Linux-Advocacy Digest #137, Volume #31 Sat, 30 Dec 00 14:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does) (Craig Kelley)
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Windows - Is It Really Easier to Use? (Bob Hauck)
Re: Who LOVES Linux again? (Craig Kelley)
Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it (Jure Sah)
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code (Jure Sah)
Re: Linux, it is great. (Craig Kelley)
Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does) )
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Please don't laugh. ("Nigel Feltham")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Russ Lyttle)
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code ("Keldon Warlord 2000")
Re: Please don't laugh. (Peter Hayes)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does)
Date: 30 Dec 2000 10:42:00 -0700
Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Les Mikesell wrote:
> >
> > "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:vlb36.71054$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Yes, standards would make this fascinating idea possible. Pity NONE
> > exist.
> > >
> > > This is why the Windows registry shines. It's truly uniform.
> >
> > Yes, uniformly obscure and difficult to manage.
>
> The Registry's only advantage over INI files is that it
> can more easily nest items deeper.
I'd rather have INI files, if I have to do without comments in the
registry.
If Microsoft had put comments in the registry, it'd be *much* more
friendly.
> Says nothing about how easy the items are to understand. And, of
> course, you have to buy a bunch of third-party Registry books, or
> scour Livingston's frikkin' columns, to find out the tricks that are
> need to work with Windows and its vaunted Registry.
Yep, and the 'easy to understand' part could easily be fixed by using
comments.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:44:12 GMT
Hmmm...I wonder if this flat fish also swims around in talk.abortion.
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Sat, 30 Dec 2000 16:09:10 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 03:24:44 +1200, "Adam Warner"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>"Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code"
>>
>
>More proof of the twisted minds of the Penguinista's.
>
>It's not even funny?
>
>Now "Linux" THAT'S FUNNY!!
>
Better the twisted mind of a free-range hacker than
Microsoft twisting one around its little finger.
>
>
>
>Flatfish
>Why do they call it a flatfish?
Because its arguments fall flat. :-)
>Remove the ++++ to reply.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
up 92 days, 4:39, running Linux.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Windows - Is It Really Easier to Use?
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:43:48 GMT
On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 01:29:34 -0500, the_blur
<the_blur_oc@*removespamguard*hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Because the command line is FAR more powerful than point-drool-and-click.
>Hmmm...is there any text-based version of photoshop/illustrator/quark.
>(you realize how foolish the above seems right?)
Yes there is, sort of. XV and Imagemagick can be run from the command
line to do specific transformations on an image or group of images. You
can also add your own libraries to create new transformations.
When I was at Unisys, the R&D people used these tools to test new
compression algorithms (no, not related to GIF). They used scripting to
build test harnesses that simulated the entire acquire / compress /
transmit / decompress / verify process. The output would be a bitmap
that showed the differences between the input and the recovered output.
They would test hundreds of different images to verify the algorithms
with different input and different types of transmission impairments.
These folks could have had any tool they wanted. Photoshop wouldn't
have made even a small dent in their budget. So why do you suppose they
kept using the CLI tools?
> CLI is for servers, IE: machines that serve the requests of other
> machines but that humans don't have to endure.
I disagree. I prefer the CLI for most things that I do often and know
well. The GUI is nice for things that I don't do often and so have to
be lead through them.
> This is the kind of thinking that will have Linux forever at 4% market
> share.
And yours is the kind of thinking that drives engineers nuts..."lets
replace all the Unix workstations with NT because Unix and the CLI is
old fashioned".
> I'm surprised people don't embrace visual computing,
Why? There's no particular advantage to be had for many tasks. Other
than being able to have large numbers of xterms open.
> I think the best compromise is to have a window manager by default
> with available command lines.
Oh, you mean like Linux and virtually every other Unix these days?
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Who LOVES Linux again?
Date: 30 Dec 2000 10:47:05 -0700
Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I thought Java was supposed to "collect its garbage".
That depends on your VM. I wrote a java servlet that uses JDBC
connections using Sun's JDK2. My connection statements fell out of
scope, and you'd think the garbage collector would consume them. It
turned out that the collector *did* get them after a while, but when
the system was really busy it wouldn't, and the database would refuse
to execute any more statements.
Similiar code in perl was handled beautifully by it's garbage
collector; Java is a different story. I had to explicitly collect the
references after each database call to get rid of the problem.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Jure Sah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.linux.sucks,alt.linux.slakware
Subject: Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:50:14 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Ah yes, "Linux is easy to use".
> >
> >Alright, fine, LINUX is easy to use.
