Linux-Advocacy Digest #482, Volume #31 Mon, 15 Jan 01 11:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Didn't the Gartner group say don't move to W2K straight away (Perry Pip)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: More Linux woes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: One case where Linux has the edge ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Does Linux envy Microsoft? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: The Linux Show! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: The Linux Show! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why Hatred? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windows 2000 (T. Max Devlin)
Re: More Linux woes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Perry Pip)
Subject: Re: Didn't the Gartner group say don't move to W2K straight away
Date: 15 Jan 2001 15:11:36 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:49:17 -0600,
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Mig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:93tana$qau$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>
>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:9fns39.13o.ln@gd2zzx...
>> > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/16075.html
>> >
>> > This is a driver issue only, not a problem with Win2k (unless you count
>> > poor 3rd party drivers to be a problem with the OS, in which case Linux
>> > has even more problems there).
>> >
>> > The other point brought up in the article about lack of certified
>software
>> > is also a red herring. Software doesn't have to be certified to run
>> > flawlessly. I think most companies are simply waiting for Whistler to
>> > certify to save money.
>>
>> Weeeeellllll... so vendors dont even bother to release drivers for the
>"top
>> OS".. Uhh... did someone mention "tremendous learning curve" and "cost"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^
>> and "complex" and "availability" and "interobility problems"..
^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Why are you people so incapable of reading?
Why can't *you* read!!! It's obvious you didn't read the article at all:
"After extensive investigations we have learned that the reliability
of the network card drivers under the operating system we have been
using, Windows 2000, is known to be poor"
>There *ARE* drivers for it,
>they're just not good drivers. There's a difference between certifying your
>drivers and software and releasing it.
Poor reliability means they can't be certified. Yet the drivers worked
well under NT4. Now tell us some hardware where Linux kernel 2.4 has
broken drivers compared to 2.2.
Also:
"The fact is, there are significant (win 2K) interoperability problems with
other software"
Tell us where kernel 2.4 breaks applications compared to 2.2.
"with driver availability"
See above.
"not to mention the tremendous learning curve"
No tremendous learning curve switching from 2.2 to 2.4. Why such a
learning curve for those who migrate to Win2k.
"cost of change of implementating W2K"
No money out of my pocket for upgrading my Linux.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 16 Jan 2001 01:20:09 +1100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>But it is true. If Gates released an OS with the basic "gotchas'" that
>you Penguinista's put up with on a regular basis, he would have been
>out of business years ago.
Please name 3 "gotchas" I put up with on a regular basis. Then we can
talk. Making empty allegations serves no purpose.
Bernie
--
Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate
John F. Kennedy
US President 1961-63
Inaugural address, 20 January 1961
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 16 Jan 2001 01:22:06 +1100
"Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Linux has no quality software.
Could have fooled me. Oh well --- what *does*, then?
Bernie
--
One man's wage increase is another man's price increase
Harold Wilson
British Prime Minister 1964-70 and 1974-76
In a speech at Blackburn, 8 January 1970
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 16 Jan 2001 01:36:38 +1100
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>I should not need to get help - I ran the installation as I did before.
>That should work, shouldn't it?
Yes. But life doesn't always operate on "should"....
The nice thing about trouble with Linux is that one can usually find
a rational explanation for it. In the case of network trouble, a first
step would be to look at the routing tables ("route -n"). Then ping
either machine from the other, check whether the hub flashes in either
case. Also check (with ifconfig) whether the RX and/or TX counters for
the network interfaces go up. If you can't get through with ping,
you might want to try traceroute, although that's really more for slightly
more complicated networks. Have a look in /proc/interrupts for whether
interrupts arrive for the network card. Have a look in /var/log/messages
for any network-related messages.
Of course, the first thing to do is to double-check (and then double-check
again ;) that your hardware setup can actually work. If you have a dual speed
hub and use both 10 and 100MBit cards, make sure the hub can handle it
(which means it is actually two hubs connected by a bridge). Many cheap ones
can't.
Basically, poke away at the problem, collect clues, and then let further
investigation be guided by those clues.
Did I mention how bloody annoying some other OSs are in similar circumstances?
The one that puked all over its routing table and then wouldn't even allow
me to manually clean it up comes to mind....
Bernie
--
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything
E.J. Phelps
American diplomat
London, 24 January 1889
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 16 Jan 2001 01:43:53 +1100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>I can add a network printer under Win2k by clicking on Add a
>printer->Network Printer->Browse and then double click on the printer
>I would like to add and that is it. It works. It works in color, B+W
>and all of the features I paid for (multiple trays and such) work.
>It does not get any easier than that.
Always assuming that your *client* machine has the correct driver
for that printer installed. Which can be a real pita, because quite
often your printer manufcaturer might only have provided drivers for
a small set of OSs, and while the machine it is connected to might
run such an OS, not all of the machines on the network will.
