Linux-Advocacy Digest #314, Volume #34 Tue, 8 May 01 04:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why does Flatfoot feel so threatened? (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Where can I find a Linux Badge? (GreyCloud)
Re: bank switches from using NT 4 ("Tom Wilson")
Re: where's the linux performance? (robert bronsing)
Re: the Boom, Boom department (Terry Porter)
Re: Cold feet or Reality Check? ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Windows NT: lost in space? (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Windows NT: lost in space? ("Tom Wilson")
Re: Now push hard (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Windos is *unfriendly* (Terry Porter)
Re: Windos is *unfriendly* (Terry Porter)
Re: Windows makes good coasters ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Windows makes good coasters ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Linux a Miserable Consumer OS ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Windos is *unfriendly* ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Windos is *unfriendly* (Terry Porter)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts (Donn Miller)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why does Flatfoot feel so threatened?
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 19:19:47 +1200
> How do you like the Forte Developer?? Can you tell me if it is better
> than gcc or g++??
> I'm always curious when comparing products.
>
If you run the intel version of Solaris, it is a waste of money,
however, the benefit of Forte Developer is a full IDE interface, drag'n
drop, C++ coding (without the need for a make file). However, the draw
back is its price, around $2k, however, I was lucky as I have a mate
(mate = friend) who works there, hence, I got a copy for free.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where can I find a Linux Badge?
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 00:23:30 -0700
Paolo Ciambotti wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Brent R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > A Linux pocket-protector would probably be more appropriate...
>
> I have one of those. It was a bitch scraping off the Windows logo just so
> I could ink a Tux on it, but it was worth it.
BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! GOOD ONE!
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: bank switches from using NT 4
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 07:24:04 GMT
"Steve Sheldon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9d7ugc$fj6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:o0xJ6.7186$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > I can remember back in the early eighties when they proposed a Zilog-Z80
> > based home computer standard (Trying as hard as I can to remember the
name
> > of the thing. ASX keeps coming to mind, but, I'm sure that's the wrong
> > acronym) It was light-years behind what Apple and Commodore had already
> > done. Their marketing effot over here died as quickly as it started.
> That's
> > the only time I can remember them being so clueless when it came to
> > technology.
>
> It was called MSX. I don't agree that it was light-years behind,
> considering at the time it came out ('83 or so) both of those companies
had
> some pretty stagnant hardware they were selling.
>
> Found some info on it, if you are interested:
> http://www.komkon.org/fms/MSX/MSX.faq
I remember most of it from the trade journals at the time. The thing about
utilizing the Zilog Z80 is what sank it . Motorolla based systems would have
been a far better choice. There were far better choices for the sound chip
as well. You have to remember that computers with Amiga-like abilities were
just becoming possible. MSX was viewed as a big step backwards.
Surprised to learn it lasted as long as it did. I also wasn't aware that
Sinclair had such a heavy role. Thanks for the link.
>
> > That sort of backwards compatability has been a big thorn in MS's side.
> (Why
> > upgrade when the old stuff works fine?) It won't surprise me to see
legacy
> > obsolescence happen a lot sooner with XP. Especially if their efforts at
> > diversifying don't bear fruit.
>
> The backwards compatibility isn't a thorn, it is the selling feature of
the
> Microsoft products.
One that has lead to total market saturation and a totally matured product
line (Office) that they can do little, feature-wise, with to entice buyers
to newer versions. Planned obsolescence is the only path they can take to
keep milking money from it.
> > > Now - sure, MS could do what you propose. Come out with Windows -3112
> "The
> > > Antiupgrade" and have it rewritten from the ground up by european
teens
> on
> > X
> > > supporting only the very latest popular standards and just ignoring
> > > everything that is "uncool" in the scene at that minute and just
ignore
> > the
> > > VAST installed userbase and blow off every single manufacturer and ISV
> and
> > > force them to grok some new undocumented (documentation is uncool and
> > boring
> > > to true hackerz) APIs...
> > >
> > > <sarcasm>yea, great idea!</sarcasm>
> >
> > Now that's just being silly.
>
> Not really, it's called Linux.
Don't be dim.
