Linux-Advocacy Digest #130, Volume #32 Sun, 11 Feb 01 20:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Interesting article (Dave Martel)
Re: @@@@ I have fogotten my password help!!! @@@@@@@ (Peter
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: Interesting article (.)
Re: Answer this if you can... (Gregory Davis)
Re: Wy Linux will/is failing on the desktop (Bloody Viking)
Re: Linux reference distro ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Interesting article (.)
Re: Linux reference distro ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Answer this if you can... ("Spicerun")
Re: Laptop and linux. Which one??? ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: AARON R. KULKIS HAS NO LIFE AND ASSUMES NOBODY ELSE DOES EITHER ("Erik
Funkenbusch")
Re: How does this look? ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Peformance Test ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Interesting article ("David Brown")
Re: Linux reference distro ("Mart van de Wege")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dave Martel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:20:47 -0700
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:11:39 GMT, "Mike Byrns"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Linux implementations
>are by definition "amateur" as they are done as a pastime rather than as a
>profession.
Then what's it say about MS's so-called "professional" programmers,
that these "amateur" linux programmers stole 30% of MS's Server
market? <chortle!>
>If you could
>"until all available memory has been used" then you are doing two things
>wrong -- you've turned off virtual memory and your implementation caches
>everything in memory regardless of it's size instead of implementing a spool
>or diff file or using memory mapped files. Perhaps a call to
>GlobalMemoryStatusEx could be used to determine the right amount of cache
>:-) You also didn't specify what OS this is either, nor what allocation
>mechanism your implementation is using -- new/delete, malloc/free or the
>heap functions. In fact you've said nothing to make anyone who has done any
>serious Windows programming believe a word you've said let alone be able to
>blame the OS for your ineptitude.
>
*REAL* OS's aren't brought to their knees by an applications
programmer's ineptitude.
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: @@@@ I have fogotten my password help!!! @@@@@@@
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:15:58 +0100
Paul Morris wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
Well, which one?
Your Wintendo-thingy seems to run good enough not to crash
before you send this allimportant message.
Did you forget your root password for a linux machine?
Bad luck, I would say.
If you forgot it for a windows-install, there is always
that friendly pair FDisk and Format
--
Are you sure you REALLY want to read this with Netscape?
[ ] YES Go to the Microsoft site and download Internet Explorer
[ ] NO Go to the Microsoft site and download Internet Explorer
[ ] LOCK UP Crash Windows and soft reboot
[ ] BSOD Crash Windows and hard reboot
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:33:33 +1300
> I was exaggerating a bit. Quite a number of things I know about Windows
> crappines, I have learned from an MS certified guy. He knows a lot about
> computing, and because of that, and his knowledge of MS he usually
> suggest NOT to use Windows, unless you're really forced to. But he would
> be ashamed to write MSCE besides his signature. If someone is not, then
> I'm afraid that my exaggeration holds true.
Fair enough... if someone's got it beside their name like they're proud
of it for some reason (Hey! Look at me, I passed a multi-choice memory
test) then they probably aren't in the same group as I mentioned below...
=)
> > I know MS certified people who know so much about computers and computing
> > it's not funny, but not a single one of them will attribute that massive
> > knowledge to the MCSE. The people who really know what they're talking
> > about know exactly what the MCSE is... a piece of cardboard that people
> > who should know better expect you to have.
>
------------------------------
From: Gregory Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Answer this if you can...
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:34:06 -0500
To sussecfully RPM something use the parameter -v for verbose. Example:
#rpm -v somepackage.rpm. There are also package managers for KDE, Gnome, and
they will work just about anywhere even if you don't have a certain window
manager. As for copy and paste: select text anywhere with the right mouse
button, and then click where you want to put it with the middle mouse
button. If you have no middle mouse button, you may have 3button emulation
by clicking both buttons.
Now for philosophy.
Windows is getting so user-friendly that it will soon run itself without any
input from a user. All you have to do to install a program is pop in a cd.
You often get little options, and a bloated "jack of all trades" kernel.
Most windows users don't even know what a kernel is, nor can they tailor it.
On the other hand, Linux is admittedly user hostile. You must really work
hard to get it working for you. For some (compsci people and students) the
reward for that hard work is often worth it. For the average user, the work
put in and the results yielded just don't warrant use. Which raises a
point: Is there a middle ground between suffocation by Windows and Linux
vagueness? I have yet to experiment with Mac or BeOS, but what is really
needed is something in between. Oops. I should shut up, before someone
catches on to my get-rich-quick scheme and beats me to the billions.
