Linux-Advocacy Digest #482, Volume #32 Mon, 26 Feb 01 00:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/ (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/ (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: State of linux distros (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (Brent Pathakis)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Hilter Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/ (Tim Hanson)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (T. Max Devlin)
Re: RTFM at M$ (.)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:32:24 -0500
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "B'ichela"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:26:35 +0000, Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>Well, in the UK, we get 3000W out of a standard socket. You can also get
> >>cookeer and heater sockets which provide 30A. Why not keep the main
> >>computer in the utility room with the other high power stuff?
> > Here is the U.S we also have Electric range (cooker) outlets
> > that can provide up to 50A power capacities. As well as Electric Dryer
> > connections that provide 30A capacity. As for storing the computer in
> > the utility room... Neat idea! only thing is the issue of environmental
> > concerns such as dust! A dryer is a hell of a lint producer. If yoru
> > dryer is vented to the outside you still get LINT!
>
> I hadn't thought of that since we almost never use the drier. Once in the
> utility room, you could make the computer case quite a bit bigger and
> have one side of it (the outside) as an aluminium fan heat sink. That
> way, it could keep cool from natural of forced concevtion on the outside,
> eliminating the need for a fan sucking dust inside. And you could put one
> helluva fan on the outside :-)
Just use a some tubing to duct in cleaner air.
>
> > Todays computers have
> > more fans that most heating systems! ;) Not only do these fans gladly
> > suck up dust and lint. There also is NO filters on these!
>
> > BTW the average Electric Range and Dryer service is 208VAC
> > therefore you can guess the watts. Need more? hardwire the computer to
> > the fusebox!
>
> I'm not familiar with VAC.
>
> VA == W for resistive loads and VAR is the geometric difference between
> VA and W (in that VAR=|W+ jVAR| )
>
> Out house at home has a 100A fuse coming in from outside. And a 60A fuse
That's one hell of an outhouse!
> in the circuit breaker. We could get 24,000 W out of that. If we really
> needed more, we could get 3-pahse installed in out house, giving use 415V.
>
> -Ed
>
>
> --
> | u98ejr
> | @
> Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
> | .ac.uk
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 04:33:48 GMT
Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
[...]
>> All of these things (floppy drive, disks, case, power supply, and a good
>> video card) COMBINED cost less than the price of a single copy of Windows
>> ME. Looks like you lose...
>
>Funny, I can't find all those things combined for $35
Nor can you find ME for $35, list price. What is it, $89.99?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:34:06 -0500
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Edward Rosten wrote:
> >>
> >> >> I can. Starting from the home computers of the early 80's, the
> >> >> amount of power required has steadily increased. Bear in mind, thet
> >> >> the faster you want to switch a silicon junctio, the more power you
> >> >> need to switch it.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Particularly for CMOS.
> >>
> >> And Bipolar. You have junction capacitance in the CMOS transistor and
> >> charge stored in the base to drive it in to saturation in the bipolar
> >> case.
> >
> > No. Bipolar consumes significant amounts of current even when not
> > switching.
>
> Yes. The base charge must be removed, or put back to switch a transistor.
For Field Effect Transistors (PMOS and NMOS, which together make CMOS),
yes. There is no "base charge" for bipolar junction transistors.
> In both systems you have to shove charge about the place. The more faster
> you want to do this, the more power you need.
>
> -Ed
>
> --
> | u98ejr
> | @
> Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
> | .ac.uk
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: State of linux distros
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:34:41 -0500
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Reefer wrote:
> >>
> >> "Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i meddelandet
> >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >
> >> > Spot the stupidity.
> >>
> >> That would be u, using a early 70:s OS like Linsux....
> >
> > Strange how every MODERN operating system keeps taking ideas wholesale
> > from Unix.
> >
> > And the only ones that are successful are those that implement the ideas
> > the same as on Unix.
> >
> > This is why Mafia$oft products fail.
> >
>
> Don't forget that 'doze is slowly becoming a UNIX. ( or trying to). I't
> now at the stage that UNIX was in in the 80's.
Not even....plus it STILL has all of that baggage from DOS.
>
> -Ed
>
> --
> | u98ejr
> | @
> Share, and enjoy. | eng.ox
> | .ac.uk
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 04:37:23 GMT
Said Masha Ku'Inanna in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
>> > Many components have gone UP in price. The GeForce 3 video card
>> > will cost $599,
>>
>> Yes, it will cost $500-600 when it is initially released. Considering this
>> thing has like 4 times the number of transistors as a pentium 4, I'd say
>> it's understandable. Wait about 4 months and the gf3 will cost $299 or
>> less. Nvidia is on a 6-month release schedule: new card design EVERY six
>> months. A geforce sdr, which is now 5 generations old (sdr, ddr, gts, gts
>> ultra, gf3) is still an *AWESOME* card for playing Quake3, and it will set
>> you back about $70. Keep in mind this is for a card which will push over 60
>> frames per second in 1024x768.
>>
>> > the GeForce 2 Ultra costs $499.