Microsoft's alternatives are diversification (X-Box and that TV thing) and
trying to push the subscription model (That fell out of favor years ago when
UNIX was practicing it. Their backpedaling on it yesterday wasn't really
that surprising.)
The office suite has been milked for all its' worth.
------------------------------
From: robert bronsing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: where's the linux performance?
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 09:26:38 +0200
Hey Ian,
thanks, i'll be sure to check it out.
Ian Pulsford wrote:
>
> robert bronsing wrote:
> >
> > Ok, this is interesting. I am by now reasonably comfortable using
> > slackware at home. All the things you mention I can do. So, why switch
> > to BSD? What is better in BSD than in Linux?
> >
>
> Linux distributions are messy, they are a cacaphony of various packages
> plucked from here and there. FreeBSD is a complete and integrated OS
> maintained by a stable group of developers and it shows: good man pages,
> clean layout of directories, consistency (core OS lives in /usr, all
> ports live in /usr/local), ports/packages. It has a better virtual
> memory system (I've *ahem* tested it: had 500M of swap eaten by an app
> in a 64M machine and FreeBSD was still relatively robust).
> Here's a link with some other features:
> http://defcon1.org/About_Us/News/Upcoming_Articles/VNC/Choose-FBSD/choose-fbsd.html
> Overall, a more professional OS than any Linux distro I've ever used.
>
> IanP
--
Robert Bronsing
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: the Boom, Boom department
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 08 May 2001 07:26:59 GMT
On Mon, 07 May 2001 02:14:27 +0100,
Darren Wyn Rees <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is disappointing looking at the games installed with
> most of the current Linux distributions.
>
Its interesting to me that most distos dont include any
really good Linux games.
Because there are plenty of them.
My kids played Quake (commercial game, so wont be on any disto), Freeciv
which is a excellent networkable game, Koules which is a SVGA game, but
they howled over it for about a week, 5 kids on the ONE keyboard!
Koules sound is excellent too.
Then they played network scrabble, this was very popular.
Network tetris actually started fights in our house, as kids
got so worked up, when beaten.
I also must comment that the original poster posted his
critisism of Linux's games from Windows, and that OS, comes with
no games of any import, or fun, in my experience.
Most of the Linux games are FREE, but you do have to find them
on-line, if they aren't included in your $15 3 CD disto.
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Cold feet or Reality Check?
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 07:35:54 GMT
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Mikkel Elmholdt wrote:
> >
> > "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:UCvJ6.7172$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> >
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/cn/20010505/tc/microsoft_shelves_office_xp_subs
> > > cription_plan_1.html
> > >
> > > You be the judge...
> >
> > Naaaaa ... as far as I can see, there's no talk about removing the
"feature"
> > about having to register your copy of XP over the Internet (that would
have
> > been nice). This subscription stuff is IMO a minor thing, compared to
that.
> > Some Open Source companies. like Red Hat (i.e. Red Hat Network), are
also
> > doing something along the same lines (or talking about doing it).
> >
> > Much more "interesting" is the apparent plan to refuse Office 95 owners
an
> > upgrade. (Take that, you cheap SOBs ...)
> >
> > Mikkel
>
> So, you're rich I see! Why should anyone throw out software if it works
> for them?
> All the better to sway them to Linux.
If they attempt to twist peoples arms to upgrade or subscribe, what'll
happen is a lot of bootlegging of their older software. MS is kind of damned
if you do damned if you don't at this point. They need to find new pastures.
This one is grazed out.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows NT: lost in space?
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 19:41:15 +1200
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Matthew Gardiner wrote:
> >
> > > Well, Mir *did* last for over twice as long as initially intended
> > > (IIRC), so a few glitches near the end have to be expected.
> > > Maybe the Russians can use the Windows source code and help
> > > NASA fix a few of the bugs in it ;)
> > The Russians are very good programmers, I have used several anti-virus
> > tools by Russian software companies (for Windows), and they are far
> > superior to what the likes of Symantec and McAfee have to offer.
> >
>
> Yes...they are a nation of chess-players, compared to the US, which
> is a nation of poker-players.
