Linux-Advocacy Digest #159, Volume #32 Mon, 12 Feb 01 20:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Micro-Sinux Distro? (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?) (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Indrema fan site (Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: Downgrading to Mandrake 7.2 - did Linux become a windoze clone? (Bit Twister)
Re: Here's what THIS newbie would like to see (Mike)
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
Re: Downgrading to Mandrake 7.2 - did Linux become a windoze clone? (*Rotten_168*)
Re: Whistler, yet another Windows push.
Re: Another Pete Goodwin "Oopsie"!
Re: User Interfaces in the world of Linux... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: Linux Threat: non-existant
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Micro-Sinux Distro?
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:17:16 -0500
Steve Tinkle wrote:
>
> Here's a thought...
>
> If Microsoft is so afraid of Linux, what is to keep them from
> unleashing a Micro-Linux Distibution and compete with all the other
> flavors out there?
Because then NOBODY would buy windows.
Or...to keep the performance/price ratio constant acroos the product
line,
they would have to sell Linux for several THOUSAND dollars per machine.
>
> Steve
> Let the flaming begin.
> =)
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:21:27 -0500
Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Tom Wilson wrote:
> > >
> > > The very fact that feature is being proposed is enough to conjure up
> past
> > > memories of subscription based software from the early eighties. It is
> a
> > > blatant rip-off and causes your TCO to skyrocket. Actually, i'm
> surprised
> > > its' taken this long, with the Internet being what it is now, for
> someone
> > > to seriously pursue such a course again. The consumer sector said no,
> > > resoundingly, to DIVX and i'm hoping that the commercial sector takes
> the
> > > same tact with this profit mongering.
> > >
> > > I've heard some of the jucier technical details of .NET and, as a
> > > developer, I see the potential. I also see the scenario I just ranted
> on.
> > > We've made the decision not to develop for it and we won't. If it takes
> > > off, and I don't see it doing so... One of the alternative OS's will
> just
> > > have to be modified to counter it. Be it Linux or BSD.
> >
> > As I understand it, .NET will be accessible to any OS, it's just that
> > Windows tools will be the first down the pike. Of course, that
> > common-language substrate will be lowest-common-denominator, and
> > Microsoft will change it whenever they see fit, giving developers fits.
> > It'll be as stable as OLE/COM/COM+/ActiveX/DCOM.....
>
> As best I can determine it IS OLE/COM/COM+/ActiveX/DCOM. Nothing new. Just
> a label and more promises with that little subscription wrinkle added.
>
> With all of the Fear Uncertainty and Doubt talk being bandied about, I'd go
> so far as to say MS isn't so much spreading it as feeling it at this point.
> Win ME, 2K, Whistler, all released within a short amount of time. Now we
> have a conglomeration of existing technologies repackaged as .NET. Throw in
> all of the recent Linux trashing and you've got one very concerned company.
When you can't offer a superior product....introduce massive confusion
into the marketplace.
This was the core of Intel's 386 DX/SX garbage in the late 80's, and now
Microshaft is doing the same.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Indrema fan site
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 02:17:50 +0100
William Kendrick wrote:
> I've created a fan site dedicated to the upcoming
> "Indrema Entertainment System," a Linux-based game console with many
> home entertainment features (DVD player, MP3 support, TiVo-like features).
>
Fine, so you are already a fan of something which does not even exist.
What should this tell us
Mind you, I am a linux user.
Do you really think such stuff will help ANY cause?
Or isn`t it that anyone else will just laugh his/her ass off at those
juvenile geeks?
>
Peter
--
"The PROPER way to handle HTML postings is to cancel the article, then
hire a hitman to kill the poster, his wife and kids, and fuck his dog and
smash his computer into little bits. Anything more is just extremism."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bit Twister)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Downgrading to Mandrake 7.2 - did Linux become a windoze clone?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:49:50 GMT
Had the same kind of problems in the 7.2
"Complete" was misleading. 4 cds. Though I was getting
the same thing I had in the 7.1 Deluxe.
Tried Expert and Custom "load all". Ha, Ha, loaded in 10 minutes.
Spent the rest of the weekend loading packages and getting
updates off the net and still could not do an nslookup.
Wound up getting a copy from the 7.1 drive.
I feel like Mandrake hired a bunch of Micro$oft programmers.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike)
Subject: Re: Here's what THIS newbie would like to see
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,linux.redhat
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:56:59 GMT
I think this is a great idea as well, most of the time the problem isn't what someone
wants
to do, its the fact they don't know they can do it.. Having some kind of introduction
to all
the little programs that make up unix/linux ..
