Linux-Advocacy Digest #310, Volume #32 Mon, 19 Feb 01 06:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Interesting article ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (John Rudd)
Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ] ("Edward Rosten")
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Nick Condon)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited ("Edward Rosten")
Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Nick Condon)
Re: Another Pete Goodwin "Oopsie"! (Rob S. Wolfram)
Re: How Microsoft Crushes the Hearts of Trolls. ("David Brown")
Re: Which Linux? ("Edward Rosten")
Re: It's just too easy ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited (Ziya Oz)
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! ("Karel Jansens")
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! ("Karel Jansens")
Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited ("Karel Jansens")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:44:52 +0000
>> > Nope, came across intact.
>>
>> Hmm.
>>
>> I havn't figured out yeu exactly what it mungs and what it doesn't
>>
>
> Check your line-length setting.
>
> That's usually the key.
True. It warned me about being over the ine width setting but didn't ming
it.
If it sees lines like this
>this is a
>cut in half
>line and
>will
>end up munged
It will mung them in to a couple of full width lines. I haven't found how
to switch that off.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:50:00 +0000
> Ahh... avoid avoid avoid.
>
> It's really annoying, but true. You guys really can't make up your mind
> and you can't figure out what you want Linux to be. Is Linux Unix, or is
> it not?
Could someone ask him if he's heard of GNU (ie GNU's not UNIX(tm)) ?
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 01:59:59 -0800
From: John Rudd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Jonathan Hendry wrote:
>
> "Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > What I like about the GPL is it keeps people honest....
>
> No it doesn't. The legions of /.ers who will whinge
> and bitch and complain and DDOS your site keep people
> honest.
>
Sounds like the digital age equiv. of Mao's comment about that which issues
forth from the barrel of a gun. (That was Mao, wasn't it?)
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.security.ssh
Subject: Re: SSH vulnerabilities - still waiting [ was Interesting article ]
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:00:03 +0000
> This is because chad doesnt actually know anything about linux.
^^^^^
You misspelled anything.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:08:43 +0000
> Your only alternative is to admit that the Scientific Method is indeed a
> faith.
That is not true. The Scientific Method (look at its name) is simply a
method of working. No more, mo less. Faith is not a method of working, so
the scientific method is not a faith.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: 19 Feb 2001 10:08:25 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (ZnU) wrote
>In article <1ep23jl.1s6168fn1c48uN@[192.168.0.142]>,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew J. Brehm) wrote:
>
>> And I don't see any enforced sharing in the GPL. It absolutely allows
>> you to write software derived from GPLed software and use it for
>> yourself without sharing it with anybody.
>
>It doesn't allow you to distribute it, however.
It absolutely does allow for distribution, and allows you to charge a fee
for doing so. The GPL just says that if you re-distribute the code (or
derived works), it must be under the same terms that you yourself obtained
it (i.e. under the GPL). That is the price you pay for using someone else's
code instead of writing it yourself.
Incidentally, other kinds of copyright control derived works, too. You
can't just distribute movies about Mickey Mouse with permission from Disney
for example.
--
Nick
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:19:34 +0000
> Maybe you don't like this. Fine. Use GPL. But don't claim it's "free"
> (as in speech), because GPLed code comes with strings attached. And
> these strings sometimes result in people reinventing the wheel (one of
> the major things open source tries to eliminate), simply because of the
> license.
The only strings attached are that you must not make it less free.
Whereas with BSD software, a company can easily make it non free. With
GPL you always have the freedom.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: MS to Enforce Registration - or Else
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:20:10 GMT
In article <96qrc0$7e0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Edward Rosten wrote:
>> Your only alternative is to admit that the Scientific Method is indeed a
>> faith.
>
>That is not true. The Scientific Method (look at its name) is simply a
>method of working. No more, mo less. Faith is not a method of working, so
>the scientific method is not a faith.
>
>-Ed
>
Larry is holding 1st base.
And Curley is on 2nd.
>
>--
>Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
>weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
> - The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
> |eng.ox.ac.uk
--
Charlie
**DEBIAN** **GNU**
/ / __ __ __ __ __ __ __
/ /__ / / / \/ / / /_/ / \ \/ /
/_____/ /_/ /_/\__/ /_____/ /_/\_\
http://www.debian.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:21:16 GMT
In article <96qs0b$7e0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Edward Rosten wrote:
>> Maybe you don't like this. Fine. Use GPL. But don't claim it's "free"
>> (as in speech), because GPLed code comes with strings attached. And
>> these strings sometimes result in people reinventing the wheel (one of
>> the major things open source tries to eliminate), simply because of the
>> license.
