Linux-Advocacy Digest #281, Volume #31 Fri, 5 Jan 01 21:13:07 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. (.)
Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks. (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Big government and big business: why not fear both - www.ezboard.com (T. Max
Devlin)
Re: Windows 2000 (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next? (rj friedman)
Re: Windows 2000 (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Date: 6 Jan 2001 01:50:27 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Let's start with the Mandrake install process, which seems to have a
> mind of it's own. Feed it an "expert" parameter, which is supposed to
> prevent hardware detection, and it still tries to detect hardware.
Wow, windows doesnt even give you THAT option.
> It never prompts me to make a boot/rescue disk
It does for me, every time. You are either lying or doing something
wrong.
> and insists on mis
> configuring my Logitech wheel mouse.
Both of my logitech wheel mice (usb and serial) work just fine.
> In addition it thinks my Matrox
> G200 card has 4 meg, unless I select the SD version and then it asks
> me how much memory the card has, which is 8 meg.
Thats not linux, thats XFree86. You would have that problem under any
unix implementation which included XFree86.
> God help you if you choose not to set up your internet connection when
> you are prompted because ppp doesn't get installed (modem connection).
You can do that later, and its very easy.
> Even worse, if you decide to set up Networking during the install,
> internet connection sharing will never work unless you can figure out
> how to undo the mess of DNS and host name crap that gets scattered
> about.
Yes, all scattered about in both /etc and the documentation. It takes
less than a minute to set it all up.
> The solution is to answer yes to internet connection via modem
> and no to networking and set up ICS later. It works fine that way.
It works fine if you do it the right way too.
> Also, make sure you don't hit enter after you are prompted to install
> the second or third CDROM because even though the cancel box is NOT
> highlighted, that is what will happen and those programs will NOT get
> installed. Solution is to use the mouse and click OK.
Huh, both my CDRW and CDROM worked just fine right out of the install.
> Also Install everything is NOT the same as Custom->install everything
> option. With the custom->install everything you get more Enlightenment
> programs along with VMWare and other stuff. With the Install
> everything option from the main menu you don't get everything.
Under expert, you can pick and choose exactly which packages you would
like to install.
> So now let us proceed to post install. First off we must change the
> fonts from 75dpi to 100dpi in the /etc/X11/fs/config file.
The horror.
> Why on
> earth they default to 75dpi is beyond me because even on a 21 inch
> Sony monitor it looks like shit.
Not everyone is using the same hardware as you.
> Now we must change the default mouse to Microsoft intellimouse even
> though it is a Logitech mouse.
I didnt have to do that, and my logitech mouse works just fine.
> Warning, if you choose Logitech your
> mouse will NEVER work in Linux again and there is no way out of it
> unless you happen to be good at console commands and editing config
> files.
This is an outright lie.
> Also I had to change the refresh rate and other display
> settings including fonts.
Oh my god, you had to change your refresh rate? Interesting that no
where in your post do you note that all windows installs default to
a MAXIMUM of 800x600x60hz. You have to change that too.
> Speaking of fonts, Mandrake includes a nifty tool to find all of your
> Windows fonts and and make them available to Linux. It finds them all
> right but they don't appear as selections in any programs including
> DrakFont if you launch it a second time after adding them.
It depends on the program, but you can get them to be anywhere you like
if you read the documentation.
Apparantly youve never read the documentation.
"Calculus sucks because I dont understand it!"
"Well, did you do your homework and read the chapter?"
"Uhhmmm....no."
> On to Enlightenment which seems unable to even save the settings of an
> Eterm.
Thats not an enlightenment thing. Read the documentation.
> Change the font, save current settings close, relaunch and it
> goes back to default every time. This is with root or user access and
> does not matter.
Read the documentation. To wit:
Eterm -bg black -fg white +sb -s 10000 -F sabvga &
You can alias that if you want. Hell, you can make a cute button for
your desktop out of it too if you like. Read the documentation.
> How about the Wheel mouse which sometimes works and other times
> doesn't?
Mine always work. I have a serial wheelmouse, a logitech usb wheelmouse,
and a razer boomslang usb wheelmouse, all of which work perfectly, and
all at the same time.
> Usually opening and closing Netscape or whatever the
> offending application happens to be at the moment, makes it work again
> until the next time it doesn't work again. Why can't XMMS remember
> it's settings like song directories?
It does. Read the documentation.
> Why does the Enlightenment menu
> sometimes appear and other times doesn't?
Read the documentation.
> How about the icon box that
> comes and goes when it pleases?
That icon box has been broken for a number of years. Use another window
manager. Windowmaker is lovely.
> Applications that completely disappear
> from the desktop but are yet still running (alt/middle mouse button
> shows them)?
Thats an enlightenment feature. Read the documentation.
> How about no sound out of the digital port on the SBLive card?
The driver doesnt support it. Look for an update in the coming weeks.
> GMC that refuses to allow saving of some files, despite running SU as
> root?
You dont understand unix filesystems or permissions.
> Netscape that out of the blue decides that it needs all 512meg of RAM
> that my system has?