>For me, I prefer applications and Linux dies in that respect as far as
>my needs are concerned.
Then why the heck are you even trying to install it? Why are you
wasting your time, so much so that afterwards you feel bitter and
need to vent? Why not, instead, grab the sunscreen or the tobogan(sp?),
depending on which hemisphere you live in, and have some fun?
Bernie
--
I have been underestimated for decades. I have done very well that way
Helmut Kohl
German Chancellor since 1982
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: More Linux woes
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 16 Jan 2001 01:56:13 +1100
"Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>So, the question remains, how DOES he get DAE mode disabled, and revert back
>to "regular" mode?
In order to answer that question, the flounder would have to go from
vague generalities to actual specifics --- like which program he was
actually using to play the audio CD. Anybody volunteering to hold their
breath?
Bernie
--
Never offend people with style when you can offend them with
substance.
Sam Brown
Washington Post, 26 January 1977
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: One case where Linux has the edge
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:21:35 GMT
On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:41:45 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bones)
wrote:
>Try the free software at http://www.tridiavnc.com. I've only tested it as
>high as NT4/Win98, but it works great, (assuming that all your boxen are
>networked with IP.) Oops, its also open source, so I guess that disqualifies
>it for you.
I have nothing against free software as long as it is of decent
quality.
>[snip]
>
>Why does this keep coming up? There's a whole array of newsreader and
>spooler software out there. I've been using SLRN/SLRNpull for years, but I
>guess this frightens some because it is "curses-based" (e.g. regular old
>80cpl text, no posting in 72 pt. wingding font) and doesn't do messages in
>HTML. I can totally inundate my favorite newsgroups with the carefully
>crafted pro-Linux drivel of my choosing, and my shell scripts/cron daemon
>dutifully post it so all of you can roll your eyes at it.
You answered my question.
It's an abortion to have to do it that way.
I can change the properties of a group on the fly, back up and
download the last 30 messages in one group at the same time sampling
the headers in another group all the while retrieving just the headers
in one group, while the bodies are retrieved in the other groups.
And I can switch them all around real time.
Try that with a News reader and spool program.
Linux needs a decent reader that reads offline without all of the
headaches associated with a spooler.
pan is coming along but blows up too much to use seriously.
Knode is a nice reader but doesn't do offline news yet.
>[snip: Burning a CD thru telnet control]
>
>> Why would you want to?
>> Who mounts the CDROM for you (inserts the media into the burner)?
>
>His significant other has been instructed walk by the computer every twenty
>minutes and change discs if the drive activity LED is out (human crontab).
I'd rather have a decent browser than a remote controlled CD burner.
>No one has written software that satifies the needs of the "typical" desktop
>user. Those needs would be satisfied by something like that computer with
>only one button in that Dilbert cartoon. The populace at large won't be
>happy or productive with computers until there is just a single button to
>push that makes the computer do whatever task is desired with no further
>input. Even then, their management will probably send them to $1000/day
>seminars to learn how to use this software.
Windows seems to being doing quite nicely on the desktop.
>> I have seen it happen 100 times or more.
>
>Not fair, you can't count yourself more than once.
>
>
>
>----
>Bones
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Does Linux envy Microsoft?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:24:37 GMT
Have you ever actually USED Linux?
Try it first and then write your report.
On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:23:24 GMT, hackerbabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
>> Or were you just trolling?
>> --
>> http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
>>
>
>No, I'm actually writing a report about how Linux is a superior OS, in
>part because of the way it has evolved compared to Microsoft. I also
>wanted some information to counter tbe BS that supports MS as the best
>OS in the whole wide world.
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The Linux Show!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:25:45 GMT
On 15 Jan 2001 07:58:31 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
>
>I actually just tried to look at those on a windowsME box with
>internet explorer.
>
>It locked up and I had to powercycle the machine.
That's because it's YOUR Windows machine.
Works fine for me.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:26:23 GMT
Said Chad Myers in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:32:35
>"Giuliano Colla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=AKAMAIINT-11-15,212.133.25.128,212.
>133.25.159
>>
>> Maybe they know how to set up Linux!
>
>We've already gone over how the netcraft uptime numbers range from untrustable to
>completely wrong, so that doesn't mean anything.
Chad, we try to remain rational, civilized, and calm, despite the fact
that this is an advocacy group, but there really is no way to avoid
pointing out that you are lying, purposefully, knowingly, brazenly, and
pathetically. You, sir, are a dishonest sorry sack of shit.
So far, the netcraft uptime numbers range from entirely accurate, to
unrefuted.
Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
>How come Linux doesn't lead in anything? Security infrastructure, performance,
>stability, scalability, transaction processing, etc?
Because its difficult to get people to right up how it 'leads', since it
isn't a single product, but merely a code-base used by a number of
different producers. In fact, it leads at all of these things,
certainly years ahead of W2K in all these categories, and many more. To
even pretend to compare the two is ludicrous; Microsoft's crapware can't
even stay up long enough for a valid test!