> >
> >Now make ALL the programs under it easy, and then we'll talk.
>
> Linux is not about programs. Linux is the kernel. Repeat after
> me....Linux is the kernel....Linux is the kernel....Linux is the
> .......
Ok, right. You know if I run Windows without any software at all, I
won't get any errors at all!
When will people finally get it that it's not the operating system that
can crash, only the programs on it?
> Linux is pathetic.
Yup. At least until it gets a Linuxal Basic that is better than Visual
Basic.
>From a previous post: "What do I do with the sucking Linux if I can't
run anything on it?!"
Linux is for the sheep-brained!
--
Don't feel bad about asking/telling me anything, I will always gladly
reply.
If somebody is sheep-brained he doesn't have problems with
socialization. What an irony...
Happy new year and this time the new millennium too. ;)
Those that are interested in the Mind project might look at:
HTTP://WWW.GeoCities.COM/GTSC4/mind.html (updated: 24.11.00)
457863656C656E742120596F75206465636F646564206D79207365637265
74206D6573736167652E20576F756C6420796F75206C696B6520746F2067
6574206120636F7079206F662074686520736F6674776172652049207573
656420746F20656E636F6465207468697320746578743F20446F6E277420
776F7272792C2049206D61646520697420616E6420492063616E20676976
6520697420746F20796F7520666F7220465245452E
GTSC4 -- If nobody else wants to do it, why shouldn't we?(TM)
HTTP://WWW.GeoCities.COM/GTSC4/
------------------------------
From: Jure Sah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:59:31 +0100
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> Hmmm...I wonder if this flat fish also swims around in talk.abortion.
Have the programs! Get the brains! Do a profile search at Deja news!
--
Don't feel bad about asking/telling me anything, I will always gladly
reply.
If somebody is sheep-brained he dosen't have problems with
socialization. What an irony...
Happy new year and this time the new millennium too. ;)
Those that are interested in the Mind project might look at:
HTTP://WWW.GeoCities.COM/GTSC4/mind.html (updated: 24.11.00)
457863656C656E742120596F75206465636F646564206D79207365637265
74206D6573736167652E20576F756C6420796F75206C696B6520746F2067
6574206120636F7079206F662074686520736F6674776172652049207573
656420746F20656E636F6465207468697320746578743F20446F6E277420
776F7272792C2049206D61646520697420616E6420492063616E20676976
6520697420746F20796F7520666F7220465245452E
GTSC4 -- If nobody else wants to do it, why shouldn't we?(TM)
HTTP://WWW.GeoCities.COM/GTSC4/
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, it is great.
Date: 30 Dec 2000 11:00:20 -0700
Osugi Sakae <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > It should be noted that the MP3 patent owners believe that Vorbis still
> > violates it's patents. There will probably be a lengthy court battle
> > over this when Vorbis releases it.
> >
>
> This should be interesting. If I understand correctly, Ogg Vorbis is
> already out there - not 1.0, but the code is available and it runs. All
> the MP3 guys have to do is look at the code. Where does this leave them
> legally if they wait another year or two to sue? "Yes your honor, we knew
> they were infringing three years ago but decided to wait until their
> software became widely used." "No your honor, it never occurred to us to
> inform the Vorbis developers that they were infringing while they were
> still developing the software. We prefered to wait and sue their pants
> off."
Even more ridiculous, their contention is that Ogg Vorbis' design was
modled because the developers understood mp3 -- even though they use
different methods.
It would be like RSA suing someone who came up with an NP-complete
security algorithm because they "understood" how RSA works. Very
silly.
> Seriously, is there any sort of requirement that patent holders take
> action soon after learning of possible infringement?
>
> Or are they simply FUDing in hopes of scaring companies into staying with
> the mp3 format.
Expect to see more and more of this in the future. As Open Source
software takes over (and it will), the only battle that commercial
companies will be able to wage is that of patents and copyrights.
They will try to patent and exploit every idea that they can. Other
companies will legitimize these attempts by using and paying for these
ideas (see Apple's $1M for Amazon's "one click" technology and
Microsoft's MP7 pay-for-play technology).
As long as they can keep the charade up, they will -- and the average
Joe won't give a damn because he won't understand (or care about) the
issues involved until it's too late.
> BTW, anyone know how soon their patent (is it a patent?) expires?
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.linux.sucks,alt.linux.slakware
Subject: Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it
does) )
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:01:31 GMT
On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:50:14 +0100, Jure Sah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >Ah yes, "Linux is easy to use".