>
> when it comes to this sort of algorithm development, the chess-player's
> mind will always be the best for the task
>
Mind you, wouldn't you play chess if you lived in Siberia, from negative
50 degrees celcius during the winter to a max of 35-40 degrees celcius
during the summer.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows NT: lost in space?
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 07:45:48 GMT
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
<snip>
> > Yes...they are a nation of chess-players, compared to the US, which
> > is a nation of poker-players.
> >
> > when it comes to this sort of algorithm development, the chess-player's
> > mind will always be the best for the task
> >
> Mind you, wouldn't you play chess if you lived in Siberia, from negative
> 50 degrees celcius during the winter to a max of 35-40 degrees celcius
> during the summer.
Explains the massive amounts of Vodka guzzled, too.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Now push hard
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 19:50:58 +1200
> > > By the way, my company is using Starofice for desktop office,
> > > and developing a Java program to substitute gestion one.
> >
> > How are you finding the MS-Conversions in Staroffice? Last time I used
> > it it still had quite a few errors (some subtle - some not), but I am
>
> More likely, the errors are in MS..
>
Doesn't concern me, I use Wordperfect, which has almost a 99% coversion
accurancy. The only problem I may face is when converting from
Presentations to PowerPoint, text move out of place, but besides that
little nagging problem, it is pretty good. 4 days, and still enjoying
Wordperfect 2000 for Linux. Mind you, I went to a university that used
Microsoft as an example of bad programming, design, implementation, when
studing systems and program design Microsoft was used in EVERY example,
funny enough, in the OS module, UNIX was considered a "real OS", or as
the lecturer put it, "Built like a brick shit house".
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Windos is *unfriendly*
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 08 May 2001 07:51:23 GMT
On Sun, 06 May 2001 20:28:59 GMT,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Terry Porter wrote:
>
>>> Unlikely. It doesn't take a degree to figure out networking.
>>
>> No but it takes a MCSE (at least) to figure out Windos networking :)
>
> Really? You think it's _that_ complex?
I did networking for about 3 years and had nothing but trouble with
Windows, so I did find Windows difficult to network.
I think that the complexity is less of an issue than the way that
Windows forces one to impliment it.
Its further influenced byt the fine control over all aspects
of networking that Linux gives me, unlike Windows where if
the GUI doesnt have the fine control, I'm stuck.
About 3 months ago, I put my Wifes Windows98 pc on our network
and found the whole install a pain in the butt.
Numerous reboots, it failed to detect the NE2000 isa card, and
I had to enter the parameters by hand. At least Windows95 found
them in the past.
It may just be me, I think I've become spoilt by Linux ?
>
> --
> Pete
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Windos is *unfriendly*
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 08 May 2001 07:53:49 GMT
On Sun, 06 May 2001 20:31:12 GMT,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Terry Porter wrote:
>
>>> That explains why I have Windows network up and running and Linux I have
>>> to start DHCP manually.
>> No it doesnt, it also doesn't explain why you couldnt get your NIC working
>> recently.
>
> For someone to say "setting up a Windows network is hard" and then I
> descover it's a breeze, yet the same hardware it is not at all easy, what
> should I conclude?
If you have problems with the same hardware on Linux, then I'd expect
you to feel as I do about Windows ?
Yet you have 2 degrees, and I have none.
What conclusion can you draw from this ?
>
> --
> Pete
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows makes good coasters
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 09:56:34 +0100
>> > It continues to amaze me that the ONLY people having these sorts of
>> > absolute failures under Windows are linux users.
>> >
>> > Are linux users that univerally inadept at running Windows?
>>
>> Jan at his best, dumb and without any clue whatsoever.
>
> I'm not sure why you would call Jan dumb, I found his statement to be
> very close to the truth.
Are you joking?!
Most of us here are competent with computers and were using windows for
yeard before we discovered linux. So most Linux users are more competent
than your average person at using windows as well.
-Ed
--
You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.
u 9 8 e j r (at) e c s . o x . a c . u k
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.linux,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows makes good coasters
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 09:57:26 +0100
> Your system has to be so broken to fail a burn on a current gen burner -
> AND with the latest Burn-Proof technology people like Lite-on and
> Plextor use, it's literally impossible to fail the burn. You can pause
> the entire system with the pause key and the buffer can go to 0% for an
> hour and then resume and continue burning the CD flawlessly.
