Linux-Advocacy Digest #147, Volume #33 Wed, 28 Mar 01 01:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP. (Brian Rourke)
Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger! (Chris Ahlstrom)
BIG MOUSE! (Sockwoo Lee)
Re: Suse vs RH/Mandrake ? (or what's so great about 7.2) (Tim Hanson)
Re: Why can't we just all be friends? (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: BIG MOUSE! (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP. (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Why can't we just all be friends? (Terry Porter)
Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Brian Rourke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP.
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:20:09 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 28 Mar 2001 02:11:42 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 01:53:18 -0700, Brian Rourke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On 27 Mar 2001 03:20:09 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>*snip*
>>>
>>>May I suggest a good book such as O'Riely's "Running Linux" as a means for you
>>>to obtain some understanding of the basics of installing and running Linux ?
>>>
>>
>>I've thought about buying this several times.
>>
>>>In 1997 thats what I used, and a $6.50 Cheapbytes CD, containing RedHat4.2.
>>>I read that book 3 times, and used a seperate hard drive for Linux, in other
>>>words I'd actually swap hard drives when I wanted to run Linux or Win95.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I'm coming to the conclusion that the separate hard drive may be the
>>way to go, based on your advice and that of several other people.
>Actually, ... now that I've a little more experience, if I could do it again
>I'd buy another pc, and network the new Linux box and the Windows box, and move
>the one set of keyboard and monitorbetween them as I wished.
A very good, if expensive (for me) idea. Someday...maybe...
>
>This way I could set up a Samba file share on the Linux box and copy all my
>Windows files to the Linux box, making the transition as painless as possible.
>I also make it a point to 'ruin' a new disto afew times and see how hard it is
>to recover, or what I can get away with, before I start depending on the
>install.
>
Another good idea I wouldn't have thought of.
>With a seperate Linux box, if you stuff it up, you still have your working
>(tongue in cheek) Windows box to fall back on.
>
Working Windows....if only. You know what happens when you fall back
on a Window...
>
>The Linux box need not be anything special, unless you want speedy Xwindows
>response, and even then, something like my Cyrix 686/300 with 128megs ram is
>plenty.
>
>Second hand NE2000 network cards will usually be found on boot up by Linux,
>the main trouble will be Windows, where you may have to tell it the interrupt
>settings of the card if its a isa bus unit.
>
>>
>>>At first, as I came from a DOS/Windows world, Linux was totally strange to me,
>>>and it took a while for me to come to grips with it, but after about 6 months
>>>I changed over to Linux permently following a motherboard upgrade that while
>>>having no effect on Linux, rendered Windows unusable.
>>>
>>>I also read COLA for 12 months before posting,n as people like the famous
>>>Alexander Viro had no time for fools and would rip yer head off, if you didn't
>>>think about your post carefully, before posting it :)
>>
>>Yep, off to the newbie groups for me!
>A book will do a *lot* for your understanding, and if no one on the help groups
>has solved your particular problem before, you probably wont get any replies to
>requests for help. I've found that people only reply to problems that they have
>had and solved themselves.
>
Yes, that's been my experience. When I was doing google searches, I
noted that people who had experiences similar to mine didn't get
responses in the help groups.
>>
>>>
>>>Good luck with Linux, a bad start can only get better, and you dont have to
>>>spend lots of money to get a working Linux install. As stated before, my initial
>>>foray cost me about $60 for the book (huge book) and $6.50 for the CD.
>>>
>>>I have never bought a commercial boxed Linux disto.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I definitely will think hard before doing it again.
>Hahah, giving Linux away so soon ?
>You can't escape you know, once the Linux bug bites its only a matter of time
>before you *have* to try again ;-)
>
Uh oh... That may be true, though. I'm already curious to try new
things, but I'll have to wait until I have a good block of time.