Greg
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Wy Linux will/is failing on the desktop
Date: 12 Feb 2001 00:35:19 GMT
Charlie Ebert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: I see he thinks it's a good workstation and 'excellent candidate'
: for a server. But in reality it's the other way around in the
: real world. But I did want to say I agree with you more than
: I do the actions of the real market. It's desktop value
: is grossly underrated by the populous.
For a minute consider the history of UNIX in general. When UNIX was invented
it was intended to be a big iron type of OS. Like any tool, an OS for big iron
isn't necessarily well suited for a desktop. X is a big help toward a desktop
with an OS otherwise better suited as a server OS.
Nobody would think that VMS, another big iron OS, would be a good desktop OS
apart from Microsoft with Windows NT. Similarly, a lot of people see UNIX in
the light of its history, and naturally scoff at a desktop version just as we
all scoff at a warmed over bug-infested version of VMS.
As our computers get more powerful, some as fast as the first Crays already, a
big iron style OS begins to make more sense. Interestingly, when I first heard
of Linux being a UNIX copycat, I loved the idea of a mainframe style OS on my
home computer. Add in the idea of free software, I was sold. Often, becuse
most people don't know about Linux, I tell people that I use UNIX at home and
they freak out. (: ("What, you don't use Windows???")
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux reference distro
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:43:58 -0600
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:966j1l$8s1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:3a868e12$0$20218@reader3...
> >> I work in financials, and as a Linux user (and onetime RH6.2
> >> user) I have been tracking RH on this very subject. For one,
> >> they just posted earnings well above expectations, and they've
> >> set their target for profitability as sometime this year (don't
> >> have the exact date here, and I'm too lazy to look it up).
>
> > Isn't it amazing that Red Hat's financials have suddenly picked up since
> > they decided to start releasing broken versions of their OS (RH 7) that
> > generate lots and lots of support incidents?
>
> You dont have the smallest idea of how many report incidents microsoft
> deals with every day.
Oh, I do. But MS is actively trying to reduce the number of incidents, Red
Hat seems to be trying to increase them (for obvious reasons, since they
make money on support calls, and this is where most of their revenue comes
from).
That wasn't a commentary on number of support calls, it was a commentary on
what I view to be Red Hat's policy to generate them.
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:37:24 +1300
> > > $uptime
> > > 5:31pm up 450 days, 22:56, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00
> > >
> >
> > That some individuals around here have molded this MS monstrosity into
> > their Golden Calf boggles the mind.
>
> That's a Linux server with 1 user and an average load of 0% CPU utilization.
>
> This is somehow "busier"? I could build a WinME box turn it on and never
> touch it and get that good of uptime too, that proves nothing.
Don't be such a gimp. (Or is that a chad?)
1 user currently logged in at 5:30pm (the person running the uptime
command). The 0.00 load averages is for the last 1, 5, and 15 minutes.
So the average load on the server between 5:15pm and 5:30pm was low...
this somehow makes you aware of how busy it gets during work hours?
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux reference distro
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:45:38 -0600
"J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:3a868e12$0$20218@reader3...
> > > I work in financials, and as a Linux user (and onetime RH6.2
> > > user) I have been tracking RH on this very subject. For one,
> > > they just posted earnings well above expectations, and they've
> > > set their target for profitability as sometime this year (don't
> > > have the exact date here, and I'm too lazy to look it up).
> >
> > Isn't it amazing that Red Hat's financials have suddenly picked up since
> > they decided to start releasing broken versions of their OS (RH 7) that
> > generate lots and lots of support incidents?
>
> What support incidents?
>
> I've been running 7.0 on several boxes and not a
> hint of trouble in sight, but a number of labor reducing
> enhancements.
You're going to sit there and tell me you're not the least bit aware of all
the issues surrounding Red Hat 7? You're not aware that Linux has stated
categorically that RH7 is severely broken?
------------------------------
From: "Spicerun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Answer this if you can...
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:38:01 GMT
In article <966ptv$q9r$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Mig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Just stick with Windows kid... you will be much happier with it.
>
You know, I think you hold the record for telling people to stick to
Windows for whatever reasons. I wonder why?
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Laptop and linux. Which one???