>> >
>> >Alright, fine, LINUX is easy to use.
>> >
>> >Now make ALL the programs under it easy, and then we'll talk.
>>
>> Linux is not about programs. Linux is the kernel. Repeat after
>> me....Linux is the kernel....Linux is the kernel....Linux is the
I was being sarcastic, borrowing some lines from the Penguinista
script.
>
>Ok, right. You know if I run Windows without any software at all, I
>won't get any errors at all!
Then we would have to change it's name to Linux. Oh Linux has
"applications", but they are hardly anything a home user would want to
use. Even if they are free.
>When will people finally get it that it's not the operating system that
>can crash, only the programs on it?
You have discovered the key to Linux's stability :)
No applications.
No hardware support.
No crashes.
>> Linux is pathetic.
>
>Yup. At least until it gets a Linuxal Basic that is better than Visual
>Basic.
I'd prefer support for common hardware and a decent web browser, but,
to each his own.
>>From a previous post: "What do I do with the sucking Linux if I can't
>run anything on it?!"
Compile your kernel. It's fun and it's educational. Read How-To's,
mini-How-to's (sounds like some kind of Native American Indian), or
just plain screw around with it to try and convince yourself that it
is great.
>Linux is for the sheep-brained!
Yep.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Please don't laugh.
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:02:19 -0000
>Linux Laptop (which provides the graphical front-end). Initially, he
>chose SCSI drives because his BIOS didn't support LBA and only
>supported 512 meg hard drives.
>
This is not really a problem under linux as long as the /boot partition is
in the first 512mb as once linux kernel is loaded there are no bios limits
to worry about - you could easily use a modern 15gb drive on a 486 under
linux - under windows it wouldn't work without a drive manager installed to
override the bios during bootup.
------------------------------
From: Russ Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:13:24 GMT
Kelsey Bjarnason wrote:
>
> [snips]
>
> "Russ Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > > turned off. Personally, I could care less. So my electrical bill is
> five
> > > bucks higher; that's my choice.
> > >Does that affect you? Perhaps. Perhaps
> > > not. If it does, because rates go up, it _also_ affects me. Fine, so
> my
> > > bill is $100 for three months instead of $80. Whoopee. If you don't
> like
> > > it, see if you can get a law passed - and enforced - that requires me to
> > > turn off any unused lights.
> >
> > If you live in California, I would just as soon charge you for the power
> > that you use so my bill will go down. The problem I have is when you use
> > up power in your state, then try to rob my state of its power resources.
> > The Demlicans want to keep the big electorial states happy, so they keep
> > screwing me.
>
> What, you're a non-voting entity? Fine... why not vote, or move somewhere
> where you _can_ vote? You, and the rest of the sweaty bodies[1] making up
> the general populace, have at least _some_ say in who is in charge; if
> people in general think this issue is one worthy of note, it'll be dealt
> with.
>
> Feel free to start a petition, unite the masses, raise awareness... if you
> seriously think that the matter is important enough to John Q. Public that
> he _will_ rise up about it. If not, well, reality suggests that not
> everyone under a single system can always get everything they want, so
> either you have to convince others your way is right, or go somewhere where
> they do have what you want. Or skip paying electrical rates entirely, buy a
> generator, and pay gas rates instead. Whatever turns your crank.
>
> [1] Which includes me, just in a different electoral process. :)
My vote helped put Bill Richardson out of a job and swing Tennesse to
GWB. I didn't vote for GWB BTW, but for Harry Browne. I'm working hard
to keep the Demlicans and Republicrats from making it impossible for a
minor party to have a shot.
--
Russ Lyttle, PE
<http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
Not Powered by ActiveX
------------------------------
From: "Keldon Warlord 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 11:33:46 -0800
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 03:24:44 +1200, "Adam Warner"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >"Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code"
> >
>
> More proof of the twisted minds of the Penguinista's.
>
> It's not even funny?
>
what I don't get is how the hell can somebody "steal" something that is
given away for free???
--
"One by one the Penguins steal my sanity." (found printed on a T-shirt)
> Now "Linux" THAT'S FUNNY!!
>
>
>
>
> Flatfish
> Why do they call it a flatfish?
> Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Please don't laugh.
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:29:15 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:05:38 +0000, Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 03:44:56 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bonnie) wrote:
>
> > I'd like to look at Linux butthe only pc I can play with it on is a 25
> > Mhz 486 with 4 meg of RAM and a 170 meg hard drive. Is there a free
> > version of Linux that'll work on this and where can I find it?