>Actually I realise I was incorrect when I said I have never bought a commercial
>disto before (sorry forgot). I bought my first Linux disto in 1993, the
>Yggdrassil shrink wrapped CD and small 'Windows like' booklet.
>
Aha! Well I won't tell anyone.
>I put the CD and the boot floppy in my homemade pc (Cyrix 486SLC with 8 megs
>ram) and it booted, made a ram based install, found my network card, sound card
>and video card.
>
>I was presented with a working Linux install, (including Xwindows that was mega
>slow)!!
>
>Unfortunately I didn't have a clue, playing X othello was fun, but I couldn't
>even mount a floppy, as I was totally clueless!
>
>So I shelved it for 4 years, under interesting but too strange.
>
>If you think Linux is too strange also, be aware that Linux is not new, its
>a clone of UNIX which was first released in 1972, and has sound reasons for
>its design, even if one isnt aware of them :)
>
I had some small UNIX experience a long time ago. I basically liked
it.
>Allow a couple of years, 1-3 books, lots of reading and experimentation before
>you start to feel at home with Linux, having come from a Windows environment.
It's good to have a sense of what to expect, thanks.
>
>
>>
>>Thanks for all the advice and the interesting comments.
>You're wecome, it's fun talking to a pissed off Linux user instead of a
>Wintroll :)
Likewise, thanks. I wonder if the Wintrolls live in a little office
in Redmond, or whatever that town's name is.
Best regards,
Brian
The late spring sunshine flooded,
like a bursted tepid star,
the pink Boulevard. The people
beneath crawled like wounded insects
of cloth.
Wyndham Lewis
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger!
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 04:31:43 GMT
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> I just sent and email then just to check whether it was alright for me to
> install Linux on more than one computer :)
Here's the auto-reply I got:
Precedence: bulk
Auto-Submitted: auto-replied
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:43:45 -0700
To: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Auto-acknowledgment, Piracy? (KMM186999C0KM)
From: Microsoft Anti-Piracy Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Microsoft Anti-Piracy Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset = "us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:quoted-printable
X-Mailer: Kana 5.0
X-Mozilla-Status: 8001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-UIDL: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Microsoft Corporation thanks you for your recent correspondence to our
Anti-Piracy team. As an international company that believes in
appreciating and protecting intellectual property, Microsoft devotes
substantial time and effort towards fighting software piracy, and we
appreciate your shared interest in this cause.
Our staff promptly handles questions or requests for information on
software piracy. We actively pursue all reports on possible
unauthorized copying and/or distribution of Microsoft software. Due to
the sensitive legal nature of these matters, it is not be possible for
us to provide feedback or updates about actions taken on your
submission. However, we want you to know this in no way reduces the
importance of your submission to us. We take these submissions very
seriously and will investigate the situation and proceed with whatever
action is deemed necessary. The final outcome of many such matters
sent to us can be viewed via press releases located at
www.microsoft.com/piracy. Visit this website to see other valuable
Anti-Piracy information such as recognizing genuine Microsoft software,
understanding Microsoft's licensing policies, and news about Microsoft's
Anti-Piracy initiatives.
Additional information -
========================================================================
=========
Reporting Software Piracy to Microsoft within USA or Canada: Call
1-800-RU-LEGIT
========================================================================
==============
Reporting Software Piracy to Microsoft outside of USA or Canada:
Visit http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/reporting/piracy_out_us.asp for
local telephone numbers
========================================================================
=========
For information on recognizing genuine Microsoft software acquired with
a new PC:
Visit http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/howtotell/.
========================================================================
=========
Microsoft Authorized Distributors: Visit
http://www.microsoft.com/directaccess.
========================================================================
=========
Microsoft Authorized OEM Distributors: Visit
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/
========================================================================
=========
Listing of Microsoft volume licensing programs: Visit
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/
========================================================================
=========
Additional information about Anti-Piracy from the Business Software
Alliance:
Visit http://www.bsa.org.
Once again, we thank you for your interest and participation in fighting
software piracy!