>
>The only strings attached are that you must not make it less free.
>Whereas with BSD software, a company can easily make it non free. With
>GPL you always have the freedom.
>
>-Ed
And this is *EXACTLY* why I decided to use Linux instead of BSD code.
--
Charlie
**DEBIAN** **GNU**
/ / __ __ __ __ __ __ __
/ /__ / / / \/ / / /_/ / \ \/ /
/_____/ /_/ /_/\__/ /_____/ /_/\_\
http://www.debian.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Condon)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: 19 Feb 2001 10:19:04 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ziya Oz) wrote in
>Scott Gardner wrote:
>> Well, if I were a creator in another field, say painting, for
>> instance, and I wanted to give my art to the world, I'd be severely
>> cheesed off if someone else took it, made a few changes, and charged
>> the rest of the world for it.
>
>This is a rather torturous example. If the pilferer added nothing
>substantial to the original work, then why would anybody buy it,
>especially given the fact that the original is out there -- free.
If you think cutting costs is the only thing that motiviates people you are
seriously mistaken. The Free Software Foundation has sold free software
compilations for about 17 years now. Why do people buy software that is
available out there for free? Lots of reasons, as many reasons as there are
people. Why do people tip watresses when the guy at the next table didn't?
I don't know, but they do. Why do people give money to street performers
when the guy next to them is getting the same performance for free? I don't
know, but they do.
>If he
>did indeed embellished it substantially, well, that's the price of
>progress. Both in theory and historical fact, especially in art.
It only progress in software if he shares the source code with us.
Otherwise its just a black-box.
>
>> The logistics of keeping something free can be as complicated as the
>> mechanics of protecting's one work from infringement...
>
>Not unless you *just* give it away -- free and clear.
So someone else can take it and claim it as theirs. No thanks.
--
Nick
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob S. Wolfram)
Subject: Re: Another Pete Goodwin "Oopsie"!
Date: 18 Feb 2001 14:34:24 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Joseph T. Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>: Personally, I don't want Linux to be usable to people who are unwilling
>: to learn. For that matter, I don't want *anything* to be usable to
>: people who are unwilling to learn. The amount of learning we can discuss
>: about.
>
>But then we can forget about Linux or other free software becoming
>much more "mainstream" than it is now. And, along with that, the
>cooperation from hardware vendors, etc.
First, I agree with RMS that freedom is more important than popularity,
but I would welcome {Gnu/,}Linux to become mainstream. What I do argue
against here is that people keep mumbling about the need to learn a new
computing paradigm, while they easily forget about all the years of
experience that they have in the DOS/Windows world. And experiece *is*
learning.
>It's a sad but undeniable fact that most people in our
>anti-intellectual culture will do only as much learning as they must.
Then I humbly wonder if a complex aparatus like a computer is something
they should bother with...
>: Really, if people are happy with what they *learned* during their many
>: years of Windows usage (be it via trial & error, RTFM or de auditu) and
>: they do not want to learn when switching to something else, then by all
>: means they should not switch and stick with what they feel comfartable
>: with.
>
>I would like for them to have an alternative to buggy proprietary
>crapware, especially crapware that funds and feeds an evil empire that
>is intent on destroying us.
They already do, but it does come at a price. They price is their
willingness to learn something new.
Also, they only way to make Linux idiot-friendly, is to remove all
possible choices and centrally impose a "standard" for everything. This
is the last thing I would welcome, not in the last place because such a
move would make us vulnerable to destruction by The Evil Empire.
Cheers,
Rob
--
Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OpenPGP key 0xD61A655D
Computers have a lot in common with air conditioners:
Once you open WINDOWS, they stop working properly.
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How Microsoft Crushes the Hearts of Trolls.
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:26:46 +0100
Edward Rosten wrote in message <96psss$jkl$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>>> >Don't mention Knuth when Chad is listening. It's 70's technology!
>>>
>>> Last I heard, Knuth was working on a new language for use in more "Art
>>> of Computer Programming" books, so he is producing some more modern
>>> stuff
>>
>> I'm glad to hear that. There's always a lot to learn from Knuth,
>> whichever language he selects to use.
