Linux-Advocacy Digest #652, Volume #34 Sun, 20 May 01 18:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (JS\PL)
Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft! (Rick)
Things that annoy me in Mandrake Linux (Mig)
Re: Security in Open Source Software (Mig)
Re: Things that annoy me in Mandrake Linux (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Things that annoy me in Mandrake Linux (Mig)
Re: Windows 2000 Service Pack 2 review ("Matthew Gardiner")
Fingerprints (WAY Offtopic) (was: Linux Mandrake Sucks!!!!) (Rob S. Wolfram)
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Linux beats Win2K (again) ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: EXTRA EXTRA MS ADMITS!!!! ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Things that annoy me in Mandrake Linux (David Steinberg)
Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux ("Matthew Gardiner")
Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU! (Peter Hayes)
Re: Why did Eazel shutdown? (Peter Hayes)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 19:45:12 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick wrote:
>Charlie Ebert wrote:
>>
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick wrote:
>> >Howard Johnson wrote:
>> >> {Howard Johnson's post completely deleted}
>> >
>> >No.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Rick
>>
>> Howard Johnson,
>>
>> That is the most completely rediculous thing I've ever heard!
>>
>> --
>> Charlie
>> -------
>
>Hmmm... I wonder what I was trying to do here...
>--
>Rick
Blazzing Saddles!
He's one of the Johnsons!
--
Charlie
=======
------------------------------
From: JS\PL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 16:12:26 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rick wrote:
> # mhz was pretty good for a II. IIRC people have gotten the IIgs up to
> 12ish mhz.
12mhz! My god what a slow peice of shit! I mean...my god!!!
:-)
------------------------------
From: Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Justice Department LOVES Microsoft!
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 16:29:48 -0400
Dan wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > > > > <shrug>So did Apple IIs, with the appropriate
> > > > > upgrade.
> > > >
> > > > The TRS 80s didnt need an upgrade. They ran CP/M out of the box.
> > >
> > > Hmmm? No, I don't think CP/M was included. Perhaps
> > > you mean it was cheaper on the TRS-80 than,
> > > the Apple II?
> > >
> >
> > I dont care what you -think-. Try doing some research. TRS 80's didnt
> > need an upgrade. They could run CP/M out of the box. Apple IIs couldnt.
> > And dont tell me what I mean.
>
> As much as I hate to interrupt this gruesome flame-fest, I need to
> interject some facts:
>
> The only TRS-80 capable of running CP/M "out of the box" in 1981 was the
> Model II. Model Is and IIIs absolutely needed an "upgrade" - unless
> you wanted to run a totally non-standard version of CP/M. Since the
> reason to run CP/M was to use the available software - and that software
> wouldn't run on the non-standard TRS-80 Model I version - there was not
> much point to it.
>
> The "upgrade" consisted of moving the ROMS out of the way to make RAM
> available at the all-important address of 100 hex. This is where all
> standard CP/M programs begin.
>
> Yes, I own (several) Model Is and 4s. I even have CP/M for the 4. I
> don't use it, however. TRS-DOS6/LS-DOS/LDOS is much better.
>
> Dan
I think I may have misread some copy. The Model II doew seemt ot be the
only one that ran CP/M out of the box.
How hard was the upgrade for the 4?
--
Rick
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Things that annoy me in Mandrake Linux
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:34:08 +0200
Its about time some real Linux issues are debated here. I'll start with a
few lousy things my favorite Linux distro does wrong.
1) If you change the security settings to "high security" only root can
play sound.
Fix: chmod a+w /dev/dsp
Now thats a stupid thing (or is it really??). Why is one not warned and has
to waste long time on resolving this?
We need a (G)UI to configure all kinds of small things like this!
2) If you add "Cooker" packages in the rather excellent Software Manager,
you will on some occasions risk upgrading some packages to "cooker version"
even though the stable packages are located at the CD's. This off course
even if the package you want to install is on the CD.
Fix: Remove the cooker from the list
Now thats silly. Thats sad for an excelent program that does a very fine
job. They should improve on Sofware Manager as soon as possible and finish
the week spots. Im sure there are many move
Cheers
Ohhh... another thing that annoys me. Why do not all Unix editors have RE
support built-in. I would feel that that is a natural feature.
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Security in Open Source Software
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:42:07 +0200
Les Mikesell wrote:
> That's not the only vital point here. First, IIS holds the record this
> year for the most security patches needed according to some of the
> tracking sites, so the premise that open source is worse is wrong
> to begin with. Second. many open source projects are very stable
> with the same program available and evolving over many years.
