Linux-Advocacy Digest #187, Volume #31 Tue, 2 Jan 01 05:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Why Hatred? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why Hatred? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why Hatred? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code (Form@C)
Re: Why Hatred? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code (Form@C)
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? (Richard Steiner)
Re: Why Hatred? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Why Hatred? (Form@C)
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? ("billh")
Re: Uptimes ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Why Hatred? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Why Hatred? ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Why Hatred? (Glitch)
Re: Why Hatred? (Glitch)
Re: Why Hatred? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Why Hatred? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Why Hatred? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: COM on UNIX ("Erik Funkenbusch")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 09:14:45 +0000
Joseph T. Adams wrote:
> The reason it is a bad implementation is that it is a binary standard,
> tied very closely to the platform and even the compiler in use.
Yet Borland seem able to work with it, in their Delphi and C++ Builder
products.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 09:16:42 +0000
JM wrote:
> Misinformation? As far as you know, they may have been using Windows
> machines that crash all the time. I for one have come accross some
> Windows programs that can crash the entire system.
>
> As far as we know, YOU may be the one emitting "misinformation".
> No-one can prove a thing accross the Internet.
My point was that they are saying Windows this all the time. Period. No
qualification. No "on my system". That's misinformation.
> >How about "shithead" or "liar" or "Wintroll". Those are the REAL insults!
>
> Or "linsux" or "Penguinistas", or swangomoree's infamous 500 line
> "Linux sux the big wazoo!".
I never use insults in my posts - until I've been insulted first, then
they're fair game.
Besides, I don't believe Linux sucks.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 09:17:38 +0000
mlw wrote:
> > In case you hadn't noticed, Windows API changes very often. Microsoft
> > are adding new stuff to it quite rapidly (and not always wisely).
>
> The magical mystery APIs of fashion, are not progress despite what
> Microsoft would like you to believe. Deliberate, well designed, APIs
> added as needed are far better than the Microsoft hack'o mattic crap
> that gets changed every service pack.
I did say not always wisely.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
Subject: Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Form@C)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:16:09 GMT
JM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
<snip>
>>As is the case with windows. We are not talking W2K/NT here - we are
>>talking home/small business. Why would we need most security patches?
>>There isn't anything to be secured against! OK, there are malicious
>>java bits and, in particular, VB scripting - which I won't allow. VBS
>>is just too silly and disabling it doesn't prevent you using most web
>>sites. At the end of the day though, at worst you will kill a machine
>>and need a complete
>
>At worst? You say that as if it's not that bad. Do you realise how
>inconvenient it is to have to reinstall windows?
>
<grin>
It usually Isn't *that* bad! This is a worst-case scenario though...
>>re-install. Providing you keep a backup of your latest game saves, home
>>finance spreadsheets, whatever, even that isn't an enormous problem.
>>The
>
>Not an enormous problem? You think that having to back up ALL your
>data isn't an enormous problem? And to do it regularly? Are you MAD???
>
Absolutely! Would I post here in any other state of mind?
<grin>
>>windows install is usually no worse than a Linux install nowadays.
>
>Except with Linux you can just change certain parts instead of the
>whole thing.
and with windows it is easier for the average home/small business user to
reinstall windows from scratch than to fix a problem caused by a security
bug in Linux. Many of these people don't know what a CLI is remember, never
mind how to use one! Otherwise I completely agree with you. Linux is more
veratile in this respect - which is not necessarily a good thing in the
lower end desktop market. People will "fiddle" with configs just to see
what happens...
--
Mick
Olde Nascom Computers - http://www.mixtel.co.uk
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 09:20:21 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm sure their fear is based on the fact that if Linux does (I
> should say when :-) become the dominant OS they will not be able
> to adapt to it. The culture shock from going from a GUI clickity
> click admin interface to the power that Linux and Unix offers
> must be a nightmare for MSCE's. Here in Europe Unix sys admins
> can name their price when looking for jobs. There just aint enough
> of us. MSCE's are 2 a penny and worth about that much. :-)
>
> Unix and especially Linux are really taking off here. Company's
> are fed up paying the Microsoft tax for unreliable low performance
> SW.
