Linux-Advocacy Digest #505, Volume #31 Tue, 16 Jan 01 09:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: The Server Saga (Ketil Z Malde)
Re: OS-X GUI on Linux? (.)
Re: KDE Hell (Roberto Alsina)
Re: KDE Hell (Roberto Alsina)
Re: KDE Hell (Roberto Alsina)
Re: KDE Hell (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel (Pete Goodwin)
Re: The Server Saga (Pete Goodwin)
Re: KDE Hell (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Help Me! The beast is taking over!!!!! (Bartek Kostrzewa)
Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel (Pete Goodwin)
Re: KDE Hell (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel ("Tom Wilson")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: The Server Saga
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:18:05 GMT
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> I think you - if you wish to administrate systems - need to know how
>> things work under the hood. This is very true for Linux, and quite
>> true for the varieties of Windows as well.
> I don't think this is so true of Windows, even Windows 2000.
I wish it were so, but I get tons of phone calls from various family
that serves as a reminder that it isn't always so simple. Rebooting
is all too common, and occasionally reinstalling everything.
What's important for me, is that the Unix model is much simpler than
the assorted Windows models. It is almost always possible to find out
the exact cause of any problem, and consequently, good Unix admins
hardly ever need to reboot their systems.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: OS-X GUI on Linux?
Date: 16 Jan 2001 13:19:07 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 16 Jan 2001 06:42:31 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> On 14 Jan 2001 22:06:56 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>>> On 14 Jan 2001 21:04:49 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:18:21 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>>>>>>>> Here is a question for all us Linux people.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If Apple made the OS-X GUI GPL, and worked with RedHat, S.u.S.E, and
>>>>>>>>> others to get it installable on various linux distributions, would you
>>>>>>>>> consider it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The problem is that X is so entrenched in Linux that it would be damn near
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The bulk of what constitues Apple NeXTstep is already
>>>>>>> running on top of X courtesy of GNU and has been for
>>>>>>> awhile now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The bulk of what constituted NeXTStep was display postscript, and is not
>>>>>>running on linux at all.
>>>>
>>>>> ...DPS has been running under Linux/GNU for at least 2 years.
>>>>
>>>>Indeed; I was quite incorrect.
>>>>
>>>>Except that its much, much better under OpenStep/OSX. :)
>>
>>> GNUstep is OpenStep.
>>
>>Not in anyones wildest, wildest dreams.
> OpenStep is a publically documented specification.
Actually, OpenStep started out as an operating system, and then became sort of a
GUI+apps overlay for Solaris. It never made it to any other platform.
While GNUStep may have alot in common with OpenStep, it is not the same thing
at all.
=====.
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:17:30 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Said Kyle Jacobs in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:56:24
> GMT;
> >You Linsux zealots are going to hammer this one till someone literally kills
> >themselves, aren't you.
> >
> >Yea, some dork got a cameo in some movie that'll be on Video cassette before
> >you can say "The New York times said..."
> >
> >Sort of like Linux.
> >
> >"Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> [...]
> >> You know, there is a linux desktop guy doing a cameo in one of the most
> >> recent Hollywood big budget movies. Hint, it ain't Matthias Ettrich!
>
> Well, if it was enough to get Kyle to squeal, I must presume that its
> none other than Linus Torvalds.
Actually, no, he isn't.
> So what's the movie?
Antitrust. And I must say Kyle is right, it doesn't seem to be too much
of a movie.
--
Roberto Alsina
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:23:06 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Said Roberto Alsina in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 15 Jan 2001
> [...]
> >So, you don't just want apps to do your job, you want two competing
> >ones for each task, so you can hesitate. And we are supposed to
> >provide?
>
> Forgive me, but I think you are having problems with English again.
Wouldn't be the first time, but at least I have a good excuse.
> The word you wanted was "compare", not "hesitate".
Actually, no, that's not what I wanted. You specifically said you were
afraid of KDE apps being "convincing". If you don't want to be
convinced by one app, you want to doubt. If you are doubting, you are
hesitating, AFAICS.
> >Excuse me if I find the necessity a bit less than urgent.
>
> I'm not worried about you, but your boss, who's going to tell you what
> to write so that he can sell it to me.
You still seem to believe someone is paying me to code, despite
all the data I have provided you to the contrary, including
my job description at my employer. Is it some sort of hysteric
blindness?
--
Roberto Alsina
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:28:03 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Said Roberto Alsina in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 15 Jan 2001
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> [...]
> >> You haven't a clue of the subject as a whole. Then again, neither does
> >> Roberto; he trumpets KDE because he's a big fan who stands to profit
> >> from the deal.
