Linux-Advocacy Digest #322, Volume #35 Sun, 17 Jun 01 02:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" ("Glitch")
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" (Terry Porter)
Re: Is Linux for me? (Jack Tripper)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (Rotten168)
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance (Rotten168)
Re: PC power switch wont shut down Windows (LShaping)
Re: PC power switch wont shut down Windows (LShaping)
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags ("green")
Re: PC power switch wont shut down Windows ("green")
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) ("Anthony Neville")
Re: PC power switch wont shut down Windows ("green")
Re: Is Linux for me? (Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Glitch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 01:14:50 -0400
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
In article <3b2a1c7a$0$789$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Jon Johansan"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, "DLL Hell" is no longer a valid concept or issue in Windows 2000
> or XP. Looks like that legacy has been taken up by linux - taken from
> the front page of Linux Weekly News (http://www.lwn.net/):
>
> "gnucash 1.6 and the dependency nightmare
>
> gnucash is perhaps the prime example of shared library dependency hell.
> The executable requires no less than 60 different shared libraries, all,
> of course, with the right version."
>
This is what I ran into. I was forced to upgrade my version of guile,
g-wrap, and something else. Well, guile I beleive compiled and installed
okay and I think g-wrap even installed okay but gnucash could never FIND
g-wrap, even when i specified the location of g-wrap when i ran
./configure. So i gave up the on the damn thing. I'm not wasting my time
on a program that 'works' like that. In Windows, I would have had the
thing installed and would have been using it within 5 min. using the
InstallShield. Why the fuck doesn't Linux have an Installshield type
program????????????
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 17 Jun 2001 05:11:54 GMT
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:53:07 -0700, GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob Hauck wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:09:56 -0700, GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Caldera OpenLinux 2.4 does... it came with GnuCash and it worked.
>>
>> It does? Where? COL doesn't even have a Gnome desktop, just the
>> libraries.
>>
>> --
>> -| Bob Hauck
>> -| To Whom You Are Speaking
>> -| http://www.haucks.org/
>
>
> OOPPS!!! My apologies!! It was MoneyDance that came with it.
> When you mention cash or money my eyes glaze over. :-)
>
> --
> V
Mandrake comes with Gnucash, and it works, but Gnucash
uses a binary database, so call me the nervous type,
cause I use CBB due to its ascii database.
Gnucash is *nice* tho.
--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: Jack Tripper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Is Linux for me?
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:23:59 -0500
On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 12:37:12 +0900, "Osugi Sakae"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Jack Tripper"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I'm seriously considering moving my computer over to linux. I thought
>> maybe redhat, since a fair number of people seem to use that and there
>> would be plenty of support. I see good reasons why I should and
>> shouldn't go to linux.
>> I should because:
>> I really don't like Windows. I'm tired of upgrading and upgrading and
>> watching my computers get less and less stable. Maybe I shouldn't.
>> though?
>> I'm quite willing (and able, I think) to learn how to use Linux. I've
>> used Unix OS before but just as a university student where the hardest
>> thing I had to do was use PINE, or mv blim.wav sounds/stupid and stuff
>> like that.
>>
>> I've read quite a bit about Linux, it seems to be quite a bit more
>> stable, and the applications look configurable (to me). I mostly like to
>> use my computer for internet stuff - writing web pages, random surfing,
>> email, stuff like that. I also use it for mp3s.
>>
>> A few quick questions if anyone wishes to answer: How big are the
>> varieties of Linux? (again, I'm thinking maybe redhat) Is there a nice
>> GUI HTML interface program available for Linux? I know some people have
>> both Windows AND Linux on their hard drives, using a partition. My hard
>> drive is all but 8.4 megs. Should I even bother trying to keep Windows?
>> I don't mind reformatting the whole hard drive, I have everything
>> important backed up. Oh! And what are the word processing formats for
>> Linux> .txt and .doc, for instance?