>
>I went to a lecture by him recently. He seemed really in to literate
>programming (using C-WEB).
>
>-Ed
>
I am not quite sure what you mean by "literate" programming, but he has
always been concerned about the appearance and readability of programs (and
of books and mathematics - hence TeX).
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Which Linux?
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:43:37 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Marada C.
Shradrakaii" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You might try Slackware or a distribution-on-a-floppy. Try to avoid the
> most recent ones.
>
> 5M is very little memory for Linux, especially with X. You'll be
> happier with
> 8 or 16. I tried recently Slackware 4.0 (kernel 2.2.5?) on a 386/40
> with 8Mb.
> X was slow.
>
> Try for something based on kernel 2.0.x.
>
> Alternative: If all you want is command-line UNIX tool familiarization,
> consider Minix. Runs off a floppy, installs in <30Mb complete.
Monkey Linux fits on 5 floppies, is designed to work with a 386/4MB has
X, netscape needs 20M ho HDD space and 10M swap.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: It's just too easy
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:49:08 +0000
>> That really doesn't matter. As long as the pin-outs and
>> timing-sequences on the bus are maintained, then it's a "real" ISA BUS.
>
> That is sort of the funny thing. The ISA bus never really existed. The
> AT bus did exist and was based on a 6 MHZ 80286, and timing diagrams
> were based on that behavior. The ISA bus was an attempt to standardize
> the 16 bit bus. It was a fuzzy spec because difference mainboard behaved
> differently.
The ISA bit is an 8 bit bus with a really wierd 16 bit kludge on top.
see
www.controlled.com
and read about the ISA timings.
The PC-104 bus is now a very well established standard. It is the ISA bus
with a different connector (esentially).
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
From: Ziya Oz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:52:12 GMT
Nick Condon wrote:
>> If he did indeed embellished it substantially, well, that's the price of
>> progress. Both in theory and historical fact, especially in art.
>
> It only progress in software if he shares the source code with us.
> Otherwise its just a black-box.
The overwhelming majority of software/application/GUI innovations have come
from proprietary sources.
If the GLP zealots were as obsessed about the innovation in their apps as
they are about the legal ramifications, we'd be all better off.
****
Ziya
------------------------------
From: "Karel Jansens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:01:43 -0100
In article <96onpm$o8n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>>>>>Yet I don't dissect Windows, so why should I with Linux?
>>>>
>>>>You can't tell the difference between a graphics program running on
>>>>Windows and Windows? You're not nearly as experienced as you pretend
>>>>then.
>>>
>>> Twisty!
>>>
>>>>>> Dufus.
>>>>>
>>>>>Dweeb.
>>>>
>>>>Dupe.
>>>
>>> Belgian!
>>>
>> Hey! Is that supposed to be funny?
>
> Listen to the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy.
>
I read all five parts of the trilogy, but only in its Dutch translation
(my love for original versions only started after I compared prices).
Never met any Belgians in it.
Still, not much harm done; I consider myself Flemish, rather than
Belgian. But isn't it rather ironic that one of the smartest people ever
to walk the British (allegedly) literary scene was... Belgian? You chaps
perchance suffering from an inferiority complex?
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================
"Go go gadget linux." Zoomm!
==============================
------------------------------
From: "Karel Jansens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:01:44 -0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Pete Goodwin"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Karel Jansens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>> Belgian!
>>>
>>Hey! Is that supposed to be funny?
>
> It's from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It's supposed to be the
> worst possible insult you can have in a non-f*cked up society.
>
> 8)
>
Oh.
To use an expression from the immortal Vyvyan: "Ahahahahaha!!!!"
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================
"Go go gadget linux." Zoomm!
==============================
------------------------------
From: "Karel Jansens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Information wants to be free, Revisited
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:03:51 -0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ziya Oz"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Nigel wrote:
>
>> GPL'ing your code stops others from claiming rights to it - would you
>> want someone to claim the rights to something you have given away
>
> The operative phrase here: "given away."
>
It was you who introduced the phrase. The GPL does not prohibit anyone
from asking a price for their work.
>> and try to stop you using it?
>
> How?
>
By gobbling up the code you wrote, incorporating it into their work and
slapping a proprietary license onto it. The GPL does not allow this.
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================
"Go go gadget linux." Zoomm!
==============================
------------------------------
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