Linux-Advocacy Digest #423, Volume #33 Fri, 6 Apr 01 19:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Communism ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Communism (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB? (Giuliano Colla)
Re: Q:Windows NT scripting? (LShaping)
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. (Mathew)
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Q:Windows NT scripting? (Chronos Tachyon)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 18:17:52 -0400
Roberto Alsina wrote:
>
> On Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:37:16 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >chrisv wrote:
> >>
> >> "Roger Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >International law allows for war. You may not like it, but it's legal. And
> >> >that is the point. You don't like it. Do you see killing to stop Hitler as
> >> >immoral?
> >>
> >> Good 'ol Adolph. Always there for a "worst case" example.
> >
> >There are others who serve just as well.
> >
> >Stalin
>
> The only one who declared war on him was Hitler. Hardly helps
> the case of "legal wars".
We're talking about political ideology, not wars, silly.
>
> >Pol Pot
>
> Noone ever declared war on him.
What was that little border war between Cambodia and Viet Nam,
in which, in comparision even the sadistic Vietnamese government
looked like the model of civility.
>
> >etc.
>
> So, none so far.
>
> --
> Roberto Alsina
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roberto Alsina)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: 6 Apr 2001 22:22:48 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 06 Apr 2001 18:17:52 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Roberto Alsina wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:37:16 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >chrisv wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Roger Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >International law allows for war. You may not like it, but it's legal. And
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
Aaron, read here:--+
>> >> >that is the point. You don't like it. Do you see killing to stop Hitler as
>> >> >immoral?
>> >>
>> >> Good 'ol Adolph. Always there for a "worst case" example.
>> >
>> >There are others who serve just as well.
>> >
>> >Stalin
>>
>> The only one who declared war on him was Hitler. Hardly helps
>> the case of "legal wars".
>
>We're talking about political ideology, not wars, silly.
Oh, really? Your post was a direct response to "law allows for war".
But of course, YOU were not talking about wars.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Hey, JS PL was Re: Microsoft abandoning USB?
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 00:26:18 +0200
JS PL wrote:
>
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9afpfd$ot0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "JS PL" <jspl@jsplom> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:9afjn4$hud$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > "JS PL" <jspl@jsplom> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > > What product did you "buy" that adds IE5 to their DOWNLOAD???? I've
> > > never
> > > > > seen any company tack on a 60 meg file that's available for free
> > > elsewhere
> > > > > anyway!! What company is adding an un-necessary 60mb or so file to
> > their
> > > > > product download? Hmmm....That's very interesting. You_did_"buy"_it,
> > > > didn't
> > > > > you??
> > > >
> > > > Sorry to burst your bubble, but I just happened to go to this page:
> > > > http://www.aonix.com/Products/CSDS/oa.win.free2.html
> > > > a.. Full Special Edition (77 MB)
> > > > Includes all Core and Help files plus Internet Explorer and Sun Java
> > > > Development Kit (JDK).
> > >
> > > And what about this??
> > > "Please note that the Permissions/Copyright Group will not grant special
> > > permission rights to redistribute Microsoft Internet Explorer (and/or
> any
> > > components thereof)."
> > > at:
> > > http://www.microsoft.com/permission/copyrgt/cop-soft.htm#IE
> > >
> > > dang, foiled again?
> >
> > Then how can magazines distribue it on CDs? And ISPs?
>
> I haven't seen that happening since early in the existence of IE4. IE is now
> built in to Windows, why does an ISP have to distribute it these days? The
> Alan guy was attempting to fib and got caught. He didn't buy any software
> which included IE in the download. He got caught and has now taken the smart
> course of shutting the fuck up. End of story.
>
> The company in the link you posted is most likely breaking the law, but I
> would have to see the EULA of the browser they are distributing to prove it.