>
>Isn't that disgusting, though, when you consider that people will be pulled
>into the inevitable, "You're outdated in 6 months" mind-frame, so since
>you're stuff is no good, you've gotta buy the BRAND new version, for the
>same price you paid for the first one?
No, actually, its not "disgusting" at all; it's the way things ought to
be. The flashiest new hardware comes out at extravagant prices. Those
who value the particular advances in the newest hardware are more than
willing to pay the price. They finance production of the hardware,
which becomes commodity, dropping in price to the point where those who
don't place such a high priority on those advances can nonetheless
benefit from them, without spending much more.
It's like the whole friggen' world has forgotten how capitalism is
supposed to work, just because a monopolist managed to become the
richest man in the world before the government managed to work past his
"innovations" in how to break the law.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: Brent Pathakis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 04:38:50 GMT
T. Max Devlin wrote:
> Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
> [...]
> >> All of these things (floppy drive, disks, case, power supply, and a
> >> good video card) COMBINED cost less than the price of a single copy of
> >> Windows
> >> ME. Looks like you lose...
> >
> >Funny, I can't find all those things combined for $35
>
> Nor can you find ME for $35, list price. What is it, $89.99?
>
I think 89.99 would be the upgrade...from my understaning, the full version
is around 180.00 ...at least it was with win98.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 04:46:51 GMT
Said Donovan Rebbechi in alt.destroy.microsoft on 26 Feb 2001 00:51:21
>On Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:10:20 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>>"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>In fact I don't believe that computers have really dropped in price --
>what's true is that obsolete computers are cheap (but that's always been
>true)
I keep a glossy tacked to my bulletin board to provide me perspective in
this matter. It exemplifies the difficulty of determining what is value
and what is cheap, and even what is price, when considering such rapidly
changing technology.
The top of the line PC in the mid 1980s when this was produced had a CGA
graphics card, a wopping 64K of RAM (options up to 512K!) and *dual
floppies*. It cost $5000.
The OS was MS-DOS; we have no idea what the price to the OEM was, but
one would not hesitate for a moment to suggest that it was *less* than
an OEM pays for Windows today. But it was also possibly already caught
in the grip of the per-processsor agreements, as no other OS was an
option.
A moron like Funkenbusch would argue that later version of WinDOS (ME)
are obviously much "more software". Anybody else would realize that the
only thing that matters even a tiny bit is that Microsoft made just as
much from that sale as they do for the millions of ME licenses they're
desperately trying to pawn off on unsuspecting consumers, thanks to the
actions of the government and the open source movement, as well as the
inevitable fact that you can fool some of the people some of the time,
but only an idiot would find ME worth spitting on compared to Linux,
outside the application barrier.
>I doubt that there'd be a substantial difference between a moderately
>up to date machine today and yesterday's version of the same thing.
>
>All this of course completely ignores the fact that there's no reason
>why a drop in hardware prices (if it existed) would mean that there should
>be a corresponding drop in software prices.
Erik has the advantage on this one, to be sure. Hardware prices always
come down because production is a substantial cost. Software is almost
infinitely replicable; anything above $5 is monopoly pricing, or
packaged support services.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,demon.local
Subject: Re: Hilter Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:47:23 -0500
Matthias Warkus wrote:
>
> It was the Sat, 24 Feb 2001 03:02:08 -0500...
> ...and Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Sounds like Chevrolet and the Nova in Spanish-speaking countries
> >
> > NOVA = "no va"
> > no to go = doesn't go.
>
> Though often cited, this alleged debacle of the Chevy Nova is an urban
> legend. See snopes.com for more information.
I stand corrected.
>
> mawa
> --
> 7:30, Channel 5: The Bionic Dog (Action/Adventure)
> The Bionic Dog gets a hormonal short-circuit and violates the
> Mann Act with an interstate Greyhound bus.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: "meow" is yet another anonymous coward who does nothing
but write stupid nonsense about his intellectual superiors.
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 04:50:09 GMT
Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
>> [...]
>> >The article is based on a faulty premise. Since Windows 95 came out, not
>> >all components have come down in price in any significant way.
>>
>> A) What difference does it make when Win95 was released?
>
>Because, in general, when talking about monopoly we're talking post Windows
>3.1.
No, we're not. We're talking DOS 3.0; MS might have merely had market
power before that, though we must remember that even attempted
monopolization (as in MS's early ROM BASIC shenanigans) is illegal.
>> B) The article is not based on the premise that every single component
>> has come down in price, but that the OS should have, as very many others
>> have.
>
>The article states quite clearly that the *ONLY* component of a typical
>computer that has not come down significantly in price is the OS.
No, it *mentioned*, quite *colloquially*, that "every" component has
decrease in price save Windows. Picking it apart by trying to pretend
because it isn't rigorous enough speech for you is just plain trolling,
Erik.
>> Again, take your pick. I'm too tired of your sock-puppet trolling to
>> care.
>
>Getting too tired to support faulty premises? I can see that.
[...]
