA
phone: +1-404-385-2169, fax: 385-2295
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Seongsoo Hong
School of Electrical Engineering
Seoul National University
Seoul 151-742, KOREA
phone: +82-2-880-8370, fax: 882-4656
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, it is great.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:24:41 -0600
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > All of them are available for FreeBSD.
>
> You mean via Linux emulation? uh, yeah... Kinda like something
> called wine, you might have heard of it... that sort of thing might
> be OK in a pinch, but native apps are where it's at....
Only StarOffice requires Linux emulation. Native ports exist for everything
else.
> > > PostgreSQL, a full relational, enterprise ready SQL database.
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/databases/postgresql7/pkg-descr
> > > Star Office, a full featured office packages.
As noted.
> > > Full TCP/IP networking support.
Duh...
> > > Apache, a world class web server.
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/www/apache13/pkg-descr
> > > PHP, a world class web scripting language.
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/www/mod_php4/pkg-descr
> > > KDE2, a very good desktop environment.
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/x11/kde2/pkg-descr
> > > GCC, a world class C/C++ compiler.
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/lang/gcc295/pkg-descr
> > > Countless languages and utilities.
Duh...
> > > CD ROM creation utilities.
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/audio/cdrdao/pkg-descr
> > > MP3 generation.
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/audio/bladeenc/pkg-descr
> > You're not listening. I said "as a commercial entity".
>
> But "Linux" is not a commercial entity.
> There are commercial entities standing behind Linux,
> e.g. IBM, Dell, Compaq, VA, Red Hat, etc - but none
> of these companies is "Linux", and their passing would
> not mean the passing of Linux.
What you're forgetting is that much of the work done on Linux in the last
few years has been due to the comercialism of Linux. If that commercial
support drops out, Linux goes back to crawling along at a snails pace.
Without commercial support there would be no RPM, no Linux S/390, no Linux
Alpha, no Linux PPC (at least on Mac's), no device drivers for devices who's
specs are not open, no KDE2 (as there would be no QT), etc...
Many of the cool free tools you use are developed by developers on the
payroll of commercial Linux entities.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, it is great.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:27:51 -0600
"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:JoX26.602$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > It comes down to cost again. Linux will self-destruct as a commercial
> > entity unless it can start generating revenues at a much higher rate.
>
> Outside of the server area, I tend to agree. The only money to be made
there
> is via consultation and support. It won't disappear from the server market
> anytime soon because its' just too darned stable, flexable, and
> cost-effective to do without. Its' a Godsend. Besides, being open source,
if
> all of the distro makers belly-up and die, the OS will continue to mature.
See my other post. Without those commercial companies, Linux development
will crawl to a halt. Do you think Linus would still be developing the
kernel (even at it's 3 year snail pace) if TransMeta were not paying him to
do so? He might, but probably nowhere near what it's being done at now.
You can argue that others do most of the work, but when it comes down to it,
nothing goes into the kernel unless it's been approved by Linus or Alan. If
they weren't being paid to do this, they would have to do it in their spare
time, which would be much less frequent.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:30:32 -0600
"Bob Lyday" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "Brad Wardell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:vRQ26.24038
> > > > IBM has never been able to program their way out of a wet paper
bag...
> > >
> > > I would have to disagree. No OS still can match the WPS or SOM yet
and
> > that
> > > was back in 1992.
> >
> > Athena looks quite promising from the perspective of the WPS. It should
be
> > quite interesting to see it develop.
>
> What the hell is that, more vile M$ filth????????? Never even heard
> of it......
Given your signature below, this message is quite ironic.
http://www.rocklyte.com/athena/index.html
Think before you flame.
> --
> Bob
> In the interest of the Christmas spirit, the nasty anti-Dubya sig has
> been put aside. Don't despair, it will return shortly. ;) However,
> spammers will get no mercy during the holidays. Therefore, you must
> continue to remove "killthespammers" to reply. ;)
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: VB job offer, and ensuing dilemma
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:32:33 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> mlw wrote:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > [snip]
> >
> > Minimum wage for a programmer is out of the question do not take it.
> > You'd be better off making more money at McDonalds.
> >
> > Professional advice:
> > (1) Study the industry, choose your jobs based on the future. Work on
> > ascending technologies.
> > (2) Never take a pay cut.
> > (3) If you are good, they will pay you.
> > (4) Never get pinned down to maintenance. Yes, make sure what you wrote
> > works, and works well, but hand it off as soon as you can.
> > (5) When changing jobs, never ask for, or accept, a counter offer.
> > (6) Remaining at a job is not a personal issue, it is a business issue.
> > If it no longer makes sense that you stay, leave. They'll lay you off as
> > soon as accounting indicates you are too expensive, you have the same
> > rights.
> > (7) NEVER leave until your project is done.
> > (8) NEVER take verbal direction, always ask for an e-mail to document
> > the conversation.
> > (9) Most of the time, stock is worthless, make sure you get paid too.
> > (10) Never say it is easy to do, because it never is.
>
> Very true. If asked for a time estimate...multiply by a factor of 5x
> in case you run into problems...
...and raise that estimate to the second power if you're ever called on to
port legacy code.
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: VB job offer, and ensuing dilemma
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:35:20 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > Minimum wage for a programmer is out of the question do not take it.
> > > You'd be better off making more money at McDonalds.
> >
> > I'd agree, but with the following exceptions:
> >
> > 1) If the company is extremely prestigious and has a low churn rate.
> >
> > 2) If the training leads to a valuable certification.
>
> Define "valuable certification"
A piece of paper that impresses bean counters.
>
>
> >
> > Does this job have the promise of a career, or is it simply a resume'
> > enhancer? Everybody here once worked at either Intel, Microsoft, or
> > Boeing. These companies go through I/T employees like grass through a
> > goose; as far as our HR is concerned you may as well have worked at Taco
> > Time on summer break. On the other hand, interning at Cisco and coming
> > out of the experience with a CCIE... I'd be willing to work for minimum
> > wage for that opportunity.
>
> In that case, it's not the CCIE piece of paper that's 'valuable'...
> it's the time at Cisco...
Of course, but again, that piece of paper will help you get a foot in the
door.
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: Ralph Miguel Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Please don't laugh.
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:34:04 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bonnie wrote:
> I'd like to look at Linux butthe only pc I can play with it on is a 25
> Mhz 486 with 4 meg of RAM and a 170 meg hard drive. Is there a free
> version of Linux that'll work on this and where can I find it?
>
> TIA
>
On a slightly better configuration with a 40 MHZ Cyrix and 8 MB RAM with a
203 MB Conner-Harddisk I run SuSE Linux 6.1 (Kernel 2.2.5) with smb and
nfs. It works good and reliable, but I tried X in a few variations -forget
it.
Ralph Miguel Hansen
Auf der Donau 29
45139 Essen
------------------------------
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