Linux-Advocacy Digest #1, Volume #34 Fri, 27 Apr 01 18:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Women's rights and responsibilities. (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (Mayor Of R'lyeh)
Re: Tired of XEMACS, moving to VIM (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Bill Hudson admits that he, Dave Casey, V-man and Redc1c4 are liars.
("billh")
Re: Women's rights and responsibilities. (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Another example of Microsoft not living in the real world: ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Importance, or lack, of Marketshare? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Importance, or lack, of Marketshare? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Microsoft hit new security 'level' :-) ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: MS and ISP's (William Shakespeare)
Re: Windows 2K is crappy: a couple of examples ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Windows 2K is crappy: a couple of examples ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Windows 2K is crappy: a couple of examples ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: e: Feminism ==> subjugation of males (Ray Fischer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 21:32:08 GMT
"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:13:15 GMT, Daniel Johnson
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip- Windows built on CP/M]
> I wonder if it would have been nearly as successful, MS not being able
> to control CP/M and all.
>
> More likely, Digital Research would have been the one building a popular
> GUI on top of their OS.
I don't think so. It's not impossible, but I suspect
it would still have been Microsoft.
Historically, Digital Research did *try* to put a GUI on
top of DOS- the result was called GEM.
GEM was not very good, compared even to early
Windows.
I think two factors account for this.
Firstly, Microsoft was in at the ground floor of *Macintosh*
app development. They undoubtably learned a lot from the
experience.
For instance, GEMs internal design seems to have been rather
weak. No regions, for instance. Regions are a signature Mac
Toolbox thing that Windows, um, borrowed. They are
the magic that allowed the "fake" overlapping Windows
that Xerox had to become the "real" ones the Mac had-
and that Windows had. Same technology, essentially.
There's some other stuff I can point to if desired.
Secondly, Apple sued GEM to protect Apples "copyright"
on their user interface, and GEM buckled under and seriously
compromised their design to placate Apple.
Microsoft, by contrast, cut a deal at first, but a much
more permissive one. And eventually they just gave up on
compromise and, in due course, beat Apple in court on this
point.
I see no evidence that the early differences between
GEM and Windows had anything to do with who owned
DOS. I admit that the transition to Windows 95 did
depend upon this- but had CP/M been king, Windows 95
would effectivaly have meant migrating everyone to
*Microsoft's* CP/M clone in the process.
Compatibility problems would have been a bit more
common in that case, but not insuperable. Consider
how much OS/2 2.0 was able to do. It could have
been managed.
For GEM to be where MS is now, it would have
to be GEM that got in on early Mac app development,
and GEM that had friskly lawyers.
It's all hypothetical, but that's how I see it.
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 21:32:11 GMT
"Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Daniel Johnson wrote:
[snip]
> > > MS_DOS was low cost and the others were artificially high.
> >
> > Presumably their makers throught they were worth it.
>
> No, the costs of other OS's were artificially high.
Out of morbid curiousity: What the heck does "artificially high"
mean here?
> They M$ started up
> the per preocessor licesnses. Vendos would have had to pay for -2- OS
> licenses per machine if they bundled anything but M$ OS's
No, but they would have had to pay more had they
split their lineups. The fewer copies of Windows they
put out they more they had to pay per copy.
They could still *do* it.
But given that their customers wanted Windows,
it would have made no sense to pay more.
[snip]
> > As I said, IBM offered three choices and MS-DOS was
> > the one consumers favored early on. But that didn't
> > matter much- had (say) CP/M won out, Microsoft
> > could still have persued their Windows strategy
> > by running Windows on CP/M.
> >
>
> Yeah. Right.
Sure. Microsoft have engineers that, if nothing
else, are amazingly good at hacking stuff like that
together.
They made OLE run on MacOS. That should tell
you what they were capable of.
Putting Windows on CP/M instead of MS-DOS
would have been no problem.
> > Microsoft's volume discounts were no doubt helpful
> > in a general way later on, but hardly a primary factor.
>
> Volume licenses... oh, you mean the ones that state dyou had to pay for
> an M$ OS wether you shipped one or not.. those licenses?
MS would sell you Windows even if you didn't put out
so many copies as they wanted. But they charged more for
that.
> > OEMs, after all, had to be shipped volume before volume
> > discounts made any sense for them.
>
> I think you should re-examine your history.