<...>
> Go to www.tucows.com -> Linux -> Console -> System -> Mini-distributions
> and there's plenty to choose from. Some will run on your 486.
Out of interest I've downloaded Monkey Linux from Tucows, put it on a
486DX33 with 8meg ram and a 520 mb hd. It installed as a directory under
C:\, and works fine, including X.
Peter
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:38:07 GMT
Said John W. Stevens in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 29 Dec 2000
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>>
>> Said John W. Stevens in alt.destroy.microsoft on Tue, 26 Dec 2000
>> >"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Said LShaping in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:24:50 GMT;
>> >> >"John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> OTOH, saying that conservative extends to "conserving" something is
>> >> entirely bogus.
>> >
>> >Were you trying to respond to LShaping, or me?
>>
>> It was in the original post; you must have snipped it,
>
>No, I didn't snip it. The attributions are/were still right at the
>top.
Yes, the attributions, but not the text that provides the context which
answers your question.
>> I can't answer a question until you ask it. Which part didn't you
>> understand?
>
>I was not asking a question, Max. I was simply pointing out that
>your response was probably off, as it was directed to the wrong poster.
You were not asking a question, that is the case, yes. Please, ask more
questions; your statements aren't really illuminating anything. But if
you ask questions, then _I_ can illuminate things, at least, even if you
don't know how.
In case you hadn't noticed, Usenet is a conversational medium. My
comments were directed at whoever read them.
>> >I'll repeat: conservative is indeed partialy about conserving, your
>> >beliefs not with standing.
>>
>> That's nothing more than a silly metaphor; ripe for perversion and
>> useless for anything else.
>
>More semantically null responses . . .
Bullshit. <-------[Also not a semantically null response.]
>> Again, I'd ask that you let me know what in particular you disagreed
>> with if you're going to bother responding.
>
>I disagree with your policy of making bald assertions. If you have
>no reasoned, thoughtful response to a posting, why post a response?
What you call "bald assertions", a reasonable person would call
reasoned, thoughtful responses. Feel free to ask questions, if you
don't understand why they are reasoned, thoughtful responses.
>> >but you've yet to identify what specific issues you have with the
>> >conservative agenda.
>> >> That's because we weren't discussing what specific issues I have with
>> the conservative agenda, but how wrong-headed a blow-hard Rush Limbaugh
>> is.
>
>But, of course, you totally failed to supply even one example to
>justify your claims that Rush is wrong-headed, or a blow hard.
Like trying to find a piece of hay in a haystack. Pick a five-minute
segment, and I'll give you a dozen examples, minimum. Rush has trouble
staying rational for more than a thought or two in a row.
>Two web site references were posted in this thread, yet not *ONE*
>of you mindless Rush-bashers bothered to post even *ONE* word
>of critical analysis about these articles.
Go figure.
>Where are the "factual" errors? Where is the "wrong headedness"
>in those two articles?
Don't know. Haven't checked them. Do your own research. I stopped
bothering double-checking crap like that a number of years ago.
>Unable to point out non-existent facts, you adroitly side step
>the whole issue.
More bullshit. You expect I'll take the bait and try to "prove" Rush
Limbaugh is a blow-hard, to a Limbaugh fan? You've been posting to
Usenet too much, dude.
>> Which parts of the conservative agenda would you like to discuss?
>
>Pick one, Max. You are, as they say, ON.
No, you are. Which parts of the conservative agenda would you like to
discuss?
>> Not being a conservative, but a moderate, I'm sure I'll be able to
>> identify some specific issues we could argue about.
>
>Totally bogus! You are not a moderate, any more than I am.
Sorry, you're mistaken again.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 18:38:08 GMT
Said John W. Stevens in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 29 Dec 2000
16:51:04 -0700;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>>
>> I was a card-carrying libertarian at that time, in fact. It wasn't so
>> much the convention, as silly as it was, but my partner's comment, that
>> the whole place was filled with flakes and rich middle-aged white guys
>> who didn't want to pay any taxes. I've refused any party affiliations
>> since then, though I'd have to default to the Demos if I needed to
>> choose one, but only because they're powerful enough to matter under
>> whatever circumstances would force me to choose. That, and they're not
>> Republicans.
>
>Yet another indication of "the liberal mindset" . . . fear of
>commitment.
Actually, that's an indication of the moderate mindset. We do, after
all, try to not go so far as to commit to a particular "mindset", apart
from attempting to reasonably understand what's going on around us.
Pity more people don't do that.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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