Yours sincerely,
Microsoft Corporation
Anti-Piracy Team
Note the www.bsa.org URL, too.
Chris
--
[ Do Not Make Illegal Copies of This Message ]
------------------------------
From: Sockwoo Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: BIG MOUSE!
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 04:55:46 GMT
I have subscribed this newsgroup for a month. I thought you people are
discussing Linux. Since i am also crazy about Linux, I had great
expectation on this group. But you all f_cking people have only big
mouse. Many people follow the someone's notes (totally not related to
Linux), and those f_cking messages gave me f_cking headache. I know you
all have freedom to speak or write, but you people are doing too much.
Since old man says "NOBody scares shit to avoid, but they avoid because
its f_cking dirty. I will stop subscribing this fucking newsgroup. If
you have any other words, fuck you.
Thank you Sokwoo Lee,
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:07:14 -0800
From: Tim Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Suse vs RH/Mandrake ? (or what's so great about 7.2)
Gary Hallock wrote:
>
> In article
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Aye! I've got Lotus Smart Suite also and came bundled with my IBM. Very
> > Good package. The one program I really like is the Day Planner. Yes, it
> > would be nice... hmmmmm.... I wonder, since IBM is supporting Linux and
> > pretty much supports Lotus and the $2billion investments, do you suppose
> > that that is happening???
>
> Unfortunately, Lotus seems to have no interest in porting Smart Suite to
> Linux. I'd be happy if it would run under Wine. I use Lotus Notes
> every day under Wine andit works quite well now. If I only had some
> free time I'd take a look at it myself. I have gotten Wordpro and 123 to
> come up under Wine, but not much works.
>
> Gary
This sounds strangely like one of those subjects that comes out in
testimony years later, where Microsoft applied the right kind of
pressure and had it scrubbed. Try to find an IBM client loaded with
Linux.
--
If you had any brains, you'd be dangerous.
______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
With Six Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why can't we just all be friends?
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:06:13 +1200
IMHO Microsoft has benefited the Linux and alternative OS community a great
deal over the last 10 years. The more they (Microsoft) push the button, the
more people they piss off. Just head over to the public discussion forum for
Windows XP on the Microsoft news server and see the number of pissed off
people in regards to the latest Microsoft "Innovations", aka Activation and
Subscription based software. Keep do'in it Microsoft, its benefiting me, and
other Linux users, and re-enforces the DOJ ruling every day you bring in a new
"innovation".
Matthew Gardiner
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> "Brandur K. Jacobsen" wrote:
> >
> > "Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless!
> > Everything is meaningless."
> > I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them
> > are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
> > Ecclesiastes chapter 1
> >
> > So what if it's Windows or Linux or whatever?
> >
>
> do you *LIKE* losing all your work when your LoseDOS box crashes....*AGAIN*
>
> > _brandur_
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: BIG MOUSE!
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:08:53 +1200
Thank you for you email. AT&T have just been notified of your spam. Have a
nice day.
Matthew Gardiner
Sockwoo Lee wrote:
> I have subscribed this newsgroup for a month. I thought you people are
> discussing Linux. Since i am also crazy about Linux, I had great
> expectation on this group. But you all f_cking people have only big
> mouse. Many people follow the someone's notes (totally not related to
> Linux), and those f_cking messages gave me f_cking headache. I know you
> all have freedom to speak or write, but you people are doing too much.
> Since old man says "NOBody scares shit to avoid, but they avoid because
> its f_cking dirty. I will stop subscribing this fucking newsgroup. If
> you have any other words, fuck you.
>
> Thank you Sokwoo Lee,
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP.
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:24:11 +1200
The problem is that the distro's assume you're one of the 90% of users who
have ONE partition, and have never used an OS other than Windows. You are
clearly not one of the 90% distro's are targeting. Personally, don't even
have Windows on my b0x, I have 57482MB totally dedicated to root, and 227MB
dedicated to swap. I don't need Windows, I already have my games for Linux,
I have all the software I need.