>>
>> Thanks a lot!
>>
>> jason
>
>Consider dual-booting at first, just for those times when you are either
>really frustrated or really have to get something done now (and you
>aren't sure how to do it in linux yet). Also, if/when you do go
>completely linux, having a small windows partition can be good if you
>want to use wine to run an old windows game or other must-have windows
>program (like starcraft or MOO II). At that point there is no need to
>dual boot, wine can handle it - but it works better with the real MS
>stuff (dlls i guess).
My wife and I just had a discussion about Linux, she's quite wary of
dedicating the whole system to it, so I think we're just going to buy
another hard drive. That way, if for some reason we're too stupid to
work it, hey, we still got a hard drive for our trouble!
>As for which distro to try, check out Mandrake 8.0. It has a few quirks,
>but is prolly the most "user-friendly" distro around (if
>userfriendly=mostly gui control panel type stuff). It is aimed squarely
>at the desktop (although it can of course do the server stuff as well).
>Since Mandrake is 99% (whatever that means) compatible with RedHat, you
>can benefit from red hat packages and help just as much as from Mandrake
>packages and help.
Oh, that does sound really interesting. I just found the site now, am
browsing. At the very least, the screenshots are REALLY COOL!
>Or you might give Progeny a try. They are debian with an installer for
>the rest of us (ie easy and pretty). Debain has a reputation for being
>the most complete and most stable distro around. And since they aren't a
>company, they cannot go out of business (Progeny is a company and
>hopefully the won't go out of business).
>No matter what distro you go with, be sure to check the hardware
>compatibility lists. If something you have isn't listed, it might or
>might not work. Even if it is listed, you might not get all of the same
>functionality under linux that you do under windows - most companies are
>not putting as much effort into linux drivers but won't release enough
>info for the free software developers to write drivers that can take
>advantage of all that the hardware can do.
I have been really looking into this. My biggest concern is my modem -
it's a Soft 56K - described somewhere as a winmodem, but also as a
linmodem, compatible for Linux. I went to a big page of patches for I
think Redhat 6, drivers and such, so I think I can assume it would
work with Redhat 7.1/Mandrake 8. I'm going to check out my sound and
video cards tomorrow.
I must admit a secret shame here: My computer is an Etower. Wait!
Don't killfile me.I went to their website which offered the following:
The system board and BIOS are compatible with Linux. However, Linux is
an open shareware operating system.There are no standard drivers
provided by each component manufacturer (video, audio and modem), yet.
Please check our web site later for further updates. These Linux
drivers will be provided as "use at your own risk" Tools. There will
be no "free tech support" available for Linux related issues.
Does this bode ill? Or well?
>
>Fonts might be an issue when you start - don't let that bother you. You
>can get most programs looking quite good, but it is not as easy or as
>automagic as under windows. Would you prefer a stable, free, high quality
>system with lots of power and choice, or one that looks as good as
>possible? (if the latter, you might look into apple instead of windows or
>linux).
Linux looks pretty damn good to me. One of my big motivations is I
really want to learn about operating systems, and Linux will somewhat
force me to do that (in addition to the other benefits many of you
have mentioned). I feel a bit spooky with Windows in the background,
always doing things I don't know about, and then when there's a real
problem I'm somewhat helpless. Another reason which some may think is
silly is I really like using text only clients for things like IRC or
email.
>anyhow, good luck and have fun.
I will! Thank you for all your advice. I really appreciate it.
-jason
=====================================================
www.benalto.com
www.mp3.com/benalto
"Kids start smoking!"
-Paul Westerberg
"Alcohol Rules!"
-graffiti in downtown, Des Moines, Iowa
"Dont tell me how to waste my time"
-The Fuses
www.geocities.com/the_zep_files
www.granthart.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
As always, CDR trading is cool shit -
http://cdrtrades.benalto.com/
Vive le Gortician!
www.mp3.com/gortician
www.benalto.com/songoftheday.html
This sig file brought to you by the letter 'R'
"Oh yeah grandma, I'll come and visit
But I won't be coming alone
I'll bring a whore
And you can watch me fuck her"
-Dirty Pete
ROCK!