You appear to be in the misapprehension that a license agreement you
have with Microsoft has the same scope as a law of the country. Nothing
refrains Microsoft from making different arrangements with different
customers. You can't distribute the copy of IE you've got, because of
your license agreement, but this doesn't mean anything about how other
licenses will read. Usually redistribution licenses aren't to be found
on MS site, because they're not standard. I have here in front of me a
CD from PC Magazine of January 2001, including IE 5.5.
For a software company relying on some DLL's which are bundled with IE,
it makes sense to make sure that customers have the proper version of IE
installed.
For a customer buying software, knowing that they take advantage of IE
may be a good reason to select a different product. But that's another
matter.
--
Giuliano Colla
------------------------------
From: LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Q:Windows NT scripting?
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:14:19 GMT
Chronos Tachyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Fri 06 Apr 2001 09:38, Stephen S. Edwards II wrote:
> [Snip]
>> Of course the system will fail if the display
>> system fails. The GDI is an integrated part of
>This is a good thing? :-/
It is a good thing for 99% of users, if it means the whole will run
better. The question is not whether a GUI is necessary (that was
decided long ago), the question is how efficient and stable can it be.
LShaping
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 18:28:53 -0400
The Danimal wrote:
>
> Toby A Inkster Esq wrote:
> >
> > In our last episode, Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> >
> > :It will be rather interesting if
> > :Linux becomes the defacto standard on chinese computers, and even if Linux has a
> > :20% share in the Chinese OS market, that will equal 240 Million copies, thus
> > :definitely putting it a serious position.
> >
> > That assumes every citizen of China has their own PC. I think that is
> > quite an assumption.
>
> It won't be after another 5 or 10 years, as Moore's Law continues to
> pound down hardware prices. By the year 2010, a Linux-capable PC will
> probably cost less than a Chinese bicycle, even if we factor in
> probable software bloat.
>
> Once the cost of the hardware gets down to giveaway levels, the cost
> of the software becomes pretty much the whole system cost. That's
> probably enough to motivate a lot of Chinese people to figure out
> regular expressions, shell commands, and all the other Unix arcana
> and incantations they will have to spend years of their lives mastering
> to get their "free" software to work. (How many hours would the average
> person need, starting with no prior computer knowledge, to master a
> book such as O'Reilly's _Unix Power Tools_? And that's just an overview
> to get you started.)
>
> The wild card in the mix is the outside chance that someone in the
> Linux community will pull his head out of his ass long enough to
> address the real problem. Namely, Linux desperately needs someone
> to build the killer Linux app: an expert system with a natural
> language interface that can accurately simulate 95% or more of
> what a (human) Unix system administrator does.* If you put that
> on Linux for free, it would be goodbye Bill Gates. Even if Bill
> put the same thing on Windows he'd have real trouble charging
> any money for it, because the expert interface would become the
> key feature, not the OS back-end.
>
> Currently ((Linux) + (a human Linux expert)) = a great system.
> Linux without any human expertise is a useless piece of garbage.
You obviously have not looked at Linux in several years.
EVERY current version of the Linux distributions produces a
working DESKTOP configuration, which, even in their worst
state, using all default set-ups...produces a MUCH better
system than anything Mafia$oft sells.
> Put the expertise INTO THE SYSTEM and it will be unstoppable.
> That is why Windows is winning on the desktop: it's a less-capable
> system in many ways, but it embeds somewhat more expertise. Part
> of that expertise is knowing which features to leave out so as to
> avoid confusing lusers with them. Obviously we need to do better
> than that.
>
> *What does the administrator do? Basically, he (it's almost always a
> "he") listens to the largely incoherent natural-language gibberings
> of people who know nothing about computers, gradually gets to know
> them and their needs, and synthesizes the Unix incantations necessary
> to solve their problems.
>
> To get an idea of what that expertise involves, go buy a few
> hundred kilograms of books on Linux admistration and natural language
> processing. The barest minimum first stab at the problem would be
> to write a comprehensive Linux super-FAQ containing detailed case
> studies and examples answering every "How do I?" question any
> Linux user ever asks, or would ask if he understood what he was
> trying to do. Each FAQ entry should have a canonical wording
> plus entries for every known synonym or variant wording people
> might use to phrase the same question.