PM ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: What you teach depends on just how much time you have. For myself, I'm more
: interested in finding out WHAT I need to learn, not so much the details on a
: specific program. A list of important progs and config files with a short
: description of what they're for would go a LOOONG way in getting a newbie
: started. Remember the parable about giving someone a fish? Here's an example
: whatis - tells you what something does e.g. whatis ppp
: apropos - Lists files that pertain to a topic e.g. apropos ppp
: man - masochists manual reader for what apropos shows you
: locate - find out where that pesky file actually is
: chown - change ownership of files e.g. chown nobody.nobody *
: chmod - change what people are allowed to do with a file e.g. chmod 777
: mywebpage.html
: pico - simple command line editor
: vi - the masochists dream text editor
: linuxconf - detailed configuration of your linux from menus
: setup - configure some basic OS functions and set startup programs
: Xconfigurator - configure xwindows to your hardware
: kernalcfg - set up loadable modules (network cards etc)
: netcfg - configure your network
: <add mail/news setup here - I still haven't gotten them to work - I use my
: windoze box>.
: You'll definately want to go over installing RPMs (and other vendor equivs)
: as well as the basics of how to compile (perhaps a list of packages required
: to enable compiling - thats another thing I've had zero luck with - I just
: don't know WHAT I have to have. libc,glibc what the hell is the difference
: and which do I need?)
: And don't forget to tell people how to update things like the locate
: database (locate -u). I still don't know if you need to do that with man or
: apropos...
: RTFM is fine and I try to, but if I don't know it exists I can't really read
: up on it can I.
: And for you *nix grognards out there, vi is NOT easy. It seems a lot like
: dos's edlin to me... (hella more powerful I agree, but more cryptic and and
: just as conceptually unfriendly!)
: Oh and someone please invent a "man -translatethejargonintoenglishplease"
--
=============================================
Be not a follower, jump off the bridge first!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:57:22 -0000
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:47:37 GMT, John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Stefan Ohlsson writes:
>> Are you complaining about "grammar"?
>
>I'm complaining about the implication that "the" atheists are an organized
>group with a set of agreed upon theories and such: a church.
>
>> But I'm not stubbornly locked to my opinions/beliefs, so please explain
>> to me what atheism is all about then.
>
>It's about the absence of belief in God.
>
>> How do they explain the universe?
Some atheists don't. It's a complete non-issue, much like some
Xian just takes it for granted that Loki doesn't exist or most
adults take it for granted that the Easter Bunny and Tooth
Fairy don't exist and that Bugs Bunny is a fictional character.
>
>How do theists explain God?
[deletia]
--
Regarding Copyleft:
There are more of "US" than there are of "YOU", so I don't
really give a damn if you're mad that the L/GPL makes it
harder for you to be a robber baron.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: *Rotten_168* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Downgrading to Mandrake 7.2 - did Linux become a windoze clone?
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:57:59 GMT
David Steinberg wrote:
>
> Zsolt Zsoldos ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> : Is this a new trend or I just picked the wrong distribution ?
> : Anybody care to comment on RedHat 7.x or other distribution's newest
> : versions from the developer's pont of view ? Are they also stripped
> : down?
>
> Have you taken a look at Debian yet? I would have guessed that a Linux
> old-timer such as yourself <grin> would have. It so, did you not like
> it? I recently switched from Mandrake, and I am most impressed.
>
> Like you said Mandrake is flashy, but it's not really all that well put
> together. Everything doesn't always work correctly, and like you said, it
> seems like it's geared towards non-developers. I was also frustrated
> that, in 7.1 (the last version I used) the C++ standard libraries weren't
> even on the first CD! There are some decidedly unuseful packages
> included on the first CD, but no C++ standard libraries?!
>
> Anyways, Debian is built by the community for the community...and that
> means that developers and more advanced users matter. There's no push to
> have pointy-clicky configuration tools, but configuration is usually
> easier, anyway, consisting of a few questions asked in a package's
> post-install script. And package management is, of course, superb. To
> keep up to date, you just need to run "apt-get update; apt-get upgrade",
> and any package updates are applied. To install a new package foo,
> "apt-get install foo" takes care of the package and all of its
> dependencies. I almost cried the first time I saw it work, it was so
> beautiful. :)
>
> People have complained that the installation is difficult, but for someone
> with the experience you've had, it should be a breeze. Just remember to
> start small with package selection, and then "apt-get" whatever you need,
> as you need it.
>
> Enough of my gushing: check out www.debian.org for more information.
>
> --
> David Steinberg -o)
> Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
Hey maybe this is a dumb question but is Debian available at stores? I
still have a dialup so downloading a 1+ gig distro is out of the
question.
I too have Mandrake and I find it... junky. It's like someone through a
bunch of packages and "code fragments" on a CD and a flawed installer
and shipped it. When I was first learning, I was frustrated to no end by
why 'gcc' and 'make' both returned 'bash: xxxx: command not recognized'.
