Hey, On Saturday 29 December 2001 01:27, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> Nimrod, most of these messages (especially the ones that appeared on the > list) weren't flames, but rather people letting you know that your offer is > *way* below what people would expect, and that you'll never get anybody > from the list to work for you at these prices. But you didn't listen. No. No one have told me anything like that, there was not even one single letter I got back about it that didnt have an impatient "we're better then you" kinda feeling to it. you know what im talking about exactly. > And all these "mal'izim" were right, weren't they? You didn't get anyone > from the list (or from Israel for that matter) to work for you. I had many Israeli programmers working with me in the past, this time I was recommanded about the guys from Lithuania first. > And the worst thing you can do is to dance on the blood of the other people > on this list who were unfortunate enough to lose their jobs in the current > economic downturn. Asking them to drop from a $30/hour secure job to a > $14/hour freelancing job isn't easy. Thats life ! When I stopped getting as many job offers for site building back when I was doing that -- I started taking smaller, less paying jobs because there was no choice. I definately didnt say "I dont work for less then 50$/hour" to any of them, better something then nothing. > Some of them might do it eventually, > but others might prefer to get other jobs where they'll at least do > something useful - e.g., instead of writing code for a site that aims to > cheat in schools, they might go and become teachers! Oh comeon, we're an information source as much as a school library is, whoever copies a paper from us and sends it as is - is stupid. Teachers dont have any ambitions towards trying to change ANYTHING in the messed up education system -- We do ! > You keep talking about "bubble prices". Say, do you have experience in > hiring people by hour in other higly-educated and highly-trained people > outside the "bubble" arena? How much does your lawyer take per hour? > Your therapist? Your CPA (ro'e cheshbon)? A private doctor? > Don't tell me they take $14 an hour.... These people always charged shitloads of money, but you have no choice there arent any cheap ones in that area. But programmers didnt get THAT high payments ever before the high tech bubble started. I know because I was working in that area back then. > A few years back, when I wasn't working in the computer area at all (so > don't pin it on the "bubble" again), my employer charged clients for my > time at around $70 an hour (of course, this included overhead, I got only a > small fraction of this money). So while this is a really inflated rate, > people do pay such a rate for highly trained workers doing very specialized > work for them. I didnt ask for much more then simple script programming, nobody's worth 70 bucks an hour for me in order to develop some scripts. People maybe paid 70 dollars an hour for your time but as you said yourself you just saw small fractions of it, might aswell take the money directly as it is for as much as it is because its better then nothing. I dont have any investor to pay for my company -- i'm paying all costs from my profits, unlike all those crashing high tech companies who made 1/4 what they spent! > Note that overhead is high. This $70 includes money to pay for the > computers (that the freelancer has to buy out of his own money, and also > books, software, fax machine, copier, etc.), office space (or cave, or > whatever) to work in, electricity, internet and phone connection costs, > managers and secretaries (or equivalently, if you work alone, "managerial > and secreterial time" in which you act as your own manager and secretary, > and (for example) go get new contracts, and you don't get paid for that > time), and so on. Well if that freelancer is working smart, he aint gonna have so much costs "caused by me" directly . Because he needs no office (Internet, remember?) and he needs no fax machine and no secretery and no copier and not so many books unless his business justifies it ! Look, I didnt wanna be dragged into that argument the first place, I was only putting out that you guys are very "short fused" the way you response to things, and you and many others here, proved my point. ================================================================= To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
