Linux-Advocacy Digest #434, Volume #31 Sat, 13 Jan 01 12:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: KDE Hell ("MH")
Re: Linux *has* the EDGE! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux *has* the EDGE! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: i LOVE this- the auther is a genius (Andres Soolo)
Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance ("Chad Myers")
Re: Windows Stability (Andres Soolo)
Re: Windows Stability (Andres Soolo)
Re: You and Microsoft... (Bob Hauck)
Re: Two Thumbs up for the AntiTrust Movie and Open Source (mlw)
Re: Linux IDE RAID Cards (mlw)
Re: Ed is the standard editor ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux IDE RAID Cards ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: KDE Hell (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: you dumb. and lazy. ("ono")
Re: i LOVE this- the auther is a genius (.)
Good read from ZDnet (sfcybear)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant ("ono")
Re: A salutary lesson about open source (pip)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:12:54 -0500
"Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:39:42 -0500, MH wrote:
> >
>
> >CC classes in my neck of the woods are running < 45$ a credit hour.
> >Most CS classes are 3 to 4 credits. So, say 'Joe' wants to check out C++.
> >40 * 4 + 59 for Borland Turbo C++ suite, or, add another 30 for MSVC++ 6.
>
> So that's $229, and you haven't started buying books. Most likely,
> the instructor is going to choose books that are a complete waste
> of money. For that money,
> you could have several good books. Let's see, you could get:
The C class I allude to in my post required Mix Software's PowerC book &
(dos) compiler. About $25 IIRC. The class was 4 credits at $38 a credit
hour. The instructor was a Unix guy. He set the class up with an account on
a linux box in order to telnet in and use GCC. Was the instructor a good
instructor? I'd say average. What you get from any CS class is what you're
going to put into it. If you are not a complete wall flower, and take
advantage of the healthy and competitive atmosphere that a class provides,
(not to mention if your GPA matters to you) a CC class will do quite a bit
more than reading the following on your own:
> C++ How to Program
> Accelerated C++
> The C Programming Language
> The C++ Programming Language
> Effective C++
In quite a bit less time.
> >Not bad considering 16 -3 hour classes with an instructor in a computer
lab
> >for one out of the three hours. We all know the value that a classroom
> >setting provides is worth much more that the $$ spent to take it.
>
> I know what value such a setting provides because I teach. Most undergrad
> instructors are incompetent, especially at the weaker schools. Students
> tend to learn very slowly in these classes, and learn how to regurgitate
> the instructors (wrong) ideas on the exams.
I won't argue as to the incompetence of instrutors. The Republicans don't
like educated people, and as such, won't allocate the money to pay educated
people to teach. This is likely to get worse.
Students in CS should be weeded out ASAP. I had a BASIC-Visual Basic
instructor, who in the second week of an introductory programming course in
BASIC, had the class writing double and triple nested loops that required
mathmatical dependance for the required output. The class lost 15 or more
students by week 4. Later, after I had befriended this instructor, I asked
him about it. He replied that the loop thing in week 2 was his
"weed-wacker" -that so many students were coming into his VB classes from
other BASIC instructors who couldn't do squat. Harsh? Yep. But if more
instructors employed at least a little of this into the entry level courses,
the higher level courses would have competent, enthusiastic students.
> >Is 'Joe' better off spending nothing for Linux to have GCC and not taking
> >the class?
>
> Joe could get gcc and take the class -- if it was worth it. I'd dispute
> the value of such a thing though -- the beginner would learn more by
> self-studying and lurking on comp.lang.c++
If the class & instructor suck, I agree.
> >Joe could go Linux & take the class, but then he has to deal with GCC,
and
> >he had better learn GDB to have a fighting chance at figuring out what is
> >wrong with his compiled code.
>
> Nonsense. Basic fact: most 1st year students don't use debuggers, largely
> because they do not need them. Personally, I use debuggers for tracking
> down obscure errors with dynamic memory allocation.
First year students, yes. But I began with BASIC, then VB, then Pascal, then
C.
