Linux-Advocacy Digest #990, Volume #31 Mon, 5 Feb 01 15:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: KDE Hell
Re: Bill Gates and Michael Dell (Peter Ammon)
Re: Linux 64 bit and Windows 32 bit
Re: Linux is awful ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: NTFS Limitations (Steve Mading)
Re: Would linux hackers like an OpenS windows? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Bill Gates and Michael Dell ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: NTFS Limitations (Steve Mading)
Re: Aaron R Kulkis ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: The Wintrolls (Nils Zonneveld)
Re: Bill Gates and Michael Dell ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 19:40:27 -0000
On Sun, 04 Feb 2001 21:34:00 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat, 03 Feb
>2001 02:15:31 -0000;
>>On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 02:05:55 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>Said Jim Richardson in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 28 Jan 2001
>>>> T. Max Devlin, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>> [...]
>>>>>>Reno (via the various fed three letter agencies at the time) fired incendiary
>>>>>>rounds into a wooden structure, used CS gas with a flammable propellant,
>>>>>>refused to allow fireengines access to the church, and in general, lied and
>>>>>>missrepresented the situation from day one.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yea, right.
>>>>
>>>>Truth is truth, whether it makes you uncomfortable or not is irrelevent. The
>>>>feds lied about a drug lab (they later admitted it was a lie) about child abuse
>>>>(which is not even in the federal jurisdiction in the first place.) and about
>>>>the actions they took. There wasn't a single day of the siege that went by,
>>>>without the feds lieing about something.
>>>
>>>I get real skeptical when I hear stuff like that.
>>>
>>>There wasn't a single day of the siege that went by that the Branch
>>>Davidians shouldn't have turned themselves in and had their day in
>>>court. Instead, they committed suicide. And that makes the government
>>>the bad guy?
>>
>> Yup.
>>
>> IT'S THEIR JOB TO BE IN CONTROL.
>
>They were. From all I've seen, its most likely the religious nuts
>torched their own compound.
CS cannisters that are a fire hazzard certainly don't hurt
either.
If it weren't a government agency engaging in that sort of
behaivor, the perpetrators would have been held liable for
the fire damages.
>
>> They let things get out of control, therefore they failed.
>
>They waited patiently for WEEKS!!! While the religious nuts held their
>own children hostage!
Actually, they antagonized the seiged compound for weeks. They
also sent the Davidians remarkably mixed messages with some
feds acting conciliatory and others being inflammatory.
Either way, the Davidians posed no threat to the public as they
were being besieged. There was no compelling public interest to
forcing an end to the situation.
The only damage being done was to the reputation of federal
law enforcement agencies. That reputation is not more valuable
than innocent bystanders.
>
>> The cops that beat up King are guilty of the same sort of
>> professional malpractice. Innocents DIED because of their
>> machismo and incompetence.
>
>Or because of religious zealotry? Which seems more likely, and which
>seems more media hype? Ever heard of a guy called Occam?
Occam's razor supports my position better than it does yours
actually. Police are the essence of Zealotry. They make any
of us Zealots here look positively sensible by comparison.
>
>> They blundered strategically and tactically. This should
>> be apparent even if you view Koresh as the anti-christ.
>
>I view him as just yet another nut/flake. And a potentially dangerous
So? That doesn't excuse a bunch of FBI rejects for trying
to immitate the Untouchables. If they really wanted Koresh,
it simply wasn't necessary. Even if they wanted the entire
cabal, divide and conquer still makes remarkably more sense
strategically.
That option was open to them.
>one, considering he would not surrender to lawful government demands and
>was stockpiling weaponry.
>
>> The "untouchables" raided what was essentially a monastery
>> and most Americans didn't even blink.
>
>"Essentially a monastery"? I believe I have heard relatively reliable
>reports that Mr. Koresh thought himself to be Jesus, and was screwing
>girls in the compound as young as 13 years of age. Sounds like another
>nut/flake.
One man's flake is another man's pope.
[deletia]
Consider that the next time you see someone indulging
in ceremonial canabalism.
--
>> Yes. And the mailer should never hand off directly to a program
>> that allows the content to take control.
>
>Well most mailers can, so I guess they all suck too.
Yup.