Netscape is a piece of shit. Use opera.
> How do you set up Dial on Demand using kppp (the default dialup
> included with Mandrake)?
Its in the documentation. Read it.
> Let's move on to Wine shall we?
> After trying pan to read news offline (like 99 percent of the Windows
> world does) and having it self destruct on me over and over again, I
> decided to try wine running Agent.
Huh. Works for me.
> What a mess, because I run Win2k.
> Someone needs to re-write that disaster of a man page (and while they
> are at it they should re-write ALL of the man pages).
They are fine. You simply dont understand them. Dont blame your own
ignorance and lack of experience on man pages.
And besides that, theres an assload of wine documentation on the web.
Look it up.
> Didn't matter because although Agent would start, as soon as I tried
> to go online it would segfault. Most likely had something to do with
> Win2k though because I have had Wine/Agent working with Win98 in the
> past fine.
You didnt read the documentation. Wine does not work with W2K binaries.
> It's difficult to believe that there are no good offline news readers
> for Linux. Leaf node is an abortion in comparison to running Agent and
> the only advantage is if several users are reading news and using the
> same dialup.
There are tons. www.freshmeat.net.
> Why doesn't Knode remember it's settings like Window size?
It doesnt need to.
> Why is adding to or editing Menues in Enlightenment such a pita? Shit
> I just drag and drop from menues in Windows. Seems pretty simple to
> me?
Enlightenment is not a windowing environment, it is a window manager.
> How about PM firewall? Well this one is a real gem if ever there was
> one. Simple to set up and it works very well. It should have prompts
> for possible selections though as it took me a while to figure out
> that my external interface was ppp0 and I doubt Joe Sixpack will ever
> figure it out.
Joe sixpack doesnt need a firewall for linux. There are other, much
easier ways to secure a box.
> Why does Mandrake insist on changing my mouse settings every time it
> boots up? I had to turn off hardware detection for that one.
It doesnt do that for me. You did something wrong.
> Why doesn't my mouse "hover scroll" meaning if I have a split window
> in an application if I move the mouse over each window I just have to
> move the wheel to scroll. I do not have to click in each window. No
> focus setting under Linux that I tried allowed this to work.
Thats a windows thing.
> How come I can't use a printer that is on my network and connected to
> a machine running Windows 2k?
You arent running samba. Read the documentation.
> Under Windows 2k on the same machine that is running Linux, I just
> select "Add Network Printer/browse and it finds the printer, add's the
> printer and I am done.
Neat. A different operating system.
> I screwed with Samba till I was sick of dancing and could not make it
> work.
Then you're an idiot. Its not that difficult, and you doubtlessly
didnt read the documentation.
> Why is there so much way outdated documentation for Linux out there?
> Even Mandrakeuser.org has stuff that will render your system useless
> if you follow th instructions with more modern versions?
You arent looking in the right place. Its easy to find, however you
do need a brain.
> Why is the Mandrake.com site just about useless?
Its quite useful to me.
> How come the upgrade CD I received turned kde into a vegetable? I had
> to reload the entire thing.
I didnt. You did it wrong, and didnt read the documentation.
> How come if I try to install Enlightenment after the fact it fails
> dependencies even though they are on my system?
ldconfig.
> I could go on for hours with all of the inconsistencies of Linux but
> now let's take a Windows 2k install and see how a quality,
> professional system should be installed.
You simply do not, and do not WANT to understand linux. Either that
or you are retarded.
> g:\setup.exe and away it goes.
> All hardware including my scanner and USB camera is detected.
> I didn't even have to install the scanner/camera programs because the
> default program installed with WIn2k worked fine but I did install
> PhotoShop which came with the scanner. Tell me about Gimpy again?
> After install, I did have to add Netbui protocol because for some
> strange reason my Linksys cards don't work without it?
> Click on create dial up.
> Click on share connection and allow demand dial.
> Install firewall (setup.exe again).
> Click on add a printer->network printer->browse and select the printer
> on the other system. Couldn't be any easier. Try that one under
> Linsux.
It took me all of 30 minutes to install Mandrake 7.2 on my system, and
everything worked perfectly right out of the box.
> That's it and everything works fine and I can enjoy my APPLICATIONS
> instead of screwing around with an operating system. Did I mention how
> many quality applications there are for Windows? The Linux
> applications seem like they are half done by comparison. Really they
> do. Compare that X-Traceroute program with NeoTrace. Or Gaim with the
> real AIM. It's not even close. Speaking of Gaim, how come it doesn't
> recognize my friends coming online real time, but requires me to log
> off and on again to reset it? Doesn't happen all the time, but enough
> to be annoying.
You do not even understand what traceroute actually does, do you.
> Nope, Linux is a crude, nasty system that is full of warts and is in
> need of some real polish before it is ready for mainstream use.
Perhaps, but why does it need to be ready for mainstream use? Its
just fine right now.
> Maybe Microsoft will buy Linux and make it worth using someday?
Ah. You ARE retarded.
=====.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Nobody wants Linux because it destroys hard disks.
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:55:41 GMT
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> Yes, I never have that sort of problem with on-line manual pages.