I must be in a part of Europe where I don't see as much of this. Certainly
my Windows skills are very much in demand. I'm not an MSCE BTW.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: EXCLUSIVE: Hacker Steals Redhat Linux Source Code
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Form@C)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:19:56 GMT
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
<92pu5s$l0j$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
<snip>
>
>curses.h, too.
Out, damned bug!
>I'm assuming that the name givers thought that UI is the hardest part of
>most programs as well.
>
That may be just to keep us on our toes. It makes the desktop far too tidy
and makes CLI easy to learn...
<grin>
--
Mick
Olde Nascom Computers - http://www.mixtel.co.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner)
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 03:03:34 -0600
Here in comp.os.os2.misc, "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
spake unto us, saying:
>Richard Steiner wrote:
>
>> Have you asked the folks who maintain XEDIT?
>
>What's the point.
Because those are the people who have the ability to change the default
to something that makes more sense for current users.
>Anybody who has access to the source code, and doesn't IMMEDIATELY
>recognize it as a flaw and fix it, is beyond reason anyway.
Chances are good that there is less than one full-time person assigned
to supporting that product, and that the source is not routinely looked
at in any detail.
Keep in mind that this is a very old product. The chances are good
that those who are currently maintaining it have little more than a
basic understanding of the source code, probably obtained by fixing
specific customer problems that've been logged against the product.
It's quite possible that the folks maintaining it simply aren't aware
that the default configuration behaves in such an inconvenient manner.
You have very little to lose by submitting a formal change request, at
least if you have the ability to do so.
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
+ PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
To hell with user friendly. Will it keep beer cold?
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 03:32:29 -0600
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > I doubt that. Don't you think she'd be on the phone to you after about
3
> > steps? "What's a mount point? What do I set these partition thingies
to?
>
> Why would she ask me about these things?
>
> All she did was click where it said "install kde workstation"
> like I told her, and sat back to watch the pretty flashing screens.
Strange, Neither Red Hat or Mandrake were that easy.
> > > > 2) Overwhelming amount of work needed to acomplish even minor
tasks.
> > >
> > > Please explain -
> > >
> > > To browse the web, you click on the icon
> >
> > After you've configured PPP.
>
> I have cable, but whatever.
>
> I remember years ago when I had ppp, it was a
> 3 minute task to go to the red hat control panel
> and click on the relevant buttons and type things
> like the dialup number, account and password in
> the dialog boxes.
After you found it. In Windows, all you do is boot up, and click the IE
icon, then it goes through all the setup for you, including configuring
email.
> > > To get mail, you click on the icon.
> >
> > After you figure out how to configure the mail program.
>
> Not sure what you mean, please explain. Are you talking
> about the MTA? that comes configured "out of the box".
> Or are you taling about having to type in the name of
> your mail server etc, just as you would in any windows
> mail program?
Windows streamlines this in a single configuration program.
> > > To start the word processor you click on the icon
> >
> > After you figure out how to install it.
>
> Not sure what you mean, it comes installed with the distro.
Depends on the distro.
> > Install something from a tarball? Unless you already know the syntax to
> > tar, you'll spend an hour figuring out how to do it. Then you'll spend
an
> > hour trying to figure out what you're supposed to do afterwards.
>
> Why would mom install anything from a tarball?
Because that seems to be the only way to install many kinds of programs.
> She would click on the kpackage or gnorpm icon,
> then select the package in the file menu, and
> click "install".
Right, and then when she downloads programs from the net, she'll wonder why
those programs that end in .exe don't work.
> > Ok, contact management software. Where is it? CAD software equivelant
to
> > AutoCAD or other high end CAD tools? What about MIDI tools?
>
> First of all, that's not OS functionality, it's apps.
Users are all about the apps. Most could care less about the OS as long as
it works and the App does what they need it to.
> Yes, windows has had a huge head start, but these things
> all exist in some form, and are quickly becoming more and
> available under Linux.
None of the things I mentioned exist in any form other than pre-larval.
> What was it you people were saying a couple years ago?
> "Linux has no 3D hardware video support, so it will die" -
> but now we have support in place and rapidly maturing.
rapidly maturing? There are only a couple of 3D drivers, and one of them
was just bought by nVidia and will probably drop support.
> and then what were you saying? "There's no commercial
> databases for Linux, so Linux will never make it" - but as
> you know, Linux now runs all major commercial databases.