I don't think I should. I think you are getting cause and effect
mixed up, and exageratting a few details to boot.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.men
Subject: Re: Women's rights and responsibilities.
Date: 27 Apr 2001 21:38:55 GMT
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:45:33 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> Chad Everett wrote:
> Consider the fact that upon graduation, an undergraduate Physics major
> is expected to understand everything that Einstein knew about physics,
> and more.
Including general relativity, and the associated math (eg differential
geometry) ? Yeah, right.
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: Mayor Of R'lyeh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:37:23 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:13:51 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lars
Träger) chose to bless us with this bit of wisdom:
>Eric Remy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Still doesn't. The Greeks knew the Earth was round. Eratosthenes got
>> the circumference to within 15% of the actual value.
>>
>> Ironically, a set of experts convened by King Ferdinand turned Columbus
>> down since they knew by Eratosthenes's measurements that he couldn't
>> possibly make it to India. Columbus didn't believe the measurement and
>> made his own, incorrect one. Had North America not existed he would
>> have died.
>
>Wasn't his goal Cathai (China)?
>
>Lars T.
AIRC his goal was India but his first voyage was more of a proof of
concept sort of thing; done just to show it could be done. He probably
would have been happy with any location in the East.
--
"It was disgusting. There were body parts everywhere.
Visitors like to think the Austrian hills are alive
with the sound of music, not exploding cows. It must
be stopped."
Fritz Amann
Vice-president of Vorarlberg province
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To:
gnu.emacs.help,alt.religions.vim,alt.religion.emacs,fj.editor.vi,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Tired of XEMACS, moving to VIM
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 21:39:50 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, those who know me have no need of my name
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on 27 Apr 2001 09:07:21 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
><9c9g2j$cfh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> divulged:
>
>>: real men use punch cards.
>>
>>And use a bowie knife to cut the holes; you just have to be careful
>>not to cut yourself when you square off the corners.
>
>careful of the chad!
Indeed. It might be pregnant.
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- probably because it had such nice dimples... :-)
EAC code #191 11d:15h:29m actually running Linux.
[ ] Do you want this message to be private? Oops, too late.
------------------------------
From: "billh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army,soc.singles,soc.men,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.military.folklore
Subject: Re: Bill Hudson admits that he, Dave Casey, V-man and Redc1c4 are
liars.
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 21:42:12 GMT
"Ayende Rahien"
> I would like to warn you that Aaron is a well known troll, facts, logic,
or
> common sense doesn't seem to matter to him.
On uma we know him for the liar and "war-hero" wannabe he truly is.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: Women's rights and responsibilities.
Date: 27 Apr 2001 21:44:57 GMT
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:40:26 -0700, jet wrote:
>
> Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I haven't made up my mind on this issue, but there are some major
> differences here. (At least in CA) When you sign up for a driver's licensee,
> you consent to being tested of alcohol.
>
> But the child is an innocent 3rd party.
The child is receiving money by proxy, since the child support payments are
supposed to be for the child.
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another example of Microsoft not living in the real world:
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:47:13 -0500
"Roy Culley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <9c90jc$ts9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18505.html
> >
> > As quoted from the article:
> >
> > "According to Microsoft's Windows Logo Program System and Device
> > Requirements, WinXP Personal (i.e., the consumer flavour) has a minimum
> > requirement of 64 megabytes, in line with Win98 (we do still mention it
> > then) and WinME. WinXP mobile is also specced to run in 64, while the
> > requirement for the Professional version is 128. You'll be wanting a gig
of
> > RAM for the Itanium one, it says here."
> >
> > 1gig for Itanium! Does Microsoft just assume a business has a bag of
> > million dollar notes sitting in their store cubbord? 128MB for
> > Professional! and remember, thats Microsofts "recommended", x2, and you
get
> > the realistic amount of memory. Microsoft claimed 64MB for Windows 2000
> > Pro, when in the real world, you would need atleast 128MB to run at a
> > decent speed. When I Microsoft going to realise that if they want to
move
> > the maximum number of people to this new platform, decrease the system
> > requirements by de-bloating and de-bugging it, or else the penguin will
> > bite your ass.