So they make me install a hex editor but not gcc and make? Argh,
unfortunately a lot of Linux distros just don't have good business sense
(or common sense) and they're now paying the price for it.
--
Rotten168
=============================
http://rotten168.home.att.net
=============================
ICQ# 51265871
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Whistler, yet another Windows push.
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:59:00 -0000
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:15:07 GMT, chrisv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Osugi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "chrisv"
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Nonsense. Even my 6 year old daughter has dozens of apps she runs on
>>> her machine. Are ANY of these available on Linux? Not.
>>
>>Dozens sounds like an exaggeration.
>
>Well, they're all games and such...
Even DOZENS of GAMES seems like an exageration.
[deletia]
Plus, that would make it "dozens of games" & not "dozens of apps".
--
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Another Pete Goodwin "Oopsie"!
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:00:22 -0000
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:36:52 GMT, Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <966t04$d4b$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> BS.. you setup a que and configure a printer for it.
>> That cat be that hard to understand for a pro like you or is it?
>
>What?
>
>Windows - one printer, one queue.
>Linux - one printer, n queues.
>
>What's the point?
Flexibility.
Convenience.
Even under WinDOS it is useful to set up multiple
print queues for the same printer. It saves baby-
sitting the UI.
[deletia]
--
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: User Interfaces in the world of Linux...
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:50:37 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> To each his own, that's why X windows leaves the
> choice up to you - I prefer focus follows mouse and
> autoraise, I hate having to explicitly click on a window
> to make it active.
I presume you are referring to Microsoft Windows here. If you use
focus follows mouse or sloppy focus under X you don't have to
raise a window to make it active. Personally I hate autoraise
but that is just my opinion. At least we have the choice as usual.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:02:26 -0000
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:53:14 GMT, Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> It uses exactly the same 'model', Pete. It didn't have the same default
>> configuration, because, being a graphics program with demanding
>> requirements, it defaulted to a raw mode, which you neglected to notice
>> when you clicked on the OK button in the print dialog like a mindless
>> Windows idiot.
>
>Get it right. As a reasonable minded person, I clicked on the OK button
No, as a moron Lemming you expected Linux to be a Windows clone
that you can get away with not paying for when infact Linux is
another OS entirely with potentially distinct ways of doing things.
>expecting the application to follow the sane rules. Instead, the
>application had a different assumption, and I ended up with sheets of
>ASCII.
[deletia]
You choose to interact with software in a rigid fashion and
you deserve all the trouble you get.
--
Common Standards, Common Ownership.
The alternative only leads to destructive anti-capitalist
and anti-democratic monopolies.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: 13 Feb 2001 01:04:21 GMT
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Mart van de Wege wrote:
:> I just checked the gimp. It defaults to default printer queue,
:> but it uses the option -oraw.
:> It appears that Pete is right. The gimp does not use his defined
:> printer, but dumps raw PS to his Epson. This is
:> counterintuitive, as all other Linux programs generally take the
:> user-defined default queue.
:> It is however a gimp issue, not a Linux one.
: You're right, this is a Gimp issue, not Linux. I know I keep lumping this
: all on Linux's broad shoulders, but that's the way it'll be perceived by
: the majority - especially if they install a single distribution. It may be
: technically wrong, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
You could help correct the misinformation instead of spreading it.
Joe
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Threat: non-existant
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:07:05 -0000
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:33:22 +0000, pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Lloyd Llewellyn wrote:
>>
>> > It's kind of ironic. Every time we do a 'apt-get dist-upgrade' to get a
>> > new version of debian, Wintrolls have to *pay* for a new version of
>> > Windows. The higher sales figures they are bragging about are a direct
>> > result of them being forced to make more purchases. What a laugh!!
>>
>> Yes, it's very ironic that Windows enthusiasts keep bringing up how much
>> money MS has managed to extort from the market as a result of its
>> monopoly.
>
>All true - but remember - M$ is a monopoly because they
>sold what people wanted to buy at a time when the alternatives
>were crap. You could arue that
This is simply delusional.
At no point in time has Microsoft bested it's competitors
technically. Try and demonstrate otherwise, in actual
detail rather than simply by empty rhetoric.
Microsoft sold what people thought most other people used.
The vendorlock you allude to existed as early as 1988, more
than a decade ago, and prior to the existence of ANY useful
version of Windows.
Microsoft was subjecting people to DOS driver installs and
manual memory management as late as the 2nd half of 1995.
>1. OS is a natural monopoly
> API's, file formats and device drivers are all serious "lock-in"
>2. Monopolies exist because they are the best at the time
> M$ provided a platform with better software than Apple did at the time
>
>They are now of course a deeply evil company in their tactics dept.
--
Unless you've got the engineering process to match a DEC,
you won't produce a VMS.
You'll just end up with the likes of NT.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
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