> >
> >Excuse me, but are you saying I don't have a clue about the subject of
> >linux desktops?
>
> No, I'm saying you don't have a clue about why KDE is a worthless
> piece of shit unless there are other [interoperable and compatible]
> replacements for it.
Indeed, I have no clue about that, since it seems false to me.
If something is only worthy and unlike shit if it can be replaced,
then innovation is the production of worthless shit. Seems stupid
to me, but then again, it's you who is saying it, so that should
not be surprising.
> >That would be such a funny thing to say!
>
> Ha ha.
He he.
> >And are we going to go back to that old argument about who pays me to
> >do what? Give it up, noone pays me any money because of KDE, except in
> >an indirect way (my KDE work is in my curriculum vitae, after all!)
>
> That's what I said; you stand to profit on the deal (the widespread
> adoption of KDE.)
You said much more than that, but hey, you are an idiot.
> And I know you'd be the first to point out that
> nobody can possibly be unbiased and objective, so you won't even try.
Since I don't expect anyone to be unbiased, everyone's opinion is worth
something.
> Therefore, your opinion on KDE versus anything else is pretty much
> worthless.
Actually, my biased opinion about KDE, compared with someone else's
biased opinion about KDE and alternatives, is pretty much as valuable
as opinions get in this matter.
> Nothing personal.
You do have a personal problem. Of the mental persuasion.
> Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
No problem.
--
Roberto Alsina
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:30:30 GMT
In article <PSR86.79728$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Antitrust.
What has MS been declared guilty of?
What is this, Jeopardy? Did I give the answer correctly in
form of a question?
--
Roberto Alsina
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:34:56 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Aaron Ginn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The install program asked you if you wanted to do a server install.
> You ignored it. When you do things like that, expect some kind of
> trouble.
What I don't expect is when I keep choosing similar installation options
I get different results.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com
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------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Server Saga
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:30:24 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> *I* think it should give you a "connection refused" message.
>
> You did check the permissions on /usr/bin/telnet (or wherever it
> resides, try "which telnet"), didn't you?
This was telnet on a machine that worked previously. Plus I could telnet
into this machine, but not the other one.
> If that seems okay (i.e. executable and all) try running it without
> specifying any hostname. Does that work?
Too late, the server has been installed as WinME.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:34:56 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Said Roberto Alsina in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 15 Jan 2001
> 16:42:13 GMT;
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> Said Roberto Alsina in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri, 12 Jan 2001
> >> 18:11:30 GMT;
> >> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> >> Said Donovan Rebbechi in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 8 Jan 2001 21:10:41
> >> >> GMT;
> >> >> >On Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:35:45 GMT, T. Max Devlin wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>KDE, KDE, KDE. Its all I hear about any more. Why do I hear so much
> >> >> >>about KDE?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Because it's at the core of several Linux GUI applications (the only
> >> >> >thing that comes close is GNOME which you probably hear even more about)
> >> >>
> >> >> That's my point; I don't. All I hear about is KDE and Konquerer and
> >> >> kthis and kthat. I haven't heard a single thing about GNOME for months.
> >> >
> >> >That rock you live under must gather moss at a quick pace.
> >>
> >> No, you're mistaken again, Roberto. I've been looking around, and there
> >> are many more mentions of kde and k-apps. Perhaps its merely that they
> >> are so identifiable, branded, if you will, while GNOME users might well
> >> stick with more 'classic GNU' stuff.
> >
> >Well, our corporate image branding program is paying off, then!
>
> Be careful. The rules and awareness of just what is illegally
> anti-competitive and what is not in the software world is about to
> shift, pretty heavily.
Dammit, I forgot the rule about using sarcasm in front of the ignorant!
--
Roberto Alsina
Sent via Deja.com
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:50:22 +0100
From: Bartek Kostrzewa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help Me! The beast is taking over!!!!!
Martigan wrote:
> I can't stop it!!!! I picked up the disks and inserted them in my
> computer. After ranting and raving, cuz of hardware problems, I finally
> installed MD 7.2!!!! And it happened, I thought Windows was great, a little
> bloated, but great. I could live with a few blue screens here and there.
> But I thought my system was getting too old. I got a PIII 450 and 256 Meg
> Ram, GeForce, snd blstr. But something seemed wrong in Windows....
>
> Well after completing the install I decide to fiddle around, Open Office
> (just like Office 2k but better), Gimp (who needs Adobe!), xmms (so much for
> winamp), emacs(text editor from hell!). But the truth came out when I
> played an mpeg file! So much clearer, the sound was much better. I could
> not believe it, this had to be unreal, so I wanted to see how much this
> computer could take!