At this point, I wanted an IDE with a comprehensive debugger for C --one
that didn't spit out arcane error messages while I was trying to learn a
language much different than the ones that preceeded it.
> One also has to learn how to use the IDE. Beginners have all sorts of
> problems with the IDE. For example, they have to deal with the
> "disappearing console" in Borland. They have to deal with the "Crashing
> operating system" with any compiler. They get confused by all the
> bells and whistles. IDEs are not a silver bullet. They need to be
> learned as with any environment.
Crashing the OS will, at the very least, make you set breakpoints as a
matter of habit on code sections you're having trouble with. Can you do most
of this stuff writing your own error handlers and using printf to see what's
going on? Of course. I guess my days with VB spoiled me rotten, in that I
like to see the workings of the beast in slow motion.
> If you believe that IDEs make beginners more productive, I'm going to
> flatly contradict you and point out that I've taught courses and
> watched students use IDEs and use emacs/gcc. There's not a substantial
> difference.
I agree, with one caveat. I could teach someone how to use a Borland C\C++
compiler for learning C a whole lot faster than I could Emacs & Gcc. My God,
Emacs is two courses in and of itself.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux *has* the EDGE!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:18:57 +0000
R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) wrote:
> > > Any particular reason you're referring to Windows 3.1 here?
>
> Keep in mind that clear back in 1993, Windows advocates were trying to
> tout
> the "Vast Superiority" of Windows 3.1 over UNIX and Linux. Microsoft
> spend
> $4 billion in advertizing from 1983 to 1984. Any publication that
> endorsed UNIX or Linux was punished by Microsoft who pulled ads, and even
> pulled OEM ads (since their Co-op agreement permitted them to pull any
> co-op sponsored ad if they objected to the placement).
I was wondering why you brought up Windows 3.1 when Windows 9x/NT/2000 are
all using a completely different style of multitasking.
> > > Windows
> > > 95/98/ME/NT/2000 are all pre-emptive multitasking.
>
> True but the multitasking is still sigificantly inferior to
> Linux or UNIX. Windows 2000 was substantially improved, but
> all of the applications would have to be redisigned and reimplemented
> to exploit the improvements.
I would agree with you for Windows 9x, but I'm less sure about NT/2000.
What design changes would an application need to exploit the improvements
in Windows 2000?
> > > Windows explorer across a 10MBit
> > > network does not display the icons until
> > > all the file names are known. KDE
> > > konqueror tries to display the file names
> > > as it goes, and consequently takes longer.
>
> This may partly be because Windows deals with
> the entire result set as a single object. UNIX deals
> with the result as a stream of results. As a result,
> you can begin displaying what might be a result set
> of several thousand files (remember back in the days
> with FAT 16 would only let you have 256 files per
> directory). When you have to treat the entire response
> as a single object, you must allocate memory for the entire
> object, and allocate process space and kernel space for
> the entire object. When the objects are huge, the situation
> can get pretty ugly.
>From observing the list jumping around, I think the problem I'm referring
to is the KDE object being continuously updated, instead of ignored until
all the list is in.
> > > Looks like Windows developers
> > > have learnt something the KDE guys haven't yet.
This comment still applies, see above.
> > > What I observed was everything ran about the same speed, perhaps
> > > faster on Windows. I've yet to see anything run faster on Linux.
>
> This is probably true. Bits only move so fast. There are ergonomic
> principles that often involve a number of trade-offs. I don't agree with
> every trade-off made by GNOME or KDE. And if you really want an ugly but
> fast interface TWM is ugly fast. Which won't impress anybody when you are
> using a 600 mhz Pentium, but can be very nice on Windows 100.
Yet people here regularly claim Linux is faster (or even three times as
fast), implying everything is so much slicker on Linux than on Windows.
> I think we agree that GUI preferences are a matter of personal preference.
> Windows 2000 gives you ONE option. Linux just happens to give you your
> choice of about 6 (more if you count the styles).
Except the don't exactly "play ball" too well with each other. They are in
competition, so cooperation is sometimes a casualty.
> Microsoft wants you to ues VB because you can't put it elsewhere.