> In these cases the bugs are found and fixed early and you are done
> with them. Commercial vendors like to force upgrades by writing
Youre assuming. The requiremnet is that there is a systematic audit with
the primary intention of fixing security related bugs. This does not happen
on Linux - as far as i know - and only happens on a major scale on OpenBSD.
I do agree that Free Software is more secure than proprietary software but
thats not the same as saying it is secure.
Cheers
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roberto Alsina)
Subject: Re: Things that annoy me in Mandrake Linux
Date: 20 May 2001 20:47:52 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 20 May 2001 22:34:08 +0200, Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Its about time some real Linux issues are debated here. I'll start with a
>few lousy things my favorite Linux distro does wrong.
>
>1) If you change the security settings to "high security" only root can
>play sound.
>Fix: chmod a+w /dev/dsp
>
>Now thats a stupid thing (or is it really??). Why is one not warned and has
>to waste long time on resolving this?
>We need a (G)UI to configure all kinds of small things like this!
Ok, I am not using Mandrake, but when I saw similar problems,
the error message was something like "can not open /dev/dsp, check
permissions", and the GUI to fix it is the file manager ;-)
>Ohhh... another thing that annoys me. Why do not all Unix editors have RE
>support built-in. I would feel that that is a natural feature.
What is RE support? Just curious, since I maintain an editor.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Things that annoy me in Mandrake Linux
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 23:03:42 +0200
Roberto Alsina wrote:
> On Sun, 20 May 2001 22:34:08 +0200, Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Its about time some real Linux issues are debated here. I'll start with a
>>few lousy things my favorite Linux distro does wrong.
>>
>>1) If you change the security settings to "high security" only root can
>>play sound.
>>Fix: chmod a+w /dev/dsp
>>
>>Now thats a stupid thing (or is it really??). Why is one not warned and
>>has to waste long time on resolving this?
>>We need a (G)UI to configure all kinds of small things like this!
>
> Ok, I am not using Mandrake, but when I saw similar problems,
> the error message was something like "can not open /dev/dsp, check
> permissions", and the GUI to fix it is the file manager ;-)
Well mine was "Cannot open audio device. Another application may be using
it" with RealPlayer. Noatun and XMMS just sat there and didnt say anything.
It ment i had to start a browser and find the answer. No big deal but
annoying nevertheless. I use KDE 2.1.1 and dont know if artsd has anything
to do with the lack of messages.
>>Ohhh... another thing that annoys me. Why do not all Unix editors have RE
>>support built-in. I would feel that that is a natural feature.
>
> What is RE support? Just curious, since I maintain an editor.
Regular Expressions - though it was a known term. I would love to have that
in quanta, Kedit, kwrite. Or maybe just a way to use ex commands with one
of the above.
Isnt there a RE lib?
Cheers
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 Service Pack 2 review
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:19:44 +1200
"> >I have been using Windows 2000 over the last couple of days, with the
latest
> >service pack, SP2, installed. I installed Windows 2000 on a clean hard
> >disk, that is, a hard disk that has been low level formatted.
Installation
> >when very quickly, rebooted, the proceeded to download the latest service
> >pack update, which was approx. 15400Kilobytes, (aka, 15 megs or so).
> >Several times it failed, due to high demand on their, Microsofts
server's,
> >so I waited until around 2am, then started the download. It took around
49
> >minutes, and the installation and configuration went very quickly. One
thing
> >to point out, the latest patch includes all the patches, that is security
> >patches up to the point SP2 was released.
> >
> >After installing I rebooted, as it requested. Once Windows 2000 was
loaded
> >to the desktop I then downloaded the latest compatibility updates, Media
> >Player, and DirectX (8.0a). I then rebooted again, and I reached the
> >desktop. I then proceeded to install Lotus Smart Suite ME, whilst at the
> >same time I also copied a collection of mp3's (using the second CD drive)
to
> >my hard disk. The stability has drastically improved over SP1. Disk
> >defragmenter no longer crashes at the end of defrag'in my drive, which is
a
> >good sign :) Internet stability (which is important to us analogue modem
> >users) has also increased to something close to what Linux offers. Lotus
> >slides in perfectly without any compatibility issues. I do however have
a
> >bone of contention, I have found IE 5.5 a wowser of a browser. It is
> >considerably slower than version 5. Anyone looking at install IE over
5.0,
> >DON'T, you will regret it. Media Player 7 is a be-arge of an player. So
I
> >have stuck with good old Winamp. Very soon I will be obtaining a copy of
> >Office 2002 to review, so, as they say, "watch this space".