=====================================================
------------------------------
From: Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 05:19:45 GMT
"Dr S.J. Cornell" wrote:
>
> Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > The US GDP is so ungodly huge that it really works against us in these
> > debates. Whatever the figure is per GDP or capita it's still pretty big.
>
> Think again. The US foreign aid _per capita_ is much smaller than
> that of Britain, which is already small by comparison with the rest of
> europe. This means that you (individually) are contributing fewer
> dollars to saving the starving millions that I am, even though you
> have more dollars to spend. Are you proud of that fact?
No, it's just that the US GDP is so unimaginably big that we could never
afford to send that kind of money. I'm sure other countries that have
lower average per capita amounts send far more money than Englands.
Either way, the US also sends troops to foreign countries which doesn't
get counted... as well as taking the initiative to in the first place.
If you counted the amount of military aid that we have invested abroad
to stop genocide/chaos/anarchy I'm sure the US figure would be
comparable to yours.
--
- Brent
"General Veer, prepare your underpants for ground assault."
- Darth Vader
http://rotten168.home.att.net
------------------------------
From: Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 05:22:28 GMT
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Anthony Neville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9geli8$2621$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Chad Myers wrote:
> > > > How so, or how not so?
> > > >
> > > > -c
> > >
> > > I've got a good example for "how not so"... in the State of Wash. we
> > > have the initiative right to put an issue up for vote ... if we get
> > > enough signatures on an initiative it goes on the next ballot. We voted
> > > to rescind a lot of local taxes here and it passed. However, the
> > > opposition forces, mainly composed of liberals and
>
> > > tax happy conservatives
>
> That's an oxymoron. I don't think I've ever seen a "tax happy conservative".
Besides George Bush Sr.
--
- Brent
"General Veer, prepare your underpants for ground assault."
- Darth Vader
http://rotten168.home.att.net
------------------------------
From: LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: PC power switch wont shut down Windows
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 05:06:19 GMT
"green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Chris Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 01:28:22 GMT, LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>"Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>>"LShaping" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >
>> >>>> My computer's Basic Input/Output Service settings and Windows
>settings
>> >>>> are correct, as always. Microsoft has disabled the power switch in
>> >>>> certain circumstances in an effort to cope with Windows technical
>> >>>> problems. When I want to turn off my computer, I would like to use
>my
>> >>>> computer's power switch to do so.
>> >
>> >>>That's not Windows fault, it's to do with the ACPI BIOS I believe.
>> >
>> >>And what entity dictated that standard?
>> >
>> >Nevermind. Highly likely that was Microsoft's doing, but it does not
>> >matter. Windows could unconditionally send a shut down signal to the
>> >mainboard. Instead, Windows polls itself to see if shutting down is
>> >OK. I have a macroer running which has something to do with it. The
>> >same thing happens when I do Start - Shut Down. Probably has
>> >something to do with the macroer's hooks. But the system is
>> >controlled by the operating system. Therefore, it is Microsoft's
>> >fault. My computer is supposed to shut down when I tell it to. What
>> >would you think if you hit the power switch on your TV and for some
>> >internal reason, it failed to turn itself off? This is another fine
>> >example of blunderware from a monopoly OS maker whose only concern is
>> >increasing profits and keeping appearances.
>> >LShaping
>>
>> So employ the power switch. It's the rocker on the back next to the
>> power inlet. With an ATX board and a "power" switch that goes to the
>> motherboard, you are at the mercy of the BIOS, and the OS.
Must have an IBM PC-XT, from over ten years ago. Modern personal
computers have only one power switch and typically do not have a
rocker switch on the back next to the power inlet. Not in the United
States.
>
>so disable windows drivers for ACPI.
