Linux-Advocacy Digest #281, Volume #32 Sun, 18 Feb 01 05:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux and QA (Salvador Peralta)
Re: Linux and QA (Salvador Peralta)
Re: Linux and QA (Salvador Peralta)
Re: Which Linux? (Ant)
Re: Pop Quiz: Who made this statement 15 months ago? ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Where are glibc-2.1.1 binaries? ("Adam Warner")
Re: Which Linux? ("Edward Rosten")
Re: please help - modprobe cannot locate modules ("Adam Warner")
Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux ("Edward Rosten")
Re: please help - modprobe cannot locate modules ("eissimuf")
Re: Interesting article ("Edward Rosten")
Re: please help - modprobe cannot locate modules ("eissimuf")
Re: Pop Quiz: Who made this statement 15 months ago? ("Adam Warner")
Re: please help - modprobe cannot locate modules ("Adam Warner")
Re: Interesting article (Aaron Kulkis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux and QA
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 00:41:08 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
J Sloan quoth:
> > When someone tells me that a Windows text editor called PFE barfs
> > long before 100MBytes of text file - then I go and load a 130MByte
> > text file with PFE, and find I can hang Linux with said text file -
> > that's going out of my way to make my machine perform poorly is it?
>
> That whole story is very suspicious - as you'll no doubt
> remember, I tried the editor test on my system while I was
> compiling a kernel, and while opening a 180 MB binary file
> with a variety of editors, I was unable to make the system
> hang or misbehave in any way.
That is a great example of what I am getting at about Pete. I couldn't
get AbiWord to crash using a large file, not that anyone in their right
mind would use a word processor to handle large files with vi or emacs,
or several other programming editors at hand.
Of course, I was reading a couple of days later in comp.programming
some people were recommending programming editors for windows:
David Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
David> I use PFE at the moment but I find there are plenty of
David> times that it cannot handle large files, files with few if
David> any carraige returns or anything with binary stuff in it.
So that's a guy who programs on windows who likes windows and wants to
recommend pfe as a programming tool but...
As for Pete, if his experience ran counter to my own on one issue or a
few issues, I'd be inclined to treat him as having more credibility
than I currently do. But there are simply too many inconsistencies to
reconcile. Throw in the fact that the slightly befuddled air of
sincerity that he attempts to maintain disappears in the face of
smartass invective as soon as he is challenged on any point, and it
just makes me think that if it walks like a troll and behaves like a
troll...
--
Salvador Peralta -o)
Programmer/Analyst, Webmaster / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux and QA
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 00:44:27 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
J Sloan quoth:
> Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> > Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> > <96n7c6$gdl$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > >I agree with some of the criticisms as well. I just happen to feel
> > >that Pete exaggerates his problems and goes out of his way to
> > >create contexts for his machine to perform poorly.
> >
> > When someone tells me that a Windows text editor called PFE barfs
> > long before 100MBytes of text file - then I go and load a 130MByte
> > text file with PFE, and find I can hang Linux with said text file -
> > that's going out of my way to make my machine perform poorly is it?
>
> That whole story is very suspicious - as you'll no doubt
> remember, I tried the editor test on my system while I was
> compiling a kernel, and while opening a 180 MB binary file
> with a variety of editors, I was unable to make the system
> hang or misbehave in any way.
> hang or misbehave in any way.
That is a great example of what I am getting at about Pete. I couldn't
get AbiWord to crash using a large file, not that anyone in their right
mind would use a word processor to handle large files with vi or emacs,
or several other programming editors at hand.
Of course, I was reading a couple of days later in comp.programming
some people were recommending programming editors for windows:
David Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
David> I use PFE at the moment but I find there are plenty of
David> times that it cannot handle large files, files with few if
David> any carraige returns or anything with binary stuff in it.
So that's a guy who programs on windows who likes windows and wants to
recommend pfe as a programming tool but...
As for Pete, if his experience ran counter to my own on one issue or a
few issues, I'd be inclined to treat him as having more credibility
than I currently do. But there are simply too many inconsistencies to
reconcile. Throw in the fact that the slightly befuddled air of
sincerity that he attempts to maintain disappears in favor of
smartass invective as soon as he is challenged on any point, and it
just makes me think that if it walks like a troll and behaves like a
troll...