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:44:24 GMT
Hmm,
1 A typical Wintrol using an ISP, thats not only xenaphobic but have
extremely rude staff.
2 IBM think pad can be installed with Linux (and as I understand, all
hardware working perfectly).
3 I have never heard anyone on this group ever state that Linux supports
every piece of hardware flawlessly, and I have been reading and posting in
this group for several years.
4 Windows does not support every piece of hardware flawlessly, for example,
I had to wait 6 months for a driver for my onstream 30 gig tape drive, Linux
had the driver around the same time as their first driver.
5 Linux supports popular hardware by default. If you want to bitch to
someone about the poor hardware support, complain to the hardware vendors.
Matthew Gardiner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:10:17 +0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias
> Warkus) wrote:
>
>
> >The testers were surprised: XFree works on maximum colour depth and
> >resolution on nearly all machines, even the TV output usually works.
>
> Key word USUALLY.
>
>
> >On the Toshibas, even accelerated graphics are supported. Nearly all
> >machines use the Lucent WinModem chipset which works flawlessly after a
> >little kernel patch.
>
> Keyword NEARLY.
>
> Keyword PATCH.
>
>
> >Your best bet is the Acer or the Compaq, probably.
>
>
> Keyword, PROBABLY.
>
> >mawa
>
> I'll bet everyone of the machines ran Windows flawlessly, all features
> were able to be utilized to full capacity like they were designed to
> be.
>
> You'd think a Linux House Organ magazine like that would be smart
> enough to select FULLY supported models?
>
> Or maybe they just couldn't find any :(
>
>
> If I bought a laptop and upon reading the documentation included with
> it I saw words like:
>
> Probably.
> Nearly.
> Usually.
> Patch.
>
> I would start to wonder if I made the right choice.
>
> But, in the Linux world we are forced to sacrifice and do without all
> for the privilege of running the worlds finest OS.
>
>
>
>
>
> Flatfish
> Why do they call it a flatfish?
> Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: AARON R. KULKIS HAS NO LIFE AND ASSUMES NOBODY ELSE DOES EITHER
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:53:05 -0600
"Bloody Viking" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:966f3o$noo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Erik Funkenbusch ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> : Some people have lives outside of usenet.
>
> Answer the question.
I did answer it in another post, this response was to his idiotic
impatience.
Stop butting in when you don't know what's going on.
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How does this look?
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:49:15 GMT
I'd would wait for the dual processor Athlon, as this will not only be
cheaper, but also higher performance, hence you can drop the MX and get the
real GeForce.
Matthew Gardiner
"Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:966ugf$iom$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <966rhq$kil$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Pedro Duato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Redhat Linux 7.0
> >
> > I would not use this one ... now there are 200MB patches out.
> >
> I may not later, I have a copy so I figured I would start with it.
>
> > > ELSA GeForce II MX 32MB AGP
> >
> > Why this card for a server ?
>
> It's not for a server... Just a workstation.
> >
> > > Soundblaster 128 PCI
> >
> > Needed sound ?
> >
> >
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Peformance Test
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:59:04 -0600
"Mike Martinet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbush wrote:
> > You don't understand. This was an embedded version with a 16MB memory
> > footprint and no swapfile (it ran from CD-ROM).
> >
> > I could have installed sendmail or anything else (I no longer have
access to
> > this system), but can't any longer.
> >
>
> You're right, I don't understand. The 'test' required setting up mail
> servers on identical 486s using a Linux distro and (amended to) whatever
> software necessary to get W2k running.
>
> It was mostly a joke - I didn't think W2k would run AT ALL on a 486.
> You're telling me it can, but you have to use 3rd party software to
> shoehorn it in, but at the time, you didn't install Sendmail. So you
> didn't have a mail server. So what is your point?
>
> Are you telling me that you *can* configure W2k on a 486 with less than
> 32M of RAM and it will operate as a useful mail server?
Yes.
> I understand you don't have a machine to verify with, but please
> describe in detail how this is accomplished. I'm interested now.
I already told you, I used TargetDesigner to do so, this allows the
selection of virtually any subsystem for use. For instance, I removed the
GUI subsystem, Security subsystem, All the various management subsystems,
etc.. Then built a target for use in CD-ROM driven system with no hard
drive. All it would have taken was to add Sendmail to it, and it would have
worked fine, though I would have had to increase memory to handle the extra
load of Sendmail (since there was no swapfile) or I could have added a hard
drive to give it a swap file.