>if it can't use them it can't control them.
Which drivers would they be? Could you please point me to a web site
or something.
------------------------------
From: LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: PC power switch wont shut down Windows
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 05:10:02 GMT
"green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"LShaping" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >>I knew this was going to happen. When I saw the "When I press the
>> >>power button on my computer" option in Windows Millennium "Power
>> >>Options" I knew that it was going to malfunction. Hello Microsoft. I
>>
>> >Enable APM legacy support is your friend at least in Windows 2k and
>> >Win98SE I believe.
>>
>> Obviously not in the Basic Input/Output Service since your refer to it
>> as a Windows function. I see no such thing in Windows Millennium.
>> There is a "Power buttons" box in "Power Options". Hopefully the
>> plural of "button" is not an omen. But I wont be surprised to see the
>> reset "button" added to the power "button" in the next Windows
>> "upgrade". I could hard wire the power switch to the power supply.
>> Between now and then, I can use either my battery backup or surge
>> supressor switch whenever I feel like ordering my computer to shut
>> down.
>> LShaping
>
>Make sure you save documents and the cache is committed first :)
You teach preschoolers? If I wanted to shut down Microsoft's Way,
which sometimes means not shutting down at all, I would use Start -
Shut Down.
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 15:50:08 +1000
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9ghddo$5o2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9ghc75$36n$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> > I remember a friend moved another friends c:\windows to recycle bin and
> > powered down in 95a.
> > it didn't power up (surprise surprise)
> > but you can't just copy them out of recycle bin either.
> > a user should not be able to do this!!!
>
> You can't do that, sorry. If you would try to do that, it would fail and
> complain on being unable to do this due to locked files.
>
correct but you can move enough to cause a failure to load even safe mode.
and the option is a reinstall. and with persistence you can move all but a
select few.
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: PC power switch wont shut down Windows
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 16:02:05 +1000
"LShaping" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Chris Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 01:28:22 GMT, LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >>"Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >>>"LShaping" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >
> >> >>>> My computer's Basic Input/Output Service settings and Windows
> >settings
> >> >>>> are correct, as always. Microsoft has disabled the power switch
in
> >> >>>> certain circumstances in an effort to cope with Windows technical
> >> >>>> problems. When I want to turn off my computer, I would like to
use
> >my
> >> >>>> computer's power switch to do so.
> >> >
> >> >>>That's not Windows fault, it's to do with the ACPI BIOS I believe.
> >> >
> >> >>And what entity dictated that standard?
> >> >
> >> >Nevermind. Highly likely that was Microsoft's doing, but it does not
> >> >matter. Windows could unconditionally send a shut down signal to the
> >> >mainboard. Instead, Windows polls itself to see if shutting down is
> >> >OK. I have a macroer running which has something to do with it. The
> >> >same thing happens when I do Start - Shut Down. Probably has
> >> >something to do with the macroer's hooks. But the system is
> >> >controlled by the operating system. Therefore, it is Microsoft's
> >> >fault. My computer is supposed to shut down when I tell it to. What
> >> >would you think if you hit the power switch on your TV and for some
> >> >internal reason, it failed to turn itself off? This is another fine
> >> >example of blunderware from a monopoly OS maker whose only concern is
> >> >increasing profits and keeping appearances.
> >> >LShaping
> >>
> >> So employ the power switch. It's the rocker on the back next to the
> >> power inlet. With an ATX board and a "power" switch that goes to the
> >> motherboard, you are at the mercy of the BIOS, and the OS.
>
> Must have an IBM PC-XT, from over ten years ago. Modern personal
> computers have only one power switch and typically do not have a
> rocker switch on the back next to the power inlet. Not in the United
> States.
> >
> >so disable windows drivers for ACPI.
> >if it can't use them it can't control them.