Here's the problem...ALL COMPUTERS are complicated things.
The computer is not a toaster, nor will it ever be a toaster.
One single logic gate alone is more complicated than an entire
toaster.
Mafia$oft tries to hide the complicated part...but...all they
do is make it even more difficult to keep the system from crashing
due to conflicts...
>
> The next step is to build a natural language interface capable
> of mapping arbitrary incoherent human expressions of need into
> the appropriate FAQ references. This need not happen in one step.
> Even human experts have to narrow down client needs by iteratively
> hypothesizing what the clients are gibbering about and then posing
> questions to the clients to refine their hypotheses. If the average
> human ignoramus knew how to express what he wants unambiguously
> on the first attempt he'd already be able to use a computer.
> Computers are generally difficult to use because computers are
> generally poor at communicating their capabilities and limitations
> to people, and people are poor at communicating their needs to the
> computer.** Since improving people is not a viable option in the
> short term, the only recourse is to improve the computer's ability
> to (a) explain itself to people and (b) figure out what people want to
> do.
>
> Ideally the Linux knowledge base should be capable of automatically
> mining new expertise from all the Linux newsgroups and any new
> books that come out. Either this could work by having people
> running their own individual expert programs that would seek
> to become even more expert in given domains, or else some
> central authority would supervise the expert training process
> and issue certified updates.
>
> **The fact that hardly any human can write a short 1000 word
> essay with no errors of spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc.
> indicates that people generally suck at communicating. There
> seems to be a general rule that people who make mistakes at
> the low levels of syntax and semantics tend to make mistakes
> at similar rates at the higher levels of pragmatics and discourse.
> I.e., a person who can't spell usually can't plan or synthesize
> much better.
Most people are idiots. Idiots who expect to get top performance
out of the most complicated devices ever manufactured, without
learning ANYTHING about it are.... displaying their idiocy
>
> --- the Danimal
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
From: Mathew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 09:02:48 +1000
On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> "Scott D. Erb" wrote:
> >
> > > Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Scott D. Erb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > However, I suspect Marx would be spinning in
> > > > > his grave to see his ideas associated with Stalin or Mao. Ideological
> > > > > development is complex.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have to address this before I address anything else, because I think this
> > > > is pivotal.
> > > > Marx was a monster. If you read Manifesto you will find:
> >
> > Marx was naive. He believed that if you got rid of capitalism you could have
>complete
> > liberty, the state would whither away, you would end exploitation. He was
>motivated
> > by the industrial slums, and how horrid the workers were paid. He wanted the
>workers
> > to rise up against that, and believed if they did they could collectively control
>the
> > means of production and everyone would be better off.
>
>
> And yet, you still promote the policies based on the theories of this
> man WHO YOU HAVE JUST ADMITTED was a fool.
And you promoted dealing with a totalitarian facist fundamentalist Iran.
Now tell me how you are not a Commuinist?
>
>
> >
> > He was wrong. Dead wrong. Tragically wrong. But there is no way Marx or Engels
>(and
> > I've read a lot of their private writings, including a lot of Engels stuff in the
> > original German) would have ever supported the kind of brutal tactics of a Stalin,
>Mao
> > or Pol Pot.
>
>
> And yet, you still push for the kinds of policies which can ONLY be
> successfully implemented by a Stalin, Mao, or Pol P
> Why is that?
>
>
> >
> > > > 1. Complete liquidation of private property
> > > > 2. Liquidation of the family, introduction of "official, open mutual
> > > > ownership of wives"
> > > > 3. Children taken from families are brought up by community (Hillary,
> > > > hello!)
> > > > 4. Industrial armies, not employer - employee, (and that is from the guy who
> > > > LOVES proletariat!)