I have no idea how it would perform, since I don't know how well sendmail on
Windows performs.
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 01:43:21 +0100
Chad Myers wrote in message ...
>
>"David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:966q89$4ig$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> Paul 'Z' EwandeŽ wrote in message <9636hf$2397$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>> >
>> >Because they have a server OS [AIX] and would look like complete fools
if
>> >they didn't use it. AIX was beaten by the Win2K cluster, they could use
a
>> >Linux [or OS/2 for that matter] cluster [after all they have the bucks
to
>> >set up a Win2K one, and Linux is chearper right ?] to kill two birds
with
>> >one stone [humiliate both Compaq and Microsoft], but didn't.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Perhaps IBM uses their own systems because they are better for the job.
>> Even MS uses other people's systems if they can't avoid it (remember how
>> proud they were over using Unix to avoid getting viruses (or at least,
>> viruses that they did not write themselves) on their installation CD's?).
>
>I remember hearing rumors of this, but I don't remember seeing any
>concrete proof of it. Sounds like just another Penguinista make-believe
>story.
Just because you don't remember seeing proof, doesn't make something
"make-believe". It sounds like you've been listening to your hero's court
tactics - "I do not recall..."
The rumors come from Microsoft:
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q80/5/20.ASP
The page has been toned down to make Unix a passing reference, and to
include references to mythical Macintosh viruses to pretend that DOS and
Windows are in the same virus vulnerability class as MacOS. The original
page was more detailed, if I remember correctly (I am sure someone somewhere
has a copy on the net, if you can be bothered to dig hard enough) - I think
it mentioned using HP's UNIX, along with other information.
In case the reference was too obscure for you, by the way, the virus MS
distributed was the concept virus that came as part of some version of MS
Word.
>
>>
>> I remember reading somewhere that MS had around 80 IBM machines (AS/400,
I
>> think) in various places around the world, for general purpose business
use
>> (accounts, customer databases, whatever). They decided that it was an
>> embaressment that they needed to rely on other people's software, and so
>> installed 14,000 NT servers to do the same job (I am not wholly certain
of
>> the figures - hopefully someone else remembers the incident and can
confirm
>> or deny the details, or even provide a useful link or two).
Unfortuanately,
>> they could not get the system working properly, and had to re-install the
>> AS/400's.
>
>They used to use (and still have in some places) AS/400's because some of
>the software they use only runs on that platform. I never heard of them
>switching and then switching back, that sounds like more make-believe.
I note that you don't find it unrealistic that they swapped 80 AS/400's for
14,000 NT servers. I am afraid I can't find the original article, and I
can't remember enough exact quotations to be able to search for it, but I
believe it was an example given by an IBM guy explaining why big machines
are more popular than ever.
>
>MS didn't have and enterprise OS before about 4 years ago (until NT 4
>SP3 and later) so there was no software written for Windows that
>would help manage a corporation the size of Microsoft.
>
>However, when Windows 2000 Beta3 came out and SQL Server 7 was out,
>they migrated to SAP/R4, I believe, on Windows. They announced that
>they moved from their AS/400 which had previously been running their
>software (whether it was SAP I'm not sure). They run SAP on Windows
>2000 Advanced Server and SQL Server 2000 now. This information is
>easily found on their web site.
>
>-Chad
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux reference distro
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 01:42:22 +0100
In article <Qgwh6.235$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Erik Funkenbusch"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:3a868e12$0$20218@reader3...
>> I work in financials, and as a Linux user (and onetime RH6.2
>> user) I have been tracking RH on this very subject. For one,
>> they just posted earnings well above expectations, and they've
>> set their target for profitability as sometime this year
>> (don't have the exact date here, and I'm too lazy to look it
>> up).
>
> Isn't it amazing that Red Hat's financials have suddenly picked
> up since they decided to start releasing broken versions of
> their OS (RH 7) that generate lots and lots of support
> incidents?
>
>
>
>
Poor Erik,
That would have been a nice theory, were it not that the
earnings that were above expectations could have been at most
q4, and I believe it was actually q3 that gave the right
numbers.
In either case, this would mean that this has not much to do
with RH7, because it's release was too close to the end of q4 to
make a difference.
Barking up the wrong tree again I'm afraid.
Mart
--
Happily running Debian, posting with Pan
------------------------------
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