Too bored, because you don't have an argument.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Does anyone know how much computer power we have/
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 04:54:28 GMT
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
> Edward Rosten wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "B'ichela"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip> > VA and W (in that VAR=|W+ jVAR| )
> >
> > Out house at home has a 100A fuse coming in from outside. And a 60A fuse
>
> That's one hell of an outhouse!
>
Some people need an industrial strength pump. That's why they post
here. :)
--
The easiest way to figure the cost of living is to take your income and
add ten percent.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 04:55:50 GMT
Said Donovan Rebbechi in alt.destroy.microsoft on 26 Feb 2001 00:41:54
>On Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:13:29 GMT, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>Brent Pathakis wrote:
>
>>"PCs are becoming obsolete, you say? Wrong.
>>They're still selling in huge numbers, because
>>they're enormously useful devices whose
>>utility keeps expanding. The only component
>>in the average PC that hasn't come down
>>sharply in price is -- you guessed it --
>>the operating system.
>
>Why should the operating system go down in price ? Has it
>become cheaper to design and write operating systems ?
A consumer doesn't pay for what the producer plans to do in the future,
despite any pretenses to the contrary.
>Have PCs really gone down in price ? I paid about the same
>for the computer I wanted 5 years ago as I'd have to pay for
>the computer I want today. [...]
One can't really tell, actually, given that a primary component of a PC
is being monopolized. Though we might, despite the NDAs, arrive at some
understanding of what Windows 'price' is, and its proportion to a
typical PC, the fact is that the OS is such an integral component in a
computer that it would be almost impossible, without second-guessing, to
distinguish increase in value from decrease in cost, given the
tremendous (or stymied, depending on perspective) development in the PC
industry in the last five, or ten, or fifteen, or twenty years.
A really high end PC has always cost about five thousand dollars. But
ten years ago, there wasn't anything but high-end PCs, if you wanted
dual floppies.
I just bought an $1800 computer, which would have cost $100 more,
literally, if I wanted Windows on it.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: RTFM at M$
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:59:56 +1300
> > No, but the ping wont get through, which will indicate a problem with the
> > network, correctly so. This is why MS *shouldn't* be blocking pings.
>
> Huh? Why *should* they allow ICMP traffic?
To allow ping testing? It'd be useful for:
a) finding out if there's any chance MS's web server will be responding
to your requests (ie: the web server could be maxed out on requests, but
still answering pings... in this way, even though you get no site reply,
you can at least tell the site is capable of responding)
b) to test your OWN network, firewall rules, etc
[obviously I don't think MS specifically should allow pings so I can test
my network, but I do think everyone should allow pings for more or less
that reason]
> Exactly, and if someone wrote a web browser that did an ICMP check
> before going to a site, and if that browser became very popular, they
> might change their policy. As of now, though, the only reason to
> allow ICMP traffic through a DMZ is to let kiddies quickly map your
> network. (not to mention the fact that Microsoft has problems with
> coding good ICMP pakcets... ;)
Heh... I'm certainly not advocating every client do a ping to test
connectivity. Ping is there for humans to troubleshoot. If the client
was doing it for every request, it would just be stupid.
As far as I'm aware, there's no real reason not to let pings through to
your internet exposed hosts (unless you run a broken closed-source TCP/IP
stack that suddenly fails when it has to reassemble some packets).
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:00:52 GMT
Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 25 Feb 2001
>"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > Have PCs really gone down in price ? I paid about the same
>> > for the computer I wanted 5 years ago as I'd have to pay for
>> > the computer I want today. It's true that old hardware is
>> > cheap, but then, old software is cheap too (how much does
>> > Win 3.1 cost nowadays ?)
>>
>> That may be true, but the operating systems available 5 years ago are
>> fundamentally the same as those available today. Computers on the other hand
>> are over 100 times more powerful.
>
>Yes, and it's this performance issue that is what drives the cost of the
>older components down. OS's generally don't have huge performance increases
>across the board. You might get some better performance out of one or
>another portion, but nowhere near what hardware has done.
It performance issues that drive down the costs of the things he's
discussed, because that's what works for them. If there is no "huge
performance increases" in OSes, then there is some other reason to buy a
new one. The fact is, there is not the normal "economies of scale"
which make physical production of hardware cheaper, because software is
already 0 cost. (As RMS says, quite rightly, "Software wants to be
free.")
Without that "now that its popular its less expensive to make" issue,
software vendors are forced to base their business models on more
dubious 'economies', such as "well, once you've got 10,000 support
calls, you should be able to handle 100,000". All it really comes down
to is a lot of people making dishonest profit and not providing value,
but profiteering.
>> > Besides doubts about the assumptions of the argument, the logic
>> > is equally absurd -- why *should* software become cheaper ?
>> > Are they saying that it should get cheaper because hardware
>> > is cheaper ? If that's the case, why not complain that milk isn't
>> > getting cheaper ?
>>
>> Incremental improvements are far cheaper than initial developments. So "next
>> versions" should be cheaper than new versions.
>
>MS still spends 100's of millions and even multiple billions on R&D, even
>for incremental improvements.
They make a lot more than they spend, though, don't they?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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