--
Salvador Peralta -o)
Programmer/Analyst, Webmaster / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux and QA
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 00:48:34 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
J Sloan quoth:
> > When someone tells me that a Windows text editor called PFE barfs
> > long before 100MBytes of text file - then I go and load a 130MByte
> > text file with PFE, and find I can hang Linux with said text file -
> > that's going out of my way to make my machine perform poorly is it?
>
> That whole story is very suspicious - as you'll no doubt
> remember, I tried the editor test on my system while I was
> compiling a kernel, and while opening a 180 MB binary file
> with a variety of editors, I was unable to make the system
> hang or misbehave in any way.
That is a great example of what I am getting at about Pete. I couldn't
get AbiWord to crash using a large file, not that anyone in their right
mind would use a word processor to handle large files with vi or emacs,
or several other programming editors at hand.
Of course, I was reading a couple of days later in comp.programming
some people were recommending programming editors for windows:
David Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
David> I use PFE at the moment but I find there are plenty of
David> times that it cannot handle large files, files with few if
David> any carraige returns or anything with binary stuff in it.
So that's a guy who programs on windows who likes windows and wants to
recommend pfe as a programming tool but...
As for Pete, if his experience ran counter to my own on one issue or a
few issues, I'd be inclined to treat him as having more credibility
than I currently do. But there are simply too many inconsistencies to
reconcile. Throw in the fact that the slightly befuddled air of
sincerity that he attempts to maintain disappears in favor of
smartass invective as soon as he is challenged on any point, and it
just makes me think that if it walks like a troll and behaves like a
troll...
--
Salvador Peralta -o)
Programmer/Analyst, Webmaster / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Which Linux?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ant)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 08:52:25 GMT
Sorry about that folks, I need to install linux to get the experience on
installing linux and learning it's commands. We use Unix a lot to support
web hosting. I wouldn't dream of running a GUI or web browser or server.
"Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
<3a8e4c7e$0$17177@reader2>:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> I got a older 486 laptop with 5 meg of ram and a floppy drive,
>> No CD-ROM. I want to install a version of Linux on it to get
>> some experience for a job position I am applying for in Web
>> Support. Which version should I install?
>AFAIK, both Slackware and Debian are very good for minimalist
>sytems. However, although Linux is not resource-intensive, it
>will have trouble doing anything but server work on a
>configuration like that. What were you going to do with it
>exactly?
>
>Mart
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pop Quiz: Who made this statement 15 months ago?
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:01:08 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Adam
Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "...we have been guided by the most basic American values: innovation,
> integrity, serving customers, partnership, quality and giving to the
> community. We compete vigorously, but fairly."
>
> (Please don't enter the quotation into Google :-)
>
> Adam
Billy?
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where are glibc-2.1.1 binaries?
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:06:51 +1200
Hi Chris,
> My goal is to upgrade from glibc-2.0.7 to
> glibc-2.1.1 (kernel 2.2.6). The reason for this
> goal is so I can
> install StarOffice, which demands glibc-2.1.1
> (despite what it says in the packaging). It looks
>
> as if I may need to upgrade my gcc as well.
Why not download RPMs? rpmfind.net lists many of them:
http://www.rpmfind.net/
The question is whether you can install RPMs into Slackware.
See the Slackware FAQ:
http://www.sirius.com/~oryx/linux/aols-faq.html
Question 10:
Can I use RedHat RPMs in Slackware?
A: Yes.
If you wish to use RPMs, you can use the command rpm2tgz (which comes with
most versions of Slackware) to convert RPMs to a Slackware tarball. You can
then use the Slackware pkgtool to install it. Alternatively, you can use
software called Alien (check freshmeat.net, below) which will convert files
between many package formats.
But do you really want to do this? The RPM format will install binaries and
other files where it wants to, and will not easily cater to your wishes.
Also, the RPM binaries may not be compiled the way you want them to be,
since not all RPM builders have exactly the same libraries that you have.
You will have more control over what goes onto your system, and (IMHO) a
more reliable piece of software if you download and compile software from
the original source code. (Hell, you have a great compiler on your Slackware
system, you might as well use it!)
If you *insist* on using RPM, and are having troubles, here are some tips:
a.. Create the directory /var/lib/rpm
b.. Initialize RPM with rpm --initdb
c.. Install packages with the --nodeps switch
======
Since you want to install binaries this seems the way to go.
Because of security updates I'd grab these binaries:
http://www.redhat.com/support/errata/RHSA-2001-001.html
Good luck,
Adam
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Which Linux?
