On Sunday 08 June 2008, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 06, 2008, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Re: "Ubuntu is Dead" - Stay
Away":
> > > > 2.
> > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2008-June/001544.html
> > > > - this is the introduction that I sent to the Ubuntu-Women mailing
> > > > lists. I
> > >
> > > Er, Shlomi, your introduction to that mailing list was scary.
> > > Remember, the girls have their own section because they don't want to
> > > deal with us.
>
> Oh my god.
>
> Shlomi, like the Hebrew joke on "noach in 7 errors", it seems you've made
> every possible mistake in the same message. First, is your presumption that
> a mailing list specificially called "ubuntu-women" will want a *man* to
> subscribe.
Ubuntu-Women is about promoting women in Ubuntu and FOSS in general - it's not
for women exclusively.
> Second, the first thing you do on a list is offend some of the
> things that its subscribers believe in (women liberation, affirmative
> acction, linuxchix - at least I'm glad you used the phrase "feminist
> pedanticness" rather than the disgusting term "feminazis"!)
I don't have a problem with calling people "feminazis" or "nazis" or whatever.
I didn't dis LinuxChix too much, and I've talked with a few people who share
my opinions of them. I said I fully supported the women liberation movement.
I didn't mention "affirmative action" anywhere, just said that I hated
government intervention in trying to promote women.
>
> Third, believe me, when you intruduce yourself as having a mental illness
> (or philosophical mood, or whatever you call it)
It is a mental illness. I said it's a Hypomania.
> and "curly black hair
> which expands radially" (?)
I was describing myself.
> and as someone who "got banned from LinuxChix"
> - this can be understood as just one of two things - either your are
> creepy, or you're trying to appear creepy (i.e., a troll). Neither of these
> things are welcome on any mailing list, not just this one.
No, you're wrong.
>
> Fourth, you storm into a mailing list thinking that you're its saviour,
> and know how to solve all its problems. This thinking isn't welcome on any
> mailing list, and certainly not when you're a man on a woman's mailing
> list.
I didn't do that - I just given my thoughts on how to best promote women in
FOSS.
>
> Fifth, you go into a mailing list with a specific technical goal, and
> start talking about general issues like "Life vs. Death". That is bound
> to annoy people.
I tried to set the philosophical background.
>
> If you had made just one of these mistakes, I am guessing you'd be
> forgiven. But making them all at once???
Again, you get an "F" in applied logic.
But maybe you're right.
>
> > No. the Ubuntu-women mailing list is meant to promote Women in Linux.
> > It's not Regardless of that, my unsubscription and then the IRC ping-pong
> > and "I won't take any responsibility" attitude and then closing the bug
> > was not the proper way to deal with this. See for example:
>
> Shlomi, isn't it obvious to you that the way that Ubuntu's mailing lists
> and IRC channels are run have almost *NOTHING* to do with the quality of
> the OS they produce?
Maybe it doesn't. But I heard too many horror stories about Ubuntu Hardy.
Open-source is all about community. As I said, Ubuntu is now:
1. Full of hubris and self-righteousness.
2. Hostlie to potential contributors.
3. Too fragmented, over-specialised and tries to stays on-topic.
4. No one takes responsiblity for any of their problems.
5. Has too much red-tape.
6. Over-hyped and has too much irrational zealtory.
All of this spell doom for them.
>
> If Microsoft Windows's forum had been very friendly, would you switch to
> that OS instead?
No, because the Mandriva community is healthy and I appreciate the freedom
given in Mandriva. I may also consider FreeBSD, CentOS, Debian, MEPIS, etc.
as appropriate, but certainly not Ubuntu. Until at least Ubuntu gets their
cat together and improve.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Funny Anti-Terrorism Story - http://xrl.us/bjn7t
The bad thing about hardware is that it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.
The good thing about software is that it's consistent: it always does not
work, and it always does not work in exactly the same way.
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