Ahh.. like SQL Server, Informix, Ingres... right?
> What was your other mantra? "Linux has no support, no
> company you can call" OK, is IBM global services good
> enough for you? As you can see, your arguments are
> all being swept away by the invisible hand of competition.
At $1000 per incident.
> > > I was a windows user, and I tried Linux.
> >
> > Oh, so that means all Windows users that try Linux have the same
opinion. I
> > understand now.
>
> huh?
The only way your comment makes sense was if you were trying to say that
because you found Linux the best thing since sliced bread, then all other
windows users must have as well.
> > > Guess what? I now prefer Linux, and really don't like using
> > > windows anymorel. windows now seems much too limiting.
> >
> > What do you do with it?
>
> - web browsing with rich multimedia content
> - email communications (several hundred messages per day)
> - participating in newsgroups like this one (check my headers)
> - document processing (word, excel files)
> - programming assignments for classes
> - chat via irc, aol, yahoo etc
> - playing internet games like unreal tournament or quake 3 arena
> - playing CDs
> - ripping CDs to make mps
> - playing mp3s
> - downloading/uploading mp3s on napster
> - all my work as a system administrator and webmaster.
In other words, you don't do much of anything serious non-internet related
with it. You don't use it to mail-merge million record databases. You
don't generate large presentations with it. You don't create complex
databases easily to handle workgroup tasks. You don't handle 10's of
thousands of contacts and manage your sales process. You don't do generate
complicated reports based on millions of rows of data for CEO's.
> > Lots of places.
>
> mainly ex windows users, with some long time Unix users
>
> > Where did the 200 million Windows users come from?
>
> kmart, target etc - any place where joe 6 pack buys a
> pc and has no choice about what OS comes with it.
Home users are only a tiny fraction of the PC business.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Form@C)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:28:55 GMT
JM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>It may have escaped your attention, but this is a LINUX advocacy
>group.
defined in "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Linux" as
"A newsgroup dedicated to flame on why Linux is better than other OSs."
Quite a nice description, methinks!
--
Mick
Olde Nascom Computers - http://www.mixtel.co.uk
------------------------------
From: "billh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:31:26 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis"
> Why do you keep denying your initial reason for opposing to me?
I don't, as my initial reason for disliking you is your consistent lying
about what you've done. BTW, it is your lies that oppose you.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Uptimes
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:31:50 GMT
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:YMg46.7732$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> > Surely you've heard the old saying that the number
> > one remote nt administration tool is your car?
>
> No. You just made that up.
I heard the same line (nearly) at a Compaq re-certification seminar a number
of years ago.
Don't be so defensive! ;)
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 03:38:49 -0600
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Oh life is so hard using Windows isn't it!
> > >
> > > Yes, it is.
> > >
> > > Routine batch-processing jobs (like data collection and report
generation)
> > > is something that I can routinely accomplish with 15-120 minutes
> > > of script programming, and then a mere couple of SECONDS to type
> > > the command thereafter.
> > >
> > > Meanwhile, in LoseDOS land, the same task will continue to take
> > > several HOURS of my time EVERY WEEK.
> >
> > Any script you can write in Unix can be written for Windows as well. I
> > don't understand your point.
>
> Conceptually true, but not practically. Windows programs are not usually
> designed such that they operate in this mode. So, you can script all you
> want, but the things you would normally do can't be done.
Yes, and most X apps don't allow for scripting either.
Name something you would "normally" do under Linux but can't do under NT.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:47:23 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:bYg46.54612$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Joseph T. Adams wrote:
>
> > The reason it is a bad implementation is that it is a binary standard,
> > tied very closely to the platform and even the compiler in use.
>
> Yet Borland seem able to work with it, in their Delphi and C++ Builder
> products.
Yet, again, Visual Studio seems to have periods of indigestion when working
with it. It depends largely on what VS service packs and SDK updates have
been installed. An MSDN Subscription is pretty much mandatory if you're
going to do any serious, large-scale COM & WTL based development with their
platform.
__
Tom Wilson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 04:02:19 -0500
From: Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
> In theory MS could release an OS with an entirely different structure
> for the registry and not break a single application. This is possible
> since the interface to the registry is controlled through regedit or
> the appropriate library functions. OTOH with Unix the system is
> configured through any text editor and the configuration parameters
> are exposed at the lowest level - through the file system. Any small
> change to these files would break numerous programs.