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:15:40 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Edward Rosten wrote:
>>
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ant"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > I got a older 486 laptop with 5 meg of ram and a floppy drive, No
>> > CD-ROM. I want to install a version of Linux on it to get some
>> > experience for a job position I am applying for in Web Support.
>> > Which version should I install?
>>
>> I forgot to mention that Monkey Linux comes on 5 floppies and includes
>> X and netscape.
>>
>
> That must be one hell of a compression scheme.
No, it's not.
It uses arj libraries.
It's a circa 1997 distribution.
-ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: please help - modprobe cannot locate modules
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:18:09 +1200
Hi eissimuf,
> Despite compiling my kernel by entering "make dep clean
> modules modules_install bzImage", my /lib/modules/2.4.1/modules.dep file
is
> empty (perhaps it should be...?).
Shouldn't you make clean BEFORE make dep?
These are my standard steps:
make mrproper (or clean)
make dep
make bzImage
make modules
make modules_install
make install
(make install updates /boot and runs lilo for you).
One thing that is really important is to check out this document:
http://cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/kaboom/linux/Changes-2.4/changes24.html
It sets out minimum requirements for upgrading. In particular you won't be
able to use the pppd unless you have upgraded to that before moving to
2.4.x.
Regards,
Adam
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:26:50 +0000
In article <96n4r6$910$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> Dont get me wrong, I think that communism is a silly form of
>>> government and that it doesnt work at all.
>
>> You are FAR too charitable. Have you ever been to a communist country?
>> I have. Communism is not silly...it's barbaric.
>
> Ive been to both socialist and communist countries, and I agree with
> you.
>
> BUT: The question must be asked: Is communism a symptom of barbarism
> or is it a result?
IMO,
Neither. Communist ideas are neither bad nor barbaric. They are, however
fundamentally flawed. The fundamental flaw of communism comes from
ignoring the human element. It is the human element which leads to the
barbarism.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "eissimuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: please help - modprobe cannot locate modules
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:29:34 GMT
To compile the kernel, I was following the directions on this page:
http://www.freeos.com/articles/2589/
I will attempt compiling again after reading the information on the page you
posted. Thanks.
"Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hi eissimuf,
>
> > Despite compiling my kernel by entering "make dep clean
> > modules modules_install bzImage", my /lib/modules/2.4.1/modules.dep file
> is
> > empty (perhaps it should be...?).
>
> Shouldn't you make clean BEFORE make dep?
>
> These are my standard steps:
>
> make mrproper (or clean)
> make dep
> make bzImage
> make modules
> make modules_install
> make install
> (make install updates /boot and runs lilo for you).
>
> One thing that is really important is to check out this document:
> http://cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/kaboom/linux/Changes-2.4/changes24.html
>
> It sets out minimum requirements for upgrading. In particular you won't be
> able to use the pppd unless you have upgraded to that before moving to
> 2.4.x.
>
> Regards,
> Adam
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:29:53 +0000
> The Venn Diagram doesn't really tell the picture well, though because
> "UNIX" isn't at the same level in the taxonomy as Linux. It's a set of
> OSes, one level above the OS level. Comparing UNIX to Linux isn't like
> comparing apples and oranges. It's more like comparing a scalar to a
> set.
More like comparing fruit to apples :-)
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "eissimuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: please help - modprobe cannot locate modules
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:33:48 GMT
Several of my programs listed on that page were not on that page, I'm going
to update them and give recompiling the kernel another go...
"Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hi eissimuf,
>
> > Despite compiling my kernel by entering "make dep clean
> > modules modules_install bzImage", my /lib/modules/2.4.1/modules.dep file
> is
> > empty (perhaps it should be...?).
>
> Shouldn't you make clean BEFORE make dep?
>
> These are my standard steps:
>
> make mrproper (or clean)
> make dep
> make bzImage
> make modules
> make modules_install
> make install
> (make install updates /boot and runs lilo for you).
>
> One thing that is really important is to check out this document:
> http://cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/kaboom/linux/Changes-2.4/changes24.html
>
> It sets out minimum requirements for upgrading. In particular you won't be
> able to use the pppd unless you have upgraded to that before moving to
> 2.4.x.
>
> Regards,
> Adam
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pop Quiz: Who made this statement 15 months ago?
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:35:57 +1200
Hi Edward,
> > "...we have been guided by the most basic American values: innovation,
> > integrity, serving customers, partnership, quality and giving to the
> > community. We compete vigorously, but fairly."