>
> Which drivers would they be? Could you please point me to a web site
> or something.
no web site :)
(looked at from w2k but they will be in win 98 etc.)
in device manager (right click my computer, Properties, select hardware tab,
Device Manager)
look down the tree for a computer icon with a name System Devices.
look for ACPI Fixed Feature Button, right click select uninstall.
also apci fan and Microsoft ACPI-Complient System.
driver file in c:\WINNT\System32\DRIVERS\acpi.sys :)
also Computer at top of tree Advanced Configuration and Power Interface
(APCI) PC
but you can't uninstall that one.
one problem could be if it tries to redetect it next time :( and reinstalls
it.
------------------------------
From: "Anthony Neville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 18:01:24 +1200
"Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> > But Liberals don't talk about personal responsibility, they talk about
> > how government should do more to force parents to take action. They also
> > attempt to defend single parent homes. The fact is, parents need to take
> > more action with their children. Father's shouldn't be leaving their families
> > and women shouldn't be purposely having children on their own. I know
> > that probably offends your liberal core, but it's the truth. A family is a
> > family and many adults seem to have children out of their own personal
> > greed rather than for what's best for their children (*cough*roseyo'donnel
> > ormadonna*cough*).
>
> I'm not a liberal and I agree with you. But I see conservative-types
> doing some of the same things.
>
> I don't think it's liberals you're talking about (the liberals and
> conservatives I know are all pretty good parents), I think it's these
> apathetic people who don't have political opinions and who only care
> about whether or not they'll be able to buy that new Ford Explorer or
> new 15" TV who make bad parents.
>
> Liberals do support single parent families, basically because they're
> there and what else really can you do for them. If there are liberals
> who think that single-parent families are equal/better than full-familes
> then those people are just plain old deluded.
I have few qualms about "liberals" wanting to support single parent families
"because they're there." I think they're suckers, but it is their prerogative.
It's when they demand the removal of people's prerogative to *not* support
those families when they screw up, financially or otherwise, that people
justifiably find liberals morally bankrupt. Some dopes down the road chose
to make a baby that they're unable to support. It matters not that "they're
there". They made a choice. They're ethically responsible for the
consequences of acting on it. It defies any sense of natural justice to make
someone else responsible for somthing they never did.
Tony.
=======
www.freeradical.co.nz
www.libertarianz.org.nz
------------------------------
From: "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: PC power switch wont shut down Windows
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 16:04:56 +1000
"LShaping" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"LShaping" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >LShaping <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>I knew this was going to happen. When I saw the "When I press the
> >> >>power button on my computer" option in Windows Millennium "Power
> >> >>Options" I knew that it was going to malfunction. Hello Microsoft.
I
> >>
> >> >Enable APM legacy support is your friend at least in Windows 2k and
> >> >Win98SE I believe.
> >>
> >> Obviously not in the Basic Input/Output Service since your refer to it
> >> as a Windows function. I see no such thing in Windows Millennium.
> >> There is a "Power buttons" box in "Power Options". Hopefully the
> >> plural of "button" is not an omen. But I wont be surprised to see the
> >> reset "button" added to the power "button" in the next Windows
> >> "upgrade". I could hard wire the power switch to the power supply.
> >> Between now and then, I can use either my battery backup or surge
> >> supressor switch whenever I feel like ordering my computer to shut
> >> down.
> >> LShaping
> >
> >Make sure you save documents and the cache is committed first :)
>
> You teach preschoolers? If I wanted to shut down Microsoft's Way,
> which sometimes means not shutting down at all, I would use Start -
> Shut Down.
like
if I wanted to shut down linux's way I would use halt or shutdown -r now ?
My point was make sure your work is saved and committed to disk first unless
you don't want it
any way.
Ok yes I know win doesn't always shut down or start up for that matter;)
bye.
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Is Linux for me?
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 23:49:54 +0200
Jack Tripper wrote:
>
> Everytime someone complains about my sig, I add a line.
>
*Plonk*
Peter
--
If Windows is the answer then it probably has been a stupid question
------------------------------
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