Candy from strangers should be treated as such.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: Peter Ammon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Bill Gates and Michael Dell
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:43:35 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
G3 wrote:
>
> in article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter Ammon at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote on 2/5/01 1:24 PM:
>
> > You're wrong on Jobs. It was Atkinson and Tom Whitney who got Jobs to
> > go, at the urging of Raskin. In fact, Jobs had earlier refused to go
> > see Xerox. And a lot of the Mac had already been created, without Jobs'
> > knowing, before the historic visit.
> >
> > [snip the rest]
> >
> > -Peter
>
> I have at least two books I can quote if need be (Insanely Great, by Steve
> Levy, and Accidental Millionaire by, heck I forget his name)
I'm reading "Infinite Loop" by Michael Malone, and it specifically
mentions Insanely Great and Accidental Empires as being based on a false
story written up by Apple's PR department, and then proceeds to debunk
the myth. (If you like books detailing Apple's history, you'll enjoy
Infinite Loop...it's very well done and complete.)
I guess I shouldn't say that you're simply "wrong on Jobs." The visit
has turned into a legend, and we may never know for sure what actually
happened. But the book I mention has some good points as to why the
original explanation is implausible, and advances its own theory, which
I find to be much more likely.
[snip]
-Peter
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Linux 64 bit and Windows 32 bit
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 19:44:57 -0000
On Sun, 4 Feb 2001 19:20:26 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:95kpo4$k8s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> (Taken me some serious gutts to post in this emotionally charged
>> forum. But love every bit of it. Hope Linux survives!)
>>
>> My questions:
>> 1) I've heard that linux (latest kernel) is 64 bit operating system?
>> Is this true? How does this compare with Windows 2000 x-bit (please
>> don't say 2-bit, though it may be tempting!)?
>>
>> How does one test this? (whether an operating system is 64 bit or 32
>> bit?)
>
>Linux is 32 bit on 32 bit hardware. It's 64 bit on 64 bit hardware (ie, on
>standard PC's, Linux is 32 bit. On Alpha processors, 64 bit SPARC, 64 bit
>MIPS, or the upcoming Itanium processor, it's 64 bit)
...and you can buy workstations and servers TODAY that will
allow you to run Linux as a 64bit operating system. 64bit
Linux has been doing production work for some time, including
special effects rendering for Titanic.
[deletia]
--
Section 8. The Congress shall have power...
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for
limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their
respective writings and discoveries;
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 19:49:00 GMT
On 5 Feb 2001 17:45:55 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.) wrote:
>YOU trashed your entire system, because you dont understand linux.
Following instructions from Mandrake to the letter.
Insert update CD from Mandrake.
Select Live Update from Drakconf.
System goes through it's paces for about 10 minutes.
Next restart, nothing works.
What needs to be understood here?
>Hey claire, just for the sake of argument, try installing FreeBSD 4.2.
>It has full USB support, etc. Id love to see what happens when you
>attempt to install another flavor of UNIX.
AIX is a piece of cake to install on an SP/2, including Perspectives
and pssp code.
Couldn't be easier using SMIT.
>
>
>
>-----.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations
Date: 5 Feb 2001 19:40:45 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Said Steve Mading in alt.destroy.microsoft on 1 Feb 2001 23:33:10 GMT;
: [...]
:>Actually, the reason is too much reliance on higher-level things
:>being done in kernel space (kernel code runs with absolutely no
:>safety net, so it needs to be kept to a minumum if you want
:>stability.) I fear the inclusion of lots of third-party closed
:>source driver modules from hardware vendors into Linux - will
:>it some day make it as flaky as the bad drivers in Windows make
:>it?
: I don't think so. Certainly the drivers themselves may be just as
: flakey, but even then, the OS is far more stable, and prevents one
: flakey driver from causing crashes to apps or other drivers.
: But you do raise a valid point. This is why so much spontaneous effort
: seems to go in to producing open source versions of any necessary
: drivers. You can't make a piece of hardware available and not have some
: Linux freak reverse engineer a driver for it; it simply can't be done.
: Often it takes time, though. In the end, trying to use hardware
: "incompatibilities" to control the market is doomed to failure, in a
: competitive free market, the fact that its worked so well in the
: monopolized world of Windows notwithstanding.
The problem is that hardware is always changing. There is always
a lag if the opensource people can't even begin development until
after the card is out in the marketplace. This is an unfair advantage
Windows has in drivers - Windows drivers get developed before the
hardware is out on the shelves, opensource drivers get develeoped
after the hardware is on the sheleves and some developer can get his
hands on it.