>On every major list
>of each of these (www.tpc.org comes to mind, TPSEC for security comes to mind,
>etc) Linux is never even on the list?
And this, also, has been explained to you on several occasions, you
pathetic sock puppet, you.
>Because it can't compete with the big boys.
Because the big boys can't compete with it; even without chasing after
meaningless certifications or benchmarks, Linux is taking over the
industry. Apparently, there's not a damn thing you can do about it, so
you are trying desperately to lie often enough and long enough that you
can maintain your delusion for just a little while longer....
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The Linux Show!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:30:02 GMT
On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:23:28 GMT, J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What did you expect from windows?
>
>BTW I just went there with Netscape and its all good....
>
>The show link works with either mpg123 or xmms -
You were able to view the trailers in QT4 format under Linux?
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Hatred?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:46:43 GMT
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 15 Jan 2001
>"Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:93u2n6$9ce$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> : Sure, show me a single counter-example of Linux displacing every copy of
>> : Windows on every desktop of the world.
>>
>> At least you could *pretend* to know basic logic. Replacing all
>> of them is not necessary to make your claim false. Do you know what
>> the word "can" actually means? It doesn't have to imply "likely".
>> Linux *CAN* replace Windows, but it isn't *LIKELY*. Can you see
>> the difference?
>
>Fine, I'll reword it just for you. Linux cannot replace Windows as the
>major OS of choice today.
>
>Happy?
Hardly; Windows isn't an OS (do you mean WinDOS, or NT/2K, or perhaps
CE?) and it certainly isn't the major OS "of choice", since the only
reason most people use it is that they haven't any choice.
Perhaps you meant "Linux cannot become as popular as Windows", but that
presumes that it would have to displace Windows to be as popular as
Windows, when all it really needs to do is become as popular as Windows,
and Windows itself might very well remain just as possible while this
would still be true.
But now we're getting back to logic, and we know how poor your logic
skills are, so I'm not sure if you'll be able to understand that.
[...]
>> Okay, so what you said was a totally pointless statement because it
>> would have been true for any two things you pick, thanks for
>> clearing that up. Using words the way tou did, "The automobile
>> cannot replace the horse and buggy" - Why? well there still exist
>> some horse & buggies out there used by the Amish, and apparently
>> by your logic unless each and every horse and buggy is going to be
>> replaced by an automobile, it's okay to say it "cannot" happen.
>
>It has happened, Buggies are such a tiny minority today that they are
>statistically inconsequential.
What happened to "each and every"? What is the threshold of
'statistical consequence' you are using, and why did you pick that
particular point? Being so inexperienced with logic, I suspect that you
might also be inexperienced with statistics, and not understand that if
you can't calculate the standard deviation, at the very least, then you
can't go proclaiming what is or is not 'statistically inconsequential'.
>But, thanks for proving my point. Since there is no plural for Linux or
>Windows, your phrasing used here is identical to my original phrasing.
Ah, now I see. It is *abstractions* which you're really having trouble
with. Using 'Linux' or 'Windows' in a more abstract way, you're saying
that the conceptual "Linux" cannot replace the conceptual "Windows" in
all its regards. Since Linux cannot ever be an illegal monopoly, I
guess, in the end, we must agree.
Linux can never replace Windows, because it is not monopoly crapware.
If being monopoly crapware is part of your requirements (we know it is
for you and Chad Myers, at least) then you shouldn't even try to replace
Windows with Linux, since you'll be disappointed. For everyone else, of
course, Linux is a far superior alternative, now, and in the future.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:50:08 GMT
Said Karel Jansens in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 15 Jan 2001 \
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
[...]
>As a sidenote, I believe both Excel and Word (1) entered the Windows
>scene at about the same time: the same magazine had a review of Word as
>well.
Perhaps they entered the Macintosh scene near the same time. But Word
for Windows 1.0 was released in tandem with Windows 3.0; any review of
Word from before that was Word for DOS, which got to (briefly) 5.0
before Word for Windows replaced it.
I enjoyed your post; thanks.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: More Linux woes
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:00:34 GMT
On 16 Jan 2001 01:56:13 +1100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>In order to answer that question, the flounder would have to go from
>vague generalities to actual specifics --- like which program he was
>actually using to play the audio CD. Anybody volunteering to hold their
>breath?
Acer 40x generic IDE player.
SBlive card with Digital I/O board (which is useless under Linsux BTW)
ANY LINUX CD PLAYER PROGRAM, pick one.
Like I have said for the 10th time, it does not matter what program is
used. xmms, kcd or that other one whose name escapes me.
It does not matter which prgram is used, play an audio cd and it is
running in digital extraction mode (ie:there is no cable connected
between the drive and the soundcard.) and this slows things down quite
a bit.
So, how do I turn it off, specifically?
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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