> Microsoft doesn't want you to use PERL, JAVA, TCL, or any other "cross
> platform" environment, because you might stop paying 10 times the
> production cost for
> Microsoft products. And Microsoft wouldn't be able to get 50% profit on
> revenue.
What about VC++?
I use Delphi and am eagerly awaiting the release of Kylix, a cross
development platform for Windows/Linux.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux *has* the EDGE!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:20:32 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> CLI's are only "from the 70's" if you were bold enough to ignore
> >> Microsoft prior to 1995.
> >
> >Let me see, what was I using at EMI and Digital before then. Gasp! A CLI!
>
> Since when has Microsoft ever sold timesharing systems?
I'm sorry?
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: i LOVE this- the auther is a genius
Date: 13 Jan 2001 14:20:52 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad C. Mulligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually the issue was how much Gates paid. It was billions how it was used
> by those he gave it to is irrelevent.
Ah, if that's the case, I can donate many more billions to a charity
foundation of my own, provided it returns them to me so I can donate them
again. Does it make me a big philanthropist?
--
Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Revenge is a form of nostalgia.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:22:13 GMT
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > Doesn't seem to be an issue, as NT has regularly beaten linux in all sorts
> > of performance tests.
>
> Wrong again, wintroll -
>
> Check out the specweb 99 results for a heads up.
Kernel based web server. Not realistic. Who cares.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 Major Advance
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:23:17 GMT
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> > > Hate to break this to you, but resier has been shipping for some time.
> >
> > Really? This must have been within the past month or two, because we
> > were just having this debate about that time.
>
> Suse has been shipping reiser for several versions now.
>
> So, what would that be, at least a year?
Ah... so the falacy comes to light.
ReiserFS itself isn't shipping. It's still in beta, and it's
still not stable.
Suse, however, has been including the beta version in its
distributions for people to mess with, but it's, in no way,
the default FS because, of course, it's not stable.
Why don't you just tell the truth, J Sloan?
-Chad
------------------------------
From: Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows Stability
Date: 13 Jan 2001 14:41:13 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Nik Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> they made a stable OS. How can it be stable if "service packs"
>> can cause a system instability?
> Service packs replace parts of the OS, of course they can cause instability,
> only a fool would think otherwise.
If so, the service pack *are* parts of the OS. Are you saying that
parts of MSW are instable?
--
Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Here's something to think about: How come you never see a headline like
`Psychic Wins Lottery.'
-- Jay Leno
------------------------------
From: Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows Stability
Date: 13 Jan 2001 14:45:43 GMT
> Memory Leaks. Goodness, never heard of those in Unix, what do they do?
In Unix, all leaks die along with their host, and that's the process.
Not the OS. Not the whole machine. Just one single process.
Well coded applications don't have memory leaks.
Many good applications have good gc facilities.
--
Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
If God had not given us sticky tape,
it would have been necessary to invent it.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: You and Microsoft...
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:44:09 GMT
On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:52:06 +0100, Peter Köhlmann
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>> Let's just say 28.8. Since there are 10 bits in each byte over modem
>> (8 bits, 1 start, 1 stop bit) that's 2880 bytes a second. To
>> download 100 meg would take 9.6 hours.
It is more like 8.01 bits/byte over the modem, since LAPM does
blocking. Yeah, a nit, but Erik loves nits.
>> Even a basic Linux machine will be at least 300 Meg, so that's over 27
>> hours, or more than a day. Not "overnight".
A "minimal" install of Caldera eDesktop is about 120 MB, IIRC. Includes
X but not many apps. A custom install can be smaller than that, esp if
you get rid of the X servers.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.haucks.org/
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Two Thumbs up for the AntiTrust Movie and Open Source
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:56:16 -0500
Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> "Brian Craft" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I just came from the first showing of the Antitrust movie,
> > http://www.antitrustthemovie.com , and give it a 2 thumbs up for support
> > for the Open Source Community. It very clearly shows what Microsoft has
> > and is doing and in the end, Open Source prevails!
> >
> > A must see for all fellow Open Source geeks!!
>
> Just don't try to watch the trailer while running Linux (thanks, Apple
> Computer).