>
> Of course, I'm sure this support isn't in linux yet...
But then you're stupid, aren't you.
-Ed
--
You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.
u 9 8 e j r (at) e c s . o x . a c . u k
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux a Miserable Consumer OS
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 10:02:40 +0100
>> > As far as
>> >the egg laying thing goes, Platypuses lay eggs and THEY are considered
>> >mammals. Birds are kind of a big question mark. Especially when you
>> >throw
> in
>> >the dinosaur thing.
>>
>> Well, there is this problem about birds being mammals. You know, the
>> mammary issue (and yes, I know the platypus have no nipples).
>
> Frankly, I think birds are a bridge between reptile and mammal. A
> pre-mammal or post-reptile as it were. I don't know what the hell to
> think about the platypus other than its' being an evolutionary fluke
> that somehow survived.
It's farly well agreed on that birds are not a bridge between mammles and
reptiles.
Mammles split off from reptiles before (ahthough there is sme argument
for after) turtles.
Lizards, crocodiles and tuataras split off after mammles. Dinosaurs are
probably a branch off the crocodile line and there is very strong
evinence suggesting birds are a branch off dinsaurs.
This makes birds far more closely related to crocodiles than to mammles.
The platypus branched off very early on which is why it is qute unlike
other mammles.
-Ed
--
You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.
u 9 8 e j r (at) e c s . o x . a c . u k
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windos is *unfriendly*
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 10:04:37 +0100
In article <sdDJ6.18264$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Pete Goodwin"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Edward Rosten wrote:
>
>> Bullshit. If you can do it by hand then you can put the exact same
>> steps in rc.local, or in a bloody cron job if you must.
>>
>> I simply don't believe you in this case.
>
> Then I shall leave you in your ignorance.
Well, since you ignored everything correct I said about printers under
linux, it's safe to assume you did the same with initialsation.
--
You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.
u 9 8 e j r (at) e c s . o x . a c . u k
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Windos is *unfriendly*
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 08 May 2001 08:03:33 GMT
On Mon, 07 May 2001 06:24:26 GMT,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Edward Rosten wrote:
>
>>> Could it be that there's a bug in Linux? Or in the drivers? Not in the
>>> drivel you post?
>>
>> Shut up and stop whinging. Just do what any one of the helpful people
>> have suggested and put a script in rc.local. If you couldn't be arsed to
>> either do that or fix the bug, then you shouldn't be arsed to post
>> either.
>
> Shut up period. I tried various suggestions. None of them worked.
I'm confused now, really confused.
Pete Goodwin is not an idiot, in fact hes a degreed coder, who has
posted under the GPL.
So whats wrong here, why cant Pete fix this problem, or at least email
those maintaining the DHCP stuff and work with them to fix it ?
> --
> Pete
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 10:06:35 +0100
In article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Edward Rosten wrote:
>>
>> > I find that my Epson worked just fine under linux going thru GS. No
>> > problems at all. Even PDF files printed quickly and were no problem.
>>
>> Its not the printer driver thats the problem. Some PDFs seem to choke
>> my version of GS, but I've been through loads of PDFs recently.
>>
>> -ed
>>
>> --
>> You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.
>>
>> u 9 8 e j r (at) e c s . o x . a c . u k
>
> Which version of Gs do you have? That may be a problem.
>
5.1
-Ed
--
You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.
u 9 8 e j r (at) e c s . o x . a c . u k
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 04:08:04 -0400
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> Donn Miller wrote:
>
> >> Windows _asks_ you before you change the time. Did you blindy accept it
> >> or did you bother to _read_ what it was about to do?
> >
> > Depends - does Windows ask you if you use certain Winapi calls to set
> > the time?
>
> Since it asks you on boot up, how can you get to winapi calls?
Ah, I thought you were talking about a Winapi equivalent of the C
library function settimeofday(). It would be very strange indeed if
Windows asked you if you'd like to change the time because of a
settimeofday() call (or whatever the Win32 eq. of that syscall is).
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