Matthew Gardiner
Brian Rourke wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:22:02 GMT, Giuliano Colla
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Brian Rourke wrote:
> >>
>
> *snip of pointless exchange with the repellent "Jeff"*
>
> >>
> >
> >In a previous post I've tried to be helpful, maybe giving the wrong
> >suggestion, maybe not.
> >
>
> You were helpful, and appreciate your time and thought very much.
>
> >But being this an advocacy group, I can't refrain to jump in, because
> >your casual answer makes ring a bell.
> >
> >Yes, the problem is that you appear to be the only one. You don't fit
> >the pattern.
> >
> >If you were a standard user completely illiterate, you'd have your hard
> >drive with just one partition coming from the original installation, and
> >PM wouldn't have any problem creating some space for Linux, or you
> >wouldn't have some inconsistency in the partitions produced by some bugs
> >somewhere sometime when you partitioned your HD.
> >
> >If you were a Linux hacker, you'd know everything about your partitions,
> >about distros, and such, and you'd not follow the installation
> >procedure, because you'd work out your own installation criteria.
> >
> >But you're of a different sort. You've tried to organize your HD at best
> >for your needs, without being a Linux hacker, and that's completely out
> >of the normal pattern.
>
> Is this your nice way of calling me a weirdo? :)
>
> >
> >That's the way things appear to go. Is it the good way? I have some
> >doubts. But then let's not blame Linux for that. It goes deeper to the
> >roots.
>
> Ok, point taken. In fact, I think I owe everyone an apology for not
> making a strong or clear enough distinction between the particular
> Linux distributions that I'm criticizing and the whole Linux
> enterprise. I tried to indicate the limits of my experience and of my
> comments, but I didn't know the lingo well enough to phrase my rant as
> precisely as I would have liked.
>
> Obviously, I think the whole enterprise is perhaps worthwhile, or I
> would not have put in so much time (however misguidedly) trying to get
> it to work.
>
> I do think, though, that it is the job of the distros to anticipate
> problems and anomalies (such as myself, if I am one), and to find ways
> to educate and assist their customers in dealing with such situations.
> That was the kind of thing that set me off.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brian
>
> The late spring sunshine flooded,
> like a bursted tepid star,
> the pink Boulevard. The people
> beneath crawled like wounded insects
> of cloth.
>
> Wyndham Lewis
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Why can't we just all be friends?
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 28 Mar 2001 05:30:07 GMT
On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:26:01 +0100, Brandur K. Jacobsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless!
>Everything is meaningless."
>I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them
>are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.
>Ecclesiastes chapter 1
>
>So what if it's Windows or Linux or whatever?
An odd question, posted in a Linux advocacy group, by a Windows user ?
>
>_brandur_
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP.
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 01:04:09 -0500
Michael Vester wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > Brian Rourke wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, 25 Mar 2001 16:39:02 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Brian Rourke wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >[snipped]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Installation is not a usability issue, it is what it is, a compatibility issue.
> > >
> > > For me, as a user, the target of their market, if I can't USE the
> > > install program for any reason then for me it is a usability issue.
> >
> > Brian didn't do his homework
> >
> > BLAME CANADA!
>
> Don't blame us. We have suffered under the oppressive boot of Bill Gates
> just as much as anyone else. Perhaps Brian should not even be using a
> computer. I have seen the type, "Too stupid to even be just a user."
>
Watch the South Park movie and get back to us.
> >
> > --
> > Aaron R. Kulkis
> > Unix Systems Engineer
> > DNRC Minister of all I survey
> > ICQ # 3056642
> >
> <snip>
>
> --
> Michael Vester
> A credible Linux advocate
>
> "The avalanche has started, it is
> too late for the pebbles to vote"
> Kosh, Vorlon Ambassador to Babylon 5
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
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