During RMS talk the feeling of love and help to your community was one of the main issues. Abir is right - stop to hate and start to love.
More of that since most of the users are using IE and most of the sites were done to get business profit, the open source (and especially Mozilla) users are no more than freaks that want to change the world. Blacklist will not hurt most of the companies at all. The only organizations that their appearance on Mozilla list might be in contradiction to their spirit are the Universities and other academic institutes. I don't care about government sites, since they were intended for "most of the people". The governmental sites would be a problem only of this would be the only way to get a specific service. As far as I can see there are two main ways to activate (where the second option can be further split): 1. The peaceful way that Abir suggested. And I totally support the idea of group of that should be called: "Proprietary to Open-Source technicians" (not Windows to Linux). Windows is fine. It has billion of users around the world. Do not fight them - just show alternatives. 2a. Activism against the other ideas. This has to do with a lot of hate. The black-lists and white lists, or lists at all are bad categorization. The lists would do nothing since most if the computer users want to use the software and do not care about the ideology. Does anyone buy software from companies because they donate to world fare founds, encourage sports or donate to education? 2b. Bad activism (and sometime illegal) against ideas. I include in this section partial group users that might do bad things just to make the media to hear them or to impose their opinions. Those users might crack into attack sites and do any other electronic punk. The punk was modern long ago and it has gone. Please do not do it - This is not what the GNU or Linux is about. Remember that GNU is mainly about offering alternatives; give the user the possibility to choose. Wrong free decision is better than totalitarian good decision. If MS offers users the ability to use technology that is cool. That is better than make users to be afraid of technology. I think the rest of ideas about the technical issues (as which standard impose what...) are irrelevant to the main idea. The standards are always imposed by the group that has maximum influence. It can be done by standard organizations, academic (so called) institutes, de-facto standards or any other way. My opinion is: explain me what are the choices and let me choose by myself. Good changes might last long time, we should just have the right spirit. In order to make huge mistakes no help is needed :-) Eddie > -----Original Message----- > From: Adir Abraham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 14:37 > To: Yotam Medini > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Israeli sites not supporting Linux browsers > > And how will that help us to achieve anything, if at all? "Black listing" > a site will most likely publish it (wait until your list is found in some > newspaper..), and will not help with reducing the problem. The opposite > is the truth - it may increase hateness, and mind-blocking. > > Do you think that the webmasters and the owners of the site will care? As > long > as it brings them 90% of the population (sad, but true), they won't > (necessarily) care much about your list. > > Moreover, you will have to notice this: > > 1) You will have to prove that for a specific site - ANY browser, from ANY > version which exists over there in Linux cannot see the site properly. > > 2) You will need to update your list whenever there's a change. > Nevertheless, when there's a change (to Linux) it can be changed back > sometime (into not supporting Linux, intentionally or not) for some > reason, vice versa. > > 3) Vicious owners can sue you for some kind of "hotzaat diba", just > because you "black list" them. Nobody said that you wouldn't win (about it > not being "hotzaat diba"), but I am not sure that you would want that > headache. > > 4) You won't contribute eliminating the problem. I believe that I have > already mentioned that. > > Instead, you can do the following: > > 1) Be nice, and politely tell them that their site doesn't support Linux > (actually, it's not true. It doesn't support the browers which *you* have > *checked*, with your specific software and architecture installed). > > 2) Suggest to help them to make their site compatible with Linux. If they > are not going to care about this, you will have to do that free of charge. > Once again - your responsibility. And I am not sure that you would like to > do that free of charge. > > 3) Here is an idea: Create a group of "Windows-to-Linux technicians", > who will help in converting (and improving), both for free and for money > (you > can even earn from it, if you do it the right way). Make this group > professional, and don't call them "missioners" or "revolutionists". Just > make a team which its purpose is to do that work, and that work only. > > 4) Don't black-list anybody. Nobody owes you anything and nobody has to > satisfy your OS you're working on (take this in a good spirit :). > > Love the problem.. don't hate it. > > Just something to think about. :) > > Adir. > > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Yotam Medini wrote: > > > > > Let's establish a 'black list' of Israeli sites not supporting > > Linux browsers. A specific category (dark-black) could be for sites > > whose main category is about computers. > > > > Let me suggest a candidate: > > > > www.ksp.co.il > > > > -- yotam > > > > > > ================================================================= > > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > ================================================================= > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ================================================================= To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