> > > > 5. Central credit by central banks with total banking monopoly for the
> > > > State.
> > > > 6. Age when children start working - 9 years of age (Resolution of Geneva
> > > > International Congress).
> > > >
> > > > If this is not the most monstrous document in the history of the
> > > > civilization, please, state which one is.
> > > >
> > > > This system was implemented four times almost totally - in Hitler's
> > > > concentration camps, Stalin's GULAG and Mao's re-educational settlements and
> > > > Pol Pots' Cambodia camps.
> > > > Partially - USSR, Red China, Vietnam, North Korea.
> > > > Superficially - Poland, E. Germany, Hungary, Mongolia, Czeckoslovakia
> > > >
> > > > Why would Marx be spiining other than out of excitment?
> > > > Typical (I hate this word) socialist attitude - they all have aberrated
> > > > Marx. NO! THEY DIDN'T!
> > > > All socialists remain civilized untill they seize the power. Then the
> > > > Marxist bestiary begins.
> > > > EVERY TIME.
> >
> > Marx was fantasizing about what he thought would lead to a utopia. He was wrong.
> He
> > thought the state would whither away, it didn't. His goal was to end alienation
>and
> > create perfect liberty, his ideas did not lead that direction. His errors were
> > typical of 19th century social science (over-determination, bad predictions), and
> > ultimately the errors in his theories helped lead to the kinds of horror you
> > describe. But to demonize Marx personally because of that is simply misguided,
>and of
> > course irrelevant.
> >
> > At the very least now Social Democrats and most leftists recognize that the vision
>of
> > "scientific socialism" espoused by Lenin and the Communists was not only wrong, but
> > evil in its actions. Social Democracy does not lead to the kind of evil you
> > describe. Sweden has no gulags, Norway is not run like Pol Pot's China. You're
> > overstating your case. The danger comes not from Marx, but from any attempt to
> > centralize power to try to shape society without that power being accountable to
>the
> > people. Marx was dead wrong not to understand or realize that, but I am convinced
> > that he and Engels personally would have been appalled by what later was done in
>their
> > name. Their theory was a failure, but to demonize them is simply silly.
> > cheers, scott
> > http://violet.umf.maine.edu/~erb/
>
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
>
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 11:07:57 +1200
Thats taking in account if 20% of the population have a computer, and considering
the heavy handed tactics of their government, there may be even legislation to
ensure that only linux is installed on these machines.
Matthew Gardiner
Toby A Inkster Esq wrote:
> In our last episode, Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> :It will be rather interesting if
> :Linux becomes the defacto standard on chinese computers, and even if Linux has a
> :20% share in the Chinese OS market, that will equal 240 Million copies, thus
> :definitely putting it a serious position.
>
> That assumes every citizen of China has their own PC. I think that is
> quite an assumption.
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you do not like it go: [rm -rf /home/luser] and
have a nice day :)
------------------------------
From: Chronos Tachyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Q:Windows NT scripting?
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 23:07:16 GMT
On Fri 06 Apr 2001 05:14, LShaping wrote:
> Chronos Tachyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On Fri 06 Apr 2001 09:38, Stephen S. Edwards II wrote:
>
>> [Snip]
>>> Of course the system will fail if the display
>>> system fails. The GDI is an integrated part of
>
>>This is a good thing? :-/
>
> It is a good thing for 99% of users, if it means the whole will run
> better. The question is not whether a GUI is necessary (that was
> decided long ago), the question is how efficient and stable can it be.
> LShaping
>
The problem, of course, is that efficient and stable are pretty much
mutually exclusive at this point in time. Windows chooses efficiency
(although XFree 4.0 has made great strides in this area), while X chooses
stability of the system.
--
Chronos Tachyon
Guardian of Eristic Paraphernalia
Gatekeeper of the Region of Thud
[Reply instructions: My real domain is "echo <address> | cut -d. -f6,7"]
------------------------------
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