>
> "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:mbc56.146555$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Oh, like all the "documented" functionality under Linux.
> >
> > Nice try.
> >
> > "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:NmS46.54285$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
Man pages, info files, HOWTOs, a whole frikkin' CD full of
documentation.
And then you have the Web. Example: downloaded a 9 Mb PDF file
of a book detailing how to use the GIMP:
http://manual.gimp.org/download/
Try to do that with a Microsoft product. xpdf displays it
very nicely, by the way. No need to download Adobe Acrobat
to read it. (ghostview, on the other hand, was much slower).
Chris (another Illinois boy, transplanted)
--
Flipping the Bozo bit at 400 MHz
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.microsoft.sucks
Subject: Re: Big government and big business: why not fear both - www.ezboard.com
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:59:36 GMT
Said Johan Kullstam in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 05 Jan 2001
>T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
[...]
>> Its also why I, since I always buy a pre-built computer, I never accept
>> one which has worthless junk bundled in, even if its "free".
[...]
>bundling is all about forcing some subpar parts as a package because
>the primary is attractive. well, if it is attractive enough, then you
>take it.
That's my point. As one who happens to be particularly sensitive to
such scams, the value of the primary *goes down* for me, when it is
packaged in a bundle, in proportion to the lack of value in the least
valuable component in the bundle. In short, it can never get attractive
"enough", for me. I would, and have, paid more for the primary alone,
without the bundle.
>i am primarly angry that the labels on the modem packaging is so
>vague as to imho constitute fraud. fraud cannot be tolerated in a
>market system. if the customer cannot get themself informed, how can
>the market produce good results?
Precisely. The situation is much more grievous than that, though. If
the customers aren't determining, by their demand (since they are
ignorant, apparently, of what they're buying), what gets produced, is
there even a free market at all? Its not fraud, actually, its restraint
of trade. The soft-modem manufacturers, in agreeing with Microsoft to
not make drivers available for their products on non-Windows systems
(and apparently, they must be, since there's no profit in refusing to
make it possible for non-Windows consumers to use their own product),
are in restraint of trade, a violation of the Sherman Act. There are
strong doubts they will ever be charged, though, let alone convicted,
anti-trust enforcement being as lax as it is.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 02:01:09 GMT
Said craig nellist in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:11:28
>"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Really? Tell that to Office97 users who recieve Office2000 documents.
>>
>> You know....just like when Office 6.0 users recieved Office97 documents
>>
>>
>> And when Word5.0 users recieved Word6.0 documents.
>
>There are file format converters available so that early versions of Office
>programs can open files from later versions. And, funnily enough, they're
>available free of charge from Microsoft's web site.
Are there file format converters available so that later versions of
Office programs can write files for earlier versions? If so, they are
late, and they suck.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (rj friedman)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.freebsd,comp.os.openbsd,comp.os.netbsd,comp.os.inferno,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Operating Systems? Where would you go next?
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 02:01:12 +0000 (UTC)
On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:18:12 "Hugh O'Hare"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
»Microsoft has gained its current market presence through a combination of:
»
»strong arm tactics agianst legitimate competition.
»Excellent marketing skills
»Restrictive supply an royalty deals with hardware and software vendors (as
»outlined in DOJ verdict).
You left out one of the most important ones - the old drug
dealer standing outside the schoolyard gate's "The first one
is free," tactic. Where they offer everything "free" for a
year (or whatever gets worked out) in exchange for the
company going exclusively MS.
The bean counters think this is a great money saving deal
and push the company into it (often against the strong
objections of the techs) - not realizing (in the same way as
the innocent kid who wakes up to find himself hooked) until
too late that they have fallen into a deep deep pit. Even
after they realize that they have been taken, they find
themselves in so deep to the "one MS way" that is impossible
to climb out - just like the addict with his habit.
--
________________________________________________________
[RJ] OS/2 - Live it, or live with it.
rj friedman Team ABW
Taipei, Taiwan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To send email - remove the `yyy'
________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 02:07:29 GMT
Said Pete Goodwin in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:03:11
>Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
>> > I've seen you reply to 100+
>> > line posts, where your only contribution (if it can be called that) was
>> > to write LOSE (or some variant) where the original poster had written
>> > Win[32|NT|dows]. Is there some point to you doing this?
>>
>> Annoys the fuck out of you, doesn't it.
>
>It demonstrates how little you contribute to this group. It hardly annoys
>anyone, [...]
Bullshit. It annoys the fuck out of you, I'm sure, but you're too
passive-aggressive to ever admit it. I find it a bit annoying, myself,
but I'd sooner comment on Aaron's inability to snip, moronic attitude,
and reprehensible sig. Those are simple lack of etiquette, showing
Aaron to be an overbearing, pig-headed idiot; annoying, but in a way
unrelated to the discussion at hand. "LoseDOS" is simply annoying, and
it seems obvious that, like the sig and the reposts and the oafish and
immature behavior, is done intentionally for that reason. But at least
it seems to annoy some more than others, and I'm not one of the ones
that it annoys more. ;-)
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
------------------------------
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