> >
> >oh, only funny thing I saw on the winamp page was, "Get Winamp for Mac!"
> >
> >Matthew Gardiner
> >
> >--
> >I am the blue screen of death,
> >no body can hear your screams
> >
> >
>
> Well, glad to hear you like Windows 2000 Matthew Gardiner.
>
> Also glad to see your such a loyal Linux supporter also.
>
> Were you and Erik Fuckenbush seperated at birth by a knife?
>
>
Geepers mate. I was comparing Windows 2000 SP1 to Windows 2000 SP2. If it
was, say, Windows 2000 SP2 vs. SuSE Linux 7.1, I would have gone with SuSE
Linux 7.1. Erik proclaims Windows for EVERYTHING, I on the other hand do
not. Servers have, should and always will be running some varient of UNIX,
incl.*BSD or Linux. Yes, Windows is good on the end luser, AOL addicted,
half witt who considers themselves talented because they can animate the
clippy. It is also good that these lusers don't infect Linux with their
"lost common demonator" mantra that has infected Windows to such an extent
that it is impossible to actually get something done with out a bloody
wizard poping up. I would like see Linux continue on the path that on now.
KDE 2.1.1 is almost there, and I have a good felling that 2.2 will be a
substantial improvement over 2.1.1. Gnome 1.4 will be released towards the
end of this year, which will be adopted by IBM, SUN, Redhat, and HP. Whilst
Windows becomes more bloated, inefficient and lacking any sort of vision.
By this time, on the Windows front there should already be selfhealing OS's
that repair the code after a crash to ensure it doesn't happen again.
Another yet to be seen innovation would be drivers written on the fly, that
is, there is a program that detects the device, rip's all the information
from the device required and writes a driver for it.
Matthew Gardiner
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob S. Wolfram)
Subject: Fingerprints (WAY Offtopic) (was: Linux Mandrake Sucks!!!!)
Date: 20 May 2001 21:01:55 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Paolo Ciambotti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>A person's writing style is as unique as their fingerprint. In the
>states, its commonly accepted in the courts that ten similarities between
>two fingerprints constitutes a match. Ten points of identification, it's
>called. Those points can be arches, loops, whorls, breaks, etc.
Nearly correct. Only, the points of identification are not arches, loops
and whorls, but line endings end line forks. Also of main importance is
the interrelations between the point (like, how many lines are crossed
between point 4 and 5, or, what angle is (approx.) made when going from
point 6 to point 2 and then to point 3).
The loops, arches and whorls are used to create a classification system
to easily retrieve the set of prints belonging to someone. The English
(and American) system (a.k.a. the Galton-Henry system) depends on a
complete set of (10) prints to create a classification, and this system
only knows two types of prints, namely loops and whorls (an arch is
considered a "loop" type). Other systems exist with more
differentiation, like e.g. the Dutch "Pateer" system which regognizes 9
different types. This system enables a "per finger" classification which
eases the identification if you have an incomplete set retrieved from
the crime scene (which is mostly the case), but the "per finger" set
grows out of control pretty fast, mainly because arches have no way of
sub-classifying them, while they still make up nearly 10 percent of all
prints. In a 10-finger system there are not that many sets with all
arches. Most of the time there are a few loops in the set as well.
All this is about manual classification systems. I have no idea how the
automated systems work.
Cheers,
Rob (yes, fingerprint identification was part of a previous job...)
--
Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OpenPGP key 0xD61A655D
The difference between Microsoft and 'Jurassic Park':
In one, a mad businessman makes a lot of money with beasts that
should be extinct. The other is a film.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 23:22:32 +0100
>> Loosely coupling many PCs together across the phone lines is not the
>> same as a a closely coupled cluster. The communications overhead is
>> much too great to do many useful things. Where are the Windows
>> machines that can do weather prediction or simulate nuclear weapons?
>
> Yet the SETI and Intel websites claim this is the biggest supercomputer
> and quote figures of 10 TeraFlops.
They're wrong. The quoted figure for ASIC White is a bit faster.
> As for where are the machines, why, nobody has written a distributed
> prediction package and aren't likely to write one for simulating nuclear
> weapons!