>
> Me thinks this is an advertising ploy from Microsoft. For sure Itanium
ain't
> going to be on the average desktop. In fact it will be promoted for the
high
> performance server market. 1GB is nothing on such servers these days. The
> 1GB requirement is to show this is for a real power system. Of course I
> could be completely wrong and Microsoft are admitting just how crappy
their
> OS is and that 2GB will be a minimum requirement just to get the thing
> ticking over. Surely Microsoft aren't that crap? :-)
Not only that, but 1GB of memory costs about $200.
If you want ECC, it's about $500. Not a big deal for anyone running a big
server.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Importance, or lack, of Marketshare?
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:54:18 -0500
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > I don't know what the new zealand dollar is compared to the US dollar,
but
> > can it be that bad? Win2k Pro is only $295 US.
>
> Sorry, but that's way overpriced! Solaris 8 is only $75 for the CD-ROM
> set. And it's good for more than just one computer. They also provide
> StarOffice 5.2. And then you have to add in the "Wife" constant! (What
> is it good for?) Wasn't hard after I got it.
Great, except that Solaris 8 only runs on a very small subset of hardware.
If you're talking about Solaris on Sparc, you have to remember that Sun
includes the price of the OS in their hardware.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Importance, or lack, of Marketshare?
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:54:58 -0500
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9c8ve5$t0q$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Also take in account that the average salary in New Zealand is
$22,000,
> > and
> > > most people have to prioritise, either by a ligit copy of Windows at
$300
> > > or pay the rent. Most people would rather pay the rent. Hence
Microsoft
> > > is the cause of the digital divide. Go into a store, take $300 off
the
> > > price of the computer and you have the price of the computer without
> > > Windows, and in some cases, it could mean the difference of a computer
> > > being sold or not.
> >
> > The OEM does not pay $300 (which I assume to be about $100 US) for
Windows.
> > They pay about US $45 in most cases.
>
> Gee! That's odd! How come at COSTCO in Seattle that Windows 98SE is $80
> to just upgrade?? Mind you that COSTCO is a WHOLESALER!
> Your figures don't add up!
Wholesale of RETAIL products, not Wholesale of OEM products.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft hit new security 'level' :-)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:57:03 -0500
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9cbcsl$adm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Now it says 'security fix files' have been infected with a virus. How
> >> does this not substantiate my subject? What's an admin supposed to do?
As
> >> soon as they hear about a patch for a security bug they should download
> >> and install. Next thing they know their systems are infected. It is
hard
> >> enough keeping up with Microsoft security patches (over 2 security bugs
> >> per week in 2000 for Microsoft software - a record) without having to
> >> check if they are infected as well.
> >
> > How is 2 bugs a week a record? I see dozens of patches a week to Linux.
> >
> > If you find keeping up with MS patches difficult, you must be literally
> > livid about keeping up with Linux patches.
>
> Have you ever used UNIX before, because most people will know is that as
> soon as a fix becomes available, the company/distro posts it, compared to
> Microsoft where you have to wait 3 months for a service pack that is not
> guaranteed to fix the problems you are facing. I would rather more
> patches, than waiting in limbo for two months hoping that my server
doesn't
> crash because I was waiting for the next service pack to be released.
What does that have to do with "keeping up" with the number of fixes?
In any event, MS releases "hot fixes". There are quite a few of them, and
they come out between service packs.
>
> Matthew Gardiner
> --
> Disclaimer:
>
> I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
>
> If you don't like it, you can go [# rm -rf /home/luser] yourself
>
> Running SuSE Linux 7.1
>
> The best of German engineering, now in software form
>
>
------------------------------
From: William Shakespeare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: MS and ISP's
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:57:59 -0700
Tomaz Cedilnik wrote:
>
> "T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> > after all. And as far as being "only" able to use it, that's due to
> > MS's illegal activity, not any lack of competence on my part. I can
> > also use Solaris, HP-UX, SCO, Linux, Mac, and probably any other OS you
> > throw at me. Ironically, as you noted, I am instead using the crappiest
> > one of the bunch: Windows.
>
> Why?
>
> What illegal activities are the reason you can use windows "only"?
I cannot speak for T. but the reason I am using Windows is mostly
because there are certain apps I really like that only run on
Windows. Also, the only way I can access Internet video is with
Windows. The only way I can use voice chat or IP telephony is with
Windows. Also, my subwoofers on my speakers will only work with
Windows. If I want to use a webcam, I can only use Windows. I also
have OS/2 on disk here but it is too hard and lacks some apps I like.