The Irony, oh! the irony.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux IDE RAID Cards
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:01:28 -0500
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Chris Lopeman wrote:
> >
> > Can anyone recommend a good raid IDE controller for Linux. Preferably
> > ATA 100. We have tried using the Promise controller with limited
> > success. We probably want to run 2 controllers in the server (for more
> > speed) with a total of 6 drives. 4 of the drives running raid 1+0 and
> > the other 2 forming a separate mirror. The 2 in the mirror we also want
> >
> > to boot off of.
> >
> > If you can't recommend a good one maybe you can let us know your
> > experience with the AMI or Escalade cards. We are considering going to
> > one of these.
>
> http://www.research.att.com/~gjm/linux/ide-raid.html
>
The link you posted was for software raid. There are a lot of pros and
cons for hardware vs software for RAID, but in the case of IDE, a
hardware raid solution makes more sense than a software one.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.apps,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip,alt.os.linux,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ed is the standard editor
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:12:30 -0500
Bob Eager wrote:
>
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:07:05, "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > > Back in the 1970s it was quite usable. At Columbia U. I was using a
> > > PDP-11 RSTS system and hated the editor there. I wrote an ed clone in
> > > Basic which became the standard editor on the system for everyone while
> > > I was there.
> >
> > I found it to be even worse then IBM's mainframe version of edit.
>
> The one thing was that it was actually incredibly powerful; I'm not
> sure how many people ever mastered 'decorated brackets' in regular
> expressions though.
>
> I have a version in FORTRAN somewhere that I was once forced to
> install on an ICL system in 1984, for want of anything approcahing any
> functionality.
Yeah, i was just looking at the ed man page on my linux system....
a lot more than what I remember...but...like all line editors, still
a pain compared to vi/ex.
>
> --
> Bob Eager
> rde at tavi.co.uk
> PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
> 8580*6,
> 8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux IDE RAID Cards
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:12:41 -0500
Steve Wolfe wrote:
>
> > Can anyone recommend a good raid IDE controller for Linux. Preferably
> > ATA 100. We have tried using the Promise controller with limited
> > success. We probably want to run 2 controllers in the server (for more
> > speed) with a total of 6 drives. 4 of the drives running raid 1+0 and
> > the other 2 forming a separate mirror. The 2 in the mirror we also want
> >
> > to boot off of.
>
> If you really need that much speed that you're going to go with two IDE
> RAID controllers, you really might want to look into a SCSI RAID setup.
> Having used SCSI RAID, I can say that it just makes you go "ooooooh" with
> delight. It's definitely worth the extra money.
Not only that, but you can put all your disks on ONE SCSI channel
and STILL get better performance than IDE.
Especially under Linux.
>
> steve
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
Date: 13 Jan 2001 16:37:16 GMT
On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:12:54 -0500, MH wrote:
>
>"Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:39:42 -0500, MH wrote:
>going to put into it. If you are not a complete wall flower, and take
>advantage of the healthy and competitive atmosphere that a class provides,
Depends on who else is in the class ;-) In the classes I have taught, unless
you'r competing with the best 2% of the students in the class, you're moving
pretty slowly.
>(not to mention if your GPA matters to you) a CC class will do quite a bit
>more than reading the following on your own:
>
>> C++ How to Program
>> Accelerated C++
>> The C Programming Language
>> The C++ Programming Language
>> Effective C++
>
>In quite a bit less time.
Accelerated C++ is 319 pages long, and covers the important aspects
of C++ (generic programming/STL, polymorphism) It doesn't take that
long to go through it.
OTOH, most students don't even see STL in their first year of C++
courses.
Instead, the instructors have them rolling their own gruesome
hack of a linked list class in some bastardised dialect of C++
that looks like C-with-iostreams. And often, the instructors and
textbooks can't get the linked list right.
>Students in CS should be weeded out ASAP. I had a BASIC-Visual Basic
We had a lot of people in the class I taught complaining that the
course went "too fast". Seemed awfully slow to me. A lot of the
students who come into these courses did college algebra in their
first semester, and these guys just aren't in the right intellectual
ballpark to be doing CS.