>
oh yeah, and having a corrupt registry, or no registry at all would have
no affect on any WIndows programs?
Give me a break.
At least if a config file in Unix is incorrect a person is actually
able to read the file and fix what is wrong. Unfortunately humans do not
yet know how to read (at least with ease) the contents of the Win
REgistry. Besides, it must not be very efficient if MS has to make a
REgistry Cleaner in order to tidy things up. Plus, the bigger the
registry you have the slower your system can be. I've yet to see a
unix/linux system slow down just b/c it has a lot of config files.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 04:16:27 -0500
From: Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Adam Warner wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> <snip lots of sympathy for Windows users>
>
> > I came from the Dos-->Windows-->Windows NT world and I
> > invested the time to learn Linux. It has paid off very well
> > since I am working in a Solaris shop. Instead of fear, try
> > learning it. Having expertise in both makes you much more
> > employable. And every new release of Linux does not mean that
> > you have to throw away a big chunk of what you already know.
>
> Did anyone else get lost trying to set up networking in Win2k from scratch
> for the first time? The entire configuration interface is radically
> different from NT4 and you can't even add in a network adapter (that's
> actually done in the Device Manager in the Computer Management interface).
>
> (And how about those
> slow-you-down-and-make-you-click-everything-multiple-times Wizards that
> seems to be popping up in every inappropriate place).
>
> Regards,
> Adam
don't forget about all the fun viruses available. That's another thing
Windows users can brag about. They got more viruses than we do. It just
makes you wanna cry b/c windows users get all the fun.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 03:58:17 -0600
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > Ok, contact management software. Where is it? CAD software equivelant
to
> > AutoCAD or other high end CAD tools? What about MIDI tools?
>
> UniGraphics... you know...*THE* CAD tool used by ***ALL*** of General
> Motors and ***ANY*** manufacturer that wants to do business with them.
>
> and SDRC... you know...*THE* CAD tool used by ***ALL*** of Ford Motor
> Company and ***ANY*** manufacturer that wants to do business with them.
Jesus Aaron. Learn to trim your posts for your 5 line + 30 line sig.
First, Neither UniGraphics or SDRC run under Linux, and second UniGraphics
appears to only be used by GM Electro-Motive (the company that makes diesel
trains).
UniGraphics does run under NT though. For a list of platforms see:
http://www.ugsolutions.com/partners/hardware/supported/unigraphics/platform_
info/ugbase.shtml
IDEAS (SDRC) is used extensively by one of my clients. Again, under NT.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 03:59:35 -0600
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Pete Goodwin wrote:
> >
> > Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> >
> > > Because they are afraid of change. They might have to learn
something.
> >
> > About the only people I can see that are afraid on change are the Linux
> > zealots.
> >
> > In case you hadn't noticed, Windows API changes very often.
>
> This is a sign of deficient planning by those who wrote the original API.
>
> The Unix API has grown by only 10% of so in the last 10 years, and
> yet, it supports all the same shit Windows does....And yet, Windows
> has needed a 200% turnover in 10 years to keep pace with technology.
Where do you get these numbers?
10% in 10 years? You're obviosly not talking about the Linux API, since
there is easily 100%+ more Linux only API's than there are POSIX ones.
>
> Why is that?
>
>
> > --
> > Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
>
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 04:00:07 -0600
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Oh life is so hard using Windows isn't it!
> > >
> > > Yes, it is.
> > >
> > > Routine batch-processing jobs (like data collection and report
generation)
> > > is something that I can routinely accomplish with 15-120 minutes
> > > of script programming, and then a mere couple of SECONDS to type
> > > the command thereafter.
> > >
> > > Meanwhile, in LoseDOS land, the same task will continue to take
> > > several HOURS of my time EVERY WEEK.
> >
> > Any script you can write in Unix can be written for Windows as well. I
> > don't understand your point.
>
> Really?
>
> Fork off 500 paralell processes on a LoseDOS machine and see what
> happens.
The same thing that happens under Linux.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: COM on UNIX
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 04:02:13 -0600
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Yes...the idea was INVENTED on Unix....
> YEARS before migrating to Microshaft-land.
>
> It's called CORBA
Sorry, CORBA came after COM.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