> >
> > (Please don't enter the quotation into Google :-)
> >
> > Adam
>
> Billy?
Yep, great guess:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/trial/nov99/110599.asp
The entire sentence is:
"Microsoft has succeeded because we have been guided by the most basic
American values: innovation, integrity, serving customers, partnership,
quality and giving to the community. We compete vigorously, but fairly."
I found the statement kind of ironic. It was a response to District Court
Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson's findings of fact.
And they tie in so nicely with Microsoft saying that free software is
un-American.
Anyone notice that Microsoft didn't even release a clarifying statement?
Regards,
Adam
> Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
> weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
> - The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
LOL.
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: please help - modprobe cannot locate modules
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:41:39 +1200
Oops:
> make mrproper (or clean)
make xconfig (the cool GUI selection utility) should be in here.
> make dep
> make bzImage
> make modules
> make modules_install
> make install
> (make install updates /boot and runs lilo for you).
Adam
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 04:53:29 -0500
Steve Mading wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> : Chad Myers wrote:
> :>
> :> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> :> news:96jg3p$9hn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> :> >
> :> > "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> :> > news:MEaj6.27470$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> :> >
> :> > < Perm bits
> :> > > are ancient, a poor design, and are really unsecure.
> :> >
> :> > Describ a way to get over permissions in any *nix that implement perm bits
> :> > (all of them).
> :>
> :> You're not understanding what I'm saying...
> :>
> :> It's the mentality. Permission bits are extremely limiting, as they
> :> only allow one owner, one group, and everyone else.
>
> : And gasoline engine + wheels is extremely limiting as compared
> : to say, wings, rocket engines, and a launch pad.
>
> : But as long as you have not the slightest intention of taking
> : your wheeled vehicle across the ocean, it is quite sufficient.
>
> : You can have 65535 DISTINCT groups on a Linix system, Chad.
>
> But a file cannot be a member of more than one group at a time.
> This *is* a limitation - just not enough of one to matter as
> much as Chad FUDs it up to seem. Another limitation of UNIX
> groups is that one must be root to make one, which leaves
> ordinary users no way to say "I want fred, charlie, bob, and
> mary (and only them) to be able to write to this file, but they
> haven't been put together into a group by the admin and I hate
> to bug him to make a group for just this one file." Unlike
Creating a new group takes all of several seconds.
And, no, users should NOT be able to create private groups on the
fly....it *IS* a security issue (otherwise, you can have employees
making privately defined groups that EXCLUDE management).
The creation of a group IS a workplace policy issue, and therefore,
requiring administrator action to do it is quite proper.
> Chad, I don't see the solution as being the use of ACL's, which
> can be a bit wasteful to maintain (in both user time and OS
> resources). I think the optimal solution would be to implement
> one of the following two things:
The only reason for Chad's infatuation with ACL's is because that's
the *only* file security model available in LoseNT and Lose2k.
>
> 1 - Make a filesystem structure that handles the idea that
> a file can be in multiple groups. This would require a lot
> of work percolating up the system, though (many programs
> have already been written with the assumption that each
> file is a member of exactly one group.) The easiest way
> to get it to work without hurting the exisitng programs might
> be to internally make 'pseudogroups' whenever a new combination
> of groups is made for a file, and put the pseudogroup ID in the
> group ID field.
>
> 2 - Give users some means of making 'user-level-groups' on their
> own, so they can make up their own permissions as they need for
> their own files. Perhaps the GID space would be divided into two
See above. We already have enough problems with "user anarchy".
Doing this would merely create more of the same.
> parts, all GIDs <= N are root-only created and all GIDs > N would
> be for users to make (kind of like how socket port numbers are
> partitioned).
>
> Both of these would require a lot of work, of course, but I think
> the second is a lot easier to implement than the first, and it
> gives all the functionality of ACL's without the ugly extra
> data to keep track of at the file-level. (At the file level,
> you still just have a GID like normal. The changes would be at
> the OS level, in the way it looks up group ID's.)
>
> Oh, and of course, for my idea #2 to work, we'd probably need
> some user quota on how many groups a user can make (so some
> jerk doesn't try to go and make 65535 groups just to deny the
> ability for others.)
That's only one drawback...there are others as well.
>
> : And if that's not enough for you, go hack the code, and make
> : it a 32-bit integer, so that you can have 4 BILLION groups.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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