The Windows way is much faster, having the vendor supply his own
drivers with the product, but it's also much less stable. I'm
not sure where the best compramise lays. The opensource
community-provided driver model wouldn't work if we lived in a
world where there was not some big closed-source OS to drive
initial sales of the hardware when it comes out. If we'd like
to move to a world where Linux is commonplace, something has to be
done to make the drivers start getting developed *before* the
hardware is on the shelves. I'm not sure how to do that without
just trusting the vendors to do it themselves.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Would linux hackers like an OpenS windows?
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:52:10 -0500
gswork wrote:
>
> Out of interest, having spent time time hacking Linux would coders love
> to see the behemoth code that lies underneath Windows?
>
> It would be fascinating would it not? Some of it is probably pretty
^^^^^^^^^^^
You misspelled "laughable"
[Ever see Microsoft source code??? Most of it, even college sophomores
would be ashamed to sign their name to. No wonder Gates doesn't want
anybody to see it.]
> good stuff. Imagine having windows as open source.
>
> Ideally- what would you do?
>
> I'd keep much of the 'friendlyness' in point n click, but have a much
> stronger command line to enable true 'dual command'. Naturally its
> security would need beefing up seriously. A total rebuild and
> consolidation of the endless bits of dll and other support files would
> tidy it up too. The tone of windows would change from 'arms length
> nannying' to 'professional flexible interface'.
>
> hmmm.
>
> Or is that what the open OS's are becoming anyway !
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Bill Gates and Michael Dell
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:55:43 -0500
Sandman wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > Dear doofus...insisting that EVERYTHING be done through a GUI is
> > > > stupid.
> > >
> > > Sure.
> > >
> > > > Ever try batch-processing 200 files with a GUI?
> > >
> > > Absolutely.
> > >
> > > > Hint fucking hint...you can't...unless you like spending your time
> > > > pointing and clicking through 200 seperate files.
> > >
> > > Or highlighting 200 files, and choosing "label" from the menu to batch
> > > process them, or choosing "Convert more..." in Graphic Converter to batch
> > > process 200 files from jpeg to gif? Or choosing "Rename..." from the
> > > contextual menu for 200 files and batch rename them with search and
> > > replace
> > > ".gif -> .jpg". Many many things are batch processed BETTER with a gui.
> > >
> > > > UGH!
> > >
> > > Yeah.
> > >
> > > > Your problem is, you have absolutely NO fucking idea how high-end
> > > > computing is done. And as long as you stay sucked up to the GUI,
> > > > like a baby on a nipple...you never will.
> > >
> > > Hehe, cute. :)
> > >
> > > > ANY command-line command can be given a GUI wrapper.
> > > >
> > > > If you find that you want a GUI wrapper for some command...then MAKE IT
> > > > and QUIT BITCHING, you pathetic waste of skin.
> > >
> > > You are a very intelligent young man, and I admire your social skills.
> >
> > Correct tools for the job.
>
> Unless it requires GUI, right?
I use a GUI...when it's needed.
>
> > In this case, it's called "Deluging liars and incompetants with the insults
> > they so richly deserve."
>
> Hence I was sarcastic about your social skills.
>
> --
> Sandman[.net]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:56:12 -0500
Fermin Sanchez wrote:
>
> Hi Aaron
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [...snip...]
>
> > Mind adjusting your lines to an appropriate length when you post URLS
> > of that length?
>
> What about your signature? Mind adjusting that?
It *IS* the appropriate length for the job (troll-be-gone duty).
>
> --
>
> With kind regards
> Fermin Sanchez
> MCSE+i, MCT
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations
Date: 5 Feb 2001 19:52:08 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: These don't take into the fact all of the Linux boxes that were compromised
: during the extensive DDoS attacks last fall. Entire university labs of
: Linux boxes were compromised and use in this manner.
Of course Unixen (like Linux) are used more as DOS attackers than
Windows boxes. That's because remote usability is actaully possible
in Unix. That's because a cracked Windows box isn't usable for
much of anything unless you can sit on the console, or you have a
really fast connection that can handle remote graphics and you have
time to install terminal services on it after you crack into it.
Once you crack a Unix box, you can actually *use* it from far away.
So basicly, you are comparing a feature that is sometimes exploited
in Unix (remote usability) with Windows that doesn't have that feature
at all, secure or not.