I think Linux is way too hard for me. Be has a serious lack of apps
and drivers. BSD and the other Unixen are way too hard and may mean
buying a new box. Mac means buying a new box and once again I cannot
use some apps.
I really hate MS and but I am stuck with them, like million of
others. MS' stated plan all along has been to force you to use their
shit. That is the way with all despicable monopolies. Study
economics.
--
Bill
"The second thing we do, let's kill all the editors." Edited out of
Henry IV, Part I.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2K is crappy: a couple of examples
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:01:18 -0500
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9cbc0b$g7u$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > I recently upgraded the CD burner in my dual-boot win98se / mandrake
> >> > 7.2 machine from a 2x2x6 speed unit to a 12x10x32 speed unit - the
> >> > result on booting into linux was the system showed no indication that
> >> > the hardware had changed but burning a CDRW disc resulted in a
> >> > complete disc in about
> > 6
> >> SIX MINUTES!!!! ouch! My Ricoh 8*8*32 takes a full ten minutes, under
> >> Linux (no Windows, dont'
> > touch
> >> the stuff myself)!
> >
> > My Yamaha 16X/10X/40X does it in about 5 :)
> >
> > It was actually quite cheap, less than $200.
>
> One of my friends got one of them recently. Unfortunately, 10x CDRWs are
> quite hard to come by round here (and 16X CDs still aren't as common as
> 12X ones, even their the same price (!)).
I use the 8x media and haven't had a problem burning at 16x (and I've burned
probably 30 cd's already in the few weeks i've owned it). It has some kind
of new technology called BURN (Buffer UnderRuN protection) and doesn't seem
to burn any coasters, and i've verified the CD's as being completely error
free.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2K is crappy: a couple of examples
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:03:50 -0500
"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 00:20:58 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > "Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> > I recently upgraded the CD burner in my dual-boot win98se / mandrake
7.2
> >> > machine from a 2x2x6 speed unit to a 12x10x32 speed unit - the result
on
> >> > booting into linux was the system showed no indication that the
hardware
> >> > had changed but burning a CDRW disc resulted in a complete disc in
about
> > 6
> >> SIX MINUTES!!!! ouch!
> >> My Ricoh 8*8*32 takes a full ten minutes, under Linux (no Windows,
dont'
> > touch
> >> the stuff myself)!
> >
> > My Yamaha 16X/10X/40X does it in about 5 :)
> 5 MINUTES!!
> Smoking ...
Indeed. I'm very impressed with it. I thought I would have to burn at 8x
most of the time because of media constraints, but I find burining with 8x
CD's at 16x to be error-free.
> > It was actually quite cheap, less than $200.
> Excellent, mine was $345 Australian,which is equivalent to about $172
American
> atm :(
>
> Tell me Eric, can you read a iso9660 image as a file system under Windows
> before you burn the image to a CD (for testing) ?
I'm not sure what you mean precisely. If you mean, can you access the files
in the image without burning, there are a number of programs to do so. I
don't specifically know of one that mounts it as a file system though (there
could be, but i've never had the need).
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2K is crappy: a couple of examples
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:05:09 -0500
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Actually I should have read on to further posts, as this question was
> > answered by Eric in a later post.
> >
> > When I posted this, I thought 'load and unload' allowed users to
> > install whatever drivers they liked.
> >
> > Aparently it only means users can load and unload drivers installed on
the
> > system by the superuser.
>
> If it's so benign, then how come it isn't the default?
>
> What's to stop someone from, say, unloading the SCSI driver?
You don't usually give such rights to people you don't trust. What's to
stop someone from sending low-level commands to the burner and causing it to
lock the SCSI bus?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ray Fischer)
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: e: Feminism ==> subjugation of males
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 22:05:12 GMT
Brent R <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Math is not harder than any other topic. That it is
>> is a self perpetuating myth. Thankfully for my daughters,
>> my wife majored in math and is an actuary.
>>
>> Both daughters love math and do great at it. My twelve year
>> old wants to solve the Twin Prime Conjecture (she also wants
>> to cure cancer using molecular biology, so we will see where
>> she ends up).
>
>People who brag about their kids irritate me.
Seconded. Besides, my kids are cuter than his anyway. :-)
--
Ray Fischer When you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks
[EMAIL PROTECTED] into you -- Nietzsche
------------------------------
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