I agree that early weeding out is preferable. Delayed "weeding out" only
wastes everyones time. The most extreme example being people who can't
graduate because they can't pass college algebra. IMO, they should be
thrown out if they can't get a pass in college algebra in their first
year.
It wastes the students time because they are out of their depth, and it
wastes the limited resources of the school that could be better devoted
to those more competent.
>First year students, yes. But I began with BASIC, then VB, then Pascal, then
>C.
I was referring to first year students.
>Crashing the OS will, at the very least, make you set breakpoints as a
>matter of habit on code sections you're having trouble with. Can you do most
I'm not sure if you're fully aware of how much of a POS that Borland thing
is. It's not the executables that are taking the OS down, it's the IDE(!)
>of this stuff writing your own error handlers and using printf to see what's
>going on? Of course. I guess my days with VB spoiled me rotten, in that I
>like to see the workings of the beast in slow motion.
I don't need to worry about my OS crashing (-; If you're used to using
a debugger, then you'll obviously find that easy to do, and the IDEs
provide good debuggers. Linux is improving somewhat here, as more gdb
front ends are available (the main problem with gdb is its interface
IMO.)
Instead of just using printf(), I have a log class that assigns a
unique serial no. to each instance, and use this to track the life
cycle of all my objects. One can also overload operator new and
operator delete to provide debugging info (combined with object logging,
one can work out which objects aren't cleaned up).
>> If you believe that IDEs make beginners more productive, I'm going to
>> flatly contradict you and point out that I've taught courses and
>> watched students use IDEs and use emacs/gcc. There's not a substantial
>> difference.
>
>I agree, with one caveat. I could teach someone how to use a Borland C\C++
>compiler for learning C a whole lot faster than I could Emacs & Gcc. My God,
>Emacs is two courses in and of itself.
A usable subset of emacs can be learned somewhat quicker however. I
start them off by suggesting the tutorial (which takes about a half
hour) and I give them a .emacs file with reasonable defaults
(K&R style indent and syntax coloring on)
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: "ono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: you dumb. and lazy.
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:28:19 +0100
> You moron....
> Linux doesn't have any "DLL Hell", ignorant twit.
> Linux libraries are properly versioned, and successive versions of the
> same library can be kept on the same system without conflict.
And thats why linux suffers from bloat! Because every program comes with
it's own statically linked version of the same shit. MS at least tried to do
something.
But you're right, dll versioning (even with) COM fails sometimes (but NEVER
when you run MS only software).
ok! it's not never...... it's nearly never.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: i LOVE this- the auther is a genius
Date: 13 Jan 2001 16:37:54 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad C. Mulligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Actually the issue was how much Gates paid. It was billions how it was used
>> by those he gave it to is irrelevent.
> Ah, if that's the case, I can donate many more billions to a charity
> foundation of my own, provided it returns them to me so I can donate them
> again. Does it make me a big philanthropist?
Ah, someone else understands the business of philanthropy.
There are very many ways to do it, but the very smart ones only do it in ways
in which they increase their return.
=====.
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Good read from ZDnet
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:32:42 GMT
http://www.zdnet.com/enterprise/stories/main/0,10228,2673376,00.html
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "ono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:33:52 +0100
> WHAT?! Linux is totaly a Server OS. Notice how it comes with Apache (Web
> Server), SendMail (Mail Server), Wu-FTP (FTP Server), TelnetD (Telnet
> server), NameD (DNS Server), etc.. it's all about being a server.
> Windows is a workstation OS.. and that's about the extent of what I want
to
> use it for.
Did you know that windows2000 comes with iis5. It's not installed by
default, but you
have it running with 2 mouse-clicks (and NO REBOOT). You should try that
sometime.
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A salutary lesson about open source
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:49:39 +0000
Jan Johanson wrote:
>
> This is the type of backdoor that could not be found by simply bumping
> against a login prompt over and over brute force (at least not in this
> lifetime). Had it remained closed, no one would have just, wooops, found it
> ...
Doh!
Of course it can! You would make the perfect NSA target young mind.
------------------------------
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