--
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Steven L. Mading at BioMagResBank (BMRB). UW-Madison
Programmer/Analyst/(acting SysAdmin) mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
B1108C, Biochem Addition / 433 Babcock Dr / Madison, WI 53706-1544
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Aaron R Kulkis
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:59:56 -0500
Dan Hinojosa wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, people like that who call people "fucking idiots" are
> going to drive a few people who would've been happy to support linux's in
> their workplace away. As an advocate, they don't understand that even
> courtesy counts. Like you said, "sad".
Are you implying that the stories of Chad Meyers, Pete Goodwin, Flatfish+++,
etc. do NOT paint pictures of complete fucking idiots who risk drowning
every time they take a bath?
>
> "--==<( Jeepster )>==--" wrote:
>
> > A very sad little boy who pretends to be a man with an important job.
> >
> > Nearly every post he makes he has to swear in.
> >
> > Sad.
> >
> > Still, I suppose it has to be so when Linux attracts mostly long hair
> > weirdos.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 20:40:59 +0100
From: Nils Zonneveld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Wintrolls
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
[SNIP]
> Finally, you have people like Goodwin, Flatty and EF who hate linux and
> seem to have is crashing the whole time and can't run software they want,
> yet they keep on using it. Why? No sane person would carry on using
> something if they had so many problems with it (usless it was forced on
> them).
>
> Just my £0.02
>
> -Ed
You'll have to admit that without our much appreciated Wintrolls, this
NG would be utterly boring. Besides that they have a point, not
confirming to the Windoze world is not making your live any easier. I
use a Mac, connected to my trustworthy Linux server and I've used my
electronic banking software on my Mac for years now. Last month though,
I discovered that my Mac client is no longer supported by my bank. Since
we are making the transition from Guilders to Euro's within a year, the
bank has decided to stop support for all programs that don't support the
Euro. They are refusing to make any other clients then windows clients,
because "the other market segments are too small". Unless I switch to
windows I'll be not able to continue electronic banking. I have
informed with other banks wether they support the Mac OS, or *NIX
platform, nada, zilch nothing, all M$ only. The wintrolls do have a
point here: M$ still has a monopoly.
Just my € 0,02
Nils
--
"Misschien is niets geheel waar, en zelfs dat niet"
Multatuli (Eduard Douwes Dekker) - Idee 1
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Bill Gates and Michael Dell
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:03:54 -0500
"Billy White Jr." wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, G3
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > in article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Aaron R. Kulkis at
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote on 2/4/01 11:14 PM:
> >
> > >>> The only reason gates has succeeded is because Apple was dumb enough
> > >>> to fire
> > >>> Jobs. Now that Jobs is back he is once again proving there's only
> > >>> one
> > >>> company in the damn industry that can come up with a NEW idea.
> > >>
> > >> Hmmmm. Jobs is a God, but also a complete nutter, after he was ousted
> > >> at Apple they had their most profitable years.
> >
> > Mostly because he was ousted on the verge of Mac's taking off...
> >
> > >> Also, Jobs liked the
> > >> quotation:
> > >> "Good artists copy, great artists steal", and has admitted to stealing
> > >> good ideas for integration into their products.
> >
> > Apple usually "Finishes the Job" though. A lot of people say Mac OS
> > ripped
> > of Xerox. Baloney.
> >
> > 1: Mac OS did several things (direct object manipulation, window
> > overlapping) that PARC never got NEAR. Why? Because the Mac team saw
> > pictures of PARC and ASSUMED it could do them, thus knowing it could be
> > done they'd stop at nothing to accomplish it.
>
> Wrong. They saw a dog and pony show *AT* PARC, seeing the actual
> machines in use. They never saw code, but they saw working machines
> running the code. The work was similar to the computer Jeff Raskin
> envisioned, and Raskin used the meeting to sell Jobs on the concept, who
> was *against* the Mac, and the GUI concept, until the PARC demo. And
> several elements and concepts from Xerox's work appeared in the MAC GUI
> - if it was imitation or concurrent development is up for debate.
>
> Many at Xerox feel Apple ripped them off - some at Apple feel justified
> with what they did, and claim that they did'nt. Apple also paid for the
> demo, but it's unclear if there was an injunction implicit in the
> agreement for Apple not to use what they saw. Make your own judgement.
> Xerox did sue Apple, but they lost - clearly the judge thought Apple was
> innocent.
Most of the Mac code was written by former XEROX PARC employees who
left after Xerox headquarters treated them like expensive nuisances.
>
> > 2: By the end of it all the key people from PARC were on the Mac team
> > anyway.
>
> Yup.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
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