On Saturday 18 May 2002 23:06, you wrote: > On Sat, May 18, 2002, Amir Tal wrote about "Re: official hebrew in Linux-IL mailing lists?": > > this might be a good place to tell you guys about something we are > > starting these days. > > > > we call it LinBrew, and the target is a native Hebrew distro. > > we planned on telling people about LinBrew in a few weeks, when we > > actually have something to show for, but maybe we should check for some > > feedbacks on such a project at this early stage. > > the project website : http://linbrew.sourceforge.net > > the forums : > > http://whatsup.org.il/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=index&viewca > >t=6 > > Tal, I hesitated if to answer this on the list, and I decided I will, but > please take it as my own opinion only and not representing anything or > anybody else. > > I have read your forum thoroughly. Your intentions, to create a Hebrew > Linux distribution, are admirable. You are talking on all the right > concepts: volunteering, good management and so on. It all looks very much > like the stuff I wrote almost 3 years ago in > http://www.ivrix.org.il/announcements/1.html > > But what is actually happening on your forum right now are big fights on > how to call that project [1], how the site will look, and things like that: > currently you don't have any real experts and haven't done any coding or > translation under that new "linbrew" framework. >
truth is we are kinda disappointed from the feedback we got so far. other them some 13 year old "guru's" (no offense) who actually wrote what you saw at the forum, there are only myself, Meir kriheli and 2-3 more serious people. we did think about asking for permition to try and use existing ivrix code, a course of action that will surly save us a LOT of work, but we are just finishing the list of features that we want to include, and we didn't get as far as asking so far. thanks for the offer, and this is something that most definitely can help us out. the hardest part if creating such a project, is the first steps. the point of mentioning this project on linux-il is to intrest developers in it, and to urge them to join it. one important thing i forgot to mention is the mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... to subscribe : [EMAIL PROTECTED] i welcome you all to attend this list (which has nothing much to show for so far, be aware) and help us out with new idea's, features, and contributing to the project. > The question I have for you is why go to all that trouble when you could > just take over the Ivrix framework? Nothing in Ivrix's current organization > is sacred: The website could be moved, a Hebrew list, nukeof, or whatever > could be spun off the ivrix-discuss mailing list and so on, and even the > name is open to discussion (but please see [1] before you criticize the > name Ivrix. I actually got good reviews on the name "Ivrix" before I > decided to use it). > For all I care you can even call yourself the "head of Ivrix" if this will > do any good of promoting Hebrew support - I am not a control freak, and I > hope you aren't either. i'm not, we are not doing this for the fame and glory ;) we are doing it because its about time that something like that will be done. i truly believe that a native Hebrew distro, well managed, developed and supported, can sky-rock in the Israeli market. i believe that if we want to see Linux in Israeli offices as primary desktop OS, this kind of project is the first stop turds that. > > What you'll get by taking over Ivrix, instead of starting from scratch, is > that you'll have on an existing list several dozens of real experts in the > field. While coders and people with free time are important (very > important, even) people with experience with bidi, standards, fonts, > hebrew-fication and so on is also important for guiding these coders to > avoid making huge mistakes. I don't see any such experts on your list yet, > and if you merge with Ivrix-discuss you'd have those experts in your group > immediately. Ivrix also has almost 3 years worth of mailing-list archives > on which you can find answers to most questions about Hebrew support you > will have. we will start digging into those mailing lists tonight. this is a good place to ask people previously involved in ivrix, if they want\can get involved again in such a project. this time a well managed one, with serious resources and man power. not that i am suggesting ivrix did not have all the above, but i think many will agree that the main thing ivrix lacked was managing and work hours. this kind of project will require a lot of hours invested, mainly by code writers, as well as designers, webmasters etc.. and i am not sure if students, that have a lot on their hands as it is already, will able to handle the pressure. i am just wondering if the same reasons that caused ivrix not to succeed, will also be the downfall of another similar project. i wish i had time time and money to invest in a commercial company that will have everything needed to finance a project like that. its not that looking for an investor did not cross our minds, but in order to go to an investor, you have to have something to shoe for first. i would like to hear some of your opinions about this matter. how far do you think we need to go before someone will be willing to invest the first dollar ? > > What Ivrix does sorely lack is people who will come forward to organize it > (I never wanted to organize it myself, I hoped someone else would do that > but that never happened) and do actual coding and translation. I invite you > guys to do that, instead of creating yet another stagnant Hebrew Linux > project. how far DID ivrix get ? (i am asking that without reading the ivrix website to much..) does it have an installer ? package manager ? anything at all, other then pre-compiled code ? > > [1] Just a comment on your choice of project names: The choice of name is > an important matter, and it is also important for the person choosing > it to be aware of the connotations the names might have, as the makers of > the Chevy Nova found out when they tried to market their car in South > America (apparently, No Va is Spanish for "doesn't go" :)). well, i think a name is something we should worry the least about at this stage. codenames can change. i think we should create something that can drive first, before deciding if we should call it "a car" or something else ;) > > The name "LinBrew" is strange for two reasons: first (as people already > mentioned on your forum), it is based on the English word "Hebrew". Why > English??? Second, the word "brew" has a connotation of something > relating to brewing, i.e., to beer (if you don't believe me, look it up in > m-w.com). So personally, I'd expect "LinBrew" to be a name of a > Linux-supporting beer company (something like "Open Cola" is to cola? :)), > not a Linux distribution. LinBrew is just something that came to mind at 3am, after (very) a long sleepless night. (LinBrew = Linux + Hebrew, in case someone didn't get the idea yet..) i am not saying that this is a good idea, or that this is definitely the name we are going to go for. its just a nickname for the project, so we can call it something else then "the project" at this point ;) > > The word "Livrit" might be ok, but you should be aware of the meaning > this word has in music. Open your Even-Shushan (note that there is no yod > after the lamed in that word) if you don't know what this word means. The > fact that this word has an additional meaning might be a pro, or a con, but > you must be at least aware of it and give it some thought. how about people subscribe to the mailing list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and post suggestions there as well ? along with all the other suggestions, we can manage a decent database of everything and make smarter choices that way) hoping to see many of you there, joining in... -- ----------------------------------------------- [root@localhost /]# make love make: stop : dont know how to make love [root@localhost /]#ls Amir Tal, ICQ : 15748705 http://www.whatsup.org.il ----------------------------------------------- ================================================================To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