Most applications can not be as efficiently split apart, and therefore
need much tighter copuling.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 23:24:13 +0100
> No one has
> ever tested the speed of light in a vacuum! I can find no reference of
> any tests in a lack of medium.
Free space isn't a lack of a medium.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:24:45 +1200
> >
> >I wonder how many newbie Windows users can upgrade their OS without any
> >help?
> >
> >Matthew Gardiner
> >
> >
>
> Well, obviously you think you can from that W2k service pack bulletin
> here on COLA...
>
Read the bloody reply! god! I can't believe you come out with such rubbish.
Read the post, I was comparing SP1 to SP2, not SP2 to Linux. Also note the
disappointing things that STILL have not been fixed, that work perfectly on
Linux.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux beats Win2K (again)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:25:32 +1200
--
I am the blue screen of death,
no body can hear your screams
"Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <9e83q2$7im$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>
> > Yet you claimed it was Linux's fault, not GIMP's fault simply on the
> > grounds that it has never happened to you under Windows, so it must be
> > the OS's fault (despite many people claiming it did happen under
> > windows).
>
> And it wasn't even GIMP's fault. It was a bad default that slipped
> through the cracks in one specific distribution - Mandrake 7.2.
>
Also:
Linux != Mandrake
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:27:47 +1200
> > > Not on W2K - what OS do you use that has that fear?
> >
> > Win2k, running Netscape 6. Then second time, Win2k running Windows
> > Mediaplayer, copying some stuff from my USB Zip 100 Drive to my hard
disk,
> > and surfing the net.
> >
>
> There is your problem - crappy netscape
A real OS would have killed the process before it locked up the OS. Linux
stops bad programs, why doesn't the $NZ800 Windows 2000 Pro do that?
Matthew Gardiner
--
I am the blue screen of death,
no body can hear your screams
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: EXTRA EXTRA MS ADMITS!!!!
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:31:44 +1200
> It is the same chip. HP is involved in this chip seriously.
> It will be Intel's next generation chip.
>
>
> But I found it particularly funny when you highlighted that it
> was a risc chip. EF says it was made by HP. HP doesn't make
> chips EF. They never have.
>
> Now if it IS a RISC chip which is going to be Intel's new
> premier top of the line bread and butter chip, I'm going
> laugh out loud.
>
>
> What I was told was current HP-9000's have had the IA-64 in them
> and they are slow IA-64's which run under 500 mhz.
>
> But they are the first in use.
>
> The ones which are to hit the PC market will be B series
> and will be made to run faster clock cycles.
>
> We run the A series.
>
> Let's see. They have them running at 850 mhz now?
> Is that right...
>
>From what I have read, the first, low end Itanium will run at 750Mhz and
priced at around the same as the Xeon is now. However, I am not to sure the
specs of the motherboard, and whether they (Intel) are still insisting on
using RDRAM.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 23:32:46 +0100
>> > why - just read the organization line... yawn...
>>
>> Hmm. The news server must be putting that in.
>
> You didn't know this? Scarey...
I have better things to do than read the headers of my own posts.
>> >> Well, I've got news for you buddy, my parents didn't pay off
>> >> admissions
>> >> (that kind of stuff doesn't happen any more) and besides if they
>> >> did, I would have failed my first exams with flying colours and have
>> >> been kicked out. Oh, BTW I passed, so I'm good enough to stay here.
>> >
>> > oh boy - you're a paper computer "expert" - yhipee
>>
>> And you're not *even* a paper expert.
>
> Actually - I am but I recognize that degrees from university and
> certifications mean very little compared to exerience which is why I
> don't list mine -- I just speak from first hand experience in the
I don't list mine either. You had to go and look for it.
> trenches. Nothing means more than experience.
Ever heard of the old saying: the best engineers are the ones without
experience because they don't know what can't be done?
But besides, I'be been working with computers for the last 10 years, so I
have gained a little experience along the way.
>> Besides, who said anything about doing a computer degree? I'm an
>> engineer, actually and the degree coruse does not involve much
>> computing.
>
> So you know even less about computing than even a paper expert on
> computing...
No: I simply said my degree course has little computing in it.
>> >> http://users.ox.ac.uk/~scat1148/
>> >>
>> >
>> > wow - impressive - NOT
>>
>> You asked for some kind of proof. Other than that, I've not got enough
>> time to piss about with HTML.