>
> I loaded three mpegs in one terminal; Gimp, open office, poker, and
> emacs on the other. AND everything was fine! A little jumpy on the mouse
> (duh! look at the stuff I was doing!) but I could hear the audio from all
> three mpegs!
>
> The only reason why I use windows now is to use the net, I have an
> unsupported ISDN and am waiting for ADSL. So...I don't mind the wait. Hell
> I even compiled my first Kernel (with help from Linux Mag and www.linux.com)
> and it worked, hell I even compiled 2.4 and it's running great!
>
> Well after I get my modem stuff done, I guess I'll just have to through
> away my Windose (dose of sh*T) and start programming for g++!
>
> I HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE!!!!! And it is Awesome!
Happy to hear that. I wish you good luck with the net connection... how
come that you have an unsupported card? Which one is it? For example my
Teles PCI uses the NetJet driver.. so you could maybe work around that?
--
Best regards,
Bartek Kostrzewa - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<<< http://technoage.web.lu >>>
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:38:10 GMT
In article <93v1tm$41b$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Basically, poke away at the problem, collect clues, and then let further
> investigation be guided by those clues.
Or scrap Linux and install WinME. That worked first time.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com
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------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:36:19 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert) wrote:
> No. The bit where you stand outside with your funnel in your
> nose and look up and pray to god for rain.
Which god would that be? Bill Gates?
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:41:46 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Said Roberto Alsina in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 15 Jan 2001
> 17:11:25 GMT;
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> No, most "beginner students" (new users, they're called) start out with
> >> shell scripts. There's no reason at all to launch yourself into
> >> compiled code for years to come. Not with stuff like perl and python
> >> around.
> >
> >Shell scripts != (Python or Perl).
>
> Read carefully: "...start out with shell scripts. There's no reason at
> all to launch yourself into compiled code for years to come. Not with
> stuff like perl and python..."
>
> I didn't say that perl or python were shell scripts.
I know. Perhaps I should explain things slowly to you.
a) Most beginner students these days start with some sort of
interpreted language. But not shell.
b) Since those interpreted languages are not shell scripts, your
statement about how 'most "beginner students" [...] start out with
shell scripts.' is a rotten fish. They don't.
c) Even if they did, they shouldn't. They should try python, or
Ruby, or some other VHLL, if possibly with some OO, but not dogmatic
about it.
> >If novices would learn through shell scripts, doom would be expected with
> >relief. Perl would suck, but not nearly as much. Python is a nice student's
> >language.
>
> You don't understand; you're a competent, educated, professional
> programmer.
Actually, I am not. I am some of those things, but I am not a
professional programmer (although I have been something like it
occasionally), and I am a competent programmer only in some quite
restricted sense. I am workmanlike. I must confess I am educated, but
not as a programmer.
> Your opinion is worthless, in this matter.
Well, I have been a teacher. My opinion on what's good for beginning
programmers has some value.
--
Roberto Alsina
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:58:36 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <IRK86.78029$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Except the problems found commonly in Mandrake are common (or relitively so)
> in OTHER distro's as well. It's a LINUX wide problem being so damn hard to
> configure, install software with, and just generally manage. Software
> companies ARE working on the problem, but damnit, what's the point in
> releasing version after version of nothing but minor bugfixes (or even major
> security holes) when the UNDERLYING problem still exists? Isn't this what
> you keep lambasting Microsoft for?
Yet more FUD and lies. Do you have no conscience at all?
> Really? Last I checked, Adobe still owned the rights to Photoshop. They
> COULD port Photoshop to the Linux/UNIX platform (and send The GIMP into The
> TOILET) in a heartbeat. But they don't want to. Hmm, it is that little
> liscense snafu involving opening up the source code to do so?
Once again FUD and downright lies as you know full well this is
not so. Is the source code for applixware, db2, wordperfect open?
You are really pathetic.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Mandrake 7.2 and the banana peel
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:02:03 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:941is1$ir7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <93v1tm$41b$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Basically, poke away at the problem, collect clues, and then let further
> > investigation be guided by those clues.
>
> Or scrap Linux and install WinME. That worked first time.
Oh for the love of God (not Bill Gates), don't do that!!!
If you insist on MS, at least install NT or 2K...
WinME is a TOY!
Come to think of it, maybe the yellow funnel would be a more dignified way
of dealing with the problem. <g>
All in fun, BTW...
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
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