>
> Sure... what's this HTML thing anyway, not like it's important or
> anything... never mind...
Not for what I do, since I have no plans to become a web designer.
Besides, if you claim to put no weight on degrees, then why the hell do
you care where I go to university? It's not like I've been shouting it out
at every oppertunity.
Seems to me like you have an ulterior motive, ie you lost the argument,
so you're going for personal attacks.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Steinberg)
Subject: Re: Things that annoy me in Mandrake Linux
Date: 20 May 2001 21:38:25 GMT
Mig ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: 1) If you change the security settings to "high security" only root can
: play sound.
: Fix: chmod a+w /dev/dsp
: Now thats a stupid thing (or is it really??).
It seems like high security to me. A good way would be to give it 0664
permissions, make it owned by a group called something like "audio", and
then just add the users whom you want to be able to play audio to that
group.
That's the way Debian does it.
: Why is one not warned and has to waste long time on resolving this?
If you ask me, it should tell you exactly what constitutes the various
security levels. I hate it when vague terms like "high," "medium," and
"low" are used without explanation.
--
David Steinberg -o)
Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K/IIS proves itself over Linux/Tux
Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 09:42:13 +1200
> HOWEVER, CA has refused to build new power plants. It takes 10 times the
> paperwork and approvals to get a power plant built in CA than ANYWHERE
else
> in the USA. AND anti-nuke hippies simply refuse to let them be built. When
> they aren't spending their time keeping guns out of the hands of
law-abiding
> citizens, and ensuring that only criminals will be fully armed and
> unconcerned with being shot back, they are fighting anything remotely
> productive or supportive of their own states infrastructure. No more
roads,
> closing down more and more acres from controlled fires to prevent
> destructive uncontrolled fires and stopping the contruction of any energy
> producing structures except for the massively inefficient wind and solar
> power sites which look great for movie backdrops but are useless in
feeding
> the powerhungry needs of the hippies...
>
> bah! I really REALLY hate those types of liberals - make me puke blood -
but
> I can smile knowing that they are now reaping what they've sown.
I would actually like one of these hippies to come up with a solution to the
problem. Those types (as you have described), always object to everything,
have all the answers, but when the crunch time, they don't know what to do.
Maybe these anit-nuclear, nay-says should come up with a viable solution,
since they have all the answers.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Microsoft - WE DELETE YOU!
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:42:11 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 19 May 2001 19:17:38 GMT, Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > Yes; it's just not the habit.
> > >
> > > Although I had an teacher in grade school who INSISTED that we say
> > > "lavatory" instead of bathroom (because there are no baths in the
> > > school bathrooms).
> > >
> > > Of course, the typical 3rd graders whom he was subjecting to his
> > > inanity couldn't figure out why someone would want to ask to go
> > > to the laboratory when all they want to do is take a piss.
> > At College, Seventh Form (last year, age 18), we could swear in class as
> > much as we wanted, shit, even the fucking teacher swore too. As for the
> > link with the post, at high school it (toilet) was either:
> >
> > 1. Toilet
> > 2. Thunder box
> > 3. The throne
> > 4. Shit house
> > 5. The crapper
> > 6. The can
>
> whatever happened to
>
> 7. the loo
> 8. the bog
9) the kludge
Peter
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why did Eazel shutdown?
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 22:42:32 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 17 May 2001 15:50:34 -0500, "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > > "somebody" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Anonymous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> stands accused of saying:
> > > > >And you only have to pay the star
> > > > >programmer an amount of $100,000 per
> > > > >year,
> > > >
> > > > lol, on what planet?
> > >
> > > $100k is not an outrageous salary for a programmer, especially when you
> > > factor in benefits, taxes, social security, etc.. (the company is
> required
> > > by law to pay a portion of that).
> >
> > Personally, I have only ever seen programming jobs at 65K to 85K in New
> > Zealand dollars. 100k US$ is way, way over the top.
>
> Like I said, if you factor in benefits, taxes, social security, cube space
> (it costs money to house the programmer as well), etc... For a $70k
> programmer, you could easily be over 100k with everything else factored in.
Yeah, usually double the guy's salary, by the time you've paid for the
canteen, personnel, heating/cooling, electricity, non profit making
management overheads, local taxes on the workplace, etc, etc.
> But, having said that, it's not uncommon to find actual programmer salaries
> over 100k, especially on the coasts where cost of living is quite high.
Along with the rolling power cuts...
Peter
------------------------------
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